Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: 2pods on August 05, 2011, 07:03:34 PM
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I've been with Zen for about 5 or 6 years, and have been very happy. However, just before our exchange was due for 21N conversion, I had a few drops but nothing to worry about. Post conversion I had to buy a new router (as my old Draytek wasn't adsl2+ compatible), so I bought a Netgear DGN2200. which synced OK, ran OK, but then came the drops. (incidentally my snr was around 3.0), did the usual checks, phoned Zen who said try different filters (yes), different cables (yes), and a different router (first I tried a TP Link, which gave me a higher sync of 16001, but with a NM of 0.8 !).
Replugged Netgear back in syncing at 15248kbps with margins between 3.1 and 4.6. There were more disconnections, but everything stayed the more or less the same . After phoning Zen, I plugged into the test socket as advised and achieved 17326 kbps with 3.2db (this was with a ten foot RJ45 cable, which Zen have deemed unsuitable.).
Anyway, I had to try one more router according to Zen, then they would involve BT.
So on with the Belkin. Sync was @ 15326Kb with 8db NM and still drops. After phoning I was treated to a lot of stuff. Most of which I knew, but generally saying the same stuff as before, but refusing to acknowledge that the line had had periods of stability before lumping a great big dod of 12db SNR on it !
It could be the socket I use in an upstairs room, but there were drops even when I was plugged into it via the long cable.
For anyone I haven't bored to death yet, The line comes in by the front door, goes into a lozenge shaped box, comes out as a skinnier cable than even the disreputable RJ45 cable, thence to the master socket...which has an iPlate fitted which is good.....but has my upstairs connection wired into it by BT because I had an Home Hiway box up here. So if it's this that's causing the trouble, I don't think I'm allowed to touch the master socket anyway (though I did have to fix the cable between the lozenge boxes a few years ago, as it had come away).
So would somebody put me out of my misery and have a look at these extracts from the routers' (note plural) logs. If not it's OK, at least I had a rant.
Ta,
Peter
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hello Peter,
Another sorry tale. :(
I yet haven't read your attachment to the post but as you are aware (I'm sure :) ) that a picture is worth a thousand words, please photograph both the exterior and interior of: (1) the lozenge shaped box (2) the NTE5/A (master socket) (3) the upstairs extension socket and then display them in this thread.
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Hi
My first thoughts are that the SNR margin was lower than normal ? expect to normally be about 6db.
Also concerned that
quote After phoning Zen, I plugged into the test socket as advised and achieved 17326 kbps with 3.2db (this was with a ten foot RJ45 cable, which have deemed unsuitable.).
This significantly better synch rate even with 10ft RJ45 cable . I suggest that its worth checking your internal connections
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm
Can you also run Routerstats,to be found at http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm a very usefull trouble shooting tool!
If you router/routers are compatible then run some graphs SNR margin /synch rate for a few hours and post here.
Personaly I would stick to one router during trouble shooting . You have shown the problem with all of them.
Regards Jeff
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Welcome to the wonderful world of 21CN !!!
Unfortunately, 21CN (due to being double the frequency bandwidth of 20CN) is a far more unstable circuit than that which is 20CN. Problems you won't have had before will come brimming to the surface due to much more 'noise' on the bandwidth.
You can A) Try a self-fix, by getting co-op from the most knowledgable broadband forum around (No, not DSL Zone --- I mean this one ;D). Or, B) Ask your Service Provider to raise an SFI task for an Openreach engineer to visit to bring your installation up to the standard required to carry 21CN products. You may also get a SSFP fitted as well, which are far better than the i-plate imo.
I personally attend roughly 3 SFI tasks on a daily basis, on a fair-sized urban-rural patch. I can generally get an increase in speed and provide enhanced stability by visiting the premises, and/or performing Network Enhancing duties between the exchange and the EU's house. All SP's are aware that the switch from PSTN/Fixed-Rate DSL/20CN DSL to 21CN DSL brings with it it's problems, and creating an SFI task shouldn't be a problem. HTH. ;D
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Thanks for all the replies :)
I'll try and sort the router stats etc tomorrow,along with photos etc.
