Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: Floydoid on October 18, 2007, 09:32:11 AM
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I'd like to check my line stats, not for any reason other than I've never done it before, and I thought it might be something useful to do so I can hopefully learn a bit more about ADSL technology. So I was wondering if you guys and girls would be able to walk me through the procedure, and maybe even offer some hints and tweaks.
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Your first port of call should be http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.htm which tells you how to get the stats for many popular modems and routers. If yours isn't on the list then if you let us know what it is we might be able to help. Tweaks will depend on what you're using too.
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I'm using the good old speedtouch 330... here's my stats:
ReceiveAttenuation_dB= 25
ReceiveMargin_dB= 19
SendAttenuation_dB= 15
SendMargin_dB= 16
I haven't a clue what those mean, but am willing to learn... now is there anything else you need to know?
[BTW Kitz, on the speedtouch page that you link to, there is no mention of Dr Speedtouch... unless I'm missing something... I found it a bit confusing. The direct link to the file works though.]
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Explanations of what these figures relate to are on this page (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm) - there's a wealth of information about ADSL on this site.
The best bit is, that all of it is presented in a form that is generally understandable by non-techies, which is the beauty of Kitz's style. And, as far as I can tell, everything is accurate too, so you won't be fed any duff information either :)
So if you're willing to learn you could do worse than spend some time reading the ADSL Section (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsl.htm) of kitz.co.uk :)
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If a ST330 is the one after the original blue squashed thing (frog or stingray it got called IIRC) then your stats are quite similar to the way mine were - I have 23dB "ReceiveAttenuation" and 13dB "SendAttenuation" (neither have change except on Be but they tested differently).
Your margins aren't so good but then I don't know what speed you sync at as the margins will go down as the speed goes up.
I sync at 20Mbps with a margin of 9dB. Your line can go considerably faster than the old froggie could manage - with the right provider and if your exchange is enabled by them.
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Actually it's a little grey froggie... so what now?
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Well what are you trying to achieve? More knowledge or are you unhappy with your current speeds?
You won't learn much from a USB modem anyway IMHO as I'm unaware of anyone who makes them now as they were all USB v1.0/1.1 which means they can't really handle much more than 10Mbps.
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Oh forget it, seems I'm wasting everyone's time.
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Hey, you're not wasting our time. I think that the point is that USB modems don't give a lot of useful information. To get a real understanding of what's going on, we would need to know the connection speed (up and down) as well as the attenuation and margin figures, and it would appear that this information isn't available from the ST330. It may be available from your ISP. Armed with that information we could give some meaningful advice about how well your connection is currently performing and what you might do to improve it.
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I'm just unsure what it is you're wanting to learn/do :)
There isn't an awful lot you can learn from one connection really and USB devices are generally pretty dumb anyway - if I remember right the original Speedtouch BT supplied didn't even have flash memory fitted so every time you connected it then it loaded the firmware (modems operating system if you like) from the host computer.
Routers now are far more sophisticated and more information can be extracted from them - if you have the right router you can see noise levels changing in near real-time and graphs of noise vs frequency. You can learn a bit from that but your line looks much like mine as I said so I doubt you'd see anything on <8Mbps other than a nice graph which indicates no problems. Once you increase the speed then (electrical) noise becomes more and more of a problem and when you push your line to the limits (and beyond) using something like the DMT Tool then you learn what not to do :D
Bit more info would be good? :)
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>>we would need to know the connection speed (up and down) as well as the attenuation and margin figures
Where do I get that from?
>>I'm just unsure what it is you're wanting to learn/do
I'm just a dumb novice on adsl technology, so learning anything would be nice
>>Routers now are far more sophisticated and more information can be extracted from them - if you have the right router...
Why would I need a router, and what would the 'right one' be?
>>Bit more info would be good?
Such as?
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>> Where do I get that from?
There lies the rub, I'm afraid. I don't think it's available with the ST330, which is a relic of the early days of ADSL. The information might be available from your ISP's customer portal. You could run BT's speedtest at http://speedtester.bt.com/ which will give you your downstream connection speed (but you might have to try several times before it goes through).
The links to Kitz' site which Chris gave above will give you a lot of information about how ADSL works, but for real diagnosis of your particular line you would need to get a router to replace the ST330. This needn't cost a fortune - there are some bargains at http://www.dsldepot.co.uk/index.asp? and I can personally recommend the ST576v5, as that's what I'm using now.
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Eric I see that is a wireless one... I'm a bit old fashioned and like copper wire connectors between everything. So any recommendations for a wired router?
I'm also curious to know, would a router serve me better than the good old ST330?
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floydy
that particular router also has ports in the back to stick your 'copper' into and has the capabilities of wireless (which you might use in the future).
its also a good learning platform so you can relate all the info on this site to something on your screen and for 11 quid ... thats amazing !!!
you shouldnt get either a faster or slower connection with a router but it does have handy things built in like MAC address filtering/firewall.
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One reason why I'm a bit sceptical about having wireless network is that I live in the middle of a block of flats, and don't really want anyone trying to steal my broadband... also being a single PC household ('cept for my spare which occasionally gets put on line for updates), I think wired would suit me better.
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Just turn the wireless off then :) I've tended not to use the wireless function on ADSL routers and use a dedicated access point instead but that's mainly for historical reasons.
My 780WL (BeBox) had it turned off and so does the Netgear I'm using on UKOnline.
Re USB modems : don't they usually have a little icon down in the system tray that tells you what speed you are synchronised at? I'm fairly sure the original one BT supplied did ???
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Well, without trying to labour the point, given the cost of that router.. you can always turn the wireless off. There's a light on the router itself so you can be definitely sure wireless is either on or off.
Routers are generally better than modems from a security point of view too - you are behind a firewall and so aren't solely reliant on a software firewall to protect your PC. Being software, a software firewall is potentially fallable, a semi-decent router, on the other hand, is pretty good at keeping you totally hidden from the outside world.
That particular speedtouch router is usable with the DMT tool, so you can tweak your line if you are maxdsl enabled to squeeze a bit more out of your line, if you need to. Having said that, my speedtouch I think has developed a fault, but I reckon I am just unlucky, there are plenty of people using them with no problems whatsoever. I really should contact them about that, cuz I haven't had it that long! Anyway, I digress...
Alternatively, you couldn't go far wrong with a NetGear DG834 (non-wireless version) if you are really against having wireless in your place. If you go via kitz's amazon shop linky clicky here (http://www.kitz.co.uk/shop/shop_netgear.htm) that doesn't look a bad price and might earn kitz a couple of pennies in commission while you're at it! You can't DMT-tool the DG834 though, so I dunno how important that is to you either. But it's a nice solid router and mine has served me well and continues to do so, with no hassle whatsoever (I have the DG834G wireless version and it's great)
I would seriously consider getting a wireless one though, for the same money you can turn the wireless off, and if you ever happened to get a laptop or something, you could then turn it on and secure it properly... I know we could help to make sure your wireless was as secure as it possibly could be :)
Just to put your mind at rest a bit, generally people will only 'hack' open networks, i.e. those with no encryption / MAC filtering.. there are generally enough of those around to make it pointless spending time hacking a protected network anyway. So whilst I totally understand your concerns, there isn't really much of a reason NOT to get one with wireless functionality built in should you ever need it in the future (even if you don't think you ever will at the moment!).
