Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Technology => Topic started by: danieltharris on August 26, 2011, 12:26:53 PM
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Hi,
I'm new to the forum so first post here.
Sorry if any of this comes out as a rant, as it's quite frustrating but just really need to see if there's anything I can realistically do to help us, and our neighbours.
Me and my girlfriend recently bought a new house, a new build and we have major issues with our broadband.
We were with Talk Talk, but just switched over to Plus Net as i'd heard bad things about TT so switched during the 14 day period.
We get rediculously slow speeds, aparently due to us having a very long line to the exchange. However, the speeds we get are plain rediculous, we get 25 kb/s download speeds...MAX!
This is horrible for me, as I am a software engineer and general geek, so I obviously make a lot of use out of our internet connection. We can't get Virgin Media in our area, as they either didn't have the hindsight, didn't know, or didn't think it worth the cost to cable our area when all the new houses were being built, so that option is out of the window :-(
Very frustrating as I know the closest road to us not part of the new development can get get up to 30 meg broadband, as opposed to our 270 odd K ADSL.
It seems a combination of long line, and cheap materials used by BT are the cause of the slow speed. Are we doomed to slow speeds until Virgin Media cable our area? Or is there anything realistic we can do?
All the other homeowners here have the same problem, and we are trying to get together to somehow convince Virgin Media it's worth cabling the area (If that's even possible at this stage).
Both technical, and non-technical people are frustrated by the speeds, streaming anything from YouTube, iPlayer or anything like that is a no-go, reasonable size downloads take forever, it's really not that much faster than Dialup was, I remember getting 3.5 kb/s speeds back in 1997!
With all the talk and advertisement you see for up to 50Meg speeds in some parts of the country, and with me never getting lower than 4Meg speeds (That was in the city centre and max speed!) I never realised there are still parts of non-rural areas where people genuinely have problems with broadband. It seems getting the entire country onto decent speed broadband is either never going to happen, or will take another 10 years if in some areas we are now only getting speeds around 6-7 times faster than we were 14 years ago.
Any answer to the problem, or just pray that one day Virgin Media cable the area? Because if BT have used the cheapest wiring possible now, on brand new properties then I don't see them doing any upgrade works in the next 10 years.
2 properties ago I was on 20Meg Virgin Media with reliable speeds, and that was in a much less populated part of the country. Really hoping they decide to do it at some point, they would clean up in this area because everybody is ready to switch to them.
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Hi and welcome,
So we can get a handle on the condition of your connection, could you copy your router stats (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php) here.
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ADSL Mode: ADSL2
Interleaving: Off
DSL Line Speed
Up: 443 kbps Down: 207 kbps
Line Attenuation
Up: 45.0 dB Down: 63.5 dB
SN Margin
Up: 7.3 dB Down: 4.1 dB
Total Errors Seconds: 0
These are the stats from the router. Line Attenuation could indeed be higher, but as far as i'm aware most routers won't show anything higher than 63.5dB, even if it's higher in reality.
If you need anything else please let me know.
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Hi Daniel,
Those statistic look terrible. :(
What modem/router are you using? Can you set it to G.Dmt (the original ADSL1 mode)?
To which exchange are you connected? Perhaps you would input your phone number and postcode into Kitz' ADSL Exchange and Line Checker (http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php), then copy/paste all the relevant output (eliding any private information)?
As a new build development, do you have an External NTE (http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm) (bottom of the page)? If that is the case, then all your internal wiring will be by the builder's electrician and not necessarily of the standard required for an ADSL signal.
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You should definitely get better throughput than that , even on the old lines across the Purbecks people are getting nearer 2mb , 4km from the exchange.
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I second what b*cat said - if your router has the capability, you may well find that you get better performance in ADSL1 mode (G.Dmt). But with such a long line you shouldn't set your expectations too high - as the upstream attenuation is 45 dB, it's quite probable that the true downstream attenuation is a lot more than 63.5 dB.
And as mentioned, it would be a good idea to check out your internal wiring very carefully, to try to eliminate every possible cause of non-optimal performance.
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Hi,
I'm new to the forum so first post here.
Sorry if any of this comes out as a rant, as it's quite frustrating but just really need to see if there's anything I can realistically do to help us, and our neighbours.
Me and my girlfriend recently bought a new house, a new build and we have major issues with our broadband.