@razpag would this be my ISP, or BT ? If it's my ISP, they really don't want to know beyond sticking the 12db SNR and telling me to phone BT.
....and I know about Kitz's forum. I've been lurking a lot recently :blush:
Thanks everyone
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Yes, it would be your ISP. I'm going from memory here, which is never a good thing, but I'm sure Zen has pretty good support services from what I've read ? I would have thought raising an SFI with them should be relatively painless ? Like I say, I may have Zen mixed up with another ISP.
To add to that, I obviously don't know the contract you've entered into with them, but a bit of hinting about taking your business elsewhere may not go amiss ???? If, as you quote, you've been lurking around the periphery of this site for a while, you'll have gleaned that persistence is the key to success with all ISP's. ;D
Ring them asap. The more times you make contact, the bigger your 'file' becomes and the better chance of an SFI visit.
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Zen's support is very good. I doubt you'll need to take any extreme measures to get them motivated. :)
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And you could start with a PM to member Azzaka who is a frequent visitor here and who is a Zen staff member.
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Hi
For all that there is still the issue of better synch rate using the test facility. This does point to some internal problem.
It would be better if that could be resolved first.
Personally I have found ZEN Very good on the one occasion when I had a fault and BT needed chasing .
Regards Jeff
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Taking pics even as we speak.
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Here we go. The path is as follows. the lines enters the premises via this GPO box shaped like a lozenge
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FFirstEntrance01.jpg&hash=b57c1411f3623f05db6e9b79ba9278a449b05374)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FFirstEntrance02.jpg&hash=aa57276696246936987ad18b95acd0bc2ebd1e4d)
proceeds downwards via this wire
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FFirstEntrance03.jpg&hash=797da3bad723d09fd2d55d4875e5b2a7f9dcd4e2)
To this box
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSecondInLine01.jpg&hash=adcaae7bdfa6645ffda990afc4c498c7c5ac92ff)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSecondInLine04.jpg&hash=78e610d2319e245566f2ff18011009223e33e43a)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSecondinLine02.jpg&hash=ee4d9fa121da862611088f4a13c4afd2b06f5c75)
Goes into the master socket with iPlate
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FMasterSocket01.jpg&hash=2b56026d44ff1654ec10fdecf6670e1397670f89)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FMasterSocket04.jpg&hash=dad230af052c53c7e01b19f28487a8fac229047f)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FMasterSocket05.jpg&hash=38cc09f108f02e024522687928ab0ddcc0fdb5bc)
Coming out of the master socket via a hard wired BT extension to where they exchanged the HH box for a socket where my router is.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FTRouterExtension01.jpg&hash=be10ba7d220b96795ff92c65542b2cfd71741029)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FTRouterExtension04.jpg&hash=4d2e83912a00c977b29fa93a6b9a8924524a850e)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FTRouterExtension02.jpg&hash=7c5fc9c1a2ae42643e493a17075b4e72c8695c51)
Please excuse the socket mankiness. Mrs 2pods will be punishing me later :police:
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I can accept the condition of each socket and junction box but it might be best to dust and wipe them all over with a damp cloth before SWMBO notices and then issues you with a directive. ;)
Thank you for those pictures. They definitely help, as I can see one defect straight away. The two-pair cable (four wires) that connects the first junction box (lozenge shaped) to the second (rectangular shaped) has been connected wrongly -- currently there are "split legs". :( Notice that the blue/white and orange/white wires have been used? It should be either the blue/white and white/blue OR the orange/while and white/orange wires that are used.
Before I suggest what I would do if that was in my house, I need to ask for two further pictures please. Go back to pictures 7, 8 & 9 and you will see that unfortunately I am unable to deduce the wiring to/from the face plate. Look closely and you will see that the iPlate can be completely moved out of the way (it has a slot in its bottom surface), so you should have no trouble photographing how the wires connect to the face plate. For the other necessary picture, please unscrew the back panel of the NTE5/A from its backing box and photograph the wires connected to it. ::)
And, finally -- do you have anything else connected to your telephone line? Sky box? Alarm? Another socket that you haven't yet mentioned?
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"split legs"
Indeed, but for how far? The pics suggest ony a few feet which wouldn't really matter.
