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[Bald_Eagle1]

no "shiners" on tie-pairs in PCP, etc, etc. 

That's an interesting phrase.

For my/our curiosity, what are "shiners" on tie-pairs in PCP?

[Black Sheep]

It's when the actual conductor (CU or Ali) is actually showing.

In non-Quante/Krone PCP's, the wires tend to be in bunches of 10 pairs. There are anomolies to this, such as 'shelf' PCP's and 200pr strips, but usually they will be in 10pr bunches.

We get audited on whether the 'bunches' we are working on, have any 'Shiny's' on show. If there are any, it's a 10-point 'Critical Defect' and Openreach's equivalent of the Gestapo, slide out from under their rocks and try and get you sacked.

These wires are on average 0.5mm wide, you need eyes like the proverbial toilet-rat to see the 'Shiny's'. Coupled with that is the fact that the Ali cables insulation automatically peels back a few millimetres when we are re-siting the 'Bunch' back into its holding lug. You can't bl00dy win !!!

This is a prime example of where OR have got it completely and utterly wrong.

[kitz]

Hi Nookie.

All of the contributors to this particular thread who replied to the OP are possibly some of the most knowledgeable in the UK when it comes to adsl and telephony, many of them being specialists in particular areas.

We are actually a friendly forum. Whilst on occasions and when justified, harsh words may be said against the corporates such as BT/SPs etc, one thing that is frowned upon is when it gets personal against an individual.
Im sure the BT guys have seen their fair share of slating off of BT engineers, but each of them have also gained a great deal of respect on this particular forum because of what they do and their knowledge that they share to assist members of the public.  They also know that if someone does have a go at BT - then it doesn't mean them personally.

Im quite sure that all corporates have their share of bad workers but have many more who are very good at what they do.  By all means feel free to contribute to the forums, the 'techies' love sharing knowledge and swapping information with each other... the benefit is that we all learn something... consumers and techs alike.  The sharing of knowledge is what makes this particular forum so successful because we do have members who have vast experience in many different areas.  It would be wonderful if you cared to join us and perhaps impair some of your own experiences, the benefit of such could be two-fold as it could earn respect for both you personally and prove to the general public that not all Kelly employees should be "tarred with the same brush".

Welcome to the forum.

[Nookie]

Hi Nookie.

All of the contributors to this particular thread who replied to the OP are possibly some of the most knowledgeable in the UK when it comes to adsl and telephony, many of them being specialists in particular areas.

We are actually a friendly forum. Whilst on occasions and when justified, harsh words may be said against the corporates such as BT/SPs etc, one thing that is frowned upon is when it gets personal against an individual.
Im sure the BT guys have seen their fair share of slating off of BT engineers, but each of them have also gained a great deal of respect on this particular forum because of what they do and their knowledge that they share to assist members of the public.  They also know that if someone does have a go at BT - then it doesn't mean them personally.

Im quite sure that all corporates have their share of bad workers but have many more who are very good at what they do.  By all means feel free to contribute to the forums, the 'techies' love sharing knowledge and swapping information with each other... the benefit is that we all learn something... consumers and techs alike.  The sharing of knowledge is what makes this particular forum so successful because we do have members who have vast experience in many different areas.  It would be wonderful if you cared to join us and perhaps impair some of your own experiences, the benefit of such could be two-fold as it could earn respect for both you personally and prove to the general public that not all Kelly employees should be "tarred with the same brush".

Welcome to the forum.

Fair enough, and being the new boy I always knew it would be on me to justify myself. But there is slating and there is "slating". I'm not the sensitive type, but this guy was literally spitting on a whole group - he even whent out of his way to do a nice virtual interpretation of it (check his post). I don't know about you, but I find that very offensive. But perhaps he thought a kelly engineer wouldn't be able to read, let alone have the intelligence and aptitude to pull him up on his remarks.

Black Sheep manged to show restraint and demonstrate dignified adult behavior (and clearly has a high level of knowledge when it comes to the subject at hand - nice response on the PCP, "shiners" question, by the way), but I am disappointed that this rizla guy wasn't pulled in check by an admin.

[kitz]

>> being the new boy I always knew it would be on me to justify myself

I'm sorry you feel that way,  you were welcomed to the forum.
Respect is given to members new and old.

>> Black Sheep manged to show restraint and demonstrate dignified adult behavior.

Black Sheep (and others)  take a lot of stick sometimes by OPs who perhaps dont know who he/they works for (not just on these forums),  a typical response could perhaps be something like.. 'hey we are not all bad - some of us do care and try our best'.  The OP at this point sometimes backs down..  however, if the OP then made it personal you would see an entirely different response.


