Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Technology => Topic started by: geep on September 09, 2010, 11:44:15 PM

Title: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on September 09, 2010, 11:44:15 PM
Hi,
Here's a nice map showing ADSL24/BT Wholesale FTTC current and planned http://adsl24.co.uk/networkstatus/fttc/map/ (http://adsl24.co.uk/networkstatus/fttc/map/)
Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: roseway on September 10, 2010, 07:03:31 AM
Nice one, thanks Peter.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: silversurfer44 on September 10, 2010, 08:27:20 AM
Thank you for that Peter. I'm still not on it though.  :no:
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 10, 2010, 11:30:58 AM
Hi  :)


I've just had a look at the full list : http://adsl24.co.uk/networkstatus/fttc/list/ - & - My exchange is on it  8)

Already Knew Though Really!
1) Coz I've seen my exchange on a few different lists: http://tinyurl.com/yhvqhal
&
2) SamKnows even has the FTTC date for my exchange as... 01/12/2010 : http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WNDEE


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 10, 2010, 12:54:09 PM
Gentlefolk,

Just a small word of caution that the list does not necessarily mean that every PCP will be provided with a FTTC.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: UncleUB on September 10, 2010, 01:23:25 PM
Gentlefolk,

Just a small word of caution that the list does not necessarily mean that every PCP will be provided with a FTTC.

Kind regards,
Walter

Hi Walter,

good point,just because the exchange is fttc enabled doesn't mean that every home pulling of that exchange will have a fibre optic connection.

So @ Zoe I wouldn't feel too  8) just yet.  ;D
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: des on September 10, 2010, 07:49:53 PM
PCP - is that the box somewhere in the street? Is there anywhere of finding out about if there is one available near me?
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 10, 2010, 08:22:25 PM
Hi Des,

For Joe public, only by looking or nabbing a passing BT Openreach engineer.

For those who need to know such as Communications providers, some can access BT records to give an approximation of the location.

If you were to pm Ezzer he might be able to help you or possibly if you were to give us your postcode somebody might be able to help.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: des on September 10, 2010, 09:09:00 PM
Thanks, waltergmw. SamKnows says my exchange, CMEARD, has an RFS date of 1/9/2010. My postcode is CV5 8GT, if anyone could do me a favour  :-X
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 11, 2010, 12:03:38 AM
Hi again DES,

BT's cable routes sometimes do quite strange things so I suspect you might need a good pair of walking boots !
Railways certainly don't help either.
Using http://www.uk.map24.com/ I see your direct road distance is about 1.54 km.
If you want to have a go I'd start with the B4107 and then perhaps the B4106.

Sometimes you'll find that cables are routed directly from the exchange on shorter routes, and I've yet to hear of those getting a FTTC service at all; they tend to be on the shorter routes with a reasonable speed on a 21CN WBC service. This should be available to you as it was enabled in July last year.

I've sent you with PM of an idea.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: des on September 11, 2010, 09:52:25 AM
Thanks again, Walter. Does FTTC require new street furniture? Are there any pictures available of what the cabinets look like. I suppose I could hire a band of street urchins to track them down, a penny a peice  8)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: roseway on September 11, 2010, 10:10:55 AM
Yes, FTTC cabinets are larger. You can see some photos here (http://www.trefor.net/tag/fttc-cabinet-photo/) for example.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 11, 2010, 10:43:51 AM
Hi Des,

You can see more examples here

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2010/03/06/uk-st-albans-residents-in-hissy-fit-over-bt-fttc-broadband-cabinets.html

http://www.relay-rutlandtelecom.co.uk/lyddington/index.html

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4301-vtesse-broadband-bring-next-generation-broadband-to-hertfordshire.html

Here's how NOT to go about an installation:-
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/i/4296.html

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 11, 2010, 02:57:57 PM
Hi  :)

Quote

BT's cable routes sometimes do quite strange things so I suspect you might need a good pair of walking boots !

Since I won't be walking anywhere.
I've come up with a Not Perfect .. But good enough for Me .. Idea!

Google Street Maps  :D

So Far... Found 2 green telephone boxes.
But neither of them look like shiny new FTTC cabinets  :no:


First One
Knew where to look for this one as it's been there since I was a child.
However!
1) It's Really Old!
2) It's in the opposite direction to the exchange ( Approx 1 minutes walk up the road )


Second One
1) Still Looks Old!
But...
2) It is in the direction of the exchange ( Approx 2 minutes walk down the road )
And...
3) Has a telephone pole right next to it.


Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 11, 2010, 03:56:49 PM
Hi  :)


Can I ask a question please  :blush:

Do telephone lines go from one pole to another pole until they reach the exchange?
OR
Do telephone lines sometimes get taken from a pole - to - Underground .. at some point?

Coz!
If I use Google Street Maps to follow our telephone line...
Can follow down the street to approx 5 telephone poles - & - Then there's.. Nothing!
The poles seem to stop connecting to each other  :-\

Also!
I've now realised that one half of our street ( Connected to one Pole ) follows one path to the exchange.
&                                                               <-  ->
The other half of our street ( Connected to a different Pole ) follows a totally different path to the exchange.


Thanks!

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: UncleUB on September 11, 2010, 04:04:35 PM
Quote
Do telephone lines go from one pole to another pole until they reach the exchange?
OR
Do telephone lines sometimes get taken from a pole - to - Underground .. at some point?

Hi Zoe  :)

Looking at the wooden pole across our road,the top of the pole feeds a few house,there is then a cable that runs down the pole(the bottom 8 feet or so is protected by steel sheathing) and goes underground.

I know it goes under the pavement because it has been cut twice..once by the street lamp people and once by the gas main people. :no:
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 11, 2010, 04:37:55 PM
Thanks UncleUB ;)

You wouldn't happen to know if the Green Cabs that have FTTC are always shiny and new?
OR
Does Openreach sometimes use the old ones?

I've found another green telephone box about 3 minutes walk down the road .. But it's another oldish looking one.

Zoe

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 11, 2010, 05:27:21 PM
Hi Zoe,

Are you sitting comfortably ? Then I'll begin...

It's impossible to say precisely how your line is routed to the exchange without talking to a local Openreach engineer.
However there are several quite distinct methods that are employed.
Both have E-side cables usually (but not exclusively) routed via underground cables to the exchange.

In areas such as yours the D side cable is routed either in ducts, or worse still buried directly in the ground, to a point near your house.
At that point the cable is brought up the pole usually to a joint sleeve and then to a distribution box at the top, where individual two pair drop cables are looped across to the houses.
If there are more lines further on you will see another cable leaving the joint sleeve and going back underground along to the next pole.

Sometimes, and particularly in more rural areas, the cable will come above ground to the same type of joint sleeve and distribution box, but then the ongoing cable is daisy-chained above ground along to the next pole(s).
In other areas the same methods are used but every cable is run in ducts or in the ground all the way to your house.
In blocks of flats a large cable enters the building and smaller cables are distributed usually in a service shaft to individual apartments.

Other arrangements can be used; one such method is for a group of small drop cables to be all looped overhead, sometimes in parallel with the larger D side cable(s), along one or more spans before they go off to individual houses.
This method is used to reduce the number of joint sleeves as each joint is a potential source of unreliability especially when human intervention is necessary !

This might sound complicated but if you look at the poles and joint pits you can guess how the routes are connected.
If you are that keen you can PM me with an e-mail address and I'll send you pictures of our local horror stories !

