Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: gs1norwich on October 03, 2010, 01:00:14 PM
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I got an E-mail from BT last week saying good news, we made changes to your exchange and you will now get upto 20mb automatically.
They said no extra cost and it could take 10 days to stabilize
I am still synced @ 8124k so have had no increase whatsoever.
I looked on the BT site and could find no info whatsoever,
so remembered how good kitz-forum is and after finally remembering my password i figured one of the great members here could enlighten me?
Is it free and automatic, or does it involve renewing a contract, finally i am still using a Voyager 220v, is this good enough for upto 20mbs?
it is ADSL2+ so it should support upto 24mbs afaik.
Thanks for any info/replies :D
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Hello gs1norwich............and welcome back :)
For a first step, perhaps you could go to this page ... http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php ... type in your details and then post back with the result.
Also, could you advise which BT "package" you are on.
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Thanks for the reply :D
Here is the exchange info
Exchange: Norwich City BT Code: EANCC
Location: St Andrews Street, NR2 4AE
Distance:- Direct: 1.12 km
(appx)* By Road: 2.41 km
Status
ADSL enabled: June 30, 2001
DSL Max enabled: March 31, 2006
SDSL enabled : Enabled
21CN due : (PSTN) N/A
21CN WBC (Broadband) Enabled 15.02.09
I am out of contract on BT option 3 unlimited upto 8MB
I am close to the exchange as you can see and i have a pretty stable line, B/RAS of 7500 :D
EDIT
should add i updated voyagers firmaware just incase
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Could you now post your routerstats..........how to do that, select the router you are using from the list..http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php
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the Voyager 220v is not in the list, however i know how to get them myself..
Line Mode ADSL2+ Line State Show Time
Line Power State L0 Line Up Time 00:20:13:49
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 2
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 8124 Kbps 446 Kbps
Noise Margin 12.7 dB 17.3 dB
Line Attenuation 40.0 dB 20.6 dB
Output Power 22.4 dBm 12.2 dBm
M (number of Mux Frames in FEC Frame) 1 2
T (Mux Frames over sync bytes) 2 1
R (number of check bytes in FEC Frame) 16 12
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Frame length) 0.4983 2.5806
L (number of bits in PMD Frame) 2296 155
D (interleaver depth) 64 8
Delay 7 msec 5 msec
Super Frames 4512495 4512493
Super Frame Errors 259 3333
RS Words 586624412 153424762
RS Correctable Errors 113678 9578
RS Uncorrectable Errors 14457 0
HEC Errors 248 0
OCD Errors 10 0
LCD Errors 0 0
ES Errors 0 0
Thanks for your continued support ;)
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You've (possibly) been misled by BT. With an attenuation of 40 dB you're not going to get 20 Mbps or anything even close. About 9000 kbps is as much as you could hope for. You seem to have a slightly raised noise margin, which may be the result of some earlier instability, causing the target noise margin to be increased.
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Hmm.
on the upto 8mb service i was rock solid stable..speeds of 900KB/s maximum over http even 700KB/s peak time on BT!!!
i figured i would see some increase, at least according to the email BT sent me
Good news. We’ve just made improvements to your local network so you can get faster broadband at no extra charge.
What’s happening?
We’re upgrading your line so you can get faster broadband – up to 20Mb download speeds. The top speed you can get on your broadband line depends on a few things, like how far you live from your exchange, how many other people are online at the same time, your phone wiring and even interference from appliances in your home.
What do I need to do?
Nothing. We’ll upgrade your broadband automatically. You won’t lose your connection when we upgrade your local exchange but it could take about ten days for your broadband speed to settle down. That's normal. It takes that long to reach its top speed. You can help it along by leaving your Home Hub on all the time and using your broadband as much as you can for the first ten days.
blah blah blah......
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There are two key words and they are up to. A very wide statement. It means if you are getting any sync at all you are getting up to 20 meg. I would leave well alone as anything you do to upset the system will end up with a reduction. If you are very patient you may see a slight increase.
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Interesting stats, but definitely ADSL2+.
It looks like the line has maybe been capped at the "old" speeds.
However, even if "uncapped" you wouldn't get much more.
Maybe it really is "retraining" and will improve "a little, but not a lot" :lol:
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Hi GS1,
Unless you are North of the Yare your attenuation seems rather high as is your estimated line distance @ 2.9 km.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php
It might be worth trying a new modem to see of your attenuation reduces.
Have you done all the optimisation tricks such as those here:-
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm
Kind regards,
Walter
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cheers for the replies all.
I am north of the Yare :) (i am still in the 10 day period as stated in the email)
but has already been said if i was on upto 20mb surely i would have a 20000k sync regardless of IP profile/throughput?
