Kitz Forum
Chat => Chit Chat => Topic started by: UncleUB on February 16, 2011, 09:43:10 AM
-
Have you signed yet?
http://www.fairfueluk.com/
Today it was announced that the inflation rate has increased significantly. The Chancellor is committed to a 1p rise ON TOP OF inflation. The fuel duty rise planned for April and the surge in inflation means that the duty rise will be even worse than anticipated. The affect of this will be to add a potential 23p to a gallon of fuel in April (5p per litre).
This has to stop. Enough is enough! 30 million motorists have had their full of shouldering this increasing cost and tax burden
-
I have now, unkyUb :thumbs:
-
Yup - first time round!
Colin
-
Signed, and I've also nagged some friends to do the same.
-
Nice one . :thumbs:
It doesn't matter to MP's whether it is £2 a litre,they just claim it on expenses. :angry:
-
It's signed......
-
Signed but will it make any difference ? :(
-
Signed but will it make any difference ? :(
Think Positive and say I hope it will make a difference! :)
-
Where's the green vote gone...... :-X
(or are we all assuming climate change is a fiction and that oil will last forever?)
-
Where's the green vote gone...... :-X
(or are we all assuming climate change is a fiction and that oil will last forever?)
The green vote costs money.
You only have to look at green tariffs with energy companies
-
When green alternatives for petrol and all the other products that come from oil can make OPEC rich then the Green Vote will make headway. In the mean time It's high time the UK residents paid a fair price for fuel as does the rest of Europe.
-
The green vote costs money.
Maybe right now. ;)
In future the balance will inevitably change. :'(
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ostrichheadinsand.com%2Fimages%2Fostrich_head_in_sand.jpg&hash=fa8147e8937e54464b808631b5751f969e09b1ce)
-
I definitely count myself a green supporter. Fossil fuels are doing severe damage to the environment. But at the moment there isn't an affordable alternative for personal transport, and people have to be able to get around. The high price of petrol won't stop people buying it, because of that lack of an alternative. I signed up for the fair fuel campaign because the high price hurts those people who can least afford it.
-
We in the UK are being made to feel we are the bad guys polluting the planet.Lets face facts we are tiny dot on the planet and the pressure should be put on the big polluting countries such as China,India,and even the USA
The green option in this country is just another way of squeezing more money out of the consumer.
We would all like to be green,buy organic produce etc,but the simple fact is most people can't afford to.
-
Where's the green vote gone...... :-X
(or are we all assuming climate change is a fiction and that oil will last forever?)
I don't believe in climate change especially with the recent incident when so called climate change scientists were found out in a leaked e-mail that they delibrately spiced up the climate change forecasts !
As far as I'm concerned climate change is just an excuse to tax the (hard pressed) motorist :(
In any case, inflicting high taxation on fuel in the UK won't tackle climate change as the 2 biggest polluters are the US and China.
I know that fuel in the US is cheap but am unsure about China ?
-
When green alternatives for petrol and all the other products that come from oil can make OPEC rich then the Green Vote will make headway. In the mean time It's high time the UK residents paid a fair price for fuel as does the rest of Europe.
We pay more in the UK than most of Europe !
I wonder if the next fuel duty hike will go ahead in April ?
News on this has gone quiet :-\
If it does go ahead then it will add aprox 5p a litre as the planned rise is inflation plus 1p
This was announced in Alistair Darlings last budget last year and so is nothing to do with the coalition government although they can stop it going ahead if they want to.
-
so called climate change scientists were found out in a leaked e-mail that they delibrately spiced up the climate change forecasts !
You've been reading the Daily Mail again. :lol:
-
so called climate change scientists were found out in a leaked e-mail that they delibrately spiced up the climate change forecasts !
You've been reading the Daily Mail again. :lol:
Yes but I also read it in other papers and it was on the news as well ;)
-
Just because a few over-enthusiastic scientists decided to spice up the story, that doesn't mean that the climate change science is wrong. The overwhelming majority of climatologists are united in the belief that the earth is warming up at an unprecedented rate, and human activities are a major cause of the warm-up. There's really no doubt at all about this; the only area of doubt is in the details, such as how many years it will be before we get to the crisis point.
If we were to do nothing to scale back our carbon and other emissions, in the not very distant future the earth will suffer an environmental disaster. It won't be us who suffer it - we'll all be dead by then - but our descendants will curse us, and rightly so.
-
Fuel Prices across Europe and the USA
http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2011/january2011.pdf
*USA.......51p per litre*
-
Just because a few over-enthusiastic scientists decided to spice up the story, that doesn't mean that the climate change science is wrong.
Indeed. But if it's convenient to you to want to ignore it, any little contrary tit-bit you can cling on to will be given totally inappropriate significance. :police:
-
Oh yes, the action of those people was a gift to climate change sceptics, out of all proportion to its real significance.
