Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: steve7 on August 01, 2011, 08:05:04 PM
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I have a telephone wire extension upstairs with no socket attached, i have now bought a LJU2 to connect but i have searched to see where the wires go with no joy, I have a Black, Orange , Green and White wire but not sure which they push down into 1,2,3,4,5 or 6?
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Hmmm ?? Not your A-typical colour coding.
You will have to trace the wire back to where it originates from and see what colours are terminated on what terminals. TBH, you should only need two wires connecting on 2 and 5.
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Thanks i will have a look and see where they go? I just thought they went to the Master Socket?
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Thanks i will have a look and see where they go? I just thought they went to the Master Socket?
Yep, but inside the front plate of the master socket if you have the newer type. If you unscrew that front plate, you can see where each colour goes :)
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The Master Socket has A = Orange and B = White. Hope this helps?
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How many wires in each terminal?
What sort of master is it, e.g. NTE5a or not?
(orange and white are typical incoming dropwire pair colours)
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The Wires in the Master are Black, Green, which are not connected the Orange and White are connected as in photo i have attached. It's a NTE5 Socket.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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This is getting a bit pedantic maybe, but:
1. What wires, if any are connected to the removable faceplate (not BT's backplate shown in the photo)
2. Have you traced that oddly-coloured cable, that you think is a phone extension, back from where you want the new extension socket to ...... (where?)
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The Faceplate was not connected to any wires at all. The oddly coloured cable is White it looks Grey in the pic.
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It looks as though your system is wrongly wired up. If you have an NTE5 master socket, then all extensions should be wired from the back of the faceplate, not connected directly to the incoming A and B wires. What you appear to have is the remnant of some old star wiring, or just an incompetent electrician job.
This should really be tidied up before you do anything else. The incorrect extension should be disconnected from the back of the master socket. This isn't something you are supposed to do yourself, but I believe BT will charge for the work. I know what I would do, but I couldn't possibly recommend it here. :-X
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When i put a phone in the master socket it just bleeps all the time. I will need to get someone then :( ok thanks for your help.
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It looks as though your system is wrongly wired up.
Not necessarily.
The backplate looks to be wired correctly.
And we've seen no evidence of extension wiring anywhere near the master. :-X
As I asked earlier:
Have you traced that oddly-coloured cable, that you think is a phone extension, back from where you want the new extension socket to ...... (where?)
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The backplate looks to be wired correctly.
And we've seen no evidence of extension wiring anywhere near the master. :-X
Agreed. :)
When i put a phone in the master socket it just bleeps all the time.
That is peculiar. :-\
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The brown cable Is a coloured version of drop wire 10 (the current black cable you get from the pole to the property) the coloured type comes in white,cream,brown,grey. Its designed to blend in more with the outside of a building where the apperence would be a sensitive issue with a black cable.
It has no cantineries (the 3 steel wires normaly in a drop wire for strength) as its ment for just the lead-in (the lenght of drop wire thats cleated up against the building, not the bit spanning from pole to building)
Dropwire 10 has 2 pairs of wires, it based on the old concentric style of colours, 1st pair is orange/white, last pair is green/black.
(dropwire14 otherwise known as cad55 has 4 pairs, so before the green/black the 2nd pair blue/brown, next pair red/slate. in underground concentric cabling each layer starts from the centre as first pair in the layer(orange/white) then altinates between blue/brown then red/slate finishing green/black then on to the next layer starting from orange/white)
Having a 2nd pair of wires attatched to the a/b connections on an nte5 measn either its a spur feeding an alarm unit (prevents your setting the alarm off when removing your face plate to work on you extentions, the alarm stays connected to the line, and it should go into a block terminal 92a which is a bt78 but the cover has "redcare" printed on it for easy identification for an alarm fitter to id where he conects his kit to.
Or that 2nd pair goes to an extention socket, it should be connected via the front plate, so is deamed as star wiring.
If you have a working extention socket with the same number as an nte with no sign of extention wiring comming off it, then you have star wiring. In other words the extention,s wires are connected somewhere before the nte.
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The brown cable Is a coloured version of drop wire 10 (the current black cable you get from the pole to the property) the coloured type comes in white,cream,brown,grey. Its designed to blend in more with the outside of a building where the apperence would be a sensitive issue with a black cable.