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The pics suggest ony a few feet which wouldn't really matter.
b*cat (a perfectionist) gives a long meaningful stare in HPs direction. According to a certain supermarket's slogan: "Every little helps." :P
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Perhaps what concerns me more is that the incorrect wiring demonstrated strongly suggests that the perpetrator did not have much experience with telephony wiring.
My question is how much more of a birdsnest is there lurking around the property ?
Kind regards,
Walter
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Please not B*Cat states 'Slightly damp' cloth when wiping dusty sockets down. The ammount of socket changes I've carried out because the EU's have decided to 'wash' the sockets, are uncountable. Same with wallpaper stripping using the steamer tool. Easy fixes for us, lots of cash paid out by the EU. Easily avoidable as well.
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b*cat (a perfectionist)
Indeed. :D
Interestingly the next connector block along then continues with old "solid-color" wiring which does appear to be correct, using Blue and Orange.
This suggests that the "perpetrator" (lovely word) has maybe rerouted the incoming cable for some reason (damage, redecoration?) using a section of newer "striped" 4-core - incorrectly.
Edit: In fact that block looks like a variant of a BT80A which would normally be where the incoming cable is joined to the internal wiring, so I guess that incoming cable has been rerouted, but not "to GPO or BT standards" >:D
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AFAIK this was the state of play when we moved in 14 years ago, and all that has changed is the master socket, router extension (converted from HH box), and the iPlate.
I'll get the required pics tonight, or tomorrow.
Again thanks for everyones' help :)
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Apologies for the lack of new photos. For some reason the line (I'll jinx it now !) has been solid for 2 days 20:51:01 at a sync 13267 kbps with a SNR of 5.8 db - 6.0 db on a 29.00db.
I'm wondering how to get to the back socket without unplugging the router and undoing the past two days good work ?
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I'm wondering how to get to the back socket without unplugging the router and undoing the past two days good work ?
Perhaps it would be best to wait for an appropriate moment when the line has "misbehaved"? You can always come back to this thread at some time in the future and we can "pick up" from where we "left off" . . . :)
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Oh, I forgot.
I was asked what else was connected at the master socket. That splitter in the pic has a alarm box which used to alert my phone if it was triggered, and the other side of the splitter goes to a "True Call" box (which AFAIK has a modem in it), then into the phone whose various handsets are cordless.
I'm still on a adsl11000 ip profile, so I assume if it doesn't go up in the next five days, there problem still needs to be sorted ?
Again thanks everyone.
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Hi 2pods,
Do make sure that EVERYTHING is connected appropriately via filters. If you have a filtered master socket then all should be well, but given your complex wiring it might be worth a quick check.
Kind regards,
Walter
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I've got one filter on the splitter coming out of the mastersocket for the "True Call" and Alarm. There is nothing else plugged in except the router in the upstairs socket, which has a filter.
Should individual items be filtered ?
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Hi Peter,
It's not normally necessary to have individual filters except possibly for those with Sky boxes at one stage. They were prone to cause problems so many used to double-filter them using two filters in series.
Your upstairs filter with the black RJ11 modem lead just might be one of the poorer quality ones. I would swap it for a standard dongle box one as you have downstairs.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Thanks Walter
Hopefully I'll be ordering two ADSL Nation filters later today.
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Filters still haven't arrived, but after being connected for 8 days 21:48:58 Monday 15th Aug, 2011 @ 13267 kbps, My SNR seems to have dropped at sometime today, to 3.5 db from a fairly steady 6.00-5.9db all week.
So I can probably expect disconnects later
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As it was down anyway, I used it to my advantage to take further pics. There are unattached wires in there (though maybe they're just not needed), and I can invoke a line drop by pushing the socket slightly. Anyway here are the Master Socket photos.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSMasterSocketInside01.jpg&hash=ff88cf1389920eeec0f40122d0421ab8b83d3c00)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSMasterSocketInside02.jpg&hash=4ed3a175b439ce012b175b06fe15b82581a0669f)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSMasterSocketInside03.jpg&hash=530208bededfc2fbc8a94f3e7d0608f84b8bdd49)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSMasterSocketInside04.jpg&hash=fb870cca818e78f1e8831b48ae7c56265f3ead79)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSMasterSocketInside05.jpg&hash=8945f79bebe490e3915ad826fc154cf7fa459ce4)
If they're a bit blurry, it's because I had to turn the flash off, as it was bleaching everything out. Sorry.