We were with Talk Talk, but just switched over to Plus Net as i'd heard bad things about TT so switched during the 14 day period.
We get rediculously slow speeds, aparently due to us having a very long line to the exchange. However, the speeds we get are plain rediculous, we get 25 kb/s download speeds...MAX!
This is horrible for me, as I am a software engineer and general geek, so I obviously make a lot of use out of our internet connection. We can't get Virgin Media in our area, as they either didn't have the hindsight, didn't know, or didn't think it worth the cost to cable our area when all the new houses were being built, so that option is out of the window :-(
Very frustrating as I know the closest road to us not part of the new development can get get up to 30 meg broadband, as opposed to our 270 odd K ADSL.
It seems a combination of long line, and cheap materials used by BT are the cause of the slow speed. Are we doomed to slow speeds until Virgin Media cable our area? Or is there anything realistic we can do?
All the other homeowners here have the same problem, and we are trying to get together to somehow convince Virgin Media it's worth cabling the area (If that's even possible at this stage).
Both technical, and non-technical people are frustrated by the speeds, streaming anything from YouTube, iPlayer or anything like that is a no-go, reasonable size downloads take forever, it's really not that much faster than Dialup was, I remember getting 3.5 kb/s speeds back in 1997!
With all the talk and advertisement you see for up to 50Meg speeds in some parts of the country, and with me never getting lower than 4Meg speeds (That was in the city centre and max speed!) I never realised there are still parts of non-rural areas where people genuinely have problems with broadband. It seems getting the entire country onto decent speed broadband is either never going to happen, or will take another 10 years if in some areas we are now only getting speeds around 6-7 times faster than we were 14 years ago.
Any answer to the problem, or just pray that one day Virgin Media cable the area? Because if BT have used the cheapest wiring possible now, on brand new properties then I don't see them doing any upgrade works in the next 10 years.
2 properties ago I was on 20Meg Virgin Media with reliable speeds, and that was in a much less populated part of the country. Really hoping they decide to do it at some point, they would clean up in this area because everybody is ready to switch to them.
Not sure where you've got this idea from fella ?? BT's infrastructure has been in place for over a hundred years, and is (nowadays) mostly made up of copper and aliminium cables. The market prices dictated what cable was used over the decades.
The cables that were 'put in the ground' back then, were not designed for up to 2.2Mhz frequencies being pumped down them. They were designed and implemented to accomodate the low-end frequency scale. If hindsight ever became foresight, I'm sure they'd have invented Fibre-Optics a lot sooner.
The cable that goes into the ground today isn't just any old cheap stuff, and I don't know if you are aware, but copper is worth a kings ransom on todays markets ?. The cable also has to satisfy certain criteria as to 'twists per metre' to eliminate induction and radiation.
FTTC is an ongoing process that is being rolled out across the country. You might want to check the 'Infinity' website ??. Your comment about Virgin cabling up your area ...... forget it, won't ever, ever happen. NTL (as they were) only cabled in high-volume areas in order to recoup their initial outlay.
With new-build properties, I find the problem is 90% with the way the builder/electrician has wired the internal sockets up. I speak from 25yrs of experience, not guesswork.
I'd personally follow advice from those posting above me to try and get to the bottom of your problem. There are things that can be done to get quicker speeds.
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Hi
quote we get 25 kb/s download speeds...MAX!
quote DSL Line Speed
Up: 443 kbps Down: 207 kbps
You may have a low synch rate ,It may be that your distance from the exchange is the cause .However if the distance was that bad I am surprised that you still synch at 443Kbps US
As a matter of interest where did you get your DL speed from ?, Speed testers or actual downloads as actual downloads normally report in KBytes ,rather than Kbits
Regards Jeff
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One other question that I failed to ask earlier --
Who provides your telephone service? PlusNet or BT?
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Hi,
Sorry for the late response, and thanks to everybody who has commented.
Before answering the questions i'll just update you that I switched to a Plusnet provided router and have been able to occasionally get download speeds of 40kb/s, such as when download Lync and .NET 4 Standalone installer from the Microsoft site (Already have these but usually it's a good site for providing files at decent speeds)
@burakkucat - I have tried with the Talk Talk Huawei router, and a Thompson one provided from Plusnet, haven't had a chance to buy anything else yet, as we had Sky in the last place, we used the Sky router as it wasn't terrible and I think technically at least, with Sky it's in the terms to use their router anyway.