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Absolutely not, it's distance-related (big time)
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but has already been said if i was on upto 20mb surely i would have a 20000k sync regardless of IP profile/throughput?
Oh no,doesn't work like that I'm afraid......Look at what you have posted.......Upto,not will get,welcome to the real world of UK Broadband. ;D
As HP sauce has stated,it depends on how far/near you live from the exchange(line attenuation)as to what speeds your line is capable of.Live next door and you're laughing.
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The reason I asked about your internal house wiring was that you seem to have quite a few uncorrectable errors so perhaps your line is on the noisy side of fair.
I agree with the others that you're unlikely to achieve a startling improvement but it might be worth a try.
I might be tempted to spend £20 on a 2Wire 2700HGV just to squeeze the last drop out of the line.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi
As Roseway has said the maximum synch you could expect with 40db attenuation is about 9000Kbps that is with the default 6db Target SNR margin . Your DS SNR margin is 12.7 db . Each 3db above 6db can cost up to 1200Kbps , depending on bit loading. With the reduced bit loading due to your attenuation the loss wont be that much but can easily be 400 to 500Kbps per 3db. in other words your losses could well be around 1000Kbps. If you can get the SNR margin down to 6db , your errors seem a little high for this to happen quickly,you could expect a slight improvement but nothing sensational.
I notice your output power is quite high suggesting your line is at about its limit .
Regards Jeff
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Thanks again all for all the replies.
what i dont understand is when i signed up in 2007 i was told i could get 6.5mb on upto 8 mb (i am always synced around 8000k with an IP profile of 7500k) if my line can support such a high speed on 8mb how come i get no extra gain on upto 20mb
I dont understand it, if i can get almost the max on upto 8 then surely i should get some improvent on upto 20mb
to me BT actually finally getting round to updating all exchanges to 21CN seems bloody pointless if people like myself are going to see no change whatsoever and i am close to the exchange, so people further away will see sod all improvement too, so surely it is a pointless upgrade?
BT might as well not bother with 21CN rollout and just press on implementing FTTC,
afterall who is going to benefit from this upto 20mb upgrade? no one i suspect
disappointed in BT yet again
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If you want some bedtime reading have a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_21CN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_21CN).
I don't believe everything I read on Wikipedia but it does ring somewhat true.
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.. or read the Kitz version (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/21cn.htm) which may be more accurate.
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Read 'em both. ;)
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to me BT actually finally getting round to updating all exchanges to 21CN seems bloody pointless if people like myself are going to see no change whatsoever and i am close to the exchange, so people further away will see sod all improvement too, so surely it is a pointless upgrade?
They can do what they want to the exchange,but until you have better cabling (ie fibre)then you will hardly see any difference in the exchange upgrades.
I am one of those a long way from the exchange and I am very lucky to get 2.5MB,some poor people are lucky to get 256kbps,or no BB at all.
BT might as well not bother with 21CN rollout and just press on implementing FTTC,
afterall who is going to benefit from this upto 20mb upgrade? no one i suspect
disappointed in BT yet again
I was flat lining in BT disappointment till I left and joined O2.I was lucky to get 1.5MB with BT,and that was coupled with abysmal Indian support.
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One other thing,
if i can only achieve 8125k sync on this upto 20mb , why has my upload not increased at all?
surely i should see some improvement over the standard 448k for upto 8mb ADSL
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definitely ADSL2+.
It looks like the line has maybe been capped at the "old" speeds.
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Ah right, i see. thanks mate :D
Anyway to get this cap removed?
Maybe migrating to a different ADSL2+ LLU provider at my exchange? Or Signing up to a new BT contract?
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even if "uncapped" you wouldn't get much more.
Except probably a faster upload.
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Unless and until either BT provide FTTC** to your local PCP green cabinet (assuming you're not wired directly off the exchange) or Virgin media provide their fibre ring and coax cable services in your road, home wiring and / or modem tweaking are the only things which might just make minor improvements.
** I see that Norwich is not yet even on the latest list of future FTTC projects.
It will be cold comfort, but you are actually far better off than many in the UK.
I am helping in a village with 900 houses.
From my sample of 112 sets of broadband speeds there are only 6 with throughput speeds of over 2 Mbps and the highest is 3865 Kbps.
Over 30 houses have no broadband at all.
The "winners" are in specific streets very close to the PCP so I can predict that there can't be more than about 40 in total with speeds over 2 Mbps.
Please just relax and ignore all the advertising hype (or read precisely what is guaranteed) and wait for a few years.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi
quote what i dont understand is when i signed up in 2007 i was told i could get 6.5mb on upto 8 mb (i am always synced around 8000k with an IP profile of 7500k)
That seems odd as on adsl1 the highest profile is 7150Kbps . If you synched at ~8000 then the Ip profile should have been 7000. At 8096Kbps 8128 Kbps the profile would be 7150Kbps.