Of course, it's up to you at the end of the day, I'm not trying to convince you either way, please don't think I am... just putting forward some points so you can make an informed decision :)
Hope that helps :)
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Just to add to Rizla's post, the connection status window for the 'dial-up' connection should tell you what speed you're connected at.
Alternatively you could just post up the whole of the Dr Speedtouch log (first checking for usernames/passwords, I don't think it contains any IIRC, but just check anyway!) and we'll explain the important bits to you! I'm not sure if this forum will let you post up .xml files, but you could always save it as a .txt file! :)
And in response to your previous comment.. you're not wasting anyone's time - if anyone thinks it's a waste of time they won't bother responding, simple ;D
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I'm liking the idea of a router the more I think about it now... and certainly the ones on Roseway's link look reasonably priced (remembering I tend to go for the cheap & cheerful)... anyway, here's the contents of my Dr ST log... I would really appreciate a little explanation of the 'important bits'.
Dr SpeedTouch Version
Application: 1.1.0.7
Plugin: 2.2.0.4
Tested Device
000E508F80D5
Test Error
23 (2.5.1.5.1)
Data Overview
HostDevice
OSInfo
OSName= Microsoft Windows XP Professional
OSVersion= 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OSManufacturer= Microsoft Corporation
Locale= United Kingdom
SystemInfo
CurrentTime= 16:02:43.843
CurrentDate= 18.10.2007
SystemModel= Product Name
SystemType= X86-based PC
Processor= x86 Family 6 Model 10 Stepping 0 AuthenticAMD ~1998 Mhz
BIOSVersion= 07/08/03
USBDevice
SerialToIndex
000E508F80D5= 0
0
DiscoverService
0
SerialNumber= 000E508F80D5
Name= ST330
USBInfoService
HCIName= VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller
USBTopologyService
0
SerialNumber= 000E508F80D5
ProductID= 16481
VendorID= 1721
Status= DeviceConnected
DeviceReleaseNumber= 1024
1
SerialNumber= <unknown/>
ProductID= 49213
VendorID= 1133
Status= DeviceConnected
DeviceReleaseNumber= 8192
1
DiscoverService
USBInfoService
HCIName= VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller
USBTopologyService
2
DiscoverService
USBInfoService
HCIName= VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller
USBTopologyService
3
DiscoverService
USBInfoService
HCIName= VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller
USBTopologyService
LANDevice
SerialToIndex
0
DiscoverService
LANEthernetLinkConfig
PhysicalLinkStatus= Disconnected
TotalBytesSent= 4665312
TotalBytesReceived= 96539133
Layer3Forwarding
InternetConfig
ProxyEnabled= FALSE
HTTPProxy=
SecureProxy=
FTPProxy=
GopherProxy=
SocksProxy=
HTTPPort= 0
SecurePort= 0
FTPPort= 0
GopherPort= 0
SocksPort= 0
Layer3InterfaceDevice
SerialToIndex
0
InterfaceName= WAN (PPP/SLIP) Interface
DHCPEnabled= FALSE
IPAddress
0
IPAddress= 79.66.253.98
SubnetMask= 255.255.255.255
DefaultGateway
0
DefaultGateway= 79.66.253.98
DNSServer
0
DNSServer= 212.139.132.4
1
DNSServer= 212.139.132.5
ST330
000E508F80D5
WANDevice
WANConnectionDevice
0
WANPPPConnection
0
TransportService= WANDevice.WANConnectionDevice.0.WANPPPTransport.0
DownstreamMaxBitRate= 6144000
ConnectionType= IP_Routed
ExternalDefaultGateway= 79.66.253.98
ExternalIPAddress= 79.66.253.98
ExternalIPMask= 255.255.255.255
NATEnabled= 0
Name= SpeedTouch USB ADSL PPP
RSIPAvailable= 0
PPPAuthenticationProtocol= PAP
PPPMRU= 1500
PPPMTU= 1492
UpstreamMaxBitRate= 448000
ConnectionStatus= Connected
LastConnectionError= ERROR NONE
Uptime= 32783
TotalPPPBytesReceived= 95918173
TotalPPPBytesSent= 4998176
TotalPPPSDUReceived= 78510
TotalPPPSDUSent= 76590
ExternalDNSServer
0
ExternalDNSServer= 212.139.132.4
1
ExternalDNSServer= 212.139.132.5
WANIPConnection
WANPPPTransport
WANDSLLinkConfig
ATMEncapsulation= VCMUX
ATMOAMStatus= 0
ATMQoSCategory= UBR
AutoConfig= 0
DestinationAddress= PVC:0/38
LinkStatus= Up
LinkType= PPPoA
ModemMode= POTS: GDMT.A
TotalAAL5AbortedFrames= 0
TotalAAL5FramesReceived= 78510
TotalAAL5FramesSent= 76590
TotalAAL5FramesTooLong= 0
TotalAAL5ReassemblyTimeout= 0
TotalATMCellsDiscarded= 0
TotalATMCellsReceived= 2061305
TotalATMCellsSent= 183619
TotalATMLBReceived= 0
TotalATMLBSent= 0
TotalATMOAMCCReceived= 0
TotalATMOAMCCSent= 0
WANCommonInterfaceConfig
DSLUptime= 32811
ErrorredSeconds= 1
LossOfFraming= 1
LossOfLink= 0
LossOfSignal= 1
PhysicalLinkStatus= Up
ReceiveAttenuation_dB= 25
ReceiveMargin_dB= 19
RxOutputPower_dBm= 0
SendAttenuation_dB= 15
SendMargin_dB= 16
TotalBytesReceived= 109249165
TotalBytesSent= 9731807
TotalPacketsReceived= 76590
TotalPacketsSent= 76590
TxOutputPower_dBm= 0
Uptime= 32811
ChannelMode= Interleaved
Layer1DownstreamMaxBitRate= 6144000
Layer1UpstreamMaxBitRate= 448000
WANAccessType= DSL
Layer3Forwarding
DefaultConnectionService= WANDevice.WANConnectionDevice.0.WANPPPConnection.0
ForwardingTable
DeviceInfo
ASICVersion= Sachu 3
BoardName= ADNU-F
BootloaderFlags= _N/A_
CustomizationPattern= _N/A_
FlashInfo= _N/A_
IGDModelVersion= 1.1
ProductName= SpeedTouch 330
ProductRelease= 0x0400
SerialNumber= CP0513BTYQV
SoftwareRelease= 301.0.0.12
VendorName= THOMSON
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Hmmm I reckon you should be doing a LOT better than 6Mbps down and 448kbps up. Your margins are big enough (19dB down and 16dB up) to hit at least 12Mbps downstream (15Mbps+ would be my bet).