I can't see anywhere to change to ADSL1, but will have another look on both tonight. If anybody has either of these routers please let me know. I'd like to try it and if it improves things inform the other homeowners in the area, as I know people keep raising it as an issue on a monthly basis.
It's Plusnet who provide the phone service, prior to that it was Talk Talk.
@razpag, I admit i'm no expert on phone lines etc, and much of that was a rant, just never thought people had these problems these days as i've always been lucky enough to get above roughly 4 Meg in the past. Didn't realise people in the UK in non-rural areas were living in "Broadband Poverty" as some may say.
If I could somehow get evidence that the wiring in the houses is causing a problem, we could probably get together than try to get the wiring repaired under a warranty or something (If we were lucky), but I don't know how we can get it checked without going into the walls.
I don't have the knowledge or equipment to fully check all the wiring in the house, and we do have an External NTE so unfortunately no BT test socket to try. I have questioned in my mind that it could be a wiring issue, and if the same person wired up most of the houses then that could explain the consistent problem.
Is there anything you could recommend that anybody can try at home, or what I would need to specifically ask an expert to check? - When we were having problems Talk Talk sent out a Broadband Engineer (CUBE engineer or something I think he referred to himself as), but he said from what he could see at the sockets the wiring looked good, but that we should think about looking into that if there's no other solution.
Whenever i've called any provider to get an estimated speed when we were looking to setup the broadband they all commented on us being a long way from the exchange. I accept that though and would be happy if we could even hit 2Meg or close to it.
@jeffbb - I used a few "speed checker" sites such as ZDNet broadband checker and a few others, which I know aren't 100% accurate.
I know Virgin/NTL really probably won't cable into the area, but it's so unlucky that people literally 50 yards from where the new housing development starts can get 30Meg speeds (Virgins quote) according to their site if you put in the address of the nearest house not part of the development.
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Hi
The CUBE engineer (or whatever they call themselves) are a 'First look' engineer. In other words, not very good.
I would, as soon as you've read this post, ring your ISP and ask to have an SFI Broadband Task raised. This will mean an Openreach Broadband engineer will atend site and if he's worth his salt, there's lots he can do and suggest to get you the best speeds possible.
Seriously, we could talk till the cows come home but an SFI is what's needed. Do it. ;D
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Thanks I will call them tomorrow to try and get somebody to come out.
Hopefully there won't be too much of a charge but it's got to be better than just hoping it improves.
I'd be happy with a consistent 1 - 1.5 meg connection even to be honest.
Cheers for all the help.
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Just wanted to check something.
I went onto the BT Infinity website, and looked up the North West on the map, and the exchange we are apparently on is already supporting Infinity, does it depend on other things as well as the exchange being ready? Do they need to install cabinets around the area and/or new Fibre etc?
As I know for sure Infinity isn't available, i'm guessing there's more to it than just the exchange supporting it? If we ever get it in the future will there be a need for new wiring in the area?
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I second what b*cat said - if your router has the capability, you may well find that you get better performance in ADSL1 mode (G.Dmt). But with such a long line you shouldn't set your expectations too high - as the upstream attenuation is 45 dB, it's quite probable that the true downstream attenuation is a lot more than 63.5 dB.
And as mentioned, it would be a good idea to check out your internal wiring very carefully, to try to eliminate every possible cause of non-optimal performance.
The wiring looks like it was done by the electrician who wired up the rest of the house, i've heard a lot of the time they do things wrong when they try and do telephone wiring.
One of the wires wasn't even connected at the second socket, stopping all the extensions except the first one from working.
I connected the wire and now all but 1 of the 5 sockets are active and getting a dial tone.
I think I am going to (after following some advice from walter), cut the ringwire at the external NTE, disconnect the ringwire at each socket.
After that I was thinking about just keeping the first socket wired up (The first extension after the XNTE), as we don't really need the other sockets to be active. Surely hoping that will cut down any other possible issues with the wiring...The wiring from the XNTE to the first socket should be short, and hopefully less likely to have any problems, extending to 4 other sockets all around the house (1 of which is still not working) can't be a good idea for healthy ADSL.
