Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: Boptos on January 03, 2011, 10:06:46 AM
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Hello
We've just moved to a 1930s house that has some old telephone wiring which I think is causing noise on our voice line and making our broadband connection temperamental.
- The drop wire is ribbed rather than round sheath cable and has a separate, unsheathed (earth?) wire where it enters the house.
- The cable comes into the house and enters a junction box that looks a bit like this http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/BT60A.jpg (http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/BT60A.jpg), creamy coloured, about 4 inches long and the embossed text on it says POST OFFICE.
- From here, I think it's star wired. Our master socket is about 3 meters away, and looks like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LJ_Front.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LJ_Front.jpg). (There's also an older length of cable running the same course, but it looks to be cut at both ends. Perhaps this connected a previous round plug phone socket?)
- From the junction box, a wire passes back outside and to an upstairs bedroom where it terminates in an extension socket which has the embossed 'T' logo like the master socket. (This cable has a round sheath and looks newer than the drop wire.)
The noise on the phone line is intermittent but terrible when it happens - I can't hear anything the caller is saying. The broadband connection seems OK, but drops out intermittently, possibly more often when we use the telephone.
Presumably, I can't touch any of the existing wiring myself because it's all BT-supplied? I'd at least like to get the extension socket removed in the next 3 weeks, because it enters the upstairs bedroom through a hole in a wooden window frame that is about to be replaced. The drop wire also enters the house through a wooden door frame, and that may have to be disturbed (with the junction box) when we can afford to replace the front door.
Ideally, I'd like to have all the existing wiring removed and a new NTE5 fitted. I used a faceplate ADSL filter at my previous house, and I'd like to use it again. What will it cost me to have the wiring updated by Openreach? Can any of the work be done free of charge given the age of our set-up, the problems we have with noise on the line, and the fact that all of the existing wiring is BT-supplied?
(Our telephone and broadband supplier is plus net and we're on their non-LLU service.)
I hope someone can help! Thanks.
Barney
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Hi and welcome to the forums Boptos :)
I would have thought your first port of call would be to contact your Line rental and isp supplier(PlusNet in your case)and let them advise you.
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If you have noise on the voice calls contact BT as the chances are when an enginner comes out to check he may fit a new NTE box for free.
Or if not offer him a few quid cash to make the changes.
Try running BT's Line check (https://www2.bt.com/btPortal/application?origin=ftpd_hub_page.jsp&event=bea.portal.framework.internal.portlet.event&pageid=ftpd_hub&portletid=ftpd_hub&portletns=ftpd_hub&wfevent=event.fp_start_fp_webflow&com.bea.event.type=linkclick&oSiteArea=btb.mya&oOJsp=ftpd_ft_get_account_line.jsp&oPg=ftpd_hub&oPJsp=ftpd_hub_page.jsp&oPt=ftpd_hub&oLName=faultPlacementParams&oLDesc=faultPlacementDsc&siteArea=con.mya&ftpd.telephone.number=)
Important
We can only check the line if it's not currently being used. This includes:
- Internet access
- Phone calls using a standard or VoIP phone
- Fax
- Broadband services e.g. BT Vision
You'll need to run this check using a PC connected to a different line and ensure that the line you wish to check is unused.
If another line is not available, we can help you to check things out using our Troubleshooting guide
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Hi Boptos,
BritBrat's ideas are spot on.
However I've found that BT don't seem able to check if your broadband modem is connected; so if you run the test and it reports a faulty line you are a long way towards getting a free site visit which would almost certainly include, as a minimum, the installation of a new NTE 5 in place of the Post Office box. If the engineer is in a good mood that might also include the replacement of the entire drop wire. When arranging an appointment it's best to ask for a morning appointment as day light is important in this case. Once you have the NTE5 fitted, anything downstream of it is usually considered customer's property and you are free to adjust as you wish. Try to persuade the BT engineer not to connect a ring wire to the removable NTE5 front plate.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Thanks for your replies. I've now tried the BT line check, but unfortunately it says "unable to complete a line test ... no BT service recorded against this number" because we're with plus net for line rental.
From your replies, it looks as though an engineer visit is going to be needed, so I've raised a support request with plus net. We'll see what they suggest. I hope it can be done free of charge. If not, any ideas what it could cost?
Thank you,
Barney
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Hi Barney,
If there is to be a charge Plusnet, who will actually be instructing Openreach, should be able to tell you.
I'd guess around £150 as a minimum, but with suitable evidence from Routerstats or Routerstats lite, you should be able to avoid any charges.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/log_routerstats.htm
Kind regards,
Walter
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You should only get a charge if it is your equipment at fault not if it is BT's.
If you do get someone out bare that in mind and ask what the problem was?
Before they come try and make sure it is not one of your phones or cabling at fault, you can get a cheap wired phone from Argos (under £10) to test and it comes in handy to have for any future problems.
Make sure there is no damp in the connection box.
On a side note:
Plusnet are BT or at least owned by them.
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Hi
quote Plusnet are BT or at least owned by them.
but of course it does NOT mean preferential treatment
Regards Jeff
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An Openreach engineer turned up without warning yesterday (Sunday!) afternoon. We were glad to see him because the noise on the line has been terrible.