I'm not sure why you've been interleaved unless it was by default. There is one loss of signal/loss of framing error which on a router would indicate a problem (extension wiring usually) but I'm not sure on a USB modem as it has been years since I've seen one.
You should certainly be getting the full 8Mbps service if you are on an IPStream (maxDSL) connection. On a LLU provider 12Mbps is a virtual certainty.
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I'm liking the idea of a router the more I think about it now... and certainly the ones on Roseway's link look reasonably priced (remembering I tend to go for the cheap & cheerful)
They are cheap and cheerful, not sure what the deal with them is, I think it's just end of line stuff that they get in to sell off as quick as poss? I dunno... those speedtouches have been up there for months now, so if there were problems with them they probably wouldn't be there now!
... anyway, here's the contents of my Dr ST log... I would really appreciate a little explanation of the 'important bits'.
Will do my best to point out bits (in blue) to you
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Dr SpeedTouch Version
Application: 1.1.0.7
Plugin: 2.2.0.4
Tested Device
000E508F80D5
Test Error
23 (2.5.1.5.1)
Data Overview
HostDevice
OSInfo
OSName= Microsoft Windows XP Professional
OSVersion= 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OSManufacturer= Microsoft Corporation
Locale= United Kingdom
SystemInfo
CurrentTime= 16:02:43.843
CurrentDate= 18.10.2007
SystemModel= Product Name
SystemType= X86-based PC
Processor= x86 Family 6 Model 10 Stepping 0 AuthenticAMD ~1998 Mhz
BIOSVersion= 07/08/03
USBDevice
SerialToIndex
000E508F80D5= 0
0
DiscoverService
0
SerialNumber= 000E508F80D5
Name= ST330
USBInfoService
HCIName= VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller
USBTopologyService
0
SerialNumber= 000E508F80D5
ProductID= 16481
VendorID= 1721
Status= DeviceConnected
DeviceReleaseNumber= 1024
1
SerialNumber= <unknown/>
ProductID= 49213
VendorID= 1133
Status= DeviceConnected
DeviceReleaseNumber= 8192
1
DiscoverService
USBInfoService
HCIName= VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller
USBTopologyService
2
DiscoverService
USBInfoService
HCIName= VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller
USBTopologyService
3
DiscoverService
USBInfoService
HCIName= VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller
USBTopologyService
LANDevice
SerialToIndex
0
DiscoverService
LANEthernetLinkConfig
PhysicalLinkStatus= Disconnected
TotalBytesSent= 4665312
TotalBytesReceived= 96539133
Layer3Forwarding
InternetConfig
ProxyEnabled= FALSE
HTTPProxy=
SecureProxy=
FTPProxy=
GopherProxy=
SocksProxy=
HTTPPort= 0
SecurePort= 0
FTPPort= 0
GopherPort= 0
SocksPort= 0
Layer3InterfaceDevice
SerialToIndex
0
InterfaceName= WAN (PPP/SLIP) Interface
DHCPEnabled= FALSE
IPAddress
0
IPAddress= 79.66.253.98 *this is the public IP address you've been given by your ISP
SubnetMask= 255.255.255.255
DefaultGateway
0
DefaultGateway= 79.66.253.98 * gateway (next IP hop along the path where all your traffic goes, known as the ISP's aggregator, Plusnet use Juniper Networks racks, not sure what your ISP uses)
DNSServer
0
DNSServer= 212.139.132.4 *DNS Server... for looking up names e.g. www.kitz.co.uk to IP addresses e.g. 195.62.28.175
1
DNSServer= 212.139.132.5 *secondary DNS server.. for when the first one fails ;)
ST330
000E508F80D5
WANDevice
WANConnectionDevice
0
WANPPPConnection
0
TransportService= WANDevice.WANConnectionDevice.0.WANPPPTransport.0
DownstreamMaxBitRate= 6144000 *Presumably your sync speed... bit misleading as often routers report the current sync speed as well as the maximum attainable sync speed, but looks like the Speedtouch only reports the current sync speed
ConnectionType= IP_Routed
ExternalDefaultGateway= 79.66.253.98 *explained above
ExternalIPAddress= 79.66.253.98
ExternalIPMask= 255.255.255.255
NATEnabled= 0
Name= SpeedTouch USB ADSL PPP
RSIPAvailable= 0
PPPAuthenticationProtocol= PAP *This should generally be CHAP, not PAP, for ADSL, but I don't think you can change that in the Speedtouch. Routers generally have this option
PPPMRU= 1500 *Alter your MTU for tweaking to get the max speed out of your connection. Again, I'm not sure if you can alter it in your modem. Read about it here - clicky (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/tweak.htm)
PPPMTU= 1492
UpstreamMaxBitRate= 448000 *Your upstream sync speed, again I think this is reporting actual, not maximum theoretical, as that would probably be 832000
ConnectionStatus= Connected
LastConnectionError= ERROR NONE *yay!
Uptime= 32783 *In seconds, presumably?
TotalPPPBytesReceived= 95918173 *Bytes received and sent in this session
TotalPPPBytesSent= 4998176
TotalPPPSDUReceived= 78510 *don't know what an SDU is, sorry :(
TotalPPPSDUSent= 76590
ExternalDNSServer
0
ExternalDNSServer= 212.139.132.4
1
ExternalDNSServer= 212.139.132.5
WANIPConnection
WANPPPTransport
WANDSLLinkConfig
ATMEncapsulation= VCMUX *Encapsulation VCMUX and PVC 0/38 are the required settings for BT-wholesale ADSL in the UK. Other ADSL providers and some LLU operators use different settings. All to do with the ATM network settings and far too complex for me ;)
ATMOAMStatus= 0
ATMQoSCategory= UBR
AutoConfig= 0
DestinationAddress= PVC:0/38
LinkStatus= Up
LinkType= PPPoA *PPP over ATM - again just what you need to know for UK BT-based ADSL
ModemMode= POTS: GDMT.A
TotalAAL5AbortedFrames= 0
TotalAAL5FramesReceived= 78510
TotalAAL5FramesSent= 76590
TotalAAL5FramesTooLong= 0
TotalAAL5ReassemblyTimeout= 0
TotalATMCellsDiscarded= 0
TotalATMCellsReceived= 2061305
TotalATMCellsSent= 183619
TotalATMLBReceived= 0
TotalATMLBSent= 0
TotalATMOAMCCReceived= 0
TotalATMOAMCCSent= 0
WANCommonInterfaceConfig
DSLUptime= 32811
ErrorredSeconds= 1 *These errors don't really tell us much about the state of your connection. A router would provide more details as regards to individual numbers of errors on the line - but given you've only had one errored second, you're doing ok!