Ringwire shall be disconnected this evening, according to
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm
It's not usually connected at the XNTE, although ours is, and i'd assume all our neighbours too...Would this be wired up by Openreach, or the electrician, it's technically on our side of the wiring where it connects (To the right of the yellow plug)
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@ Daniel,
Whilst I admit to writing the words it's all here on this splendid site !
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm
Having done it many times before for various folk, I am reasonably confident that you will see some improvement.
(My latest horror story was on a line of 131 m from the exchange in another local village which achieved a magnificent 130 kbps download and afterwards runs very nicely on full whack.)
Kind regards,
Walter
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It's not usually connected at the XNTE, although ours is, and i'd assume all our neighbours too...Would this be wired up by Openreach, or the electrician, it's technically on our side of the wiring where it connects (To the right of the yellow plug)
@Daniel -- I would suspect the electrician has just followed the "Builders' Guide" document.
Now having read more about your substandard wiring, I would remove the very first socket and -- if it looks suspect -- the cable between it and the XNTE, then replace with a generic NTE5/A (manufactured by Pressac and available from Clarity or Solwise or Run It Direct, etc) and CW1308 specification cable. At your new internal NTE5/A, fit an NTE2000 -- the SSF, ADSL V1.0 integral Filter (again, Pressac manufacture, available via the same retailers, above). If at some time in the future you would like to have a working telephone extension socket, you would connect the builder's electrician provided wiring to IDCs 2 & 5 of your NTE2000.
Finally, I have replied to your PM. Not much help there. Sorry. :no:
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Hi guys,
Thanks again to everybody so far for all their help. Hopefully I can repay the favour in some way in the future.
I disconnected the Ring Wire at the External NTE, and at each of the 5 sockets in the house.
The sync speed has improved (3x the number it was before)...As I understand it, it may take 3 days of leaving the router on for us to start seeing an actual speed gain with downloads etc? Is this right? We are with Plus Net if that makes a difference.
Hopefully I haven't gotten too excited too soon, but it's gone from around 270-370 (Average), to around 1,200 (Which it is showing now).
So here's hoping we can atleast get 1 Meg throughput. Sounds silly but i'd be quite happy with that (For now), considering we have been on such a slow speed. With our high Line Attenuation I think 1 Meg would be close to the best we can expect on the current service.
I can't believe that 1 wire may make that much difference. I'm sure there are still improvements to be made to the wiring, such as those mentioned by numerous people including burakkuat and walter.
New stats are below:
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 588 / 1,248
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 1,272
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 15.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 42.5 / 67.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 11.5 / 6.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 6
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 6
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I tend to find around my patch on new-builds, that the 'sparkies' run a cable to a 'common-point' (an inaccessible junction box under the boards), and then tee-out in all directions from this point. As a result, there is no direct cable from the outside 'Master box' to any single socket ergo hefty drops in speed.
My advice (again), is to get us out, we can then test at the outside box, and test again on the internal sockets and make a judgement call about the internal wiring. Anything other than this is guesswork.
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Great result (you posted as I was typing). The difference with that one single wire is, it imbalances the circuit and acts like an antennae for high-frequency 'noise' that combats your signal.
There could be lots more improvements to be made, ie- best cable to Cabinet, locating exactly which is the Master Socket, fitting an NTE2000.
See my post above for best results. ;) ;D
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Great result (you posted as I was typing). The difference with that one single wire is, it imbalances the circuit and acts like an antennae for high-frequency 'noise' that combats your signal.
There could be lots more improvements to be made, ie- best cable to Cabinet, locating exactly which is the Master Socket, fitting an NTE2000.
See my post above for best results. ;) ;D
Thanks, definitely going to be taking all the advice on board and doing everything possible to get the best speed we can.
I *think* from what i've seen I see the route the wire takes, and thankfully seems like it does go direct from XNTE to the socket in the lounge first, but of course this is just an assumption at this point.
I've tried to explain below how I think it is wired, but it's not that easy to follow on a forum I know, especially with my amateur way of explaining it. Luckily we may not be in that situation where it goes to an inaccessible junction box, if it did then i'd assume that each socket would just have 1 "set" of wires coming into it. Looks like in our house they daisychain.
Which I reckon will make it easier to disconnect all but the first one.
