Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: iwish on May 12, 2011, 06:00:29 PM

Title: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 12, 2011, 06:00:29 PM
We have had an ongoing fault for a year that has been fixed for a few months now by giving us an upstream snr of 16
we have had 3 face plates fitted by bt and loads of line swaps and lift and shifts
The last engineer did a line swap that did improve the line a little but he then found that the face plate was faulty
I explained to him that the face plate was only a few weeks old and was fitted by the last engineer

We have now had an email from our ISP that bt have sent a bill for the last visit
No my dispute is that they had to do a line swap the it was them that fitted the faulty Face plate not us, and they had removed our own filter face plate "adsl nation face plate" to use the BT v 1.0 one
are we liable for the bill or is that down to BT as it was the face plate that they had installed that was faulty.
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: HPsauce on May 12, 2011, 06:20:11 PM
Was it actually an ADSLnation faceplate that was removed?
If it was, the BT engineer should have given it to you as it wasn't BT's.

If it wasn't, someone is telling porkies!  >:D
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 12, 2011, 06:44:20 PM
They gave us back our face plate but that has nothing to do with what am askin
What am saying is that they fitted a faulty face plate that caused a fault and the last engineer found this and replaced it with a working one
and now bt want to charge us.
I feel that due to the fact it was them that fitted the face plate without even asking us in the 1st place and it was later found to be faulty, We should not be charged for a call out fee
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: BritBrat on May 12, 2011, 08:42:25 PM
Ask for a copy of the engineers report and the one where the faulty plate was fitted.


I don't think you should have to pay it.

Could be a nice little earner > Fit faulty plate > customer gets problems > engineer turns up finds faulty plate > customer gets charged > plate is fitted to another customer and so it goes around and around.
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: waltergmw on May 13, 2011, 06:53:43 AM
@ BritBrat,

That is perhaps a little naughty of you !

In defence of our Openreach engineers I think you will find they have to break open a sealed bag and fit a new faceplate each time they change one.
That said, I am becoming aware of a few faulty SSFPs failing in a short time (within 1 year) which perhaps suggests a component has a shorter-than-usual operational life.
At least the bag prevents second hand plates being fitted in most cases.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: BritBrat on May 13, 2011, 08:21:11 AM
@ BritBrat,

That is perhaps a little naughty of you !


Yeah sorry, I just don't like BT but I do think they provide a very good line rental and repair service.

I always recomend BT line rental but never the phone service.

I never said they did it just that they could.
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 13, 2011, 11:10:38 AM
Yup all came from a sealed bag
But the fact it was the face plate that they installed within a few weeks should not mean i have to pay a bill does it
For instance if i repair a car for a faulty started motor and it fails again within a few weeks and they bring it back to me
I cant go charge them for a new starter and labor charge again as it was the item i fitted that had gone faulty
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: Oranged on May 13, 2011, 12:09:33 PM
Did you pay for the original faceplate that BT fitted to replace your ADSLNation ?
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 13, 2011, 02:36:38 PM
No and i never asked for it
As said i bought and Adsl nation one that works and still does and the engineer took it off and put that one on then had a lift and shift
still faults with upstream so last engineer came out and swapped d side a think and found a fault with the face plate the last engineer fitted and replaced that again
My argument is that i never paid or asked for a face plate that was not needed as i already bought a good working one
Now if it was my face plate at fault then fair enough, But it was the one he installed that failed

They installed something i did not need and it caused a fault with my adsl
so they should be liable for that
If they still insist that i pay the bill then i do intend to go with Sky for the whole deal and they can take me to court
Just a shame i will have to leave my isp that i have been happy with for years
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: Oranged on May 13, 2011, 03:24:14 PM
Based on what you have posted then I would say the charge is unacceptable and should be rejected.

If necessary, and you're certain the ADSLNation faceplate functions correctly, offer to return the BT one and refit yours.
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 13, 2011, 05:57:06 PM
They can have it back if they want as the adsl nation one was put back on a few weeks ago as we moved the router away from the face plate and into another room
The line has been fine since they last came out and continues to work fine with my face plate
I have no intention to pay the bill no matter what
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: Lord Gumble on May 13, 2011, 09:40:37 PM
We have had an ongoing fault for a year that has been fixed for a few months now by giving us an upstream snr of 16
we have had 3 face plates fitted by bt and loads of line swaps and lift and shifts

A Silly question, but if you have had a few line shifts, has anyone looked into a wet joint or a faulty cable? I know from experience that a line can be shifted to another pair on a cable and work perfectly. If this fails, a common fault normally occurs, Earth, Battery or just a noisy line. If you're constantly shifting from pair to pair to get a good, clean line then that to me says there is a problem in a cable or joint in the external network. Were any tests done to your DP when the line shifts were done, to eliminate internal faults??
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 14, 2011, 10:42:34 AM
the equipment shows not fault yet they can see the upstream SNR jump about like a mad man
The line always comes back good but they do say that the upstream has problems and could even be noise from a building or something
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 29, 2011, 05:07:59 PM
Just a small update
BT have responded with the following:

Engineer completed work on the E/D side of the cable.