Edit error
To synch at ~8000Kbps your attenuation would have to have been around 29 to 30db giving a line length of about 2.1 Km .Even allowing for the slight increase in attenuation for ADSL2 say 2 to 3db then your current Attenuation should be about 32 to 33db NOT
Line Attenuation 40.0 dB. .Correcting this to adsl1 (~38db)gives a line length of about 2.8Km.So there must be something different with your line?
Regards Jeff
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Hi jeff,
sorry you are correct (apologies it was a typo) :oops:
i am synced @ 8124k with IP profile of 7000k (it should be 7150k as you say)
(apologies if my stats annoy anyone stuck with under 2mb :p
Test1 comprises of two tests
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
7292 Kbps
0 Kbps 7150 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 7292 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 2000-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8124 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 444 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 13.8:24.48:61.72 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.
The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
364 Kbps
0 Kbps 444 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 364 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 444 Kbps
We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.
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Hi
quote Your DSL Connection Rate :8124 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 444 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 7000 Kbps
If I use 8124 to find the expected profile in the Kitz profile calculator it returns an Invalid message .Have the steps changed ?
Regards Jeff
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Maybe 8096k is the top sync for ADSLmax, and that is why you cannot return a profile for the 8124 sync?
Just guessing as i know sod all about ADSL and how it works.
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There's a very good and informational website called www.kitz.co.uk. Take a look sometime and you can read about how adsl works. The owner of the site has done an awful lot of research and writing to put this information where you can read it.
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No offence mate but that is rather patronising :(
I am a video editor, but i dont tell you to go and read Adobe`s guides on video production using CS5
I have a basic understanding of ADSL and this is enough for me,I asked a proper question at the start of this thread re: BT`s 20mb upgrade, but now the thread has descended into a go and read articles thread!
All i wanted was a simple reply, is my upto 20mb upgrade dependant on me signing a new contract to activate it :p
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I have a basic understanding of ADSL
i know sod all about ADSL and how it works
OK, so which is it then? ???
No need to throw your toys out of the pram, EVERYONE has tried to help you.
(they don't have to....)
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A basic understanding of ADSL and not knowing how bits are tranmistted etc is fair enough i think.
I know how the router and DSLAM sync and how IP profiles are implemented based on errors etc,
however i have no idea how bits are transmitted and how interleaving works!
I asked a simple question re BT upto 20mb upgrade, i then received repies telling me..
1. my attenuation on my line will never yield more than 9mb even on upto 20mb
2. my line is indeed ADSL2+ but my stats are just crazy ??
3. to read up on BTs 21CN (fair enough)
4. my sync cannot possibly be 8124kbs (even though it is!)
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 8124 Kbps 446 Kbps
5. i am locked on ADSLmax, but no info on how to get this removed.even though i asked
6. not 1 reply on wether the 20mb upgrade is dependant on me signing a new contract, which was my initial question
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Come on guys, let's keep things friendly....no need to get annoyed or angry.
@ gs 1norwich, the members are trying to help, and the concensus of opinion is that, despite what BT have told you in that initial e-mail, BT have done nothing in the exchange which is going to afford you any increase in your sync or throughput speeds. In short, it would appear that you are the victim of BT advertising hype.
To your initial question......as you have not received any improvement in you service from BT they cannot expect you to pay more until they do offer more, and unless you agree to move onto a different package with BT your outlay should not change. If BT try to force you onto a new package, or impose one without your agreement, then argue the point with them and use the facts and opinions that the members have laid out in this thread as evidence against BT.
I well understand your frustration...your ISP implies to you that you are going onto a fast connection....and then fails to do so.
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Hey guys,
i want to apologise.for my outburst
I had a nightmare day yesterday after dealing with a return to a company, who claimed no responsibility even though the item as only 16 weeks old!
I was really annoyed at them and also some arrogant fools on a so called consumer expert website, who offered no advice /help whatsoever
i snapped on there and stupidly went and answered a few posts on various forums,all tinged with an amount of bitterness :(
totally uncalled for and i do apologise (especially @ HPSauce)
I bought a £200 camera (just for out riding )and it failed after about 12 uses, the company i bought it from claimed i had to deal with Fuji, Fuji claimed i had to deal with the seller etc etc and was on the phone for at least 2 hours trying to sort it out.
back on topic
I emailed BT re this free upgrade and told them the email was mis-leading and i had received no speed increase whatsoever, i also mentioned that many users reported having to purchase a new contract to get the upto 20mb upgrade
Just checked my stats Today :p
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 13523 Kbps 780 Kbps
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 5.6 dB
Line Attenuation 40.0 dB 20.6 dB
Output Power 23.1 dBm 12.4 dBm
Test1 comprises of two tests
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
11779 Kbps
0 Kbps 21000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 11779 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 4000-21000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :13520 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 780 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 11000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 17.39:21.61:60.99 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.