LossOfFraming= 1
LossOfLink= 0
LossOfSignal= 1
PhysicalLinkStatus= Up
ReceiveAttenuation_dB= 25 *Otherwise known as downstream attenuation, the loss on your line as expressed in dB. Pretty directly related to line length. The higher the value the slower max speed you'll get. Yours seems pretty good
ReceiveMargin_dB= 19 *Otherwise known as the downstream SNR Margin. Amount of decent electrical signal compared to amount of noise on the line. Generally the higher the better, but sometimes BT's systems can push it too high, which means you don't sync as fast as you perhaps could do
RxOutputPower_dBm= 0
SendAttenuation_dB= 15 *Same as above, but for upstream, generally a lot less critical as I don't often hear of people having problems with upstream ADSL. Again, looks pretty healthy
SendMargin_dB= 16
TotalBytesReceived= 109249165
TotalBytesSent= 9731807
TotalPacketsReceived= 76590
TotalPacketsSent= 76590
TxOutputPower_dBm= 0
Uptime= 32811
ChannelMode= Interleaved *Interleaved or Fast Path. Interleaved is the default applied to connections since shortly after ADSL Max became widespread. Interleaving swaps the packets around in such a way that on a noisy line that is susceptible to bursts of interference, the efficiency of data transfer is less impaired than if Interleaving is off. Explanation here - clicky! (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm)
Layer1DownstreamMaxBitRate= 6144000
Layer1UpstreamMaxBitRate= 448000
WANAccessType= DSL
Layer3Forwarding
DefaultConnectionService= WANDevice.WANConnectionDevice.0.WANPPPConnection.0
ForwardingTable
DeviceInfo
ASICVersion= Sachu 3
BoardName= ADNU-F
BootloaderFlags= _N/A_
CustomizationPattern= _N/A_
FlashInfo= _N/A_
IGDModelVersion= 1.1
ProductName= SpeedTouch 330
ProductRelease= 0x0400
SerialNumber= CP0513BTYQV
SoftwareRelease= 301.0.0.12
VendorName= THOMSON
-----
Whew, hope that's helped somewhat! Didn't realise the log had so much repeated information in it!!
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Have run Dr TCP and entered the values MTU=1430 and RWIN=166800 - what this is going to do I've no idea.
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That's what I like to see - an adventurous chap :)
Seriously though, Chris has done a fine job explaining bits of your log, and I can't really add anything to it.
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I can't help wondering if the limiting factor on his connection is actually the USB device. He should surely be getting the full 8Mbps with those stats?
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The flashing computers in the systray suggest i'm getting a speed of 6.1 Mbps.
IIRC before I had the problems a few months back (and was offline for a week) I was getting the full 8 Mbps.
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I'm new to these forums so could you summarise what your problems were?
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Here's the thread about it: http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,759.0.html
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Hmm its been a while but I remember error 721 all too well on BT Openworld (2001). Your margin suggests that someone was bumping up your noise margin to see whether that fixed your problem. I doubt it did.
Do you know if you are on a BT-based service or is your connection a LLU one?
Edit - if you weren't with Tiscali I'd suggest asking for the downstream margin to be reduced to 9dB. Its probably worth a try with them too but I suspect it'll take several phonecalls ;)
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Actually I find that Tiscali support is OK when you get past those morons on front line support (uninstall your modem, reinstall it, reboot windows, etc etc).
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It's getting past first line that is becoming more and more of an issue these days :(
Anyway I reckon someone has bumped up your margin. 19dB downstream margin AND interleaved is taking the proverbial really.
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Sorry for really being thick, but I still don't understand what the terms 'downstream margin' or 'interleaved' mean.
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Downstream margin is another way of saying Downstream SNR (Signal-To-Noise) Margin.
Downstream is from the exchange to you.. i.e. coming 'down' into your house.
Margin or SNR Margin is an indication of how strong the good (ADSL) signal is compared to noise (i.e. interference, unwanted signals) on the line, expressed in decibels (dB).
For a better understanding read this ---> http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm
I can't explain interleaving better than linking to kitz's page on it. ---> http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm
If there's a particular point you don't understand after reading those, just ask :)
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It's getting past first line that is becoming more and more of an issue these days :(
Anyway I reckon someone has bumped up your margin. 19dB downstream margin AND interleaved is taking the proverbial really.
So based on that, if I put in a support ticket to Tiscali, what should I ask for and how should it be worded?
(by contacting tech support that way you get straight to the second line chaps)
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I would suggest something like :
"I've noticed that my line only synchronises a little above 6Mbps now. It used to sync at the full 8Mbps until a recent fault in the exchange equipment* but now only synchronises at 6Mbps. My downstream noise margin seems rather high (19dB) and I'm interleaved as well. I wonder if you would be kind enough to set a target noise margin of 9dB as that looks likely to give me the full 8Mbps and shouldn't cause stability problems with the line."
I'm suggesting 9dB as that should take you to the maximum 8Mbps. If it works well (give it a couple of weeks) then I'd be inclined to ask for interleaving to be taken off the line as it uses some of your bandwidth (speed if you like) as error correction. If you don't have some sort of local wiring problem or electrical noise then there's no point in having it on a line as good as yours - well certainly not on an 8Mbps service anyway. There is little point in dropping the margin to 6dB unless you are on a >8Mbps service, and your USB modem probably can't handle >8Mbps anyway. I strongly suspect that you'd get the full 8Mbps on a margin of 12dB, but you will definitely get it on 9dB.
If that doesn't make sense then just ask :)
*quote the ticket number of the problems you had.
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Rizla, I've sent the support ticket worded exactly as you wrote it, and enclosed my Dr Speedtouch results. Hopefully that will make them break wind... I'll keep you informed.
And yeah, it's slowly starting to make sense thanks to you guys. :)
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Fingers crossed you get some sense back from Tiscali then :)
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Dont know about LLU providers but as far as I know all new BT provides for a while now have been with interleaving turned on by default, regardless of line conditions.
The reason I think is as simple as hoping it wil reduce the number of faults reported, especially on marginal lines.
Obviously for those fortunate enough to recieve high speeds on good quality lines or who require especially low latency data tranmission it could be considered an incovenience to use or to have to arrange for it to be turned off.
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>> BTW Kitz, on the speedtouch page that you link to, there is no mention of Dr Speedtouch
ty - it looks like theyve changed the page and added some info re vista - I'll change it when I get a mo. - thanks :)
>> I think about it now... and certainly the ones on Roseway's link look reasonably priced (remembering I tend to go for the cheap & cheerful)
I did a mini-review of that particular router here
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,529.0.html
>> I can't help wondering if the limiting factor on his connection is actually the USB device
Im only quickly scanning this thread (still in catchup mode)... but the stats did look slightly odd to me... and the first thing I thought was that line should be capable of more than its getting.
