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[sparklyman]

Hi All,
I've registered here out of shear desperation - I need professional help (Telecoms, not Physciatric.....although thats quite close)

Switch to TalkTalk back in June - nothing but problems since Day 1......no progress at all with intermittant connectivity.

I've spoken with, and written to them virtually everyday for the last 3 months, but their suppot organisation seems completely disjointed and nobody knows whats happening or who's psoken to who etc. OFCOM are now involved and have advised they will be intervening on 18th Oct if talktalk have failed to resolve the fault by that date.

However, the though of another long term process (months), whilst OFCOM investigate has caused me to try & find a solution myself. I'm not 100% conversant with ADSL etc, so hoping there are professionals on this forum who can help me. Not sure how long my connection will last so will try and get this across quickly.

Connection keeps on dropping, DLINK DSL2680 router loses Internet connection very frequently, can be every few minutes at times. ADSL light remains active sometimes, sometimes also drops out, then flashes as router syncs. ADSL light usually comes back on steady, but Internet light remains red. Usually, after this happens, It will not re-connect unless I cycle router power. If the cycle restores Internet connection (doesn't always work), then connection seems to last for a few minutes then drops out again - ADSL remains lit.

Have had repalcement router (3 actually) from talktalk - fault remains.

talktalk did a line test last week (all equipment disconnected) - called back and advised "Earth fault on line - BT Openreach issue - fault logged, about 5 days to clear). Spoke to talktalk on friday - no record of that test or telephone call () - no fault logged with BT ? They did another test - advised no fault on line ? I told them it's intemittant, they said there test disprove a line fault as the issue - they acknowlefge their montoring shows frequent line drops, sometimes as many as 50 per hour (thats what it's like at times)

talktalk's bottom line is they want to send in CUBE engineer (?) at a cost of £50 - if router found faulty, they MAY replace at their discretion (apparantly supplied FREE as part of the contract, so not their equipment - it's my equipment so I'm liable for the engineers £50 charge to prove it's faulty (can't see it myself).

Anyway. have no confidence with the "engineers" I've spoken to at talktalk - they seem to be clutching at straws each time I call....and how many times have I been asked if the router is plugged into a filter etc etc.

I have a single NTE5 socket in the house, I'm on Filter No. 5, been plugged into the test socket for the last 3 months. One engineer talked me through changing my filter modulation from "auto-Sync" to D.GMT - seemed to work for a day, then back to problems again.

I have my old Orange livebox router - have tried that, but it doesn't seem to Sync at all (I have used my talktalk username & password, which was validated and accepted on the Invertel 192.168.1.1 screen)

Can anybody help me out PLEASE

Thanks for your time

[waltergmw]

Hi Sparklyman & welcome,

To start a few basics. Do you know if you are on a fully unbundled service ? Try BT speedtest and report back.
If answer is No try 17070 option 2 quiet line test and option 1 ringback test.

Which exchange are you on ?

Do you hear any crackles or other noise on the line when the fault is present ?

Kind regards,
Walter

[jeffbb]

Hi
Can you post your Router statistics so that we can start trouble shooting .

If possible try to set up and run routerstats 
Your router is not listed but you might get RS light to run .RS is a very good trouble shooting tool.
Regards Jeff

[sparklyman]

Hi Walter & Jeff,

Many thanks for taking the time out to help - bear with me as I'm not up to speed with Telecoms.

I'm not sure what package I have from TalkTalk - line rental, Broadband "essentials" package. BT speedtest I'lllook for and check back after this message.

The Phone line is whisper quiet, no pops etc. I dialled 17070 and I have a voice advising "This circuit is designed as" followed by my telephone number - I don't get any options ?

Router stats ? I have this from the DSL Summary screen from the 192.168.1.1 address - hope this is what you're looking for ? I'll run the routerstats after this message and report back. My Exchange is Camborne (I assume ?)

I've noticed today that when I loose connection the ADSL light starts flashing and the Internet light dissapears completely. When ADSL stabilises, Internet is red, then turns green after 5-10 seconds (but not always).

REALLY slow connection today. To open this forum page took around 2 minutes.


DSL Stats from D-Link 192.168.1.1 page - the ADSL mode was "Auto-up sync" - TalkTalk advised to change to G.DMT around 6 weeks ago;

System Uptime        23:30:49
            
Modem DSL(Sync) uptime        0:32:42
            
ADSL Mode        G.DMT
            
Interleaving        On
            
DSL Line Speed      
up    256 kbps
      
down    256 kbps
            
Line Attenuation      
up    10.0
      
down    19.0
            
SN Margin      
up    29.0
      
down    47.5
            
Total Errors Seconds        0

Back with more info soon

Thanks

[sparklyman]

OK - BT Speedtest.......not sure if I read this correctly, but I use the username "speedtest@speedtest_domain" with a blank password field on my router ? The DSL "quickstart" page (where you enter username/password) will not accept a blank password box (states only 1-32 alphanumeric characters allowed) ..... ?