>> but this guy was literally spitting on a whole group

As previously mentioned, we take a different stance on the slating of a corporation, than we do of a personal individual.  Like it or not that's kind of the norm for the Internet.  You only have to look at some of the comments against the likes of BT, ISPs, PC World etc. There's probably millions of comments about BT or PCWorld being tossers, but that doesn't mean to say that each and everyone of their employees are, and I'm sure that everyone knows that. Its the way of the world that if someone has received bad service from a corporate company, then said person will slate them on the Internet - perhaps even set up a site "myISPsucks.com .   Even I've personal & untrue comments thrown at me, just because I was part of a group who tried to help customers. 

If an OP was getting repetitive about a corporate and slating them off time after time, then you'd also likely see a different response, and not just by admin

>>  I am disappointed that this rizla guy wasn't pulled in check by an admin

There was no personal attack by rizla to any person or individual.  Unfortunately you seem to have taken it personally.


Here we judge people by their actions and not by who they work for - just as you were welcomed as an individual person...  I'm pretty sure that I can say with a good degree of confidence, that most of the members wont care who you work for and you will be treated as an individual, judged only on your own actions.

[Black Sheep]

'Black Sheep (and others)  take a lot of stick sometimes by OPs who perhaps dont know who he/they works for (not just on these forums),  a typical response could perhaps be something like.. 'hey we are not all bad - some of us do care and try our best'.  The OP at this point sometimes backs down.. however, if the OP then made it personal you would see an entirely different response.'

  Are you saying I can sometimes be 'Mr Angry', Kitz ?? Ha ha ... you'd be right. 

Nookie ..... thank you for your comments bud. My knowledge has been mostly accrued after working for BT, mainly as a multi-skilled engineer with Broadband/FTTC/REIN additional skills, for coming up 25yrs. A helluva lot of my BB knowledge has been gained from this forum, as the BT course is abysmal to say the least. Well, it was back when it first began, it may have improved now but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Where I live and work (North West mainly/Cumbria sometimes), our Contractor of choice appears to be 'Quinns'. My very good friend who I've personally known for over 25 yrs is the area manager. We meet every Saturday for a good few jars, and inevitably work pops up in the convo from time-to-time.
Believe me when I say, we need Contractors. We wouldn't be able to meet our Service Level Guarantees (SLG's) without you guys. Add the atrocious weather we've had this year into the mix, and as you probably know, our workstacks have been at their 3rd ever highest levels !!!! Without you guys, we'd go under. So you are doing sterling work out there, be sure of that.

I also more than understand your frustrations, when somebody passes comment about ones employers and their employees, as if they're all cut from the same cloth. It's your mission (should you choose to accept it Jim ?), to make this type of person see things differently. They've obviously has a poor experience from a 'Kellys' lad, and wrongly, have decided you're all incompetent. I know better, unfortunately he/they dont as they can only go off their own experiences.

That said, as with OR, there are a good few poor contractors out there. I know this, as I get it from the horses mouth so to speak. What I do know with 'Quinns' is, the actual individuals 'contact' is very, very short-lived if a) They do not perform to a good level consistently, and b) If their audit checks fail. 'Quinns' management do not want to be associated with tardy workmanship, and will get rid of the rotten apples very quickly.

I don't know how 'Kelly's' operate on this front, but would be surprised if it's greatly different ??

Welcome to the forum mate, and don't be put off by negative comments, life's too short and you may 'bite' and have to leave the site in fear of your life. Ha ha ...... just reliving a previous life of mine. 

 

[kitz]

>>>  The OP at this point sometimes backs down.. however, if the OP then made it personal you would see an entirely different response.'

  Are you saying I can sometimes be 'Mr Angry', Kitz ?? Ha ha ... you'd be right. 

I really meant that at that point one of the mods would likely step in...  but yep..  I had a wry smile on my face when I typed that, because I  know full well  that you are well capable of sticking in your own 2p   

[Black Sheep]

Aha, another prime example of interpretation of the written word. Now you've pointed out you were referring to 'The mods' involvement, it does indeed read differently.

PS .... only 2p ?? .... I like to think I can give at least 13p worth !!!

[kitz]

Indeed...  to both statements 

[Black Sheep]

Balance has been restored to the Universe.

[burakkucat]

I think I ought to post something for Mr Nookie's attention . . .

Welcome to the Kitz forum. 

Assuming you intend to remain a contributing member, perhaps I should admit to being one who has used the phrase "Kelly's Cowboys" in the past. I am prepared to delete that phrase from my repertoire, after reading your recent posts.

Would you be willing to make a post to "Introductions" and tell us something about what Kelly Communications do in their general line of business, along with your personal experience as one of their employees?

As you know, us felice domesticus are naturally curious. 

[Black Sheep]

Whilst pondering on Mr Nookies return, I can fill in a lit bit of what the contractors do.
They were initially taken on to cover installation work only, but this has now recently been revised and they will be doing MI (Managed Install FTTC/P) work as well.
Rumour has it, and I do believe this to be true, that the contractors and the ex-MOD lads will actually be responsible for all MI work, whilst we are left to carry on with the other work.