As usual, thanks to everyone
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See the orange and brown wires on terminal 3 of the front plate ??? Take them off mate. Job done. ;)
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What are they used for, and why are they attatched ?
Me being a BT wiring virgin :-[
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They are a 'bell-shunt', used to make your phone ring in days of yore. They act like a large antennae to attract 'noise' as they imbalance the circuit. Just remove them. ;D
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See the orange and brown wires on terminal 3 of the front plate ??? Take them off mate. Job done. ;)
I'd certainly do that but there may be other problems.
How many cables (bundles of wire in an outer sheath) come into the master socket? 2 or 3 or ?
Can you describe each one EXACTLY please - how many cores, what colour codes, connected to what?
The reason is that you appear to have an inconsistent collection of old & new coloured wiring, but the photos don't show enough detail.
From what I can see it looks like:
Old wiring coming to the master BT connection (A + B)
Two separate extensions run from that, one with old wiring, one with new. Both with the bell wire connected on 3 which causes ADSL problems and is not needed for modern phones.
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@HP -- We know where the extension socket, fed by the "new-colours" cable is located. It's upstairs and a photograph of its connections was shown earlier in this thread (post no. 11).
As RP has advised, I'd remove both wires connected to IDC3 of the EU faceplate at the NTE5/A and then go upstairs to the extension socket & remove the o/w wire from IDC3 there. With the wires removed from IDC3, there is absolutely no need to refit the iPlate. ;)
Now that is a right "rat's nest" of wires from two cables but we can see that the incoming pair is via the "old-colours" cable. That cable has its brown and green coloured wires wound neatly around its outer sheath. So, logically, all the other wires originate from the newer cable. Looking back at the relevant photo in post no. 11, we can see the "new-colours" cable is actually a four-pair (8 wire) cable.
All in all, still a bit of a mystery. I wonder if there is a long-forgotten junction box somewhere in that run of "new-colours" cable . . .
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@HP -- We know where the extension socket, fed by the "new-colours" cable is located.
Well, we "think" we do. Who knows what goes on in between..... :lol:
BUT, look again at the master socket removable front faceplate. All of 2, 3 and 5 have 2 wires in, one "old" colour and one "new". ???
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Arrgh !
I'm too slow posting :'(
Thanks everyone. Would BT do anything about it, do you think ?
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@HP -- We know where the extension socket, fed by the "new-colours" cable is located.
Well, we "think" we do. Who knows what goes on in between..... :lol:
BUT, look again at the master socket removable front faceplate. All of 2, 3 and 5 have 2 wires in, one "old" colour and one "new". ???
Oops, absolutely true. :doh: b*cat goes to find a warm, sleepy spot and . . . hides!
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Would BT do anything about it, do you think ?
Not these days, no. OpenReach will certainly do something, if requested, and will also charge you around £150 for coming to do it. :(
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Say if I wanted to get back to just the master socket, and take any other stuff (extension etc) out of the equation, to start again with just my master socket. How would I go about it ?
The ADSL Nation filters have arrived, so I'm ready :lol:
I'm now on 11999 kbps with 8.3 db SNR, because I obviously had to switch the router off for my "experiments" >:D.
I can still cause a drop by pushing the master socket slightly.
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Say if I wanted to get back to just the master socket, and take any other stuff (extension etc) out of the equation, to start again with just my master socket. How would I go about it ?
If a BT engineer is attending they would probably do that for you in order to "regularise" it all, without extra charge - just ask.
It's pretty quick to do. ;)
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If a BT engineer is attending they would probably do that for you in order to "regularise" it all, without extra charge - just ask.
It's pretty quick to do.
That would be good.
Except so far Zen don't want to get BT involved, as it's the house wiring that's at fault, and keep reminding me about the £150-£250 charge.
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my upstairs connection wired into it by BT because I had an Home Hiway box up here.
That may be your get-out clause........ :-X
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That may be your get-out clause........