Where FTTC is installed, link cables connect the new cabinets to the existing cabinets so the broadband signal is injected at that point rather than at the exchange.
I believe that most BT FTTC use a "shared metallic path facility" so the broadband signal is Teed in to the phone line but BT wholesale also offer a "Full Metallic Path Facility" so that other Communications Providers can have the E side pair totally disconnected at that point. This latter method is similar to the full LLU that providers such as TalkTalk use in the exchange.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: CurlyWhirly on September 11, 2010, 05:35:02 PM
waltergmw, I'm just curious if you are a BT Openreach engineer as you seem to know a lot about telephone lines  :)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: UncleUB on September 11, 2010, 05:38:45 PM
Thanks UncleUB ;)

You wouldn't happen to know if the Green Cabs that have FTTC are always shiny and new?
OR
Does Openreach sometimes use the old ones?

I've found another green telephone box about 3 minutes walk down the road .. But it's another oldish looking one.

Zoe



Hi Zoe  :)

I think you can pick any colour you want.They have a colour swatch(I think patterned ones are extra) ::)  :D

Sorry. ;D

Tbh the pictures I have seen via the internet look quite a bit taller than the normal ones.(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:XZvHmVEoLa_nhM:http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7536/img49222.jpg&t=1)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: silversurfer44 on September 11, 2010, 05:46:33 PM
@CurlyWhirly I bet WalterGMW had a £1 for everytime he answers that question. I have asked it myself somewhere.  :)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 11, 2010, 05:50:28 PM
@ CurlyWhirly,

I am a retired telemetry communications engineer but I've never been a BT one.
However with this rather strange hobby of mine, I now know quite a few BT engineers who are mostly very fine fellows as well as some equally fine girls.

@ Zoe,

As the equipment required in a FTTC is quite different from the passive green cabinets which are just glorified junction boxes, all FTTC cabinets on BT supplied lines are new ones.
Some NTL (AKA Virgin Media) fibre to the cabinet solutions date back to the eighties I think but their arrangements are quite different using co-axial cables for broadband and TV with quite separate twisted pair phone lines.

Thank you SS but I'm still as poor as a church mouse !

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 11, 2010, 06:27:15 PM
Hi waltergmw    :)


Thanks For The Info  ;)

It's all so complicated... Don't think I'm ever going to figure out the exact route that our phone line takes to the exchange.

However!
My teenage son has pointed out something very interesting.
He's pretty sure that at least one Green Cab is missing from our area.
Google made the maps of my area last year ( 2009 )
And...
My son says that he's sure he's seen a second Green Cab just down the road, close to where the one in the picture below lives.
Both my son and mum...
Say they often see Openreach vans, When my mum takes my son to school in the mornings.
In Fact! .. They saw one the very first day my son went back to school after the holidays.

So!  :police:
It looks like Openreach is highly active in my area and New Green Cabs are starting to pop up.


Thanks!

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 11, 2010, 07:26:33 PM
Hi Zoe,

FTTC are easily distinguished as they will be within 100 m cable distance of the original green cabinets, are substantially larger and have lots of ventilation slots in them as they consume power which ends up as heat.

Before they go live you will see larger BT vans pulling and terminating the fibre cable in them.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 11, 2010, 09:12:44 PM
Hi Walter :)


I've now done a serious amount of Virtual Walking around my area via Google Street Maps :D
I've found quite a few of the old type green cabs during my journey today.
So! - If Nowt Else...
In a few years when Google has updated the Street Maps.
I should easily be able to find the new Green FTTC Cabs in my area  ;)

Thanks!

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on September 11, 2010, 11:02:55 PM
My exchange is scheduled for FTTC in Dec 2010.
Today I noticed a couple of BT spray painted markers on the pavement by the grass verge. One said "X BT < 130m" and the other "X BT > 140m". I paced from the second one and after about 170 steps arrived at the green BT cabinet.

Might write to BT to offer to host a FTTC cabinet in my front garden. Anybody know who to write to?

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 11, 2010, 11:35:31 PM
Hi Geep,

Do remember that BT Openreach staff will have to visit the cabinet many times and may need to park several vans there for extended periods.
The cabinets need fibre and twisted pair ducts as well as a power cable.

In addition I doubt if BT would want to go through wayleave procedures which they must do if their equipment is on private land.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 12, 2010, 01:52:36 PM
Hi geep   :)

Quote
after about 170 steps arrived at the green BT cabinet.

You should take a Photo of it - & - Post it so we can all see exactly what we should be looking out for  ;)

During the next 2 years...
Can see this becoming a great little adventure for us all .. :police: .. Hunt For The FTTC Green Cabs .. :lol:


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 12, 2010, 02:14:08 PM
@ Zoe,

Whilst I realise you've said your bit with tongue in cheek, given that smart phones with GPS facilities have apps such as Locate Me**,
it would be an excellent idea to record all FTTCs and PCPs in a Kitz or possibly SamKnows database so that we are no longer constrained by "regulatory compliance".

EDIT - I understand some data is already being entered in the Samknows web site but at present I have only found a general statement that BT's FTTC are enabled at a particular exchange.
I gather that not all PCPs within an exchange area would be provided.
Also I have not yet found other FTTC suppliers mentioned.

This data will be vital to compliment the existing services in order to be able to estimate expected line speeds to individuals' houses.

** http://appshopper.com/navigation/locateme-uk

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 13, 2010, 05:56:22 PM
Hi  :)


Will have to wait until I've seen them for myself - or - My son takes some pictures for me.
But...
Looks like he was right about there being at least one FTTC Green Cab just a minutes walk down the road from our house. ( Maybe 3 Cabs )
Half way between our house - & - The old green BT box that I took a Google Street Maps snap of the other day  8)

Just down the road from where I live... There's a Pub!
Google Street Maps of our area are from... 2009
The only green box that's currently showing up outside the pub on the 2009 G.S. Maps is a Recycle Bin.
However...
My son checked today on the way home from school - & - There is 3 new large green boxes on the pavement outside of the Pub. ( Not Recycle Bin )
So...
We Shall See!  ;)


Zoe

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 13, 2010, 06:34:02 PM
Hi  :)


Talking to my Son and Mum...

They tell me that the green boxes look just like the picture that UncleUB has posted.
&
As a guide to where the cabs are positioned.... See Mock-Up Pic Below!   :blush:



Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on September 13, 2010, 09:13:26 PM
How many lines ( is that the word?) will one cabinet serve?

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 13, 2010, 11:36:44 PM
Some FTTCs could take up to about 600 lines but it is unlikely that they would all be provisioned at the time of installation.
A smaller number of racks, printed circuit cards and connector blocks would probably be installed at the beginning.
I don't think that BT publish their capacities. However it's quite unlikely that every BT line in the existing green cabinets has an ADSL service upon it.

EDIT The following is a picture of a MSAN showing active Printed Circuit Boards and spare slots.

http://www.relay-rutlandtelecom.co.uk/images/lyddington/launch/P1080357.JPG

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: BritBrat on September 14, 2010, 09:25:43 AM

it would be an excellent idea to record all FTTCs and PCPs in a Kitz or possibly SamKnows database so that we are no longer constrained by "regulatory compliance".

EDIT - I understand some data is already being entered in the Samknows web site but at present I have only found a general statement that BT's FTTC are enabled at a particular exchange.
I gather that not all PCPs within an exchange area would be provided.
Also I have not yet found other FTTC suppliers mentioned.

Kind regards,
Walter

I think that would be a great idea and we could include a GPS location for each box, I bet it would be handy in the future for many people.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: BritBrat on September 14, 2010, 09:43:58 AM
I thought I found one near me.

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 14, 2010, 09:45:54 AM
@BB,

Are you going to volunteer to be coordinator ? !!!!!!

