Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: tuftedduck on February 20, 2011, 09:20:52 AM
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I wonder if some kind soul can advise.
My phone line has become snagged on a tree at point between my property and the first pole, and is now in a "V" shape parallel to the ground and as taught as a drum.
As yet there appears to be no adverse reaction on my phone or broadband connection...but I would think it is only a matter of time until problems occur.
The tree/ground owner is being unco-operative and will neither free the line nor permit me onto his land to so so.
Can I report this to BT as a line fault....if so will I face a charge from BT for freeing same.
Thank you for any comments.
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Just leave it until it is broken then inform BT who then will fix it and may charge the tree/landowner so make sure you tell BT you informed him of the issue.
Or you could let him know that should the line break due to his tree BT may bill him £100's and that may change his attitued to the situation.
Take pictures of it and note dates times you informed the owner.
Maybe you could also make a claim for loss of service. :)
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I must say I'm a bit shocked at the unco-operative response of the owner of the tree. But in any case I can't see how you could be charged for any repairs; the incoming cable is BT's responsibility, not yours, and any damage which is being done to it is not being done by you. In fact, it would be inadvisable for you to try to free the cable, even if the tree owner were to allow you to. You could cause damage, and then you would certainly be charged for repairs.
I think that you should advise BT of the situation and leave it to them. If they decide to do nothing now, that's their decision, and if damage occurs later on they will have to repair it.
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Hi TD,
You might recall our thread here:-
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,8056.msg168748.html#msg168748
I think it was the lovely Ezzer who first mentioned curtilage to me.
It suggests you also need to ensure your deeds clearly state where your boundaries are.
It's possibly a legal minefield, but you might inquire whether there are wayleaves involved anywhere.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Thank you all for your advices.
@ britbrat.......am certainly taking notes/photos. I am, however, reluctant to delay taking any action.
@ roseway...your points are well taken and undesrstood.
@ waltergmw........thank you for the link to the earlier thread. There is no doubt that the offending tree is outwith my cutilage, ( I have scrutinised my deeds ), and that the word "curtilage" will not apply to the property in question, which is a field not enclosing any buildings.
The law in Scotland on the question of way-leave/rights of way differs to that in England (putting it crudely, in Scotland anyone can go anywhere they want, even into your front garden but, of course such a "visitor" is restricted on what they can do on that property).
I will record events by note and photo, and report the situation to BT/Openreach..........and wait to see what happens.
Thank you again for taking the time and trouble to respond.
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Duck .... my advice would be to hold off reporting any kind of fault, that would mean an engineer attending site IF there is nothing wrong with your line. Believe me, if it's a 'Line tests ok' and the line is nice and quiet, the SP will be billed by us, and I'd put my house on it that they'd pass that charge on to you.
Playing Devils Advocate, the reason is, that nationwide,there must be thousands and thousands of wires routed through tree lines. Imagine the cost of replacing them just for the sheer hell of it ?. I concede that eventually fault conditions will arise, but as I say, if it's currently fault free I would leave well alone.
The 'legals' are a minefield by the way, Ive dealt with a few whilst in a covering role for my manager. We also now have 'Tree protection covers' (very tough, but flexible palstic) that we install on Dropwires wherever they come into contact with trees.
In a nutshell ...... save arguing with your neighbours, let us deal with that when the time comes to change your Dropwire. You'll also save yourself quite a bit of money as well (I think its around £55) for an engineering visit that won't alleviate you woes.
May not be what you want to hear Duck, but without splashing out cash, it's what will happen.
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PS ..... an old (but crude) method we use when working on a 'LTOK but noisy' fault, is to have one engineer listen on the EU's phone, whilst the other gives the Dropwire a few cracks with our height measuring rods. If there's a HR, Resistive short-circuit or an Earth condition, that usually finds it.
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@ razpaq .........thank you for your input, advice and help.
Having read your comments, I feel glad that I have been too lazy today to report the situation as a fault.. :oldman: :sleep:
I will leave well alone until and if something goes wrong.
Thank you again.
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You're more than welcome Duck. Wouldn't like to see anybody having to fork out £55+ just for the priveledge of somebody saying, "There's nothing wrong with your line ma'am, see you later". :)
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PS ..... I would like to point out that we (Openreach) do have people that will deal with EU queries about Line Plant. Its called a 'Line Plant Rearrangement' , and will usually involve getting a 'Survey Officer' or 'Planner' to site. For example, Duck could request a 'Carrier Pole' be sited off the DP (pole) so that her Dropwire would be routed via that instead of through the neighbours property. I've had limited dealings with this myself, and the ones I have, have seen the EU foot part of the total cost.