It didn't seem to cut much ice with the Zen person I was dealing with.
In fact, I was told it would be very easy for him to report a fault, but it would solve nothing. I should get my wiring sorted out, and it wasn't anything to do with Zen's service. (which I knew then, and know now).
In fact, now I think of it, it was quite a bad experience, with me being talked over, and eventually asking the operative to please stop, or I would hang up. He kept right on, so I did. After phoning back later to the same Zen person, I ended up asking them to reset the line, so I could try knocking it off to eliminate all the stuff he had suggested.
Sorry for the moan, but that's what brought me to this thread anyway :(
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It didn't seem to cut much ice with the Zen person I was dealing with.
I wouldn't expect it to.
More an issue to raise with your phone provider as (via Openreach) they're responsible for the basic infrastructure.
Surely it's causing problems on your line. ;)
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Do you mean my phone line that I can report a fault on ?
I tried this but the the helpline person said they did a test which was OK.
Otherwise I would have to go through Zen, and as I said, they didn't seem to want to raise it with BT.
Sorry if I seem a bit thick ???
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Right, more discoveries.
There appears to be TWO extension cables coming out of the master socket, and of course, the BT "in" cable. One very old looking, and one newish one. Both are only connected to "2" and "5"
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSAM_0512.jpg&hash=e5b2b26e9930bdfb954d8ef07c7bb415156272dd)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSAM_0513.jpg&hash=0cf4426f6e0af9e06988f5e6cb5df71dbb000ac0)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSAM_0514.jpg&hash=247d672ef2f305bea1c287a1f8317e4d572c8f7c)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSAM_0515.jpg&hash=d62ebb4cab2182abc9ac09e7737dbed10b7ed71f)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSAM_0516.jpg&hash=293f7db9d291d3f4f651399cda8517c2f7441eda)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FSAM_0517.jpg&hash=db70d95aa7d8a313775fbcdea5e66de34598b402)
I've removed the orange and brown wires at terminal three at the MS, and similar at the upstairs extension, tidied them up, fitted the covers back, and installed two AN filters. I've also removed the iPlate.
AFAIK the only extension cable in use is the "new" one. So I could disconnect the older one ?
I'm now connected at 14103 kbps, but the SNR is dropping again. I'm now have 3.1db, from 4.6db when I first reconnected. Is there anything else I should be doing ?
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Hi Peter,
1. If you don't need an extension then certainly remove those wires.
2. On the newer extension I notice that you have the white / blue lead in terminal 5 which (I believe) by convention is usually put in terminal 2. However that should not matter unless your extension socket is a master one and then only if it has reversed wires.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi Walter
I don't know if the "Modern" extension socket upstairs is a master socket or not.
I was thinking the downstairs one was the master socket ?
The only photo I have of the upstairs one isn't very good.If I use a flash, everything gets bleached. If I don't, it tends to be a bit out of focus.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw235%2F2pods%2FBT%2520Sockets%2FTRouterExtension04.jpg&hash=4d2e83912a00c977b29fa93a6b9a8924524a850e)
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Just to show that I am not (1) asleep (2) ignoring this thread ;D I'll say that I am in total agreement with Walter's advice.
For those who decide to review this entire thread, they will see that HPsauce noticed, quite a few posts back, that there were two extension cables connected into the master socket . . . something that was staring b*cat in the face but which he completely miss-observed. :-[
Ideally, that jointed "mix and match" cable run all the way from the A- and B-wire terminals of the NTE5/A to the incoming service cable (either underground or overhead drop-wire) would be replaced with one contiguous length of CW1308 specification cable and the venerable GPO 700 series terminal block replaced by a BT80B-RF3.
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Thank you everyone :)
Hopefully, I'll be phoning either Zen to arrange that visit that was mentioned, or somehow come up with a way to make Open Reach deal with me.
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Right, more discoveries.
There appears to be TWO extension cables coming out of the master socket, and of course, the BT "in" cable.
Remember my question earlier in the thread? :-X
How many cables (bundles of wire in an outer sheath) come into the master socket? 2 or 3 or ?
Can you describe each one EXACTLY please - how many cores, what colour codes, connected to what?