DownstreamMaxBitRate= 6144000
ReceiveAttenuation_dB= 25
ReceiveMargin_dB= 19
A 25db atten line should sync at the full 8Mb.. Theres also plenty of spare margin - a heck of a lot.
Practically no errors so I wouldnt expect it to have a high target SNR either.
Perhaps a resync during the early part of the day may help.
Have a look at your ReceiveMargin immediately after a resync to guage your target SNR.
>> 19dB downstream margin AND interleaved is taking the proverbial really.
Does seem very steep for that line.. Ive managed to find a bit of info about the tiscali LLU profiles which are posted at the bottom of the page here (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/llutest.htm)... but the target SNRs arent that clear. 9dB seens to be the norm.. although they do do a 6dB, 12db and probably the 15dB which is the high too.
Oops just noticed a page 3 - think the others have covered all I wanted to say.
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Yeah I think Tiscali/BT/whoever bumped the SNR up to see if that would be a quick fix - I can see this becoming the standard practice really. Hopefully a 9dB profile won't cause problems (it shouldn't) but I do have to say I'd be happier giving that advice to someone with a router/modem rather than a USB modem.
I doubt anything will happen all that rapidly anyway :)
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>> Yeah I think Tiscali/BT/whoever bumped the SNR up to see if that would be a quick fix ....
I hope not:/
>> giving that advice to someone with a router/modem
Yeah - but shouldnt harm to try a resync to see if it does alter things... and at least attempt to get a reading of the magin immediately after. As soon as I saw those stats my immediate thought was perhaps the USB limitation, but if floydy has been able to sync higher in the past then perhaps not.
A router would give way more control.. and the nice thing about the ST routers is the DMT tool seems to work pretty well with them if you want to tweak bits :)
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Floydy - just thought.
Try seeing if you can do the tiscali connection test (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/llutest.htm).
If you can log in there and the adsl checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) says tiscali LLU is at your exchange then it is a sure bet that youre on tiscali LLU
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I was sort of assuming he must be - or is the BT system so brain-dead it'd go up to 19dB margin interleaved for a 6Mbps sync? I genuinely don't know - having dodged that particular bullet ;)
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tbh Ive not heard of a 19dB target at all before- either BT or tiscali. Hence why I think a resync to check.
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Tis a USB modem kitz so unless the man runs the PC 24/7 he resyncs at least once a day ;)
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However, the following test can help check if you are on Tiscali LLU, but please bear in mind that the test will also work if you are on a Tiscali DataStream service.
You will need to change your router or modem settings to the following:-
username: testing@dslconnect.co.uk
password: testing
From there you may also be able to navigate to: http://www.dslconnect.co.uk
What on earth does that mean - I'm totally confused about what I'm supposed to do?
However the ADSL checker gives these results:
BT Exchange Information
Exchange: Norwich City. BT Code: EANCC
Location: St Andrews Street, NR2 4AE.
ADSL enabled : June 30, 2001
dsl Max enabled: March 31, 2006
SDSL enabled : Enabled
21CN due : Q4 2009
Distance:- Direct: 821 metres
(appx)* By Road: 1.13 km
adsl button Fixed ADSL: 2048 kbps (2 Mb)
adsl button DSL Max : 6000 kbps (6 Mb)
Fixed: 1Mbps and 2Mbps available
radsl: 512Kbps and 256Kbps available
MAX: ADSL Max is available
SDSL: 2 Mbps available
TPON: TPON/Fibre not recorded
Check: The check identified another service on your line which may prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection. Examples are : Existing adsl connection, DACs, LLU, TPON
Other Broadband Technology & LLU Providers
AOL Available
Be* Not available
C&W/Bulldog Available 20.05.06
Edge Telecom Not available
Homechoice Not available
Lumison Not available
NewNet Not available
Node4 Not available
Orange Not available
Pipex Available 27.05.07
Smallworld Not available
Sky/Easynet Not available
TalkTalk Available
Tiscali Available 25.07.07
WB Internet Not available
Zen Not available
Cable
Virgin Media Not available
Smallworld Media Not available
Wireless
LTT Broadband Not available
Now Wireless Not available
-
>> Tiscali Available 25.07.07
Means that tiscali have llu'd your exchange so the chances you are connected to one of their dslams rather than a BT one is extremely likely.
The test I linked to is if you change your login details to the ones on there in your modem and can connect - then it just confirms that its tiscali rather than BT thats providing the backhaul.
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This is the response I got as a result of sending that support ticket:
As i understand your question you are having problem with your speed before you were getting 8mbps and after a recent fault in exchange
you are getting 6.1Mbps the answer to your question is please give a call once to the technical support and check the latest speed bcoz as per the details which i could see you are getting 8Mbps speed thanks.
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That's about what I'd expect from Tiscali. I guess you'll have to persevere as you quite clearly aren't getting 8Mbps - not from the log you posted here anyway.
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That's about what I'd expect from Tiscali. I guess you'll have to persevere as you quite clearly aren't getting 8Mbps - not from the log you posted here anyway.
Not unless windows is telling me porkies:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv250%2FFloydoid%2Ftbs.jpg&hash=d765436efbdd765324eddeffeb45822db1fc8e05)
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there are some bargains at http://www.dsldepot.co.uk/index.asp?
Has anyone actually dealt with this company, because it bothers me that I can find neither a postal address nor a phone number with an area code... the only contact would appear to be a 0870 number.
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There's a slightly worrying thread regading DSLdepot here :
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=hwsuppliers&Number=3152849&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0&fpart=
And another :
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=hwsuppliers&Number=2895432&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0&fpart=
Edit - and if there is no postal address on their site then they are breaking the law as Distance Selling Regulations clearly state that you must display a postal address.
Edit 2 - here's the whois info which does give an address. No idea if its the real address or not :
10/22/07 09:39:50 whois dsldepot.co.uk@whois.nic.uk
whois -h whois.nic.uk dsldepot.co.uk ...
Domain name:
dsldepot.co.uk
Registrant:
Lucinda Walton
Registrant type:
Unknown
Registrant's address:
358 Stanton Road
No Value
DE15 9SF
Burton on Trent
Staffs
OX4 6LB
GB
Registrar:
Unitron Systems & Developments Ltd [Tag = UNITRON]
URL: http://www.userve.net
Relevant dates:
Registered on: 22-Jun-2002
Renewal date: 22-Jun-2008
Last updated: 09-Jun-2006
Registration status:
Registered until renewal date.
Name servers:
ns.userve.net
ns2.userve.net
ns3.userve.net
WHOIS lookup made at 09:39:51 22-Oct-2007
--
This WHOIS information is provided for free by Nominet UK the central registry
for .uk domain names. This information and the .uk WHOIS are:
Copyright Nominet UK 1996 - 2007.