We all need to be aware of the emerging new data on the SamKnows site.
It is accurate but, as with so many other things requiring significant effort and full Communications Provider co-operation, it is only partially complete.
The following picture is shown when you drill down after I had entered the Lyddington pub's phone number and postcode in Samknows.

http://www.oldwhitehart.co.uk/#/contact-us/4539463747

Most who read here will know that Lyddington is famous as being the first FTTC provided by Rutland Telecom.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: tuftedduck on September 14, 2010, 09:49:34 AM
Ah...memories, memories... ;D

I know nothing of FTTC etc..........but that was my local during all the years that I toiled away earning an honest crust whilst resident in a foreign country.. :)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 14, 2010, 09:57:41 AM
@ TD,

I always thought you might have been mixed up with Guy Fawkes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See penultimate para here:-

http://www.britainexpress.com/counties/rutland/index.htm

(Sorry for the digression !)

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on September 14, 2010, 05:40:25 PM
"Old White Hart"! I'm sure they are on line for ATTB: that's something even more important to the residents. ;)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 14, 2010, 06:28:06 PM
Hi  :)


Got The Photo's!

Including one of the Pole that my mum and son forgot to mention until this morning  ::)

But...

Now I'm even more confused about what I've found   ???

1] Green Box ...  Quite Small
2] Green Box ... Large & Wide ( Vodafone - Label On  Bottom Right Side )
3] Pole ... Enormous & Fake Wood ( Got doors in it! )
4] Green Box ... Large & Tall ( O2 - Label On Bottom Right Side ) Note... Making one hell of a loud " Hum! " noise.

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on September 14, 2010, 07:02:34 PM
Hi Zoe,

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but all of those are cellular (mobile) base stations. The pretend pole is actually a mast with the antenna concealed therein.

What you're looking for is usually a single larger cabinet besdie or within 100 m of the BT Green cabinet.

In this area Virgin Media also have multiple cabinets where they are distributing co-axial cables from the Fibre node.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 14, 2010, 07:41:17 PM
Hi Walter  :)


Had a feeling that's what the explanation was going to be... Mobile Phone!  :blush:

Oh!-Well! .. The search For The FTTC Green Cabs...  Continue  :D

Thanks!

Zoe

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 14, 2010, 08:20:16 PM
Me Again!  :-[


Just Had To Say...

My mum and son have been out for the last few hours.
And...
I've been sitting here thinking.. " How did they Not Notice that Pole? " | " How could they have Forgot to mention that Pole? "
Mind You...
It's small enough to be easily missed.. Isn't It?  :no: :lol:
Anyway...
They have just come in and I've asked them... " How did you Not Notice that Pole until today? " | " How could you have Forgot to mention that Pole until today? "
The Answer... " It Wasn't There Before Today! "

The POLE must have been put up sometime between 3.30pm yesterday afternoon and 9am this morning  :-\

Zoe


PS.
When I think about it...
The pole did look brand new. ( Immaculately Clean )
No Bird Poop! .. No Graffiti .. No Doggy Do! .. Nothing!
So! - Can just about believe that it's only just got there over night.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on September 20, 2010, 06:15:13 PM

.... and have lots of ventilation slots in them

I trust they'll be great dane and yobbo proof >:D
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on September 20, 2010, 07:46:02 PM
That's exactly what I've been thinking...


.... and have lots of ventilation slots in them

I trust they'll be great dane and yobbo proof


As well as...
Baby Proof : Mum stops to chat with little  :baby:  in the pushchair | Baby sticks it's hand in in the Vent... Not Good!    :'(
Toddler Proof :  The baby might be asleep but the Toddler is sticking his lolly ice stick in the Vent  >:D
Teenager Proof :  Mum's about to spot teenager hangin out  8)  having a sneaky fag. | Quick! - Shove the lit fag in the Vent to get rid of it  ::)


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 12, 2010, 03:25:18 PM
Hi :)


Guess What?

My mum thinks she really has found an FTTC Green Cab this time  ::)

Tall .. Green .. Vents

Located just around the corner from the old BT box in the picture below.

Can't go and see it for myself just yet  :no:
Coz our street is having road and path Works Done - & - There's Tar Everywhere!
So...
Save our carpets having Tar Tire Tracks all over them.
I'm confined to the house until the road works are complete  >:(

As soon as I can escape... I'll Go Get Some Pics!

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 12, 2010, 03:54:19 PM
Me Again  :blush:


My mum has just been to pick my son up from School - & - Spotted 3 more FTTC Green Cabs along the way 8)

Also!
Forgot to mention above...
My mum has actually seen BT Openreach digging up and laying something down into the streets.
Including the one just round the corner from us... The one I'll be going to take pictures of   ;D

Between the noise the road works in my street has been causing - & - Openreach being such a busy little BeeT...
No wonder my broadband speed is all over the place at the moment  ::)


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 12, 2010, 05:02:48 PM
Hi Zoe,

So you can be fully informed you should expect to see:-

1.  A single new larger BT cabinet being installed within 100 metres cable run from the existing old BT PCP Green cabinet.
2.  Possibly a new joint pit in the path near the new cabinet.
3.  An electricity supply being installed in the new cabinet
4.  One or more tie cables being installed between the old and the new cabinets
5.  A fibre cable being installed in the new cabinet.

6. Possibly the old PCP being "re-sleeved" I.e. A larger new metal box being fitted around the "birds-nest" of existing twisted pair wires.

7.  Little BT Openreach vans in vast profusion over months to connect each new broadband consumer to the new cabinet

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 12, 2010, 07:33:19 PM

Hi Walter  :)


I'll take pictures of everything I think relevant  ;)


Just wish Openreach would plant an FTTC Cab just that little bit closes to our house.
OR
At least in the right direction  ::)

Like...
The one my mum has found Today round the corner from us.
It's only about a minutes walk to get to it.
But... It's going in the wrong direction from the exchange.

Example!

                [ FTTC ]
                     |
                     |
           [  My House  ]
                     |
                     |
                     |
                     |
                     |
                     |
                     |
                     |
                     |
           [  Exchange  ]


So I can't really see how it could ever be the FTTC Cab that would feed my streets broadband  :-\


However!
If Openreach were to put an FTTC Cab next to the old BT Box in the picture below... That Would Be About Right!



Example!

                [ FTTC ]
                     |
                     |
           [  My House  ]
                     |
                     |
                     |
                [ FTTC ]
                     |
                     |
                     |
                     |
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           [  Exchange  ]

It would be a little bit further away. ( 2 to 3 minutes walk )
But it would be going in the right direction  8)

       

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on October 12, 2010, 09:15:19 PM
Not too far from me is a cabinet with vents an' all within the suggested 50m distance from an existing cabinet.

Downside is that beside it is a long pole with a loo brush object at the top. They belong to T-Mobile :lol:
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 13, 2010, 12:31:15 AM
Hi Zoe,

The initial direction is not the actual problem. You will frequently find lines going in the opposite direction before they meet another cable heading back for the exchange.
Distance is also not of great concern. Provided a new FTTC is installed say within 1 km of your house, and is linked into your particular PCP green cabinet and cable routing, you should be able to get a very good signal and therefore speed.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 13, 2010, 01:53:55 PM
Hi renluop  :)

Not too far from me is a cabinet with vents an' all within the suggested 50m distance from an existing cabinet.

Downside is that beside it is a long pole with a loo brush object at the top. They belong to T-Mobile

What you've found sounds very much like what I found a few weeks ago  :blush:
In My Case... O2 - & - Vodaphone  ( See Pic Below )


However!
This Time... I'm Certain It's FTTC  ;)


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 13, 2010, 01:59:00 PM
Hi Walter  :)

Hi Zoe,

The initial direction is not the actual problem. You will frequently find lines going in the opposite direction before they meet another cable heading back for the exchange.
Distance is also not of great concern. Provided a new FTTC is installed say within 1 km of your house, and is linked into your particular PCP green cabinet and cable routing, you should be able to get a very good signal and therefore speed.