The reason is that you appear to have an inconsistent collection of old & new coloured wiring, but the photos don't show enough detail.
From what I can see it looks like:
Old wiring coming to the master BT connection (A + B)
Two separate extensions run from that, one with old wiring, one with new. Both with the bell wire connected on 3 which causes ADSL problems and is not needed for modern phones.
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Hi again Peter,
Mea Culpa - I had totally misread the photograph, as pointed out by RP et al below, so have deleted this section of my note.
You are not able to contact Openreach direct and must go via Zen. However I'd let things settle down after the changes are made so you can report accurately exactly the conditions that now pertain.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Walter, that 'other wire' is connected to terminal 5 mate and is definitely needed. The old 'slaves' were marked 1,2,3 down one side and 4,5,6 on the other. The wiring in this socket is the latest modern wiring and not the old style Blue/Orange that you are thinking it is mate. The Orange in the picture is the bell-wire. :)
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I'm with RP - take out the orange wire in 3, and yes it's just a slave.
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Thanks RP,
It didn't look to me that it was connected but I now see it's probably just hidden and that the wires must all be new striped ones.
It would seem Peter you should remove the orange bell wire and cut the old wires downstairs.
Incidentally it's not a good idea to use a flash camera close to any electronics as it can easily put a pulse on the wires and give the modem a severe headache !
(I found that out the hard way !)
Kind regards,
Walter
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Incidentally it's not a good idea to use a flash camera close to any electronics as it can easily put a pulse on the wires and give the modem a severe headache !
(I found that out the hard way !)
Well, that's something else I've learned ;D
Both bell wires are out at the master socket, and the new extension. I just wish I knew where the other end of the old extension is. It disappears into the skirting at the top of the hall. I think I'll wait until Mrs 2pods is out before I start messing about with the carpets...and then I've got those sockets to clean ! :D
I'll give it a week to see how I get on this time, though with a 3.2db SNR, I'm expecting drops or resyncs.
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I just wish I knew where the other end of the old extension is. It disappears into the skirting at the top of the hall. I think I'll wait until Mrs 2pods is out before I start messing about with the carpets...and then I've got those sockets to clean ! :D
I think you might guess what I'm about to type . . . Wait for SWMBO to depart on a vital mission that is not relevant to the male mind (shopping for handbags or shoes) and then disconnect the "old coloured" wiring from the EU face plate at the NTE5/A. ::)
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I'll be doing that, but I want to get under the carpet up at the landing too, and if possible the floorboards, to see where the "old" cable ends up :police:
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If you need an Openreach visit why not create an intermittent DIY fault. For instance if you get an old telephone lead, plug it in to the nte and then cut the other end, strip back the insualtion and twist the bare metal wire together you will then have no dialtone and a short circuit.
Next contact your phoneline supplier and explain that you have ongoing issues with broadband and now you have no dialtone at the test socket with no extension wiring connected. They will then test your line and instead of a line test ok result they will tell you there is a loop fault and they will pass the fault onto Openreach. You can of course remove your DIY fault when you want to use your phone or broadband but they will do several tests of the next 24 hours so make sure it always tests faulty.
When the Openreach engineer arrives before answering the door remove the fault and hide all evidence. As if by magic the fault has vanished but the Customer Service Engineer remembers the meaning of of their job title and wants to help and make sure the fault wont come back. They should first carry out a Pair Quality Test between exchange and NTE5a, ask to see the results and make sure it is a PASS. Next they should change the nte5a to an Openreach branded nte as the BT piper nte is now obsolete. Last up they should carry out a line test which should be line test ok and they are free to leave.
If they are one of the better engineers they may well replace the cable from the point of entry up to the nte after you make them a cup of tea and explain all your broadband problems. If you notice that the engineer has bawbag stamped on their forehead and are reluctant to carry out the basics highlighted above just mention that your cousins friend is a senior operations manager and they told you that an engineer should complete a pair quality test and change obsolete nte's to prove that all openreach plant is up to scratch.
Just a thought....
also if your provider changes the SNR margin by +3db at their end this may increase your snr and stabalise the sync.