It has no cantineries (the 3 steel wires normaly in a drop wire for strength) as its ment for just the lead-in (the lenght of drop wire thats cleated up against the building, not the bit spanning from pole to building)
Dropwire 10 has 2 pairs of wires, it based on the old concentric style of colours, 1st pair is orange/white, last pair is green/black.
(dropwire14 otherwise known as cad55 has 4 pairs, so before the green/black the 2nd pair blue/brown, next pair red/slate. in underground concentric cabling each layer starts from the centre as first pair in the layer(orange/white) then altinates between blue/brown then red/slate finishing green/black then on to the next layer starting from orange/white)
Having a 2nd pair of wires attatched to the a/b connections on an nte5 measn either its a spur feeding an alarm unit (prevents your setting the alarm off when removing your face plate to work on you extentions, the alarm stays connected to the line, and it should go into a block terminal 92a which is a bt78 but the cover has "redcare" printed on it for easy identification for an alarm fitter to id where he conects his kit to.
Or that 2nd pair goes to an extention socket, it should be connected via the front plate, so is deamed as star wiring.
If you have a working extention socket with the same number as an nte with no sign of extention wiring comming off it, then you have star wiring. In other words the extention,s wires are connected somewhere before the nte.
Correct Ezzer, but closer inspection of his photograph shows only one 'pair' connected.
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It looks like the extension is connected to a part outside underneath a BT cover/plastic, but i have not taken this off? Will have a another look tomorrow.
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oooh nasty. >:D
That is almost guaranteed to mess up your broadband!
Time to start again with the extension and get it wired "properly" from the master socket. :-X
You or a previous occupant didn't happen to have Sky put in the extension by any chance...... :lol:
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It looks like the extension is connected to a part outside underneath a BT cover/plastic, but i have not taken this off? Will have a another look tomorrow.
Please photograph what you find underneath the grey plastic "shroud". I suspect dust, spiders, other dead insects and gel crimps connecting the individual wires of the cables.
A few questions: (1) Does the telephone line arrive at your house underground or via a drop wire from a pole? (2) Approximately how old is your house? (3) Do you have a number of "blanked off" recessed boxes throughout the house?
I just trying to judge whether you have a classic "builder's botch" of a setup. :-\
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Here are the pics, i hope these help?
The house is about 12 years old.
There is one master socket and a another socket upstairs. (LJU2) which is what was trying to connect up.
The wiring is from underground.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Here are the pics, i hope these help?
Yes, indeed. We can see the incoming feed (the black cable) arising vertically from the small sealed duct and from the "rats-nest" of wires, joined with gel-crimps are two separate brown cables which clearly run to two separate sockets. (Or, more correctly, one socket (the NTE5/A) and the location (backing box) where an extension socket is desired to be sited.) As all of that wiring is the domain of OR, I can only say what I might do if it were my house.
However, before I type my hypothetical plan of action, we must clarify one point. Earlier you have said that "When i put a phone in the master socket it just bleeps all the time." Am I right in assuming that you currently do not use the line for a telephony service? Is it a standard wired telephone that you have plugged in? From where do you hear the bleeps? From the earpiece of the handset? Is the dial-tone audible?
Please go back to the site where you propose to have the extension socket and ensure that all the wires in that cable are separate & no bare ends are touching. Now go back outside to the "rats-nest" and spread the wires out, so that once you have taken another photograph we can clearly see which coloured wires of one cable is connected to which wires of another. My final questions, for now. Are you able to identify which one of the two brown cables supplies your existing NTE5/A ? Is it the upper cable seen to go into the wall in the first picture? Or is it the lower cable, seen to drop down and run to the right in the second picture?
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I'd guess that the "greyish" cable goes straight through the wall to the NTE5A and the browner one eventually makes its way upstairs.
A picture of the cover would be interesting as well, to see if it's a genuine BT item.
As for fixing it, I know what I'd do. :angel:
But first I'd think about getting BT round if the phone doesn't work. :-\
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I'd guess that the "greyish" cable goes straight through the wall to the NTE5A and the browner one eventually makes its way upstairs.
If I were to make a guess, that would also be my assumption. :)
A picture of the cover would be interesting as well, to see if it's a genuine BT item.
