Kitz Forum

Computer Software => Windows Vista => Topic started by: canon on August 30, 2007, 09:35:48 PM

Title: Vista go-slow
Post by: canon on August 30, 2007, 09:35:48 PM
Something for Vista users

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/29/vista_networking_degradation/

Terry.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: roseway on August 31, 2007, 07:05:46 AM
As a Windows-free household, I couldn't possibly comment. :-X
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: kitz on August 31, 2007, 11:35:57 AM
Interesting.. 
reading between all the gumph seems like this could be a problem on some networks using gigabit ethernet. 
Theres a lot of reading for associated stuff but and someone said it would appear that MS only tested on 10/100Mb networks???

Info from one of the M$ guys here seems about the most informative so far
http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2007/08/28/windows-vista-sound-causes-network-throughput-slowdowns.aspx

Essentially, the root of the problem is that for Vista, when you're playing multimedia content, the system throttles incoming network packets to prevent them from overwhelming the multimedia rendering path - the system will only process 10,000 network frames per second (this is a hideously simplistic explanation, see Mark's post for the details)

For 100mbit networks, this isn't a problem - it's pretty hard to get a 100mbit network to generate 10,000 frames in a second (you need to have a hefty CPU and send LOTS of tiny packets), but on a gigabit network, it's really easy to hit the limit.


Now its hit the headlines lets see what M$ do about it  ???
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: kitz on August 31, 2007, 11:37:19 AM
>> As a Windows-free household, I couldn't possibly comment.

heh so you did it and  the lappy is now linux too?
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Pwiggler on August 31, 2007, 12:40:00 PM
As a Windows-free household, I couldn't possibly comment. :-X


must be dark ??
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: roseway on August 31, 2007, 12:43:32 PM
>>> heh so you did it and  the lappy is now linux too?

Yes, I only left it there until I was sure that everything (including the wireless interface) would work properly with Linux, which it does, and then I happily wiped the HD and started from scratch.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: roseway on August 31, 2007, 12:45:09 PM
>>> must be dark ??

Ho ho :P
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: tickmike on September 17, 2007, 10:34:00 PM
>>> heh so you did it and  the lappy is now linux too?

Yes, I only left it there until I was sure that everything (including the wireless interface) would work properly with Linux, which it does, and then I happily wiped the HD and started from scratch.


What distro did you put on ?.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: roseway on September 17, 2007, 10:40:33 PM
It's currently got Mepis 7 beta 4, and I'll upgrade it when the final release comes out in a couple of weeks.

I tried out several distros, and Mepis was the one which got the wireless interface working with no input from me at all apart from entering the security details.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: tickmike on September 17, 2007, 10:46:24 PM
Long dark evenings are with us once more, so I may try a few distros again.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Pwiggler on September 18, 2007, 08:19:08 AM
yeah i know, 20:30 it was dark last night  :(
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Azzaka on December 31, 2007, 02:05:38 PM
There is a problem with Vista and wireless connections. The cause is the pickup of dns servers from the modem/routers dhcp servers. Answer: Manually set the DNS servers on either the router/modems DHCP server or the on the Vista Wireless network.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: kitz on December 31, 2007, 02:45:33 PM
>> Manually set the DNS servers on either the router/modems DHCP server or the on the Vista Wireless network.

Thats good to know thanks for the tip.

Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Azzaka on December 31, 2007, 02:48:30 PM
Always welcome
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: mr_chris on December 31, 2007, 03:52:03 PM
Answer: Manually set the DNS servers on either the router/modems DHCP server ...

I may have missed something but how does that help? I can see how setting it manually on the Vista network properties can help, but if it's having problems picking up DHCP from the router anyway, is it not going to have just as many problems even if you set them manually in the router?

Like I say, I've probably missed something :)
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Azzaka on December 31, 2007, 03:58:09 PM
No you didn't miss anything, just my explemation was a-miss.

By setting the DNS servers on the DHCP server of the modem, then when it queries the modem's Gateway then it has all the info it needs to continue. Normally it would query the modem and then look for the dns addresses supplied on the WAN side. However in this case the modem will not just query the WLAN but it wont need to query the WAN's DNS and goes straight to the site needed.

I hope that explains it bettter.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: mr_chris on December 31, 2007, 04:02:38 PM
Oh I get it now - d'oh (I blame too much Christmas festivities!!)

Basically you're just saying to make sure that you set the ISP's DNS servers in DHCP on the router so they are passed to the PC when the PC obtains an IP address. This way the PC queries the ISP's DNS servers directly rather than using the router as a DNS relay.