XNTE => Lounge Socket (1 b/w in, 1 b/w out - 1 w/b in, 1 w/b out) => Bedroom right above (1 b/w in, 2 b/w out - 1 w/b in, 2 w/b out)
From here it seems the bedroom feeds one of it's "outward sets" of wires along to the hallway, which just has 1 of each cable and is the end of that branch
The other "outward set" of wires then goes to the smallest bedroom, which has 2 sockets. One of the sockets has 2 sets of wires (1 inward, 1 outward), the second socket in that bedroom just has 1 set of wires, and there that branch terminates.
I noticed the sync speed seems really solid now, before I would refresh and the sync speed would change every few seconds. Now every time I look at the DSL page it shows a solid number that doesn't seem to be moving. That's got to help too :)
I'll update here with any progress, just incase anybody else has problems too.
If this works i'll be getting in touch with all our neighbours just to let them know what I did, of course I don't want to take any responsibility for the advice, incase they end up doing something wrong :)
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I appreciate you trying to explain how it's wired Dan, but how can you tell ?? Are the wires not chased into the wall (ie- plastered over) ???
Ideally though, just the one socket working is deffo the way forward.
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I appreciate you trying to explain how it's wired Dan, but how can you tell ?? Are the wires not chased into the wall (ie- plastered over) ???
Ideally though, just the one socket working is deffo the way forward.
They are all in the wall, only reason I came to this conclusion was that originally only the first socket was working, all the others needed wiring connecting properly, as I connected the bedroom one the one in the hall and 1 in the small bedroom started working (the one with 2 sets of wires).
The last socket in the small bedroom only worked after I reconnected a loose wire in the socket next to it.
So really it's based on assumption, but i'd like to try and find out for sure at some point.
Because after I re-attached a wire in the bedroom some others started working, I just assumed (hoped) it's all daisy chained.
I'm no pro that's for sure though
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Hi
quote .As I understand it, it may take 3 days of leaving the router on for us to start seeing an actual speed gain with downloads etc? Is this right? We are with Plus Net if that makes a difference.
Well in a few days your IP profile will increase to 1000Kbps . The time it takes is variable see
IP profile (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm) information
That should also improve your downloads :)
Regards Jeff
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I appreciate you trying to explain how it's wired Dan, but how can you tell ?? Are the wires not chased into the wall (ie- plastered over) ???
Ideally though, just the one socket working is deffo the way forward.
They are all in the wall, only reason I came to this conclusion was that originally only the first socket was working, all the others needed wiring connecting properly, as I connected the bedroom one the one in the hall and 1 in the small bedroom started working (the one with 2 sets of wires).
The last socket in the small bedroom only worked after I reconnected a loose wire in the socket next to it.
So really it's based on assumption, but i'd like to try and find out for sure at some point.
Because after I re-attached a wire in the bedroom some others started working, I just assumed (hoped) it's all daisy chained.
I'm no pro that's for sure though
Fair play Dan, it does indeed sound like the lounge is your first socket. What needs to be done now is to make this a proper Master Socket with an NTE5, and then have an NTE2000 SSFP fitted.
This goes gainst every rule laid down regarding xNTE's, as the wiring is wholly your concern, but it's the only way to acieve 'best results'. Maybe you can locally purchase a type of NTE5 and acquire your own SSFP and fit them yourself ??? Just a thought pal.
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Gentlefolk,
We've had a discussion a long time ago here about the lack of an internal test socket on a XNTE service unless an NTE5 type device is fitted.
Noting that Dan has a poor signal might it be a good idea to remove the NTE5 duplicated components in effect producing a "slave" NTE5 ?
I'm assuming the BT components or similar are fitted in the XNTE.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi guys,
We are now getting a consistent 128 kb/s download speed, and able to stream non-hd videos on youtube without pausing and waiting 20 minutes for a 1 minute video to load :)
May sound silly but i'm very happy with the improvement. We were getting a very flaky 25-40 kb/s previously, and the DSL Sync speed seemed to change everytime I refreshed the page. Now it's looking solid and fixed.
I think this may be close to the best we can expect on this line and the current service, as our Line Attenuation is 67.5 at the moment, which according to the calculator means around 1 Meg - 1.5 Meg is about what we can expect.
I'll monitor it for about a week then look into implementing some of the other suggestions to possibly further increase the line.