Kind regards,
Walter


That's Great News!
Coz I'm sure the Green Cab that my mum's found must be well short of 1 km.
I'll have a go with Google Street Maps in a min... Work Out The Distance!


Thanks!  ;)

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 13, 2010, 03:19:47 PM
Hi Walter  :)


     ---------------------------------------------------  [  FTTC  ]
    |                                                                        |                                                                                            
    |                                                                  0.2 Miles                                                                  
    |                                                                  0.32 km                                                                            
    |                                                                        |                                                                                            
    |                                                             [  My House  ]
    |                                                                        |                                                                                            
1.3 Miles                                                                |
 2.09 km                                                                 |
    |                                                                        |
    |                                                                  1.1 Miles
    |                                                                  1.77 km
    |                                                                        |
    |                                                                        |
    |                                                                        |
    |                                                                        |
    |                                                                        |
     -----------------------------------------------  [  Exchange  ]






Two Pictures Below...

1) Old BT Box
2) Old BT Box - & - Where My Mum Says The New FTTC Green Cab Lives  ;D


            
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 14, 2010, 09:02:23 PM
Hi  :)


I'm hopefully going to be taking the Pics tomorrow.
But!
I've just done a BT Infinity check  :-\  ( See Picture Below )
The result was rather a shock  :(  ( Way short of 40 mbps )
Mind You!
As my line rental is with AOL rather than BT ... Had to do test with House Number and Postcode rather than Phone Number.

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 14, 2010, 11:31:16 PM
Hi Zoe,

Do remember this is a new set of products that BT are offering so they may still be experimenting.
Any estimate (particularly where BT don't have access to the existing line's performance) must be regarded with caution and will still depend upon the state of your internal wiring as well as BT's.
BT obviously want to avoid disappointment and ensuing arguments.

This is one reason why I'm not at all keen on the Infinity advertisements which might well give a false sense optimism.
Please note that the BT network is mainly of old copper and aluminium alloy twisted pair construction so the chances of many achieving the maximum is likely to be quite small.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on October 15, 2010, 09:19:35 AM
Though one would assume they were working to some formula, perhaps based on where cabinets are intended for installation.

FTTC cabinets should be nearer to the premises than the exchange,s o it seems strange that with ADSL2+I can connect on my marginal benefit at 7100, 87% of 8128, whilst the figures given by BT are ~35% of the theoretical 40mbps.

What could be the reason, my logic, or does the interface to the copper cause considerable attenuation which  together account for the seemingly rapid fall off?

Opening just below rear hairline is now closed. :baby:
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 15, 2010, 09:55:36 AM
@ renluop,

I'm afraid my expectations of any such estimators are very close to zero.
The worst one I'm aware of using the older ADSL checker gave a forecast speed of 6 Meg but the line barely remains in sync.
Furthermore I've heard of several reports that the BT database of PCP locations can be widely out.
One on our patch was reported with a postcode 3 km away from the actual position.

We are of course dealing here with a product that is providing a service to infinity !
(One only has to consider the physical definition of the word and observe how the beautiful marketeers distort the implication of its meaning.)

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 15, 2010, 01:34:40 PM
Hi  :)


Here We Go...

Picture No: 1 | The New BT Box .. ( Has replaced the old BT Box that I showed you the other day )

Picture No: 2 | The Underground FTTC Join Up .. ( Runs From The New BT Box - to - The New FTTC Green Cab )

Picture No: 3 | View Of The Distance .. ( The distance between... The BT Box - & - The FTTC Green Cab )

Picture No: 4 | The New FTTC Green Cab  ;)


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 15, 2010, 01:53:19 PM
Hi Walter  :)

Hi Zoe,

Do remember this is a new set of products that BT are offering so they may still be experimenting.
Any estimate (particularly where BT don't have access to the existing line's performance) must be regarded with caution and will still depend upon the state of your internal wiring as well as BT's.
BT obviously want to avoid disappointment and ensuing arguments.

This is one reason why I'm not at all keen on the Infinity advertisements which might well give a false sense optimism.
Please note that the BT network is mainly of old copper and aluminium alloy twisted pair construction so the chances of many achieving the maximum is likely to be quite small.

Kind regards,
Walter



Don't Worry... I Know  ;)

To Be Honest...
It will probably be much longer than December before I get FTTC   :(
Coz...
1) Can't Afford BT Infinity!
2) I'd like to hopefully wait until as a natural progression of things... AOL Offers Me FTTC  :-\

From Day One ( 2006 ) .. I've been paying AOL £14.99 for my Broadband.
First..  Upto 1mbps
Then..  Upto 2mbps
Next..   Upto 8mbps
Now..    Upto 24mbps

I've always had to wait approx 6 months longer for the next step up in speed.. Than my next door neighbour.
But that's because their happy to pay twice the price.

I could never afford to pay more than say £20 per month  :no:
And as even £20 would be a struggle... I'll probably be waiting until AOL gives me FTTC for my same old £14.99 per month.


Thanks!

Zoe

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 15, 2010, 02:08:34 PM
Hi Zoe,

You've discovered one of the major commercial difficulties of this approach.
AOL i.e. Car Phone Warehouse have invested a significant amount of money in providing and installing their equipment in the exchange which would become useless if everyone joined the FTTC campaign.
It would cost them even more to remove the equipment at the end of a period when their return on investment decreases as consumers transfer to FTTC.

Add to that the speed uncertainty of the new FTTC service at extra cost to you, I see little benefit in spending more of your money even in the medium term.

From Car Phone Warehouse's viewpoint, why should they bother when they perceive a quite reasonable broadband service is already in place ?

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 15, 2010, 02:47:41 PM
Hi Walter  :)


Pretty Certain... Carphone Warehouse doesn't own AOL any more  :no:

AOL is owned by Talk Talk

Both... AOL - & - Talk Talk .. Are owned by... Opal 

One Bit Of Good News!
Talk Talk is supposedly going to be one of the First ISP's to go FTTC  ;D
&
Talk Talk is already running FTTC Trials : http://broadband.talktalk.co.uk/fibre-optic-trial
&
See Here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11491528
&
See Here: http://tinyurl.com/23uuxtj


So Now... Guess I just sit tight and wait   ???
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: tuftedduck on October 15, 2010, 03:03:19 PM
Carphone Warehouse own Opal, as well as AOL ( in UK) and TalkTalk
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 15, 2010, 03:22:43 PM
Hi tuftedduck   :)


See Here: http://tinyurl.com/35jskn7
&
See Here: http://www.talktalk.co.uk/information/aboutus/

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 18, 2010, 01:05:20 PM
Hi  :)


My mum was walking the dog this morning and she saw Openreach working on the FTTC Cab again.
She said it looked like they were fitting cables inside it.

Happy!
As although the FTTC Cab is actually going in the wrong direction to the exchange... It is the Closest : 322 meters
However!
I'd be even happier if I saw the other 2 near by BT Boxes also get an FTTC makeover. ( Just to be sure at least one of them is mine )

Saying That!
I was doing some calculations the other night   ::)

Me - to - FTTC Cab = 0.32 km

FTTC Cab - to - Exchange = 2.09 km

Me - to - FTTC Cab - to - Exchange = 2.41 km

Note: My Attenuation Is... 34.5 db  = 2.5 km

That's Pretty Close!
OR
Is it just a Coincidence?  :-\



Sam Says... See Pic Below  ;)



Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 19, 2010, 01:44:02 PM
Hi Zoe,

Because your broadband signal on a FTTC solution leaves the cabinet via a fibre connection the length of line is irrelevant.
The only distance (and line quality) which matters is that between your house master socket and the existing PCP green cabinet together with the short link cable form the PCP to the FTTC.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 19, 2010, 03:59:33 PM
Hi Walter  :)


There are 4 BT Cabs that can't be ruled out as being mine  :-\

Cab Distance From My House

1] FTTC Cab = 322 meters   ( The one I've been talking about and posted the pictures of )
2] Not FTTC Yet = 483 meters
3] Not FTTC Yet = 483 meters
4] FTTC Cab = 966 meters   ( Pretty Much.. Exactly half way between my house and the exchange )

Unlikely To Be Number 4
Especially if they FTTC number 2 or 3
As you'd have to go past number 2 or number 3 to get to number 4.