-
Fuel prices in our area vary with the type of service station ....ie., supermarket, private garages, autoroute service stations. We use gasoil (diesel) and at the moment pay 1€ 28 centimes per litre (about £1.07p per litre) this is causing rumblings here !! There is a special price for lorries (but I'm not sure what it is) used for delivering foodstuffs etc ... to assist with the effect on prices. Gasoil is quite a lot cheaper than petrol. Most garages also offer the GPL (Liquid petrol gas) which is cheaper still at about 80 centimes a litre. There is also a noticeable increase in electric cars with facilities in a lot of the bigger towns and cities. Current rate of inflation here is 1.7% .
-
Doesn't seem our MP's are that bothered...Still if you can claim it all back on expenses why would you be. :angry:
http://www.fairfueluk.com/quentins_blog.php?entry_id=1298195925
-
There is also a noticeable increase in electric cars
Indeed, alternatives will surface in reponse to the inevitable rise in oil-based fuel prices. :graduate:
-
There has been a 'surge' , pun intended , ;D in solar powered energy here with extremely generous offers from the government to encourage householders. For example, solar panels on house roofs are being promoted whereby the householder can choose to have panels installed, the government pays half of the cost, average roughly 22,000 €uros . The electricity produced will be offset against their power bills, any excess being paid directly into their bank account ...... OR ....... the Government will offer a lump sum (approx 8000 Euros ) which is paid into a bank account, the same bank then arranges a credit ( loan) to the householder who then have the solar panels installed; the householder doesn't pay anything directly to the bank, the electric their installation produces is bought by EDF who send the funds to the bank to pay off the loan. Once the loan is repaid in full - 8 years average, the funds are then paid directly to the householders bank account. The solar panels replace part of the tiled roof, they don't give a detrimental look to the property, a combined survey by EDF and the Solar panel company is made obviously before any installation is agreed.
Most of the 'street lighting' (we don't have any in our rural area) but I've noticed on main roads and auto routes, are solar powered; and more recently in the Poitou region the trains have been fitted with solar panelled roofs producing the necessary power for lighting etc., within the train ...... I managed to find this is English for anyone interested ..... http://fwd4.me/w75 ......
-
If climate-change is a future threat, then why aren't the only 2 countries who could make a difference not signed up to it ?? USA and China.
-
Because it isn't affecting then enough!
-
;D ;D
-
I've a feeling I'm going to regret commenting on this one, but I'll risk it, with no offence intended to earlier comments... :)
The overwhelming majority of climatologists are united in the belief that the earth is warming up at an unprecedented rate, and human activities are a major cause of the warm-up.
It is my understanding that climatology is a relatively new qualification at most institutions and so it's reasonable to assume that many climatologists chose their careers after already developing an interest in global warming. That being the case, it's hardly surprising that they are united in the belief that global warming is 'true'. UFO-ologists are largely united in a belief that aliens are all around us, but it doesn't mean they're right.
I personally think it is right to question the warming theories, and to be open minded to the possibilities that the whole thing is a huge and very expensive mistake, and a bandwagon on which the politicians have jumped because it conveniently allows them to bring in a whole proliferation of taxes to 'save the planet'.
Maybe global warming theories are true, and maybe they're not. I try to remain open-minded and I just haven't seen nearly enough (unbiassed) scientific evidence to convince me one way or the other. Whereas I have seen plenty of evidence of governments and private entrepreneurs alike, cynically seizing the opportunity to make a fast-buck out the whole thing. That exploitation, it seems to me, is the only thing we can be certain of at this point of scientific understanding.
Now crossing my fingers that I don't regret 'stirring' things :D
-
I have read quite extensively a lot of serious literature on the subject, and there's no doubt in my mind. If anything, governments have been trying to get the scientists to scale back their estimates, not exaggerate them. Certainly there are lots of commercial interests trying to make money out of climate change, but that doesn't mitigate against the fact that it's happening. Of course it's not certain - nothing is - but overwhelming probability should be enough. The bottom line is that we can't afford to wait and see; if, as most climatologists believe, we are heading for an environmental crisis, it will be too late if we do nothing for a few more years.
-
I have read quite extensively a lot of serious literature on the subject, and there's no doubt in my mind. If anything, governments have been trying to get the scientists to scale back their estimates, not exaggerate them. Certainly there are lots of commercial interests trying to make money out of climate change, but that doesn't mitigate against the fact that it's happening. Of course it's not certain - nothing is - but overwhelming probability should be enough. The bottom line is that we can't afford to wait and see; if, as most climatologists believe, we are heading for an environmental crisis, it will be too late if we do nothing for a few more years.
I am sceptical of climate change, however, as we are not sure whether it really is happening or not then I wonder why alternatives haven't made it on to the market like for example hydrogen powered cars ?