Also investigating FTTC as an option, trying to find out which PCP our property connects to as the next street along seems to be connected one with FTTC as an option. We are in a new area, and perhaps our postcode not being in the databases makes companies think this isn't an option.
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Sorry to be a pedant, but I guess you mean 128 kB/s (kilobytes per second). This is consistent with an IP profile of 1000 kb/s (allowing for small errors in measurement) and is a pretty good result on your long line. There may be a bit more to be squeezed out, but for the moment you're doing the right thing in just monitoring it for a bit.
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Sorry to be a pedant, but I guess you mean 128 kB/s (kilobytes per second). This is consistent with an IP profile of 1000 kb/s (allowing for small errors in measurement) and is a pretty good result on your long line. There may be a bit more to be squeezed out, but for the moment you're doing the right thing in just monitoring it for a bit.
Yep, that's what I meant :)
It's annoying being on such a long line, but I guess next time we buy a house we may just have to look beforehand at what's available.
I'm still gob smacked that removing that 'Ring Wire' actually had such a big effect on it.
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Noting that Dan has a poor signal might it be a good idea to remove the NTE5 duplicated components in effect producing a "slave" NTE5 ?
I'm assuming the BT components or similar are fitted in the XNTE.
If I was in Dan's situation then, for testing purposes, I would make up two springy brass strips, connect them to a spare LJ2/3A and plug the strips into the network side of the yellow plug's receptacle in the XNTE. I would then connect a 2Wire 2700HGV to the LJ2/3A and leave it to synchronise. Once in sync with the DSLAM, I'd document the line characteristics -- thereby establishing base-line data for his pair.
@Walter,
Yes the XNTE does contain identical components to an NTE5/A -- capacitor, resistor and surge suppressor. So being a perfectionist, one would remove the duplicates from the NTE5/A.
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@ BKK,
I suggest it's not just a matter of being a perfectionist but more of prudent engineering as, in this case, there is a distinct possibility that the A & B legs are swapped inside the house.
Even if this were not the case, I suggest adding unnecessary components to a line with an already poor signal is best avoided.
@ RP Can you please confirm that an XNTE does contain identical components to those in a NTE5/A ?
(Apologies to Paul in hijacking his thread for these comments.)
Kind regards,
Walter
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As we don't fault to component level, I wouldn't know for sure Walter ?
A far as I am aware, surge supressor (gas discharge tube) is now located in the exchange, as opposed to the NTE5. Again, I'm not sure at all, but would hazard a guess that the capacitor and resistor still found in the internal NTE's, is also present in the external ones ?
Maybe Ezzer has more knowledge on this, or anybody else for that matter ??
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There would ideally be some sort of surge protection at both ends of the line. The one at the exchange end must presumably be one of very high performance, to protect the exchange under the most extreme circumstances. The one at the user's end predates broadband and was probably designed only to give some protection to telephones, at minimal cost of course. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't one at all now with the XNTE, and if I had one of these I would connect it directly to an NTE5 internally for the small extra protection it provides, and also for the convenience of the test socket.
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Seems it's now a '26A overvoltage protection' device.
http://www.presscomm.co.uk/pdf/DS043-External%20NTE.pdf
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Great link 4candles.
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Yes, really useful, thanks.
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Aye, cheers. I was quite surprised to find it, as it didn't appear when I last tried to find info on the XNTE a while ago.
Firefox tells me the page was modified on 14 Jan 2011.
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Aye, cheers. I was quite surprised to find it, as it didn't appear when I last tried to find info on the XNTE a while ago.
Firefox tells me the page was modified on 14 Jan 2011.
I knew I had seen that information, hence my earlier posting. Thanks for providing the reminder, as I couldn't lay my paws on an explicit reference. For any OR device specification, it is always worth checking the Pressac website (http://www.presscomm.co.uk/). In particular, the downloads page (http://www.presscomm.co.uk/Downloads.aspx) is a valuable resource.
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I double checked the wires in the External NTE and the sockets.
In the XNTE. White w/ Blue is in 2, and Blue w/ White is in 5.
In the sockets. White w/ Blue is in 5, and Blue w/ White is in 2.
As you can see they are not going into the same terminals, would it be highly recommended for me to remove the wires in the sockets, then put them into the matching number with an IDC tool??