You may not access the .uk WHOIS or use any data from it except as permitted
by the terms of use available in full at http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois, which
includes restrictions on: (A) use of the data for advertising, or its
repackaging, recompilation, redistribution or reuse (B) obscuring, removing
or hiding any or all of this notice and (C) exceeding query rate or volume
limits. The data is provided on an 'as-is' basis and may lag behind the
register. Access may be withdrawn or restricted at any time. [/i]
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I've just fired off a rather terse reply to them, along eith the above screenshot:
Thanks for getting back to me, two points:
1) You haven't given me an answer at to whether you can set my target noise margin at 9dB instead of the 19 which I am currently getting.
2) I am most certainly not connecting at any where near 8 Mbps as the attached screenshot of my connection status will testify.
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I don't believe that there's any significant problem with DSL Depot compared to other online suppliers. I bought a router from them, and I know Kitz bought two, and their delivery service was immaculate, with complete traceability at all times. Their address is no secret, it's printed on their invoices. They are associates of DSL Source, DSL Depot being the part of the company which disposes of discontinued models, refurbished equipment, etc. They are trading names for:
Net Lynk Ltd.
Roman Park
Roman Way
Coleshill
Birmingham
B46 1HG
A couple of moans on ADSLGuide doesn't mean anything - you'll find similar moans about just about any online supplier.
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Thanks for clearing that up Eric. I'm fairly sure I've used DSL Source before (used so many suppliers I can't honestly remember :) ) and they were OK.
The comment about the address having to appear on the website stands though. Someone ought to point it out to them.
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here's the whois info which does give an address. No idea if its the real address or not
Searches on yell.com. bt.com and royalmail.com have all drawn blanks for the company name / address searches.
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>> Has anyone actually dealt with this company,
Floydy if you read my post above (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,993.msg36554.html#msg36554), I linked to a mini-review (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,529.0.html) of that particular router from DSLdepot. I know at least half a dozen others that bought that same router at the same time and had no problems with DSLdepot. Over the years Ive seen many people sucessfully buy from DSLdepot or DSLsource and be perfectly happy with the kit. Ive been aware of them for as long as Ive had adsl.. in fact iirc AG used to sometimes link to them in their hardware reviews. But same as with any company, sometimes problems do crop up.
Just remember what it says on their site.
DSL Depot are the sister company of DSL Source, we can offer you a wide range of B-Grade, dicontinued and refurbished Broadband equipment at rock bottom prices. If you would prefer the latest and greatest then why not visit dslsource.co.uk
The ST appear to be a job lot of an older product. (a newer version is now out for sale)
Both DSLdepot and DSLsource (and a couple of others) are part of the NetLynk (http://www.netlynkdirect.com/index.asp) Company.
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Ah cool, maybe I'm just a bit over cautious... seems strange they do not print their address on the site (unless I'm missing something as usual). I'll probably order that router at the weekend. :)
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Floydy - just thought.
Try seeing if you can do the tiscali connection test (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/llutest.htm).
If you can log in there and the adsl checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) says tiscali LLU is at your exchange then it is a sure bet that youre on tiscali LLU
The connection test would appear to fail - I get a 'site not found' error when trying to connect to http://www.dslconnect.co.uk
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Well I've not had any more response to my support ticket. I guess I'm going to have to phone the Indian call centre (at great cost to myself). :(
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>> I get a 'site not found' error when trying to connect to http://www.dslconnect.co.uk
Did you attempt changing your login details in your ST330?
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Yes I did Kitz.
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If you cant do that test then that means that you should be able to do this one
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/bttest.htm
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If he can do that one then he's not LLU'd I assume. If that is the case I'd leg it to another ISP who has a clue. Sadly I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable recommending any ISP these days :(
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>> If he can do that one then he's not LLU'd I assume
mhmm. Hence its worth a try... however I still suspect he's been LLU'd or perhaps in the process of. Tiscali aint gonna have one of their dslams in an exchange and not put their users on it.
>> Sadly I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable recommending any ISP these days
I gave up doing that a long time ago.. much easier to point out facts and let the other person make up their own mind. Some ISPs work well for some but not for others.
However there are a couple of ISPs who in my books are complete dont go theres. Funny enough 3 of em begin with T :/
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By which I assume Tiscali is one of them... All I can say is after several years with freeserve/wannadon't (or whatever they are called these days), and a brief flirtation with Virgin... Tiscali are by far the better of the 3 ISP's I've been with. I'm not in the mood to call them this week... will do so early next week. And in the meantime I'm going to be ordering that router... so expect lots more inane questions from me.
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There's no such thing as an inane question, only an inane answer. ;D
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As long as it comes with a manual I'm sure I'll be able to work it out. Up to now the only pieces of kit I've ever used for connecting to the net are a dial-up modem (still lurking somewhere in my box of spare computer parts), and the dear old speedtouch frog.
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It will come with a CD. The last ADSL router I had which came with a printed manual was the original Speedtouch Pro - metal case and a 500 page printed manual. These days printing a 500 page manual probably costs more than the router :D
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There will be a 'Getting started' sheet, and the full manual will be on the CD.
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Are these people complete morons? The latest reply from so-called tiscalu support:
I understand that you have issue with the phone service.
It would be my pleasure to assist you. However, I would like to inform you that we have a dedicated team called Tiscali Talk who handles all the issues related to phone call features. You can contact our Tiscali Talk team at 08712223311 opt 1, opt3. Calls are charged at national rate. Lines are open 8am to midnight, 7 days a week.
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That is pretty much what I'd expect frankly. I did wonder whether some miracle had happened when you said that you could get to second-line via email/tickets :(
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Well it did happen once before... I'll be ringing them up early next week, probably from a padded cell (for my own protection).
Router is ordered btw. :)
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Remind me again old lad what services/contract you have with Tiscali? I can't help feeling there must be a better alternative for you.
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I have line rental, phone calls and internet... kinda locked into a 12 month contract at the mo... and less of the old!
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Ah the "old lad" is just something I find myself saying these days - gods only know why :D
At the moment as they seem to be fulfilling your contract you are hooked and landed I guess :(
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Well this is the latest blurb I've recieved from Tiscali... looks like I'm going to have to phone them at some point.
"Dear Mr. *Stephens,
Thank you for contacting Tiscali Technical Support.
I gather from your email that you are not receiving 8 Mbps connectivity, though you are subscribed to MAX.
I would like to put forward some clarifications regarding the Tiscali Max package. The speed of your line depends on a number of factors:
1. The download speeds on this product will be the maximum your line can reliably support up to 8Mb. This will depend on the quality of your line and distance from exchange.
2. Quality of the actual BT copper phone line.
There are also other things that can affect your connection speed - such as the length & quality of any phone wiring extensions in your home; the age and the type of the ADL modem; the speed of the computer and whether the ADSL micro filters you have are correctly installed.
I performed certain tests on your BT line & found that it supports a maximum speed up to 6 Mbps.
We are working with BT and are in the process of upgrading the lines. This is an ongoing process, and it may be possible in the near future to increase the Internet speed. However at this stage we are unable to advise you of the time scales involved.