Routerstats LITE - installed, with User defined router with URL http://192.168.1.1/Summary_DSL.html - this is the DSL(Sync) summary page of my router. There is an advanced button, which takes you into the D-Link pages proper - far more parameters, buttons, menus etc....there is a statistics page http://192.168.1.1/statsifcwan.html - should I use that URL ?

I've tried both and started the application - Noise margin & connection speed graphs are straight lines at "0db) ?

Apologies for my ignorance - I'm a quick learner so please bear with me

[Oranged]

Well Camborne has Talk Talk ADSL2+ LLU which on your attenuation should give you a connection speed of around 19000kbps.

Talk Talk Essentials is I believe a full LLU package so you aren't renting a BT line.

From the stats that you've posted, my guess is that Talk Talk have not carried out the provision correctly.

The Noise Margin data is what is restricting the current connection and if those stats were taken using the test socket then almost certainly it's a problem at the exchange.

Can you revert to ADSL2+ connection using the test socket and post the stats for that please ?

[sparklyman]

Hi Oranged,

This would be the ADSL modulation change from G.DMT to ADLS2+ ?  I will do & post stats - I guess this will affect the Routerstats now running?

Jeff - I've have now found the source codes and have manged to Define in Routerstats...graphs are now plotting.

All very complicated, but getting the hang of it (I think) - here are new stats;

System Uptime        24:53:34
            
Modem DSL(Sync) uptime        0:00:15
            
ADSL Mode        ADSL2 PLUS
            
Interleaving        On
            
DSL Line Speed      
up    251 kbps
      
down    263 kbps
            
Line Attenuation      
up    10.3
      
down    18.0
            
SN Margin      
up    31.3
      
down    42.9

Many thanks

[Oranged]

Something is very wrong with your connection......as you have already correctly guessed 

ADSL2+ attenuation is usually 3dB or 4 dB more than the ADSL attenuation but yours is less, only just but it's less.

Just to be absolutely certain please confirm that the router is plugged into the test socket with a filter and no plug-in telephone extension lead is being used between the socket and the router and other than a telephone no other telephony device is using the phone line (eg burglar/fire alarm or Sky box)

[sevenlayermuddle]

I've tried both and started the application - Noise margin & connection speed graphs are straight lines at "0db) ?

I suspect that just means you've not got RS working quite right yet, but it may not matter for the time being because the interesting stats are already evident from your previous post...

Quote from: sparklyman on Today at 03:24:55 PM

DSL Line Speed     
up    251 kbps
     
down    263 kbps
           
Line Attenuation     
up    10.3
     
down    18.0
   
SN Margin     
up    29.0
     
down    47.5

That strongly suggests that talk talk have either put you on a fixed rate service, or that your downstream SNR is fluctuating massively.

One other thing you should try (as well as getting back onto TT and asking them for their opinion why you're only getting 256k) is as follows....

1) Manually display the router stats, as in your earlier post (no need to use RS, though you can if you want), and note the SN Margin 'down'  and 'attenuation' figures.

2) Now lift a phone of hook (no need to make a call).  IS your DSL still connected?  If so, look at the SNR 'Down' , and 'attenuation' figure again, has either of them changed a lot with the phone off-hook?

If at (2) the line disconnects, or the the downstream SNR margin drops (or attenuation rises) massively when you lift a phone off-hook, you likely have a high-resistance fault on the line.

[sparklyman]

Oranged - all confirmed. Single NTE5 in premises, no extension sockets or lead, Filter plugged into NTE5 test socket (currently Fifth Filter I've tried to no avail), DSL2680 Router & telephone base station connected with single wireless handset, additional wireless handset upstairs.......thats it.

Sevenlayermuddle - have tried your suggestion - DSL remains connected, no significant change to either Down Att. or Margin

