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[biggus_richus]

Ever since we moved into our current home, whenever the phone rings, it does so with a continuous ring, rather than the usual ring-ring. At the same time all ADSL connections are dropped. We've put up with it for a while, and while tolerable, something's clearly wrong and I'd like to fix it.

The drop wire enters the property above our front door into a block terminal - from there, there's a wire going through two internal walls to the NTE5 master and there's another wire going back outside and up to an upstairs extension. The extension socket is flush mounted - it's not a generic DIY surface-mounted self-install kit.

Both sockets have dangly micro-filters. Not really sure where to start with this - any help greatly appreciated.

[roseway]

Hi and welcome,

It appears that you have star wiring, which isn't necessarily bad, but makes diagnosis a bit more difficult.

Firstly, is there any audible noise on the phone (hissing or crackling)? If so, you should report it as a voice fault to whoever you pay your telephone rental to.

Can you confirm that phones in both sockets work normally, and that the ADSL connection drops whenever there's an incoming phone call, regardless of which phones are plugged in? Can you also try calling your number from a mobile when no phones are plugged in, just to make sure that the phones aren't the problem. Also, remove one of the dangly filters and try calling in, then swap them over and try again, or use a different filter altogether, to eliminate the filters as the cause.

Assuming that none of the above stops the disconnections from occurring, then it's most probable that you have a line fault, and should report it to your ISP.

[burakkucat]

The drop wire enters the property above our front door into a block terminal - from there, there's a wire going through two internal walls to the NTE5 master and there's another wire going back outside and up to an upstairs extension.

I find your sentence, above, just a little bit ambiguous. As we operate on absolute precision, I would ask you to please clarify the following:

(1) Is the upstairs extension wired from the NTE5/A?
(2) Is the upstairs extension wired from the the junction box just inside your front door?

I suspect that Eric has assumed the latter.

Depending upon your answer, there could be other tests you should perform.

[biggus_richus]

Thanks for your replies, and apologies for ambiguity. Eric has assumed correctly, the upstairs extension is wired from the junction box.

Bit more info, for what it's worth; the upstairs extension has no phone connected, just a microfilter and ADSL router. The master has microfilter and DECT phone connected.

Hopefully, I'll get round to running some tests at the weekend.

[burakkucat]

Now that is clarified, we would like you to take a close look at the NTE5/A by unscrewing the lower-half front plate (part of your domain) and checking if there are any wires connected to the IDCs on its rear. If so, please note the wire colour and the IDC number.

Also carefully remove the cover from the junction box and note (1) cables (2) wire colours (3) interconnections. If that will be too difficult to describe by text, would you be able to take a clear photograph of the junction box's internals, please?

Finally, perform a similar examination on the upstairs extension socket, noting wire colours and IDCs to which they are connected.

[biggus_richus]

Apologies for taking so long to get on to this.

NTE5/A
Green - 3
Brown - 3
Orange - A
Blue - B

Junction box
All connections in the junction box are to the screw down A/B connectors. the IDC connectors are not used.
Incoming main
Orange - A
White - B
Others - not connected

To NTE5
Orange - A
Blue - B
Green - not connected
Brown - not connected

To Extension
White/Blue - A
Blue - B
Orange - not connected
Orange/White - not connected

Extension
Blue - 2
Orange - 3
Blue/White - 5
Orange/White - not connected

On the back of the extension socket was a large yellow capacitor - a ring capacitor? I didn't expect to see that, could the socket itself be the problem?

[burakkucat]

Having drawn out the schematic diagram of your sockets and wiring, it does seem to be somewhat abnormal -- even for a pre-broadband, telephony-only star configuration.

There are two changes that I would first make, both very simple.

1) Remove the EU lower front half panel of the NTE5/A and disconnect both of the green and the brown wires from IDC3. You should now just have the NTE5/A fed to the A & B terminals (the OR side) by the orange and blue wires respectively (of that four core cable). Tuck the green and brown wires neatly into the back of the box, ensuring that they do not come into contact with anything else.

2) At the extension socket, disconnect the orange/white-stripe wire from IDC3. Loosely twist the orange/white-stripe and white/orange-strip wires together (they are the two legs of the "orange pair") and tuck them into the back of the box. Same proviso, as above, regarding avoidance of accidental contact to anything else.

With those two changes, you are now in a classic star configuration with each branch -- to the NTE5/A and the extension -- terminated with a capacitor and resistor in series. (Look closely at the extension socket and you should also see a resistor on the PCB.) Now wait for an incoming call. Hopefully you should now hear the classic UK "ringing" cadences. Please report back with the result.