He tested the line at the old 'Post Office' junction box where the drop wire enters the house, and there was still noise on the line. He then went to the end of our road and found that the connections in the box there were corroded "blue and green." Whatever he did to remedy it, the line has been pretty quiet since, and we've not had the same problems with getting an ADSL sync, or with the connection dropping (so far)!
The engineer didn't seem keen to do anything more than get rid of the noise on the line. So, we still have the old Post Office box. Thankfully, he agreed to leave the old extension socket wiring disconnected, so we no longer have a star wired set-up. With even more of my begging, he replaced the old master socket with an NTE5 (he said "they weren't supposed to, but he would on this occasion"). I'm very grateful, because this means I can now use the ADSL filtered faceplate I used at our old house, and if I want, I can run an extension from there for the router (wireless signal isn't great in this house). Great stuff!
I'm surprised engineers don't replace such ancient equipment (the Post Office junction box and the old master socket) as a matter of routine on these visits. Maybe they think "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." He did say that the old, ribbed drop wire was better stuff than they use nowadays.
Hopefully, no charge for yesterday's visit. My only concern now is, 12 months down the line, when we replace the front door, the window fitters will still have to work around the drop wire (which comes through a hole in the wooden door frame) and the Post Office junction box (which is screwed to the door frame) somehow... Or we'll have to pay for a 'service move' which will no doubt cost a bit.
Thanks for your advice, folks.
Barney
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There certainly shouldn't be a charge for the visit, because the engineer found a fault in the line and corrected it. I suppose that there could be a charge for fitting the NTE5, but not a large one as it was done in the course of a visit to fix a line fault.
Really, it sounds like a pretty good result, and hopefully you'll now have a good stable connection.
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@ barney,
Re the flat twin cable, the engineer is correct in that the copper is usually of a much larger diameter and will be mechanically stronger, particularly useful when your replace the door frame.
The disadvantage is that flat twin does not cancel noise as twisted pair wiring does. However if the twin wire is reasonably short and you are not in front of a radar station or opposite Rugby, it probably won't make too much difference.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi Walter
The disadvantage is that flat twin does not cancel noise as twisted pair wiring does.
I thought this might be the case, but I wasn't about to argue with the engineer. Beggars can't be choosers - I was just grateful that he left the star-wired extension disconnected and that he agreed to fit an NTE5. More than that, I'm glad the noise on the line has gone! Let's hope the connections at the box at the end of the street stay nice and corrosion-free now.
Thanks
Barney
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I hope you sliped him a tenner.
Sounds like he did a good job.
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Hey,
Thats a first i have heard an engineer not replacing an old GPO socket for a new NTE5 thought that was part of there protocol. There is still a chance the engineer may raise a charge for BT it is £85 to £100 for an hour or the first part of an hour then something like £80 an hour after that but because your line rental is with plusnet those charges may be different. Your argument against a charge if it is raised is how old the socket is and also a fault was found on the local network.
Regards
Gary
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I think the charge is (was) about £25 for "regularising" to an NTE5A.
That assumes an engineer is already there so the callout/minimum is already covered.
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Firstly, I would have asked your Broadband SP to raise an SFI/SFI2 engineering visit. Most (if not all) SP's are happy to pay for us (as opposed to you paying) to rehash the old PSTN star-wiring of old, into a fashion more suited to DSL transmission. At the end of the day, the SP doesn't want 'Repeat Reports' of any kind on your circuit, just as you dont want 'repeat faults' on the circuit.
Secondly, it is not only in our remit to replace ANY obsolete Master Sockets for the new NTE5's, it is also a 'Quality failure' if we dont. This leads to disciplinary action of we engineers, so he wasn't just 'doing you a favour'. Also, the upgrade of the NTE5 is cost-free ...... unless of course there's obvious damage like a bloody big axe stuck in it.
Yes, the old 'Dropwire 6' (ribbed wire) has a larger poundage than the newer 'Dropwire 10', but for the distance it is used, it will have little or no effect whatsoever on speed. What the newer 'Dropwire 10' will do, is eliminate 'Noise' far,far better than 'Dropwire 6' due to the wiring being twisted pairs, as mentioned by another OP earlier. In other words, the DW10 is more suited to DSL than the DW6.
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I knew it was in openreach's remit to replace that socket just wasn't 100% sure.
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Hi guys I have this post office termination block thing running in on my bathroom window - good to know finally what to even call it! It runs through to the only phone socket in the flat, which again is of the type the OP posted the picture of.
There's nothing overly, repeatably wrong with the setup but I feel sure we should be connecting at a higher speed than we do considering the proximity of the exchange, they did try to put it up to the full 12meg but it was too unreliable to use.
Am I right in thinking that BT will not charge me to 'regularise' this wiring? Or does there have to be an identifiable fault on the line for them to come out? There is often hiss on the line but I rarely use the phone and always assumed it was the cheap rubbish cordless phones we have. However the line is clearly not great and the wiring cannot be helping. Plus that post office block cant be in the best place, in a steamy bathrooom.