The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
642 Kbps
0 Kbps 780 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 642 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 780 Kbps
We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.
So it would seem i have got an extra 3mb down and almost doubled my up :D
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Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 13523 Kbps 780 Kbps
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 5.6 dB
Line Attenuation 40.0 dB 20.6 dB
Output Power 23.1 dBm 12.4 dBm
Believe me there are millions of BB users who will kill for your stats ;)
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Good to see you have a result, gs 1norwich :clap2:
These frustrations do seem to arrive in bunches, dont they ? On the camera question, your contract is with the party from whom you purchased....and the distance selling regulations outweigh any "let-out" clauses they may have in their TandCs.
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Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 13523 Kbps 780 Kbps
Noise Margin 3.1 dB 5.6 dB
So it would seem i have got an extra 3mb down and almost doubled my up :D
Wow!
That is way, way more than you could expect on that line length. Do you live in a rural wilderness? :o
Seriously though, it looks like you have an initial 3dB target SNRM which may well increase, so expect the speed to drop somewhat.
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I agree with HP. Unless there's a bug in the reported downstream attenuation, you seem to be defying the laws of physics.
This is usually impossible !
Ergo I suspect your e-mail to BT has triggered a retrain and the speed is quite likely drop over time.
I do wish the network operators would tell you what they've done.
It is not in anybody's interest to have unexplained changes and, assuming the speed does drop, how much better to keep you informed so you don't go into explode mode !
Kind regards,
Walter
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Good to see you have a result, gs 1norwich :clap2:
These frustrations do seem to arrive in bunches, dont they ? On the camera question, your contract is with the party from whom you purchased....and the distance selling regulations outweigh any "let-out" clauses they may have in their TandCs.
I told the shop that the contract is between me & them and trying to fob me off by telling me it is the manufacturers was not going to wash,
I havea credit account with the said shop and i told them outright either they deal with the warranty or i will simply not pay 1 penny for the camera, and if they wanted to take me to court i would happily oblige :D
Anyway, that is way off topic for this thread.
RE my line stats, i agree the 3db noise margin will certainly drop back to 6db min, maybe even 12 :(
is 3db not the lowest it can possibly be on ADSL ?
To be honest i was not expecting an huge increase (maybe 1-2 mb max) but the main reason i wanted this upgrade is to increase my upload speed which @ 448k means about 100mb per 40 mins upload,
not uploaded anything yet as a test, but any improvement will be a blessing
Thanks to EVERYONE for taking the time to help me on this issue, and i really do apologise for acting like a twat earlier in the thread (HP) :)
It appears my camera woes may be over, after spending yet another hour or so on the phone i told the sales lady i would not be paying for this camera and if they will not warranty it i will goto court over it as i am legally in the right
She has arranged a courier to pick it up tomorrow sometime between 8am - 6pm
thats if they actually turn up :p
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upload speed which @ 448k
Now changed to 780k which is still strange......
It should be up nearer 1.2 or 1.3mbps unless it's limited somehow.
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I agree,
i am struggling to hit more than 55KB/s up ATM, My last router re-sync was around 11 hours ago (not initiated by me) so it would appear thats when my line was switched.
If the 10 day training is true (lol BT,usually it occurs in 72hrs) then i would expect at least an increase on the UP and no doubt some loss on the DOWN (with such a high 40db attenuation)
To answer an earlier question,
No i do not live in the wilderness, I live in Norwich City Centre, but we are remote in terms of the rest of the country and no doubt FTTC will be here in about 2018 :p
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You only have to ask how many miles of motorway there are in Norfolk, one of the larger counties.
No wonder some call it the salesman's graveyard - but it is a very nice place to be !
(Sorry going off-topic !)
Kind regards,
Walter
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They don't need motorways when they all ride bicycles. No hills or so they say.
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The irony is i am 35 and i still ride a BMX :P
http://www.vimeo.com/13388416
http://www.vimeo.com/13600895
All be it badly :p
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Hi
quote : I havea credit account with the said shop and i told them outright either they deal with the warranty or i will simply not pay 1 penny for the camera, and if they wanted to take me to court i would happily oblige laugh
Be careful ,your credit agreement may be with a credit company Not the retailer you bought the goods from. They would certainly take legal action .
I would get hold of your local Offices of fair trading ..
Regards Jeff
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Thanks for the advice mate :D
after a lot of trouble , phone calls & me threatening to refuse to pay, the company sent a courier out to me to pick the camera up
i just have to wait 3 weeks now whilst it is sent for warranty assessment and so hopefully it will all be resolved