I think we will see the pre-OR, BT logo . . . ;)
As for fixing it, I know what I'd do. :angel:
I'm sure we have exactly the same idea in mind. ::)
But first I'd think about getting BT round if the phone doesn't work. :-\
Indeedy. But, even before that step is considered, answers to my previous questions will be enlightening. ;D
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I think we will see the pre-OR, BT logo . . . ;)
Maybe, but.........
The house is about 12 years old.
answers to my previous questions will be enlightening. ;D
Absolutely!
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I think we will see the pre-OR, BT logo . . . ;)
Maybe, but.........
The house is about 12 years old.
Hmm . . . BT was formed in 1981, I believe, but OR was formed in this century, hence it's newer than Steve's house! :P
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Openreach was created in 2006
:o
From their web site. Could have sworn it was much longer ago. >:D
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Sorry for delay only just got my friends pc as i am not online.
Alarm1 pic = Bt Grey cover
Alarm3 pic = Black Cable from the underground is connected to the BrownGrey cable which goes to my master socket using the Orange and White Cable. The Brown cable in the centre is from the extension upstairs which is not connected at all.
Alarm4 pic = Cable to master socket.
Alarm5 pic = Is the cable from the extension upstairs, which is not connected.
There are no "blanked off" recessed boxes throughout the house.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Excellent pictures, Steve. Now we know your situation, exactly.
However before making any change, I really need to know the answers to the questions I asked late last Wednesday --
However, before I type my hypothetical plan of action, we must clarify one point. Earlier you have said that "When i put a phone in the master socket it just bleeps all the time." Am I right in assuming that you currently do not use the line for a telephony service? Is it a standard wired telephone that you have plugged in? From where do you hear the bleeps? From the earpiece of the handset? Is the dial-tone audible?
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I think we will see the pre-OR, BT logo . . . ;)
Spot on!
I'm guessing that "someone" has tried to wire in the extension "once-upon-a-time" by feeding back through the spare pair to the outside, not exactly ideal but I guess it could work if done "correctly". However as it involves "hijacking" some of BT's cabling it's not exactly a good idea. :no:
Personally I would remove that cable to upstairs completely from the area of that grey cover, so that any visiting engineer wouln't see it - roll it back as far as possible!
Then, depending on the answer to the "unanswered question" get the phone line working properly.
Finally run a new extension upstairs; that MIGHT even be possible using that "brownish" wire as the basis, but NOT by connecting it outside. If it can be fed back in through another hole then joined correctly to the NTE5A it could work - depends on your house layout inside and will probably need a junction box (ideally inside) and short length of cable.
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The phone is not currently in use and it is a standard wired telephone that i have plugged in, the bleeps come from the handset ear piece, and there is no dial tone.
Thanks
Steve7
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What happens if you dial the number from elsewhere or a mobile?
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The phone is not currently in use and it is a standard wired telephone that i have plugged in, the bleeps come from the handset ear piece, and there is no dial tone.
Thank you for that clarification. It is almost as if we are playing a game of twenty questions but are you paying for a telephony service, Steve? If not, then you need to sign up and pay your money. ::)
As for getting the proposed extension to work, HP has read my mind and so I shall make a bow in his direction, letting him guide you through the steps you should take to achieve that aim. I will, of course, continue to follow this thread with interest. :)
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Well, thank you BK, but I may not be around much for the next few weeks, and I certainly don't want to monopolise anything, so I suggest that anyone who has anything to contribute does so as and when. ;D
Good question, it never occured to me that there could be no service being paid for..... :baby:
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I am not paying for a phone service at the moment, i am getting Sky phone and broadband installed next week and i will see how this goes before i get the upstairs connected? Or see if the engineer can wire it up on the day?
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I am not paying for a phone service at the moment, i am getting Sky phone and broadband installed next week . . .
Ah, that information certainly helps. We can therefore ignore the beeping that you have heard in the earpiece.
Or see if the engineer can wire it up on the day?
An excellent idea. Ensure that you treat the engineer well -- mugs of tea or coffee, chocolate biscuits, bacon sandwiches, etc, I'm sure you've got the idea. Choose the right moment, show her/him the extension socket you have purchased and where you would like it fitted. ;)
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I will burakkucat and see how it goes :)
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Update: I now have a working phone line and socket connected up with a little help ;) thanks for helping me out everyone :)