Thanks!  ;)

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: silversurfer44 on October 19, 2010, 05:15:37 PM
No.4 is likely to be yours then Zoe.  ;D
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 19, 2010, 06:24:11 PM
Hi silversurfer44  :)


Quote
No.4 is likely to be yours then Zoe.


Maybe!  ::)  Maybe Not!  :P

BT FTTC Checker Has Been Updated!
Apparently...
Quote
Showing more realistic and less conservative estimates for FTTC performance downstream.
See Here: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/3916448-bt-fttc-checker-updated.html

Just Done 2 Tests!
1] BT Infinity Check
2] BT Wholesale Check
See Results Below  ;)

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 19, 2010, 07:04:58 PM
Hi Zoe,

I'm intrigued to know how the various new BT line estimators work.

Would you please be kind enough to do a BT speed test for us and take a picture of the result, hiding any private data such as your actual phone number.

http://speedtester.bt.com/

That should help us observe how the calculations actually work.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 19, 2010, 07:54:55 PM
Hi Walter  :)

Quote
Would you please be kind enough to do a BT speed test for us and take a picture of the result, hiding any private data such as your actual phone number.


I'm afraid that I can't Walter  :no:
Coz I don't have my Phone Line with BT any more.
We pay our Line Rental to AOL.

Guess that's why BT give people like me the option to take the Broadband Checks by....

a) BT Infinity : http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=29019 ( Used My...  House Number - & - Postcode )

b) BT Wholesale : http://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html  ( Used My... Full Address - & - Postcode )

However!
Did Do A Speed Test For You...

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/996718678.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 19, 2010, 08:23:38 PM
Hi Zoe,

That was exactly what I wanted to see ! BT can only be using a best guess as they do not have access to an unbundled provider's data.
This suggests that they may be comparing the results perhaps with another known BT line of similar distance from the same cabinet.
In any case that must be a risky process and the results should probably not be taken as an accurate reflection of what you might achieve, always assuming you are prepared to pay the higher fees.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 19, 2010, 09:20:27 PM
Hi Walter  :)


BT is probably using the data from when our phone line was with them.
Wasn't that long ago... Only April This Year  :-\

Also!
ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 7.5 Mbps
That's exactly the same as what AOL admitted my Upto 24 Mbps connection should be capable of achieving.
Of Course!
This was after they'd already tricked me in to a new contract with them  >:(
Didn't know even half back then... Of what I know now!
Thankfully!
1) We are really happy with the savings that's being made by being with AOL ( Broadband £14.99 + Line Rental £11.25 = Total £26.24 per month ) Free UK Calls!
2) At least I'm getting a little bit more than 7.5 Mbps  See Pics Below!
Quote
always assuming you are prepared to pay the higher fees.

Already Said...
Can't Afford BT Infinity!   :no:
But...
The future travels fast - & - You never know what might happen  ;)


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: UncleUB on October 20, 2010, 07:03:13 AM
Hi Zoe  :)

Looking at your speed tests posted above,I would count yourself very lucky to be getting 8 to 10mb,millions of users are lucky to get anywhere near a quarter of those speeds,and paying the same if not more in some case.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 20, 2010, 09:04:13 AM
Hi Zoe,

It's impossible to know exactly what calculations BT are using until they are prepared to tell us.
We all know Infinity can't be reached, neither will an expensive marketing budget provide the actual broadband connections.
However if BT won't, and can't, accept your telephone number I think it's safe to say they have lost access to your older line data.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 20, 2010, 12:06:11 PM
Hi .. UncleUB - & - Walter  :)


Quote
Looking at your speed tests posted above,I would count yourself very lucky to be getting 8 to 10mb,millions of users are lucky to get anywhere near a quarter of those speeds,and paying the same if not more in some case.

I know that UncleUB  ;)

With an Attenuation of 34.5
Reckon I'm just on the very edge of where ( ADSL2+ ) an Upto 24 Mbps connection.. Can make a difference.

And I only have to read the Talk Talk Forum to remind myself how lucky I am.
So many people on Talk Talk Upto 24 Mbps.
Only a very small percentage of people getting anywhere near 24 Mbps.
In Fact...
Only a small percentage of people getting over 10 Mbps.
Few people getting something more like... 8 Mbps to 10 Mbps
Many more people getting something more like... 5 Mbps to 7 Mbps
And a large percentage of people only getting speeds like 2 Mbps to 4 Mbps  :o


Can't help being fascinated by all this FTTC Stuff though  :blush:

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: UncleUB on October 20, 2010, 01:27:52 PM
Hi Zoe  :)

Quote
And a large percentage of people only getting speeds like 2 Mbps to 4 Mbps   :o

Moi  ;D

I get around 2.5mb with O2 LLU ADSL2+,

When I was with BT I was lucky to get 1.5mb  :no:

I look forward to the day when I can go and take photo's of the FTTC boxes on our estate  ::)  :D
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 20, 2010, 03:49:54 PM
Hi UncleUB  :)

Quote
I look forward to the day when I can go and take photo's of the FTTC boxes on our estate

What I'd like to know is...
How do Openreach decide where exactly to plant the FTTC cabs within a given area  :-\

You know I said there are 4 BT cabs... 1 = FTTC | 2 = Not FTTC Yet | 3 = Not FTTC Yet | 4 = FTTC

Well!
If Openreach decide to leave out Cabs 2 and 3 - & - Not make them FTTC ... There will be something very odd about that.

Coz...
Cab 1 | Has been planted on the corner of lets just say... Some of the more wealthy housing estates.
Note: It Could Still Be My Cab!  ( As it is the closest to me )
I'm just down the road, at the top end of one of the more less wealthy housing estates  :blush:

Cab 4 |  Has been planted on the corner of...
a) Again.. Small estate of wealth
b) Also.. Shops Nearby
c) The Worst Thing... It's really NOT very far from the Exchange  >:(
The people that live near Cab 4 probably already get really good speeds.

Cabs 2 and 3
Are in less wealthy areas ( Especially Cab 3 )  :(
And this makes me worry that they may not get the FTTC treatment.

Zoe

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 20, 2010, 04:56:35 PM
Hi Zoe,

The whole FTTC business is cloaked in BT's usual mystery practices.
Your area is no different from many others.
E.g. Basingstoke has had the phase 1 FTTC treatment but there were so many complaints that they are reviewing the remainder, but still with no assurance that all PCP's will be addressed.
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/btsupplier/3743621-fttc-basingstoke.html
BT will probably try to estimate the likely installation costs including the amount of fibre to be installed, the return on their investment as well as considering the more practical aspects such as the number of existing broadband users served by the PCP, the quality, material (Cu or Al) and length of the D side lines, whether or not Virgin have a competing product etc.

Apart from Lyddington & Erbistock etc. there are many folk who are just not prepared to wait for infinity !