Actually this can help some routers too (cough - DLink) which can lock up when they try to cache too many DNS entries and run out of memory!
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Azzaka on December 31, 2007, 04:12:32 PM
*cough* Linksys *cough*

aye thats the ticket. the reason is that the dns is not carried across from the WAN to the DHCP side properly.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: guest on December 31, 2007, 04:27:36 PM
So DHCP on Vista is broken as well?  ???
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Azzaka on December 31, 2007, 04:49:54 PM
To put it simply... Ahhh Yes! but it seems only via wireless.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: guest on December 31, 2007, 04:52:48 PM
Only via wireless. So its the authentication sequence that will be the issue then. Embrace and extend - ie break it. At least MS are consistent :(
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: oldfogy on December 31, 2007, 04:56:53 PM
Would that be the reason the two Vista lappies my friend had at Christmas are forever failing to connect to the network/internet?

ISP = BT with a NetGear Modem Router.

Although it does get a connection eventually (usually just as soon as I walk in through the door to sort it out)  :lol:
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Floydoid on December 31, 2007, 05:41:01 PM
Although it does get a connection eventually (usually just as soon as I walk in through the door to sort it out)  :lol:

Which all goes to prove that every home needs an old fogy. :)
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Azzaka on January 02, 2008, 09:17:30 AM
Would that be the reason the two Vista lappies my friend had at Christmas are forever failing to connect to the network/internet?

ISP = BT with a NetGear Modem Router.

Although it does get a connection eventually (usually just as soon as I walk in through the door to sort it out)  :lol:

That reason may also be the  channel being used. I find that Channel 4 is the better channel. Otherwise yes that could be the reason.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: oldfogy on January 02, 2008, 12:34:44 PM

That reason may also be the  channel being used. I find that Channel 4 is the better channel. Otherwise yes that could be the reason.

Thanks Azzaka, I'll try and find which channel it's using the next time I have access to it.

(On the other hand, the amount of festoon tailing lights (Christmas lights) around the property may also not be helping)
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: guest on January 02, 2008, 05:01:53 PM
1 or 11 should be your first choices for channels - or 13 if you have a device which knows its in Europe.

Every other channel overlaps other channels on both upper and lower frequencies. I use 6 as everyone else around here uses 1 and 11 - 6 doesn't overlap either channel 1 or 11 whereas 5 and 7 do.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Pwiggler on January 03, 2008, 08:33:55 AM
OF, what happens when you try and connect the vista machine to the network?  what does the 'network and sharing center' say its doing?

do your friend shut down their vista machines or put them into standby when not in use?

Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: oldfogy on January 03, 2008, 03:30:32 PM

 what happens when you try and connect the vista machine to the network? 

All the PCs appear to be able to talk to each other and are showing-up in My Computer/Networks.
Although:
Using Vista to copy files from the XP PCs will allow files to be copied over.
Using Vista to copy files from the other Vista PC is asking for a password before it will allow a connection.
Using XP to copy files to the Vista PC was not tried.

Basically I think it may just be another Vista quirk that needs a setting changed to allow further sharing as no passwords have been set on either of the Vista PCs.

Quote

 what does the 'network and sharing center' say its doing?

I don't know about that one ('network and sharing center') as I never came across it. (yet)


Quote

 does your friend shut down their vista machines or put them into standby when not in use?

As far as I know they would be shutting them down.

********************************************************************

Over the last couple of days things seem to have quietened or settled down as I have not had any further queries.
However saying that, whether they are actually working as we would say "properly" is possibly a debatable point, because ALL the PCs are basically only used for either accessing MSN or playing games which they are able to do so.
(Maybe it's just that I wanted the network accessible properly that is/was the problem)

At the moment because the main PC is XP, this is also the original PC that has all of the photo's stored on it which is what they will be wanting to copy from and this is not presenting a problem.
Copying from Vista to Vista may not now be a problem either, because one of these PCs is not now based at the same address and possibly only on a rare occasion will they need to communicate with each other.
(I will have to cover that hurdle when it occurs)

Also I have only just learnt that the not connecting to the internet and dropping of problem has been happening since before Christmas on the original XP PC, so this is not a PC problem but an ISP problem.
(Probably to much of a demand in the area)
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Azzaka on January 04, 2008, 10:19:48 AM
Also I have only just learnt that the not connecting to the internet and dropping of problem has been happening since before Christmas on the original XP PC, so this is not a PC problem but an ISP problem.
(Probably to much of a demand in the area)

Probably a Twisted pair issue. Call your ISP after you have checked the Filters and are in the test socket of the main BT Socket. If it still continues after its been fixed then it may be fixed by a tweak for vista.
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: oldfogy on January 04, 2008, 11:28:56 AM
Thanks for the advice but I am not going to pursue the matter very much, mainly because I do not know what the filters are, let alone how to check them.

I know the modem router is plugged into the main socket, but there are also 2/3 possibly even 4 extensions in the house, although I'm not certain if these are wired wireless or a combination of both.

But thanks again for the advice.
(This is one of those jobs that needs to be tackled by someone who knows exactly what they are doing, which is not me)
Title: Re: Vista go-slow
Post by: Azzaka on January 04, 2008, 12:35:48 PM
A good base guide for troubleshooting intermittent connections.

http://www.zensupport.co.uk/KnowledgeBase/article.aspx?id=10552