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:lol:
Thanks ;D
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I also meant to add that there is no risk of being charged for the visit as a fault has been logged, which the engineer can not find so he closes the job as fault not found (non-chargeable) instead of right when tested (chargeable)
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Well, it's a week today and (touches wood), so far it's holding steady at 14103 kbps with a 6.2db SNR, which sometimes drops to about 3.1db at night. I don't know whether to give it another week before I switch the router off to remove the other cable, just to minimize the chances of my IP dropping ?
Actually, I could do with the electrics being off for a couple of hours to disconnect the power in my soon to be no more hut. What effect would that have on my sync etc ?
You would think by now that there would be some kind of "fiddling with stuff" mode that could be enaged, so BT would ignore any fluctuations on the line until it was disengaged.
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Hi
quote What effect would that have on my sync etc ?
It should not affect your Target SNR which is the main thing . As for your synch rate it will depend on when you resynch . I note your SNR margin goes down in the evening that's normal if its a gradual drop. . I would advise running RS if you can and note when you have the best SNR margin (not the lowest) . Try to time your resynch during that period .If you resynch about the time your SNR margin normally drops then you will have a lower synch Rate .
Regards Jeff
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Well, it's a week today and (touches wood), so far it's holding steady at 14103 kbps with a 6.2db SNR, which sometimes drops to about 3.1db at night.
That really looks good. A sync speed of 14103 kbs at 6.2 dB SNRM would even make a grumpy old black cat smile. :) I would expect a throughput of 10 - 12 Mbps, when you run a speedtest.
I'm agreeing with what Jeff has suggested. If you run RouterStats for a few days you will get a good idea of the typical hours-of-darkness SNRM decay your line experiences, as well as its nightly minimum. Depending upon how the graph looks, you should aim to re-boot the modem/router when the line has ~6.0 dB SNRM.
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Thanks everyone :)
I'm usually quite good with OS, programs, and the like, but I can't seem to get Router Stats to do anything except give me an error. I use my router (Netgear DGN2200) log on, and paste the router stats page in, but it doesn't do anything.
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Hi
quote use my router (Netgear DGN2200) log on, and paste the router stats page in
not sure what you mean ?
How far have you got with it . ?
Regards Jeff
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Not far, as I'm getting an error when I start recording. I don't think I'm logged in properly.
I start the program, chose "User Defined", go to the page where RS asks for the address, paste "192.168.0.1" in, then in the other field paste "RST_statistics.htm", and press the black "play" button.
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I came upon this thread waay too late unfortunately.
I was in your position, rats' nest of internal wiring. The way I fixed it was to call my phone service provider and ask them to book an engineer visit to carry out “change point of entry”. This got me a new drop cable to the other side of the house, nearest corner for the run, and the cable came straight into the house exactly where I wanted it, to a lovely shiny new NTE5a and as near as dammit zero length of house-internal wiring, no extensions and a free BT Pressac faceplate-type (SSFP) microfilter that was in the van.
So all tidied up, lovely and neat. BT Openreach man did a smart job which I was very happy to pay for.
Strongly recommend this as the stock plan, the way-to-go, is just to remember the key four-word phrase, “change point of entry”, the bypass to get over all confusion and messing about. BT knows exactly what you need and it has a price tag on it. (Nothing to do with your ISP, unless you pay them the line rental too, it's whoever you pay POTS line rental too, whoever sends you a phone bill.)
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I wish all experiences were as positive, Weaver :(
The way BT Openreach conducted my master socket move was very poor indeed, with one engineer commenting "I'm not impressed with that...".
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:'(
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Weaver: Any chance of PM-ing me the price ?
It sounds a perfect solution :)
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> Any chance of PM-ing me the price?
It was well over ten years ago, so prices will have gone up back then, but I was charged for one hour (iirc), the minimum, of Openreach goodness. Back then, it was £120 for the first hour, second hour would have been less, guessing £80, sooo long ago.
In fact, I probably had mine done when I was still on dialup.
Someone here will be able to tell you what the current Openreach charges are today.
I would thoroughly recommend it. I treated it as an upgrade to my property, because the benefits last forever, it's not just some annoying job that has been imposed on you by mysterious transient circumstances.