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dH_3KXTP4LI&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dH_3KXTP4LI&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: silversurfer44 on October 20, 2010, 05:11:57 PM
Surely someone at BT should be taking note that a number of potential users are doing exactly what is shown on the youtube clip. If they got their fingers out that customer base could be using BT equipment and services. I take my hat off to these people.
I believe I asked before about what happened to the great roll-out of some fibre. All the main roads around here were dug up and fibre was laid, or to be laid, in ducting. Green cabinets were erected as far as the exchange, but that seems to be as far as the project went. How could I find out more about the project? Do you know Walter? or anyone else for that matter please.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on October 20, 2010, 06:17:28 PM
Hi Colin,

I'm sorry I don't have any detailed knowledge of your area's projects but here are a few links I've just Googled.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/31733/leeds-gets-first-100mbps-broadband

https://www.nynet.co.uk/

http://www.digitalregionbroadband.co.uk/news-events/2010/10/18/Digital_Region_Broadband_secures_another_key_partner_Digital_Exchange/

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: silversurfer44 on October 20, 2010, 06:38:40 PM
Thank you for that Walter.
The project that I am mentioning is from a number of years back, how many ? The thing is that there is a ready made fibre infrastructure or at least part of one just going to waste. I am making a somewhat determined effort to find out why we had to put up with the dug up pavements, promises of the service and at the end of the day nothing.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 20, 2010, 08:01:37 PM
Hi  :)



Cab 1 - Not My Cab  :no:
In Fact...
Cab 1 : Is actually called Cab Number 16.
( See 1st Picture )

Cab 2 - Not My Cab!
In Fact...
Cab 2 : I'm not sure is even a real cab any more  :-\
It's either a real cab that isn't going to get the FTTC Treatment.
OR...
It's Not a Normal Cab!
NOTE: It's the only cab out of the 4 that has a Telephone Pole next to it. ( See 2nd Picture )


Cab 3 - I'm Now Pretty Certain.. My Cab!
In Fact...
Cab 3 : I'm almost certain is Cab Number 18.
Not Yet FTTC  :'(
My cab is... Cab 18
( See 3rd Picture )


Cab 4
- Not My Cab!
In fact...
Cab 4 : Is almost certainly Cab Number 17.
( See 4th Picture )


How Do I Know?

1] By checking this map : http://www.trefor.net/tech-pages/availability-checker/
The FTTC Cab I Took Pictures Of Has To Be Cab Number 16.

2] The FTTC Cab I was calling... Cab 4 is actually Cab Number 17
Know this must be true!
a) Because the map indicated in that direction.
b) The Old Cab had a number 17 on it. ( See 4th Picture )



Zoe



Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: gundofox on October 20, 2010, 08:50:00 PM
Thank you for that Walter.
The project that I am mentioning is from a number of years back, how many ? The thing is that there is a ready made fibre infrastructure or at least part of one just going to waste. I am making a somewhat determined effort to find out why we had to put up with the dug up pavements, promises of the service and at the end of the day nothing.

Hello all...

Could this have been Virgin's infrastructure?
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: silversurfer44 on October 20, 2010, 09:03:06 PM
Hello and welcome gundofox,
I have a feeling that Virgin took it on from maybe NTL. Although it never got finished. If it is now Virgin then they have a thorn in the side of BT as it's in the way.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: gundofox on October 20, 2010, 09:16:26 PM
Essentially Virgin are already offering a fibre to the cab service, although their adverts would suggest its fibre all the way to your house...
Fibre to the prem will be interesting!
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: UncleUB on October 21, 2010, 07:10:43 AM
Essentially Virgin are already offering a fibre to the cab service, although their adverts would suggest its fibre all the way to your house...
Fibre to the prem will be interesting!

Virgin already have fibre to your house(if you are lucky enough)

They house I use to live in had fibre to the house in 1994.(then it was by a company called Yorkshire Cable),who were replace by Telewest,then NTL I think and now its a company called.......Virgin.  :)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on October 21, 2010, 07:38:59 PM
The map ha been closed at request of BTo. acting as the usual unhelpful bar stewards. >:(
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on October 21, 2010, 07:58:32 PM
Hi renluop   :)


And I'm just as angry as you are  >:(

Note!
Found out today that my cab 18
Isn't The NON FTTC one with the Street Light next to it.
The old BT Cab 18 was just down the road hiding in a hedge  :blush:
That's why I didn't find it with Google Street maps ( In fact... Went straight past It! )
And...
The Good News!
My Cab 18 .. Is in the process of having the FTTC Treatment   :D

Old Cab 18 - See Pic Below!

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on November 05, 2010, 06:04:24 PM
Have seen the BT OpenReach guys installing new cabinets just a few hundred metres from my house.
Due to go live Dec 2010.

Some other folks in the town got one right outside their window:
http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/Bishops-Stortford/Bishops-Stortford-couple-shocked-as-BT-cabinet-appears-outside-their-home.htm (http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/Bishops-Stortford/Bishops-Stortford-couple-shocked-as-BT-cabinet-appears-outside-their-home.htm)
They are not happy bunnies!

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: silversurfer44 on November 05, 2010, 07:52:07 PM
I don't know what they are complaining about. I think it's an improvement to the property. ::)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: BritBrat on November 05, 2010, 10:15:36 PM
I don't know if this improves my none existent chances :)

UK Somerset Schools to Benefit from New BT Fibre Optic Broadband Network (http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2010/10/25/uk-somerset-schools-to-benefit-from-new-bt-fibre-optic-broadband-network.html)

Quote
The network itself will be built on BT UK's 21st Century Network (21CN) and make use of its national Next Generation Access (NGA) platform and FTTP data download speeds of up to 100Mbps. Rollout is expected to start over the next few weeks and should be largely completed by 31st March 2011.


School is between me and the exchange but not far away.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on November 10, 2010, 07:24:31 PM
Hi  :)


Look What I've Found Today...
The FTTC Cab Map.. Is Back: http://staging.trefor.net/tech-pages/availability-checker/  8)


Not exactly sure how long it's been there  :-\
As it's still not on the main page of the website.
Only realised it was there ( Somewhere ) when someone on another forum was talking about it.

Anyone Interested?
Grab a Look... Quick!
Just in case it disappears again  :'(

Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 12, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I must be missing something, or perhaps zee leetle grey cells ave gone walkies ;D, but I cannpt find what the red, blue, and, purple rings with numbers mean.

Help guys!
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on November 12, 2010, 11:15:59 AM
I just found this explanation from "tref" buried in the comments here:
http://www.trefor.net/tech-pages/availability-checker/comment-page-1/#comment-5885 (http://www.trefor.net/tech-pages/availability-checker/comment-page-1/#comment-5885)
just after I asked the question over on his forum.

"As far as the colour coding goes there isn’t a science – I think the colours came with the google API. The numbers are more meaningful – they represent the number of postcodes covered by the circle".


Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 12, 2010, 12:19:02 PM
Thanks for that :)

From http://www.freemaptools.com/distance-between-uk-postcodes.htm and the checker I have found that my exchange is phase 5b, my cabinet is #12, and roasdistance from cabinet post code to mine is 0.264 mile, though I am at the far end of the cul-de-sac.

Hmm, I bet blistering speeds NOT, motorised zimmer maybe.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on November 12, 2010, 12:50:46 PM
According to the map, my actual postcode and several adjacent postcodes list the same cabinet #15.
I saw BT install a new cabinet a couple of weeks back - will go see if it has a label with #15 on it.

I have the idea that the map shows green cabinets for every postcode that is to be connected to a FTTC cabinet.
So if your postcode doesn't have a cabinet - no FTTC.

My sister in Kent is connected to Aylesford exchange. When I look on the map I see green cabinets in the next street to hers 200m away, but they are connected to West Malling. Her actual postcode doesn't have a cabinet.