If climate change is happening then I wonder why the last 2 winters have been the harshest since records began ? :-\
-
If climate change is happening then I wonder why the last 2 winters have been the harshest since records began ?
Climate and weather are two different things. While the global average temperature is increasing (climate change) the weather in different places can vary enormously. In fact it's the case that, as the global temperature rises, weather conditions become more chaotic. So we can expect more extremes of weather as time goes on.
-
If climate change is happening then I wonder why the last 2 winters have been the harshest since records began ?
Climate and weather are two different things. While the global average temperature is increasing (climate change) the weather in different places can vary enormously. In fact it's the case that, as the global temperature rises, weather conditions become more chaotic. So we can expect more extremes of weather as time goes on.
Thanks, I didn't know that :)
-
Many, if not most, most of the variations and extremes in UK wind and rainfall are due to positioning of the Jetstream, which naturally drifts around over Northern Europe, sometimes to the North of the UK, and sometimes to the South. The Jetstream, for example, was almost certainly responsible for the deluge suffered in Boscastle a few year years ago, I'm not aware of any serious attempt to associate that event with global warming theories.
There's also the North Atlantic Oscillation, and possible influence of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, which together may largely explain why we've had two extreme winters on the trot, and may predict that we can expect a few more of the same before getting back to mild winters again as the pendulum swings slowly back.
Considering the influence that these age-old variations have on our weather, I find it frustrating how rarely, if ever, they are mentioned on UK forecasts or weather reports. If you visit the USA, in contrast, you'll the position of 'The Jet' is regularly shown on TV. I sometimes wonder whether the fact that the USA folks tend to be better-informed of these entirely natural factors may explain why they are less easily convinced of more sinister explanations?
As I think Eric implies, we won't half regret it if we disregard the climatologists then, in 50 years time, it turns out they were right. I don't want to risk that, so let's not disregard them, but let's also remain open-minded that they may also be wrong, and let's ensure that our reactions to their theories are proportionate to the uncertainties in their science?
-
Everyone has a right to their view and should be free to express it. We live in a democratic society in the UK & the majority of English speaking countries.
-
Of course, yes.
-
If you visit the USA, in contrast, you'll the position of 'The Jet' is regularly shown on TV.
In fact I've seen quite a few British weather forecasts recently where it's been shown and given as the explanation for prolonged periods of particular weather.
That said, the sheer size of the USA probably also makes it more relevant to their overview.
And don't forget, though it's easy to do so, that our recent extreme events have generally been matched by the (less obvious/less reported) opposite happening elsewhere. The overall worldwide trend is most definitely warming up and supported by all the data. As explained earlier Climate is not weather. ;)
-
Everyone has a right to their view and should be free to express it. We live in a democratic society in the UK & the majority of English speaking countries.
On that at least, I hope we all agree :)
-
I will agree that the climate is changing, however not all of it is by man made activities. In fact I would say a fair bit of it is down to the way that climate around our planet works. If it were stable then we would not have had climate changes in the history of this dear planet. Whilst mankind certainly made a great change during and after the industrial revolution to modern day I fear it all began when mankind discovered that he could make fire. What will be will be, that's not to say we should go on polluting the atmosphere, we should not. What's to say that in the future mankind will not have found a way to control the climate.? Too far fetched, I don't think so.
That's my two pennyworth on the subject.
Colin No.2
-
I think I've stated all my own views on climate and weather and I don't want to repeat for fear of sending everybody to sleep, so I'll say no more on the science.
On the subject of healthy scientific scepticism, were you aware that one of the purposes of the american 'Pioneer' spacecraft of the 1970s was to 'test' Newton's laws of motion to a degree of accuracy which had never before been possible?
The point I make is that, despite confidence gained over hundreds of years, and having established a society who's every technology is completely dependant on the Newtonian laws, NASA were still free to continue to test their validity, and they gained funding and respect for doing so. In contrast, anybody who dares question the validity of Climate theory seems to be branded an enemy of society and, preferably, hung drawn and quartered. That's just not right, in my view.
Incidentally, I understand the Pioneers 'failed' the test, but let's not go there. :)
-
I'd better not say any more either, lest people should think that I'm in the hanging, drawing and quatering camp. :)
-
I sit in the SLMuddle camp and I would make a couple of points that worry me. The effect our efforts in the Western World will have on limiting atmospheric CO/CO2 fades into insignificance when compared to the developing countries like India and China. Since they are not going to stop what they rightly see as "their turn" at development what is the point of crippling our own industries when it won't make any difference? A bit defeatist perhaps but pragmatic.
The proliferation of wind farms astounds me. No provision, as far as I know, has been made to store the energy produced when the wind blows so back up generating plant of equal capacity producing loads of CO/CO2 needs to be available for when it doesn't and so the reduction in CO/CO2 production is much lessened. And the profits being made by the wind farm industry are offensive.