Regards,
Tiscali Technical Support"
* This is not even my name... only the 'St' bit is correct.
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Hmmm. On the basis of the stats we've seen here, Tiscali Technical Support are either :
a) lying to you to get rid of your ticket quickly;
b) totally clueless;
c) both.
Get another ISP when you are out of contract is the only advice I can give :(
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I have again asked them directly if they can set my target noise margin at 9dB... if I don't get a satisfactory reply, I'll be phoning them.
BTW the speedtouch 576 arrived this morning and appeared to install without a hitch.
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That's good - the Speedtouch 576 should show far more accurately (with DMT Tool) what your line is capable of.
-
Umm, what is 'DMT tool'?
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http://www.kitz.co.uk/tute/DMTv7.htm :)
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Ah cool, I think I'll let it 'bed in' first before I try anything fancy...
Inane question #1: Is it recommended to turn the router off at any time?
-
if you can, leave the router on all the time, saves it having to resync and retrain (if left off for long enough)
... but sometimes you may have to reboot your router as part of diagnosing a dead connection for instance.
-
Inane question #2: How do you reboot the router?
-
Two ways:
1. From the router's web interface - click on 'Speedtouch' at the left side, then under 'Pick a task' select 'Restart'.
2. Switch it off, wait 10 seconds, switch it on.
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Aah, as simple as that. :)
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When you get a chance, post up some stats from the router's web interface so we can see if it agrees with the ST330 you were using.
When you're in the web interface go to Broadband Connection -> DSL Connection -> Details and paste what it says there.
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When you get a chance, post up some stats from the router's web interface so we can see if it agrees with the ST330 you were using.
When you're in the web interface go to Broadband Connection -> DSL Connection -> Details and paste what it says there.
This is what I get:
Uptime: 0 days, 9:20:24
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 6,144
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 7.82 / 71.80
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.0 / 25.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 19.0 / 23.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / GSPN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
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That line is capable of a LOT faster speeds than 8Mbps - just as we thought before. I'd guess 15Mbps or so if you were on an ADSL2+ supplier.
Tiscali are talking nonsense - as usual.
-
Yeah just as luck would have it, today Tiscali sent me an invitation to take part in a customer satisfaction survey... needless to say I've given them a not too glowing report.
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Perhaps a copy and paste of the relevant lines from your router stats in the email would be in order?
I.e. these ones:
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 6,144
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.0 / 25.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 19.0 / 23.5
But you may just be wasting your time. If you want your 8Mb you might end up having to switch ISPs.
You might also be able to get MrSaffron (Andrew Ferguson) from ADSLGuide to do something.
If you email him at [ andrew at thinkbroadband dot com ] with a copy of all your line stats and some background info he might be able to do something. Can't promise though
[email addy edited to protect the address against spam bots]
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This is the final reply I got from them... support ticket now marked as 'resolved'.
Thank you for contacting Tiscali Technical Support.
What I get from your email is that you would like to know can whether my downstream noise margin can be reduced to 9 dB.
I understand your concern and would be glad to answer your query. I have checked the settings for your network and found that the settings are as required. In this case, we are unable to alter the settings.
Hope the information provided by us has addressed your concern. For any other queries or concern, feel free to contact us and we will be glad to assist you.
S I suppose it means I'm getting what I should be getting. Thanks for all the help everyone.
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Well if by "I suppose it means I'm getting what I should be getting" you mean you should be getting abysmal support from script reading muppets.....? ;)
Just wait until the 12 months are up then leave. Do NOT be tempted by any of the retention nonsense they will say to you when you tell them you're leaving - they will promise you all sorts to get you to stay. You won't get any of it though as they won't put any of it in writing :(
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Well one last warning shot across the bows... I've fired off this message to them:
Just for the record, here are the line stats from my router:
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 6,144
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.0 / 25.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20.0 / 24.5
I am posting these just for your information and to see if anything can possibly be done.
I still do not understand how when I was getting 7.9 Mbps before the connection problems with the line back in July, and and am only attaining 6.1 Mbps now.
Yes I just re-checked my router stats... on a point of information I think I'm locked into their contract till next July.
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Did you email andrew at adslguide like I suggested?
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Did you email andrew at adslguide like I suggested?
Not yet... how would he be able to help?
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He's got close links with BT Wholesale and has successfully managed to get a lot of stuff done. He got the BT database changed for me two years when it said I couldn't get 2Mb, when it was obvious that I could.
Just email him the copy of all your line stats and explain that your SNR has jumped up to this ridiculous figure because of a line fault that has now been rectified, and that you have been told that he might be able to help, so please would he see if he could do something about getting the SNR reduced back down to 6 or 9dB for you.
Tiscali should be able to do this, but given it often involves a lot of to-and-froing with the ISP <--> BT, they probably just can't be bothered. That reply you received from Tiscali was absolute nonsense, the 'support' person obviously didn't even understand your question.
-
I've now emailed Andrew.
-
Let us know how it goes.
btw - Ive edited andrews email addy in chris's post...
- Unfair to leave it open to spam harvesters.
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kitz, I wondered that, but he openly posts it on the ThinkBroadband forums, which is why I decided to post it openly here.
I don't think you have anything to worry about (http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=andrew@adslguide.org.uk) really!
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Well I exchanged a couple of emails with Andrew and have not heard back from him.
This morning Tiscali have finally sent me a response from that 'final warning shot' I sent on the 1st:
I understand that you wish to know what has decreased the Broadband connection speed.
First of all, I am unable to comment on the data provided by you.
I have refreshed the line and request you to check whether the connection speed improves. I also suggest you to power cycle(restart) the router and check whether this makes any difference to your connection speed.
Needless to say rebooting the router has made no difference.
-
:(
What were your line stats after you rebooted?
Should be able to see from the SNR Margin figure if they have changed it
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These are the current stats (since rebooting):
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 6,144
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1.08 / 7.13
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.0 / 25.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20.0 / 23.5
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At 20dB I think its a pretty safe bet to say that they have done naff all. >:(
Looking back at their reply
>> First of all, I am unable to comment on the data provided by you.
Translation = "I dont know what the hell youre talking about because I dont know the first thing about adsl - therefore its best I dont say anything".
>> I have refreshed the line
Translation = " I disconnected you from the Internet so it at least looks like Ive done something"
>> I also suggest you to power cycle(restart) the router
Translation = "Rebooting the router cures everything doesnt it?".
I'm sure you'd get more joy banging your head against a brick wall :wall:
I know how I'd respond to that email. :mad:
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Kitz, that was more or less (give or take a few expletives) my interpretation of their reply... I'm slowly losing the will to live here.
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I dunno what to suggest now.. apart from responding to them saying that who ever dealt with your mail obviously had no idea about how adsl works and would they please pass your request on to someone who does.. because no amount of rebooting or anything that you can do will change the situation.
They need to place a request to change your Target SNR on the dslam to a lower profile (preferably the default of 6dB) rather than the 15dB which its currently set at.