Are you sure that you are connected to the same exchange as listed when you click on the cabinet?
Edit - added: Not sure I understand what you are showing the distance between?
Do you know the actual location of the FTTC cabinet?

Cheers,
Peter


Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 12, 2010, 01:38:59 PM


I do know the location of cab 12. It is by the junction at marker B on the map I attached and clearly marked too.[edit ]The map hows distance from postcode of current #12 cab and postcode of my house, which is a small cul de sac,[/ edit]

Goodness knows how the numbering goes: the next one southward is 8.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on November 12, 2010, 02:19:43 PM
Round here they are installing brand new cabinets. What I assume to be cabinet #15 is up the road and round the corner.

I see engineering works for an (assumed) new cabinet straight down the road. It seems to be #26 as adjacent postcodes are connected to it. Naturally we are closer to #26 than to #15.

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on November 12, 2010, 03:00:18 PM
Hi geep  :)

According to the map, my actual postcode and several adjacent postcodes list the same cabinet #15.
I saw BT install a new cabinet a couple of weeks back - will go see if it has a label with #15 on it.



Yep!  ;)
Tons of postcodes can all be connected to just one Cab.

There is an FTTC Cab just a minutes walk up the road from me: Cab 16 .. Not Mine!
Luckily!
There's another FTTC Cab just a minutes walk down the road from me: Cab 18 .. Mine!  ;D


Quote
I have the idea that the map shows green cabinets for every postcode that is to be connected to a FTTC cabinet.
So if your postcode doesn't have a cabinet - no FTTC.

Also...

Green Cab = FTTC

Gray Cab = NO FTTC


Zoe
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on November 12, 2010, 07:25:07 PM
It is important to understand that these notices must be rather simplistic and do not necessarily reflect the actual cabling.
Post codes were not invented for BT and you will find many that span 2 PCPs.
Friday afternoons happen frequently so you may find a few lines allocated to say GU1 1ZZ which, as you have guessed, does not exist.
Furthermore the post codes can be (infrequently) changed but it does not seem to trigger a re-work of that section of the database upon all occasions.

In our area I know of one cabinet which ran out of E side pairs so there is a tie cable to another PCP that presumably had more spares available.
The very least this means is that a single PCP can also act as a SCP for those circuits connected via the tie cable.
Obviously if there is a choice of FTTC the SCP one would be better as it reduces the total D side length.
It is also not unknown for BT records to be inaccurate and in some cases non-existent, but I suspect many of those are in remote areas without any chance of FTTC anyway.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 12, 2010, 08:30:24 PM
Oddly even though I can identify cab 12, there is much nearer me a much smaller cab no more than 45cms long and definitely BT's.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on November 13, 2010, 10:57:17 PM
Hi Renluop,

Can you see your cabinet hereabouts ?

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/wiring_cabs.htm

or could you post a picture ?

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 14, 2010, 07:12:18 AM
I'll get some pics of both cab 12 and the little one that's nearer.

Of course no FTTC cab planted yet ( well they are green ;D), the projected date being 09/2011'
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: silversurfer44 on November 14, 2010, 08:29:28 AM
What an interesting website Walter, also the one that was linked to (THG).
Thank you.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: BritBrat on November 14, 2010, 08:43:53 AM
Nice find I think the list (http://www.trefor.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/exchanges.htm) is easier to read.


Green Cab = FTTC
Gray Cab = NO FTTC

Zoe

Mine is green on the map but I would take that with a pinch of salt.

Interesting read:
Yes Minister 2010 and Digital Britain (http://www.trefor.net/2010/11/05/yes-minister-2010-and-digital-britain/)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: BritBrat on November 14, 2010, 09:15:50 AM
On closer inspection that map is useless.

The postcodes do not match the cabinet area or the exchange ref no or even the correct physical location.

Cross check yours with samknows.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on November 14, 2010, 11:45:29 AM
Seems accurate here from the 2 cabinets I checked out. I found cabinets #9 and #26 in the street, and the postcodes close by all list the relevant cabinet. Across the road from existing #26 a new cabinet is under construction. Exchange code OK too.

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 14, 2010, 12:33:37 PM
I'm with Peter on this. I too know the location of two cabs. I have checked various local postcodes and have found that the cab they are supposedly linked to is logical
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on November 14, 2010, 03:07:40 PM
Hi BritBrat  :)

The little cabs on the map aren't real Cabs - & - Don't show the locations of the actual real cabs  :no:

However!
What You'll Notice...
There's a cab on the map for each postcode.
Clicking the little cab then tells you things like...
1) Exchange Code
2) Cab Number
3) % of lines that a Cab will be able to provide with FTTC

Like... geep & renlulop
The map shows everything accurate for me.
3 FTTC Cabs in my area... 16, 17, 18
I know where each of them live - & - Cab number 18 is mine.

Zoe


PS.

Almost Forgot!  :blush:
Samknows FTTC Result Below....
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 15, 2010, 08:09:16 PM
Pics herewith
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on November 15, 2010, 08:30:16 PM
Hi Renluop,

Pace Kitz, but we could do with a larger image of the small cabinet. The larger cabinet is a reasonably modern standard PCP.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on November 15, 2010, 08:34:14 PM
Hi renluop  :)


Picture 1 = Normal Modern Cab

Picture 2 = FTTC Cab

Note!

In The Pictures...
See the mark in the pavement shows how one Cab is connected to the other  ;)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 15, 2010, 08:45:24 PM
New pic :)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 18, 2010, 04:30:25 PM
Last pic...no good? ;D
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on November 18, 2010, 07:33:27 PM
It's an excellent picture but it certainly isn't either a FTTC cab or, perhaps more importantly, if it is a BT cabinet there would be precious little room to install the link cable terminations.

It might have some entirely different function though.

You'll nee to keep an eagle eye on it and see what's inside, maybe asking the investigator what it does.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on November 19, 2010, 06:51:11 PM
I feel that I may well have caused confusion, as I in no way meant that there was a FTTC cab 12; merely that I know the location of the standard cab. :-[

I looked at it little brother and it has the piper logo. Doesn't seem to have had attention for ages.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on November 25, 2010, 03:19:06 PM
Hi  :)


Happy Day!  ;D

I'm now 100% certain of where my FTTC cab is living.
Coz...
Had to go out! - So asked my mum could she drive us past what I believed to be our cab... No: 18
Couldn't take Photo's coz it was too cold.
But!
Even from the car I could see the new PCP Box or whatever they're called... Has a number 18 on it!
And just a few meters away... It's Big Brother FTTC Cab  8)


Zoe

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on February 19, 2011, 08:16:04 PM
Well things are starting to move at STRINGW. BTO were pulling though cables near one of their cabinets. I asked and was told the work was for FTTC.

Wasting time until as bus came I took a few pics down the hole.Read 544/5/6. The pullthrogh is in blue. Burley label refers to a slave exchange about 4 miles distant. Hope pics are of some minimal interest. What's the big black cylinder?
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on February 19, 2011, 11:38:27 PM
Hi Renluop,

So the New Forest Jungle is about to be lit with fibre !

It's what it says on the tin in your second picture - a fibre cable joint.

It's a pity you couldn't get a better picture from the cable entry end but as there are cables of different diameters I suspect this is a branch joint with a large incomer probably being split into two smaller outgoers, one for the local FTTC.
Remember glass fibres are very fragile being usually 50 or 62.5 microns (thousandths of a mm) so they must be supported properly once they no longer have the protective packing inside the cable.

What is not obvious from this joint pit is that the fibre joint is attached to the galvanised arm which can be raised vertically to work on the fibre joint.

Worse still if another contractor comes along with a pneumatic drill or elephant's foot rammer the fibres can be jolted thus cracking them and often ruining their light transmissivity.