Or would wiring these into matching terminals not really help?
As mentioned I may just disconnect the additional sockets if I re-wire too.
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Hi Dan,
The external NTE is following the usual convention so if you are making any internal changes it is sensible to swap them round inside.
I would certainly disconnect all the other internal sockets to be begin with and run your service like that for a week or so.
If you then want to reinstate any sockets you have a good reference record.
This might seem rather pedantic but it is following RP's advice to disconnect unwanted extension sockets.
Kind regards,
Walter
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@Walter. The correct pair colouring is green, blue and orange. In other words:
IDC Colour
1 Green/white stripe
2 Blue/white stripe
3 Orange/white stripe
4 White/orange stripe
5 While/blue stripe
6 White/green stripe
So it is within Dan's XNTE that the blue pair are incorrectly connected. Of course they could be connected that way because the A- & B-wires have been incorrectly terminated under the "red cover". I really need to DVM probe inside that XNTE! ::)
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@Walter. The correct pair colouring is green, blue and orange. In other words:
IDC Colour
1 Green/white stripe
2 Blue/white stripe
3 Orange/white stripe
4 White/orange stripe
5 While/blue stripe
6 White/green stripe
So it is within Dan's XNTE that the blue pair are incorrectly connected. Of course they could be connected that way because the A- & B-wires have been incorrectly terminated under the "red cover". I really need to DVM probe inside that XNTE! ::)
Would an OpenReach callout via my ISP confirm what is happening under the red cover?
Even if under the "red cover" it's the wrong way, shouldn't the internal wiring terminals match whats in the External NTE in terms of numbers/colours?
I.E Should the wire in 2 in the XNTE be the same wire in 2 in the terminals on the sockets?
I have an IDC tool coming tomorrow so I can make changes if necessaray. I will also be disconnecting other sockets other than the 1st one when I have the tool int he next day or two.
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@Walter. The correct pair colouring is green, blue and orange. In other words:
IDC Colour
1 Green/white stripe
2 Blue/white stripe
3 Orange/white stripe
4 White/orange stripe
5 While/blue stripe
6 White/green stripe
So it is within Dan's XNTE that the blue pair are incorrectly connected. Of course they could be connected that way because the A- & B-wires have been incorrectly terminated under the "red cover". I really need to DVM probe inside that XNTE! ::)
B*Cat is correct. :)
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@Walter. The correct pair colouring is green, blue and orange. In other words:
IDC Colour
1 Green/white stripe
2 Blue/white stripe
3 Orange/white stripe
4 White/orange stripe
5 While/blue stripe
6 White/green stripe
So it is within Dan's XNTE that the blue pair are incorrectly connected. Of course they could be connected that way because the A- & B-wires have been incorrectly terminated under the "red cover". I really need to DVM probe inside that XNTE! ::)
B*Cat is correct. :)
Should the terminals in the internal sockets always match wire colour-terminal combination with those in the External NTE?
Are the blue/w and White/b any different other than their colour?
Basically is it worth me when I disconnect the additional sockets switching over the wires on the first socket so they match the colour-terminal combination that the XNTE is wired as?
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Should the terminals in the internal sockets always match wire colour-terminal combination with those in the External NTE?
No.
Just make sure that you use a pair for 2/5 e.g. white/orange and orange/white.
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Should the terminals in the internal sockets always match wire colour-terminal combination with those in the External NTE?
No.
Just make sure that you use a pair for 2/5 e.g. white/orange and orange/white.
OK thanks.
Next thing i'll do is disconnect the additional sockets so we are just running off the 1. I'll leave the wiring going to the same terminals they are now, but just disconnect the second pair that passes on to the next faceplate upstairs.
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Essentially, Dan, you should ensure that:
IDC2 is connected to IDC2, to IDC2, to IDC2, . . .
IDC5 is connected to IDC5, to IDC5, to IDC5, . . .
and no others are connected. The wire colours used does not matter, as long you use one twisted pair (i.e. the green pair or the blue pair of the orange pair, otherwise you will suffer from the effect of "split legs") and that the cable is CW1308 specification. To avoid future confusion, it would be best practice to use the blue pair (b/w to IDC2 & w/b to IDC5).
If in doubt, just continue as you have been doing and ask the question. Pictures of any problem area would also be appreciated. ;)