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I think I ought to let you know that TD is Mr Duck, not Mrs Duck... ;D
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>>>so that her Dropwire<<< :-X
:D
razpaq, thank you for the further comments, and roseway, thank you for the clarification....... ;D
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Never mind life being a learning curve ..... this here DG has a hell of an arc !!! ;D
Apologies Mr Duck, I don't know how I came to the assumption you were female ??
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You've got me thinking, how a Sir Francis Duck would've gone down in history ;D
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How could you make that mistake? :)
tufted ducks
Drakes are glossy black with white sides. Their drooping crest extends from the back of the head. Females lack the white flanks, have smaller crests and are much browner.
rspb.org.uk (http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/t/tuftedduck/videos.aspx)
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TD trundles off to change user name to tufteddrake. :D
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Quick update.
Neighbour relented yesterday after hearing the amount BT would charge to rectify problen, and has removed offending branch.
All sweetness and light again.. :clap2:
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Splendid news TD,
If only all our problems could be so amicably resolved !
Kind regards,
Walter
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Good news indeed. :thumbs:
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I thought that would change his mind. :)
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Reminds me of a dropwire that went through 18 trees and along the flow of a brook with steep embankments. So I found a better new route off another pole. Knocked on a nearby door to ask if it was their cars parked allround a pole and would they be so kind to move one. Was told in no uncertain terms (quite theatening in fact) that there would be "measures" taken if we tried to access said pole on their property. It was on common ground but turns out that this family were "known" localy and use this common ground as their personal carpark/scrapheap.
couldn't cut and draw the original cable as by now it was tightly zig-zaging through branches. So had to do an interesting bit of what could be best described as giants crochet. Using 6-9m long rods as the needle. I try to leave more slack on drop wire through trees to allow some years of tree growth before it tightly bears up again on the dw. Hadn't seen the sleeves you mentioned Razpag. Are they new over the last 12 months ?
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Hi Ezzer
Probably nearer the 2yr old mark, if my failing memory serves. ;D
I believe someone got quite a monetary award for the 'New idea', which is basically a 'cable tidy' wrap-a-round piece of flexible plastic. It is now a defect if you route a DW through trees and dont use the protection sleeves.
PS .... cheers for the laymans description on REIN on the other thread. Are you based near Manchester by any chance Ezzer ??
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Reminds me of a dropwire that went through 18 trees and along the flow of a brook with steep embankments. So I found a better new route off another pole. Knocked on a nearby door to ask if it was their cars parked allround a pole and would they be so kind to move one. Was told in no uncertain terms (quite theatening in fact) that there would be "measures" taken if we tried to access said pole on their property. It was on common ground but turns out that this family were "known" localy and use this common ground as their personal carpark/scrapheap.
couldn't cut and draw the original cable as by now it was tightly zig-zaging through branches. So had to do an interesting bit of what could be best described as giants crochet. Using 6-9m long rods as the needle. I try to leave more slack on drop wire through trees to allow some years of tree growth before it tightly bears up again on the dw. Hadn't seen the sleeves you mentioned Razpag. Are they new over the last 12 months ?
That's an inetersting attititude on the part of the land 'owner' (which i say in quotes as he's evidently not actually the owner anyway. :(
We have some BT poles on our land, as well as considerable lengths of underground ducting and junction boxes. I didn't think the wayleave agreement allows us to say 'No' if BT want access. In fact in an amergency, I think BT can just walk into the garden unannounced, without notice andwithout even our agreement. I suppose that's little consolation though, if some nasty thug of a householder is threatining to unleash the rottwielers. :o
It's probably the underground ducting that worries me most as I like planting trees. The wayleave requires me to avoid planting trees over the ducting, but I have no accurate map of the exact path that the ducting takes.
I also worry about rumoured recent changes requiring BT to share their ducts with other suppliers. By and large, I've always found the BT guys to be fully co-operative any time they needed access, and to cause minimal disruption. But I wonder if the same good manners can be expected of whatever other (potential) cowboys are granted access to these ducts!?
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@ 7LM,
I expect that BT O will insist on charging to add any further cables to their ducts, whether they actually do the work or they employ a subcontractor.
In any case I don't think anybody without code powers would be allowed anywhere near ducts etc.
Mind you that didn't stop BT installing FTTC cabinets in a conservation area of Muswell Hill and then having to move some of them when planning permission was refused.
Kind regards,
Walter