I've given up talking to talktalk, if I call them they ask me if the router is plugged in and switched on................if I told them I only have a 256kbps connection, they'd no doubt reply "No sir, you have our essentials package with no boosts....would you like to add boosts to your package ?"  I'm unable to talk to people who have the resident knowledge (or ability) to deal with this issue......they are now telling me they can't test the router online, they have to send a CUBE engineer around to test the router - if it's faulty there will be a charge of £50. Last time I entertained the thought of an engineers visit, I'm sure I was told I MUST accept the charge, prior to an appointment being made.If I wasn't prepared to accept the charge, then no visit would be scheduled ? Sure I was also told that the £50 would be levied if no fault found (somebody has to pay for the visit was the remark made) AND talktalk wouldn't ask BT to check for a line fault as the cost to TalkTalk was £130 - first step of the process is to schedule a CUBE engineers visit. They keep on insisting it's a wiring fault in the premises......7 trouble free years with Orange, then a sudden fault when switched to TalkTalk has me,  naturally, very sceptical at the likelihood of this. I'm no expert, but 5x filters and 3x routers later, I'm leaning towards a line or exchange fault ?  Although I note that the NTE5 is wired with internal 3-pair cable, whiclt the incoming to the property is DW10 from the DP....must be a junction box inside somewhere....but the chances of this suddenly throwing up a fault ?  Could this give the router stats observed ? Maybe I can trace the route myself and check if the symptoms could be attributed to such

I'll await your experienced, and very valued responses.....seems I might be finaly making progress with this issue, thanks to all of your inputs

Thanks guys

[Oranged]

If the cabling has not been changed since you were with Orange then for the moment I wouldn't attribute faults to that area.

The main change has been from an Orange-branded BT IPStream connection to a Talk Talk ADSL2+ LLU one.

I am presuming that Orange did not have LLU available in Camborne exchange so that means you had a BT G.DMT up to 8Mb IPStream connection supplied by Orange.

The change from BT IPStream to Talk Talk LLU is a significant one and more than likely is the cause of your problems as it uses Talk Talk equipment.

Unfortunately Talk Talk do not have a good reputation in the technical/customer service depts.

Qube are the engineering sub-contractors employed by Talk Talk >>>> http://www.talktalk.co.uk/members/working-with-qube-to-optimize-your-service.html and also http://qubegb.com/

[sevenlayermuddle]

I've given up talking to talktalk, if I call them they ask me if the router is plugged in and switched on................if I told them I only have a 256kbps connection, they'd no doubt reply "No sir, you have our essentials package with no boosts....would you like to add boosts to your package ?"  I'm unable to talk to people who have the resident knowledge (or ability) to deal with this issue......they are now telling me they can't test the router online, they have to send a CUBE engineer around to test the router - if it's faulty there will be a charge of £50.

If it's any consolation, demon are as bad... they once told me they'd not investigate my fault until I took the router back to the shop I'd bought it from, and asked them to test it.  A mite daft, since I'd bought it on amazon.  Demon did however respond well to a formal written complaint, most companies have complains procedures that get the attention of somebody higher up the food chain.  Since you've got Ofcom involved, I guess you've probably done likewise?

Meanwhile, I'm at a loss to explain your sync rate of 263k.  With an attenuation 18dB, it's just plain ridiculous.  The margin of 27dB is also ridiculous around 6-9db is normal (but at least it is consistently ridiculous with your poor speed).  I wonder if they may have capped your line, in an attempt to stabilise it?

Thoughts, anybody?

PS:  I see my reply is 'colliding' with Oranged, but I don't think we contradict so I'll post 

[sparklyman]

..here at the first captures if they will help - intial drop-out is when ~I changed from G.DMT to ADSL2+ modulation. Second drop out is a typical loss of connection (the fault). Router ADSL light flashes, then steady, Internet light Red, then Green - it reconnected itself without the need to cycle power.

Since switching to ADSL2+ this afternoon, frequency of drop-outs has decreased a lot.....seems to be a lot more frequent though during the evenings, so maybe just coincidence - too early to say.

Internet is still VERY slow..

Now on the phone to TT regarding 256kbps connection, YES, router is plugged into a filter (told you !)- chap is unable to comment on 256 speed, escalating to a technician...still on hold 10 mins on.....more later (hopefully)

Thanks All

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[burakkucat]

b*cat holds up his left paw to disclose that he has been using TalkTalk as his CP since mid 2007 with absolutely no problems. However my aim is to be totally objective and unbiased.

It is well known that the TalkTalk telephone "support" just isn't. It is not worth the time nor effort. However, the on-line support forum does provide appropriate support and advice. One may ask how can one use it if the broadband service is poor to non-existent . . . The answer is to do a spot of lateral thinking and make use of Internet access at some public place -- a Library, for example -- or ask for help from family or neighbours.

From your comment about the 17070 service just announcing "This circuit is defined as . . . ", without presenting you with a menu, tells me that your line has been fully unbundled. That is to say your line is fully LLU'd.

[Oranged]

Just a thought regarding my comments on Talk Talk customer service.....are you registered on :-

http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/

because that does have a good reputation for solving problems.

It's worth a try because quite honestly I don't believe we can suggest anything which will solve this problem.

I think the provisioning of LLU ADSL2+ on your line has not been completed correctly so only Talk Talk is able to resolve the fault.