From BT's findings they conclude that the charges are unjustified &
agree to waiver them.
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: roseway on May 29, 2011, 06:28:25 PM
Excellent :)
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: silversurfer44 on May 29, 2011, 07:01:47 PM
I feel you should be due some sort of compensation for all the heartache and upset you have gone through. By BT agreeing to waiver the charges and admitting they were unjustified I think you could push it here. That's just the sort of thing that gives BT its bad name.
Also that bad name then gets pushed on to the other guys that do the work and should be applauded for their efforts. The name of the subsidiary just escapes for the moment.
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: BritBrat on May 29, 2011, 10:37:48 PM
That's just the sort of thing that gives BT its bad name.

Exactly and why I always run BT down but when I do it is normally related to the internet and retail phone services, not the line rental or repair service that I have found to be very good, not perfect all the time but very good as a rule.

BT retail lost 100's of pounds from me because they wanted to charge me 4.50 for paying my bill on time, I have never paid it to this day and I could still pay my bill the same way I always did.

They keep sending me letters of offers and I bin them without even reading it.


Was it Openreach you could not recall?
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 30, 2011, 12:58:15 AM
What has peed me off is if that was someone that was some old lady or guy they would have probably dipped into what little money they have for food just to pay a bill that bt should never have sent. it looks like BT now send the bill and only decide if it was just or not if we question it.
How many have wrongly paid for work done by bt in the UK
I bet its well into the thousands upon thousands
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 30, 2011, 01:03:47 AM
the exact email
I can confirm that your request disputing the charges raised by us has
been fully investigated.

BT have responded with the following:

Engineer completed work on the E/D side of the cable.

From BT's findings they conclude that the charges are unjustified &
agree to waiver them.

are they saying they sent a bill to me without looking at what the engineer had done
if they had looked then i should not have been sent any bill at all.
or are they just saying we tried or luck to get some cash out of you and it failed, oh well better luck next time
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: burakkucat on May 30, 2011, 02:00:41 AM
The correct sequence, with regard to that bill, should have been:

(1) OR invoice your ISP.
(2) Your ISP invoices you.
(3) You reject the ISP invoice, with your details why.
(4) ISP reject the OR invoice, passing on the information you have provided.
(5) OR and ISP squabble.
(6) ISP comes back to you.
(7) You restate your case.
(8 ) ISP reiterates "No" to OR.
(9) OR checks the logs.
(10) OR apologises to your ISP.
(11) ISP apologises to you (on OR's behalf).

Legally, you are the client of your ISP (not OR) and your ISP is the client of OR. OR should only have done what its client, your ISP, asked it to do. It was in that communication channel that things went wrong.

Of course, if your ISP is BT Retail there may have been a bit of "trying it on".

A personal comment. I do not trust BT Retail or BT Wholesale to get things right. >:(

However I cannot fault the OR engineering staff -- having previously spent time talking to members of the current incarnation and also BT & GPO engineers (the previous variants). :)
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: silversurfer44 on May 30, 2011, 07:48:10 AM
@ BritBrat >> Was it Openreach you could not recall? <<

My comment was written with tongue in cheek. :)
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: iwish on May 30, 2011, 11:59:54 AM
Would it not have been better if OR just had a look at the job list before they sent a bill.
That way they would have seen that no charge was warrant and that would have been the end of it.
What am saying is some people could be paying for work that is BTs responsibility
Correct sequence should be
(1) OR read job sheet and decide at that point if i am liable for the work that was done
then so on and so on

I stand by my comment that it looks like they are trying to get cash out of you
E and D side are BTs responsibility.
so once again either they ignored the job sheet "bad management" or they are trying it on with customers now
Title: Re: Bt engineer bill
Post by: coolsnakeman on May 30, 2011, 12:38:41 PM
Hey,

Its the engineer that raises the order for a charge to the SP who then generally raises an order onto the customers account. From the very start i could of told you it was unjustified and the charge should never have been raised. New faceplate was fitted which puts it in warranty for a year and this goes faulty and they replace it for another 1 then charge you. I don't think so lol. I would have understood if it had of been a faceplate you purchased yourself and BT did not fit as this is deemed as non maintained BT equipment then your charges would of stood but if that was the case the charge should of been raised on the first call out that replace that faceplate with a faulty 1! But remember mistakes can be made and BT are willing to accept if they have made a mistake so at least your getting the charge waived.

Regards
Gary