[biggus_richus]

I've disconnected those wires - no change I'm afraid.

[burakkucat]

In that case, you should make a fault report. At this point, I am a little undecided as to whether you should report a telephony fault or a broadband fault.

If your broadband modem/router is disconnected, do you still have an abnormal "ring" for incoming telephone calls? If yes, then I would be inclined to report it as a telephony (voice line) fault. If no, then I would suggest reporting it as a broadband fault.

It is clear that you need the services of a competent wireman/wirewoman to rationalise the star wiring.

Please have a think about where would be the best location for your modem/router and for your DECT base station before you have an engineering visit. If you are happy with them in their current locations -- and I approve of your idea in keeping the DECT base station away from the modem/router -- then, ideally, the upstairs extension should be replaced with an NTE5/A, a SSFP fitted to it (doing away with the dangly microfilter) and the current downstairs NTE5/A should be replaced with an appropriate extension socket, fed from the filtered side of the upstairs SSFP.

So that we have the clear picture, from whom do you purchase your (1) telephony service (2) broadband service?

Would other Wizards like to comment, please?

[biggus_richus]

BT provide my telephony, O2 my broadband.

With everything disconnected from the extension, and just a phone plugged in at the master, the abnormal ring persists, both with and without a microfilter on the phone connection.

The location of the master socket is plain weird - it's on an internal wall and the cable from the junction box has to go through three internal walls. I guess it was [one of] the previous owner's choice.

The DECT base station should stay downstairs. The only reason the router is upstairs is because that's where the PC is; technically the router could go downstairs as well and the PC could connect wirelessly, although I would prefer a wired connection.

I didn't think extension sockets had ring capacitors. Is this only in the case when they are wired as an extension to the NTE5?

[sevenlayermuddle]

I didn't think extension sockets had ring capacitors. Is this only in the case when they are wired as an extension to the NTE5?

I rather suspect that extension socket may actually be another 'master', they are often fitted by mistake when a secondary is all that's required.  It does sound like your system may have a slightly chequered history, installed either by a DIY-er, or (just as likely) by a builder of dubious competence.

It's technically incorrect to have two masters, so would be better replaced with a normal extension socket but I don't actually think that's responsible for your problems.

From your description of the wiring, the main drawback is that the orange wire from pin 3 of the extension will be capacitively coupled to one of the line pair, having the effect of a 'ring' wire, degrading your ADSL signal just as if it were connected at the master.  But the difference that degradation would be there all the time, it doesn't explain problems that only co-incide with incoming calls.

I'd actually be suspicious of the phone itself.  Have you another phone you could try (or have you already done that)?  You could also try unplugging the phone and then dialling in from your mobile, to see if the ADSL connection still drops during ring tone...

[biggus_richus]

I don't currently have a spare phone to try with, but the ADSL still drops out when I call from my mobile with the phone unplugged.

I don't have an IDC tool, so if I were to disconnect the wires at the extension socket, I wouldn't be able to put them back in. The extension is wired via screw down terminals in the junction box - I take it I'm not supposed to fiddle with that though?

[sevenlayermuddle]

but the ADSL still drops out when I call from my mobile with the phone unplugged.

In that case, I'm inclined to concur with B'Cat that a BT fault report may be the next step.  Disconnecting that orange wire at the extension should be safe enough, and may improved your DSL speed a little but I don't think it'll solve the problem you are having, so you may as well leave it alone for the time being.

My worry is that a visiting BT engineer may not be happy with the state of your wiring, and may try to use that as justification for a chargeable visit.   I'm worried in particular that you have an NTE/5 yet the extension wiring has been taken off from a junction box on the BT side of the NTE/5.   We know that's not your own fault, but I would have thought it may be technically 'illegal' as far as BT are concerned... 

I wonder.... can anybody else comment on the possibility of Biggus being penalised if BT get involved, or suggest a strategy to minimize that risk?

[burakkucat]

I wonder.... can anybody else comment on the possibility of Biggus being penalised if BT get involved, or suggest a strategy to minimize that risk?

I guess it all depends upon the mood of the engineer, when she/he arrives. Clearly, though, the telephony service is not operating within specification. So I would expect that given (1) bacon sandwiches (2) chocolate biscuits (3) custard cream biscuits (4) mugs of tea or coffee a competent OR network engineer would just resolve the wiring issue as part of the fault resolution.

Before making a fault report and requesting an OR engineering visit, please obtain (a quick loan by from a neighbour) a basic wired telephone and connect it to the test socket behind the lower front panel of the NTE5/A. Make a call home from your mobile phone. If the "ring" is still abnormal, go ahead and make the fault report.