You could always say too failure to meet this ongoing request will result in you asking for your MAC key.
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Trouble is Kitz, I'm locked into Tiscali for about another 6 months... I'm not going to give up yet tho.
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good luck floydy
I wouldnt either - worth (yet) another shot
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Yet another 'fob-you-off' response from them:
I understand that you wish to know why the Broadband connection has come down to 6.1 Mbps from 7.9 Mbps.
After checking your line I would like to inform you that the reliable connection that can be provioded on your line is 6 Mbps. You may some time experiencine higher connection speed, but the reliable connection possible is 6 Mbps.
If you have any further queries or suggestions please feel free to contact us.
And my response:
My point is that before the problems in July I was consistently getting 7.9 Mbps, and since then have only been getting 6.1. Also I am intrigued to know why you are 'unable to comment' on the data I have been providing.
On another issue, this query has been going on for a month now and you don't seem to be able to provide any positive help. In fact I'm not sure that you have done anything at all, apart from 'refreshing the line' - whatever that means.
If the situation doesn't improve, as soon as I am no longer tied into my Tiscali contract, I will seriously reconsider whether I would be better off taking my custom elsewhere.
So I would suggest that you do something positive for me, as suggested elsewhere in this query thread, of if you cannot help, pass this over to someone who is willing to address the technical issues I have been raising.
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Well I don't believe it, Tiscali have 'refreshed' my line again, and look at the stats now:
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 288 / 8,032
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/KB]: 135.00 / 806.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.0 / 25.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 18.5
Surely it couldn't be because I suggested I might be buggering off elsewhere?
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Ermmm what happened to your upstream speed? ???
-
Yeah good question.
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Interesting reply tho from the boneheads at Tiscali support:
I understand that you are concerned with the broadband speed.
Mr. ********, I have refreshed that network settings for your broadband account. Your broadband line can supports a maximum stable speed of 6mb.
I believe, this information has addressed your concern.
For any further assistance please feel free to write to us.
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>> I believe, this information has addressed your concern.
:lol:
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>> I believe, this information has addressed your concern.
:lol:
Yeah right, that's also what the safety inspector told the captain of the titanic.
-
For any further assistance please feel free to write to us.
Preferably by post :D
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:no:
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Why the shake of the head Kitz?
-
sorry should have made that clearer..
it was the assumption they had made "I believe, this information has addressed your concern.".
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Oh lol, but while my downspeed is back to where it was before, I'm not sure I want to rock the boat any more... unless you have any more helpful suggestions that is. :)
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Not really Im afraid. Did you get the upstream sorted?
The only thing I did notice about your last set of stats was the very high SNR Margin (higher is better).
An SNR Margin of 18.5db on a line syncing at 8032 is very good and I did perhaps wonder why.
Bear in mind that Im on a 7dB atten line (lowever is better) compared to your 25dB atten line and the most "spare" SNR Margin is around 15dB.
Although saying that for the past few weeks its been more sitting at around 12dB.. and the past few days 10-11 db/me wonders if the neighbours have been doing something.
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The Tiscali knuckleheads haven't responded yet vis-a-vis the upstream... as for the neighbours, I'm pretty sure that's not a problem here.
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sorry - not making myself too clear today am I? :(
I meant I wondered why my SNR had suddenly taken a dive after about 18 months.
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Oops, mea culpa Kitz... I must have been having yet another senior moment there.
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Im not sure if its you or me :D
Im just very tired today (not sure if theres some bug or something going around) and am feeling a bit "dazed". :D
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Actually quite a few of my online friends have been complaining about having the cold bug... there must be something going round the aether.
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The other option is I had too many late nights last week drinking more than Im used to and its caught up with me now. :(
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Well in that case Dr Mike prescribes an early night preceded by a mug of hot chocolate. :)
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Which ironically is sorta what I did last night - although I had an alternative to hot chocolate.
- and I actually remembered to switch the phones off this time so no one could disturb me.
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Not the 'brown milk' kitz :)
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>> Not the 'brown milk' kitz
:D.. Nope lol..
Im not a whisky drinker - actually I dont like Bells etc,
but will partake in the odd sip (or 2) of brandy - for medicinal purposes ;)
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I've just had one of the Tiscali Knuckleheads on the phone re my query about the reduced upstream margin, and basically the reply went something like this "here's nothing we (meaning Tiscali) can do about it, you would have to contact BT".
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Thats so totally passing the book. :angry:
Tiscali is your ISP not BT... lol BT wont be able to do a damn thing about it - unless they were your ISP.
If you ring BT it will be a total wast of your time and theirs - its nothing to do with BT at all.
Its the ISP who has to place the request to BT Wholesale - although looking at your profile it looks like you are either with Tiscali LLU or Tiscali Datastream.
I'd be tempted to tell them that you rang BT who said that if BT was your ISP they would have no problems in getting BTWholesale to reset your profile.
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Yeah it did smell of buck passing to me, but TBH now I've got my old downstream rate back, I'm happy to leave things as they are, and draw a line under the topic for now..
However, 3 things have become clear to me since I started this thread:
1) You guys - Kitz, Astral, Roseway, Mr Chris, Rizla and everyone else who has helped along the way are truly great guys (and girls).
2) Tiscali don't know their SNR from their attenuation.
3) I'm a little bit older, quite a bit more wiser, and a lot more cynical.
Once again, thanks to all of you for putting up with me. :)
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That's a very generous comment Floydy, and much appreciated.
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Same here :)
I don't quite know what to say about Tiscali after reading the responses you've had. Incompetence doesn't really cover it does it? :(
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Same here :)
Incompetence doesn't really cover it does it? :(
That's something of an understatement there. :P
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lol if it was me I would have gone RWAAAAAAAAAAR long before now :lol:
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Cheers Floydy :) It's nice to be appreciated.
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Just one final addendum to this topic, I've just set up my first wireless network, combining the speedtouch 576 v6 router with one of these:
http://www.dsldepot.co.uk/product_details.asp?idProduct=651 (5 quid cheaper than ebuyer)
so I can have both the main PC and the spare online together if I so wish.
And as it's my first attempt ever at networking I feel rather proud at my achievements, even though it's probably child's play to the rest of you.
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>probably child's play to the rest of you.<
Not me. I can remember wanting to chuck the PC out of the window trying to get a network to actually do what it's name implies.
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>> I've just set up my first wireless network, combining the speedtouch 576 v6 router with one of these:
Hey well done you.
>> as it's my first attempt ever at networking I feel rather proud at my achievements,
and so you should... crikey within the past couple of months installing a new network and linux!
You'll be a geek before you know it ;D
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Hmmm, putting Linux on the back burner for the mo, but I have persuaded Panomania (son of Floydy) to invest in a speedtouch router instead of his crappy old frog.
There's (some) life in the old dog yet.
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>> There's (some) life in the old dog yet.
I should hope so too. ;)