I hope somebody actually involved in fibre cable installation might be able to add some more detail.

You'll also find some more pictures here:-

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/i/4440.html

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: razpag on February 20, 2011, 03:27:16 PM
I'm not involved with Fibre Cab installation, but (having just read the last page of this thread) may be able to add a little something. The pictures that are posted above, some are original PCP' some are Fibre (DSLAM) PCP's. The point I want to get over is that when they do FTTC in your area, the existing PCP will remain where it is, the new Fibre PCP will be situated within 100 mts of the existing PCP. point being, you may not even realise where the new PCP is sited.

Regarding Fibre Joints/Cables Walter .........  the glass is admittedly fragile but the actual 'cable' its carried in is quite hardy. The Joint in that picture strapped to the cable bearers in the joint-box, can be as easily lifted out and worked on as a copper/ali joint would.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: renluop on February 20, 2011, 04:18:30 PM
Sorry about pic quality. The attachemt size limit does not make for good pics. It was cold and I did not want to fall in and cut off a load of folks. And I'd've missed my bus;)

I assumed also that the three cables top of pics are the standard ones.

@raz. I'll find the new PCP no matter how well hidden.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on February 21, 2011, 07:32:05 PM
Hi Raz,

Two minor points:-

It would not surprise me if BT invent a new name for a FTTC as it is not really a Primary Connection Point, nor a Secondary one.
A twisted pair from the consumer's house stays as usual connected into the PCP but then a pair in the new link cable takes it into the FTTC. If it is a SMPF service a second pair in the link cable will return to the PCP and thence to the exchange.
I am only aware of Rutland's FTTC service where they provide both phone and broadband with a FMPF so they save on pairs in the link cable which can be up to 100 pair at a mere cost of £765.32 ex VAT installation and £42.14 p.a. rental.

Many of BT's PCPs are already quite full so they often "re-sleeve" a PCP to provide sufficient space for the link cable terminations.
The PCP may then look new, but it still contains all the old cables.
You can usually tell a FTTC as it has ventilation slots and you may see another trench for the electricity cable.
The PCP is still a "passive" device so doesn't contain electrical power - do I hear RazPag saying "thank goodness" ?

The picture in the link shows a re-sleeved PCP to the right and a non-BT FTTC to the left. Its ventilation slots are on the far end.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/49270005

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: razpag on February 21, 2011, 07:58:51 PM
You'll not get any arguement from me there, Walter.

Speaking as a residential EU though, I'm not even slightly interested in having 'Voice over IP', therefore FTTC for DSL provision is near enough the mark to satisfy me.

By "Re-sleeving" I assume you mean 'Re-shelling' ?? which does indeed happen when the original cables within the PCP have reached saturation, and we need to upgrade by fitting more cables. Usually this will mean fitting a new shell (generally sheet-metal or Fibreglass) as there isn't enough space to terminate the new cables in the older cast-iron shells. The same 're-shelling' scenario's also happen when the PCP has been smashed up via a car-crash etc., or as once happened in my home town only last year, by being dessimated by some nutter with a sledge-hammer.

PS .... the power side of the new DSLAM Cabinets (do you see what I did there Walter  ;D), are to be maintained by our own Power-Maintenance engineers I'm led to believe. This was the group I was on when I first started at BT all those years ago, and it's gonna be a shock for them having to work outside in our inclement weather. Not really interesting, just a dig at some of my former work-mates.  :lol:
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: CurlyWhirly on February 21, 2011, 10:01:25 PM
On the subject of FTTC, does anyone know if it's more likely for BT (Wholesale) to enable an exchange that has already been unbundled as opposed to a Market 1 exchange i.e. where the incumbent operator (BT Wholesale) is the only provider of broadband services ?

My exchange has been unbundled by a few ISP's and serves aprox 14,313 residential premises and 502 non-residential premises.

I'm really hoping that my exchange will get upgraded to FTTC or 4 Mbps is all I am ever going to be able to get unless I move house  :(
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on February 22, 2011, 12:05:33 AM
Hi Mike,

Have you been here - even though, to my knowledge, there's no list of the actual PCPs to be enabled.

http://www.openreach.co.uk/exchange_plan

EDIT This link should provide a download of the PDF document after you enable the download.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on February 22, 2011, 08:29:54 AM
Quote
http://www.openreach.co.uk/exchange_plan (http://www.openreach.co.uk/exchange_plan)

It's just an empty page? :
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><title></title></head><body></body></html>

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: tuftedduck on February 22, 2011, 10:23:41 AM
@ geep.......ok for me, gives the option to open/download the PDF
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: BritBrat on February 22, 2011, 10:51:22 AM
Worked for me.

Try right click and save target As:
openreach.co.uk (http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super-fastfibreaccess/downloads/fttc_pot_exchs.pdf)
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: geep on February 22, 2011, 04:40:21 PM
Ta everybody. Found it now - and deleted the 10 copies in my Download Folder. On Linux/Firefox it downloaded silently.
Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: CurlyWhirly on February 22, 2011, 08:34:23 PM
Hi Mike,

Have you been here - even though, to my knowledge, there's no list of the actual PCPs to be enabled.

http://www.openreach.co.uk/exchange_plan

EDIT This link should provide a download of the PDF document after you enable the download.

Kind regards,
Walter
Thanks for the link although my exchange (http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SWQJA) isn't mentioned so does this mean that I am unlikely to ever get FTTC ?
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: roseway on February 22, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
I think it means that it's not currently in the plan (my exchange isn't there either) so we might be lucky and get it one day, but I'll probably turn my toes up before it happens. :(
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: CurlyWhirly on February 22, 2011, 11:27:05 PM
I think it means that it's not currently in the plan (my exchange isn't there either) so we might be lucky and get it one day, but I'll probably turn my toes up before it happens. :(
If that's true then it's surprising in my case as my exchange isn't small so it should be feasible  :-\

I would have expected small exchanges to be excluded due to lack of ROI
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: UncleUB on February 23, 2011, 08:51:33 AM
I think it means that it's not currently in the plan (my exchange isn't there either) so we might be lucky and get it one day, but I'll probably turn my toes up before it happens. :(


Mine isn't on the list either(Attercliffe) :'(

Quite a few exchanges in Sheffield will be up and running next month and they have been laying cables along side the dual carriageway at the entrance to our estate,so we will keep our fingers crossed.
Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on February 23, 2011, 03:17:04 PM

Hi


My... Exchange & Cab Went Live On 31st December 2010  :D 8)    But... Can't Afford FTTC Just Yet  :no: :'(

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: waltergmw on February 23, 2011, 04:33:24 PM
@ All,

It's important to realise that an enabled exchange DOES NOT guarantee that your PCP will be provided with FTTC.

Furthermore I suggest taking the enablement date with a pinch of salt or two as they may well change with a reissue of the PDF.
E.g. Haslemere Dec 2010, then Mar 2011 and now Sept 2011

I've just searched for a pub in Godalming and got the attached result on the Zen Fibre site, but the latest BT Openreach list states it's ready for taking orders now.
Perhaps this indicates a degree of disorganisation between BT O's public announcements and the database accessed by Communications Providers ?

Kind reagrds,
Walter

Title: Re: ADSL24 / BT Wholesale FTTC Map
Post by: Zoe on February 24, 2011, 02:26:43 PM
Hi  :)


I'm pretty certain that both my Exchange and Cab are live with FTTC.
Even had an Infinity letter from BT  ::)

FTTC Cab looked finished ( Ready & Waiting ) well before Christmas.
But the exchange only went live on 31st December 2010.

Just Can't Afford FTTC  :no:


See Pics Below!