Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: grumpy old man on July 01, 2010, 09:39:12 PM

Title: Router advice
Post by: grumpy old man on July 01, 2010, 09:39:12 PM
My secretary of some 20 years has retired and can no longer read her e-mails, no home pc.  As a retirement gift I am going to treat her to a laptop and broadband connection so that she can get back on line.

She won't be spending alot of time on the internet, probably only getting e-mails. Won't buy anything over the net doesn't trust it!  I am looking for advice on a router, nothing fancy, doesn't need to be all bells and whistles, any suggestions.  My own is a netgear DG834G which seems fine, although a little old now. 

If anyone has suggestions on laptops,  I would welcome those as well

Thanks

gom
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: Weaver on July 01, 2010, 11:28:40 PM
The DG834 _v3_ is still a classic. The v4 devices are those currently selling, but the older v3 units can still be had on eBay.

Thomson Speedtouch is another outstanding device. Zyxel devices worth a look too.

The router isn't everythin though, by no means. A top-notch 'faceplate'-type microfilter such as that from ADSL Nation (for around £14 from) is very important for success. An alternative is the BT Pressac type faceplate microfilter from http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_bits.htm for example. I've had very good results with both, which is better perhaps depends on your line and on the number and type of phones plugged into it.

Minimise extension wiring, keep cables short. Use twisted pair phoneline cable to the router (clarity.it [above] carry it).
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: geep on July 02, 2010, 12:20:16 AM
Possibly the DG834v3 isn't happiest on ADSL2+. The v4 has a Broadcom chipset which reportedly is, as Thomson.
Cheers, Peter
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: Weaver on July 02, 2010, 07:20:01 AM
> Possibly the DG834v3 isn't happiest on ADSL2+.

As Geep says - I'd certainly think that's sound advice.

I would and do prefer to use the Broadcom-based v4s on all short lines, even if they are only ADSL1 not ADSL2/ADSL2+.

The DG834v3 uses the TI AR7 chipset and every exchange round here is TI, so there's synergy here which might not hold for you.

It is possible to look up the DSLAM hardware type.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: roseway on July 02, 2010, 07:34:54 AM
If you buy a DG834G now you'll almost certainly get a v5, which uses a Conexant chipset and isn't a particularly spectacular performer. If you can get a DG834Gv4 that would be the one I would choose, otherwise DGN2000 would be a solid choice.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: HPsauce on July 02, 2010, 09:16:50 AM
If anyone has suggestions on laptops
Yes, seriously, don't. Get a desktop.

I presume "retiring" means 60-ish, and she's probably used a desktop at work anyway and is a proficient typist.

I see so many "silver surfers" who have been bought laptops by well-meaning family and almost invariably it's an ergonomic disaster on so many fronts. Unless she has a VERY good reason for wanting the portability of a laptop, just don't get one.

PS If you do get her a desktop then the bog-standard router supplied by the broadband provider will be fine, and she won't need wireless.  ;) What ISP are you looking at?
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: waltergmw on July 02, 2010, 11:03:23 AM
That's very sound advice from HPs. If it's imperative that a laptop is provided I suggest one with a bluetooth capability so that at least a cordless mouse (if not full keyboard as well) can be added.

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: Weaver on July 05, 2010, 11:01:01 PM
> Yes, seriously, don't. Get a desktop.

Absolutely agree. I spend a lot of time trying to dissaude my own customers from buying laptops when a desktop is what they need.

As said earlier, laptop keyboards are bad for your hands, their small displays make you less productive, they are mechanically terrifyingly fragile (although this issue can be improved by buying motion-sensor or accelerometer-equipped models or fixed completely by using non-mechanical solid state drives), they are horrifically slow compared to desktop machines that are half of the price... the list goes on.

Laptops are a current fad that people may well grow out of, when they realise that speed, big displays and nice keyboards are worth paying extra, oh no, wait rather less money for.

Having said all that, if you need a machine to be mobile, then that's what you need and you just have to live with the limitations, even if you spend a fortune on a laptop. But even in that case, having _only_ a laptop is dangerous as you have all your eggs in a very fragile basket.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: grumpy old man on July 14, 2010, 09:36:10 PM
Sorry haven't been on the site for a while.

Thank you for all your replies, alot of food for thought including the suggestion to not get a laptop.  I am not sure that this is that important as I don't think it will be used that much, and it is more clutter!

gom
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: BritBrat on July 15, 2010, 01:14:53 PM
I always advise against laptops unless you need portabilty.

But they never listen.

And desktops are easy to repair and upgrade.

You can get small desktops now and with flat screens take up not much more room than a laptop.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: HPsauce on July 15, 2010, 01:36:20 PM
Small desktops do however tend to use laptop components, the smaller they are the more this is the case.

Saw a nice neat new Dell system recently which was a very powerful business workstation; the disks (it was raid-ed and encrypted) were laptop types and the DVD drive from a laptop but the RAM was desktop variety.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: kitz on July 15, 2010, 05:46:56 PM
>> I am looking for advice on a router, nothing fancy, doesn't need to be all bells and whistles, any suggestions. 

Which ISP is she going to go with..  you may well get a half decent one free when you sign up. 

Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: HPsauce on July 15, 2010, 06:45:06 PM
Indeed, no response yet to the earlier question on that topic.....
If you do get her a desktop then the bog-standard router supplied by the broadband provider will be fine, and she won't need wireless.  ;) What ISP are you looking at?
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: grumpy old man on July 15, 2010, 09:03:48 PM
Hmmm 

I am sorry HP when I read through the replies missed your query re ISP.  It will probably be plusnet.