Lastly historians and geologists agree that there were periods of high temperatures and ice ages throughout our planet's history at times when no industry existed so why do we have the cheek to think our puny efforts at control will have any effect now. Maybe the sun has an effect on our planet's climate by a mechanism so far unidentified and CO/CO2 has only a small effect. Just because we can measure it doesn't mean it is the only cause of climate change.
Global warming seems to be the present day version of "original sin" which I thought we'd grown out of and to dare to question it is often attacked as unethical. As I get older I realise that the information we are presented with by the media in all its guises, is shrouded in spin with no way of establishing its veracity. Gone are the days when BBC TV News (or any other factual programme) can be believed in in its entirety. Consequently I have a jaundiced view of "the evidence" as presented to us. It was only 40 years or so ago that the media were warning of another ice age. Who would like to bet that story might come back with "more evidence".
Rant over (but I feel much better!)
Tony
-
Many, if not most, most of the variations and extremes in UK wind and rainfall are due to positioning of the Jetstream, which naturally drifts around over Northern Europe, sometimes to the North of the UK, and sometimes to the South. The Jetstream, for example, was almost certainly responsible for the deluge suffered in Boscastle a few year years ago, I'm not aware of any serious attempt to associate that event with global warming theories.
Considering the influence that these age-old variations have on our weather, I find it frustrating how rarely, if ever, they are mentioned on UK forecasts or weather reports. If you visit the USA, in contrast, you'll the position of 'The Jet' is regularly shown on TV. I sometimes wonder whether the fact that the USA folks tend to be better-informed of these entirely natural factors may explain why they are less easily convinced of more sinister explanations?
If the jetstream is so important to the UK's weather then I agree that the jetstream should be part of the UK forecast.
-
I remember 1963 and making and breaking three sledges :)
Have we had weather like that again?
Close this year but not as long as 1963.
It was fun but I still remember being cold and could not open door due to snow drift.
-
1947, 1981-2.
http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/philip-eden/Snowiest-of-20th-century.htm
My daughter was born on 15/12/81 and getting my wife to hospital for the birth was "challenging" ; we didn't see the tarmac on the road outside our house for the next 3 months!
-
Seeing as this thread was originally about fair fuel prices UK then here is the response from Mr Osbourne.
http://www.fairfueluk.com/letterfromgeorgeosborne.html
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fairfueluk.com%2FGeorge_Osborne_Letter_to_FFUK.jpg&hash=f9d6d6777aff25808c6711675f77d8411635d366)
-
Who is Quetin Willson?
-
I presume he's a misspelt Quentin Willson.
Not a lot of comfort in the letter, is there? :(
-
It's the same old story 'Blame it on the last lot'.
-
It's the same old story 'Blame it on the last lot'.
Yes but the last rises in fuel duty were brought in whilst they were in power and at least the current lot are attempting to do something about it with the promise of a fuel stabiliser but we will have to wait and see as politicians are not to be trusted at least in my book they aren't !
Until there is a viable alternative to fossil fuels then I'm afraid governments of all political persuasions will continue to look to the motorist as a 'cash cow'
I'm sure I saw a science article a while ago about hydrogen powered cars ?
I expect the idea has been shelved as the oil companies have bribed the team to shut up about it to keep a monopoly on oil :-\
-
Recent conflicts in the Middle East are making things worse - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12522291
-
I'm sure I saw a science article a while ago about hydrogen powered cars ?
I expect the idea has been shelved as the oil companies have bribed the team to shut up about it to keep a monopoly on oil :-\
Where do you think Hydrogen comes from, it's not like there's lots of it just lying around ready to burn....
(it needs power to make, i.e. some sort of fuel usually)
-
Where do you think Hydrogen comes from, it's not like there's lots of it just lying around ready to burn....
(it needs power to make, i.e. some sort of fuel usually)
It's a wonder a way can't be found to utilise the hydrogen in the oceans as there is a lot of that ;D
-
To claim the hydrogen from any resource you need some form of power. Claiming it from the oceans means dealing with salt as well. Salination plants are used on may sea going vessels to supply fresh water. The next step to reclaim the hydrogen is use electrolysis to separate the hydrogen & oxygen. What do you do with the surplus oxygen then.
On the other hand the International Space Station produces hydrogen as a waste product when they use water to reclaim the oxygen. If instead of them venting it off into space we had a conveyor system whereby we on the ground swap our waste oxygen for their waste hydrogen? :crazy:
Whatever one does with a resource you finish up with a waste product and with any resource it is not endless. Perpetual motion has not been invented yet.
What was this thread about ? I've forgotten.
-
New Campaign underway
Sign your support here
http://www.fairfueluk.com/index.html