Desktop v's laptop.  I take the points made regarding screen size, keyboard etc.  I have opted for laptop not so much for portability but more for size, a desktop does take a bit of room and not sure she would like to have one sitting in corner of room.  The point about typing is a valid one although I don't think alot will be done.  Could always get a keyboard to go with laptop.  Having said that I will take a look at desktops as well. 

I have a laptop and doesn't seem fragile to me, have dropped a couple of times and still working fine.  I agree that they are less easily repaired if components fail.

gom
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: waltergmw on July 15, 2010, 11:13:35 PM
Hi GOM,

At the risk of ridicule over cost and that it's not a Windows machine, you might just like to glance at this solution:-

http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MB950B/A?mco=MTM3NDc3MDM

Kind regards,
Walter
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: Weaver on July 16, 2010, 12:00:47 AM
> I have a laptop and doesn't seem fragile to me, have dropped a couple of times and still working fine.  I agree that they are less easily repaired if components fail.

I should have explained myself better. I meant that the spinning, mechanical hard disk is the weak link. Moving a laptop while the hard disk is spinning, intentionally or unintentionally, if you do it enough times, means that you will one day lose everything. If you use a laptop only on a stable surface and don't shove it around or pick it up while it's running then it's probably reason to say that you probably don't need to be _too_ concerned.

There are solutions to this (aside from the obvious 'buy a desktop instead').

A laptop with a motion/sensor (or accelerometer) in it can detect motion and shut down the hard disk quickly. This is why I only Lenovo Thinkpads for my customers. I think Apple offer this too? In my experience this works well provided you don't do anything to foolish.

The ultimate is to get a non-mechanical 'hard disk', all solid state. But these have their disadvantages, horrendous cost principally.

One tip about space saving for desktop PCs is to mount them on a wall shelf near or above your desk, or hang them on a bracket hanging off the underside of the desktop underneath.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: grumpy old man on July 19, 2010, 09:46:23 PM
Walter

It has to be a windows, would prefer XP as she is used to this, but 7 should be close enough, anything else would not be good idea.

Weaver

I note your point about hard disc, will look at the availability of motion sensors.

gom.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: kitz on July 19, 2010, 10:33:41 PM
Heh - I seem to be going against the train of thought of others here.   I trying to persaude my dad to get a laptop to replace his now aging PC that I built several years ago.

Reasons
 ~ Mum moans at how long he spends in the spare bedroom, and kind of feels left out.
 ~ With a laptop he can take it from room to room, he can even use it in the lounge whilst shes watching TV.
 ~ It will free up a fair bit of space in the spare room, which will make mum much happier.
 ~ Finally - It will be much easier for me..  if theres something he wants doing or fixing, then I can collect it, and bring it back here to work on.  Rather than doing it there and it taking me 6 times longer to do anything because I have to explain every step of what Im doing (95% of it will never go in anyhow bless him :) )  ;D

Ive taken my lappy round there hes had no problems with the keyboard.. but obviously a separate mouse will be essential.


Quote
It will probably be plusnet.

The plusnet supplied router will probably be fine..  its only if shes geeky or has problems with her line, then a separate router may be called for.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: HPsauce on July 19, 2010, 10:45:25 PM
I can collect it
Do you go there by bus?
(even if you did a modern small desktop CPU would happily fit in a strong reusable supermarket bag)
I bet you've got all the peripherals - monitor etc. at home - for a desktop.  ;)
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: HPsauce on July 19, 2010, 10:54:43 PM
One tip about space saving for desktop PCs is to mount them on a wall shelf near or above your desk, or hang them on a bracket hanging off the underside of the desktop underneath.
Definitely. My desk has 2 levels, with a fairly deep upper shelf just 6" above the main desk surface. I think it was originally some sort of CAD/draughtsman workstation. Works very well.
My CPU,  scanner and desk light (and a lot of rubbish) sit on the upper level - very handy.
Flat monitor, keyboard and mouse on lower level plus working papers.
Printer is a couple of feet away on a storage unit next to the filing cabinet - just a push of the feet and a short roll of my office chair.

I've also got a "computer desk" in the office (next to my main desk) which has 2 CPU's and a laser printer on the lower shelves, multifunction flat-screen monitor (mainly used as a Freeview TV TBH) keyboard, mouse etc on the desktop and CD storage etc alongside and above. Too much "stuff"!
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: Weaver on July 20, 2010, 12:18:15 AM
Another habit that I've started to get into, put two wall-shelves up, one about four inches below the other. With a PC on the top shelf, the lower shelf is a place to put mains, switches routers, anti-surge units all kinds of gubbins.
Title: Re: Router advice
Post by: kitz on July 20, 2010, 11:21:22 AM
>> I bet you've got all the peripherals - monitor etc. at home - for a desktop.

I used to have - in fact I use to have a spare monitor with KVM set up so I could easily hotswap PC's over with a box that I used as a  play machine for RH.

But over the years, my own hardware has declined.  I dont build these days, theres not much saving to be made so no-one really wants a self build machine done anymore.  I used to have about 5-6 machines.  Ive now only got the one :/

Right now I dont even have my PC room, although Im hoping that will be rectified pretty soon and I can move everything back in.   But the design will be for me and more of a work environment rather than one where Im surrounded by PCs.
My own circumstances have changed a lot, therefore I need to make things easier for me. Not lugging desktops around is one of them.

I couldnt work from a lappy - I cant because of what I do,Personally Im a desktop person, and need my workspace.
(Its one of the reasons I cant really do anything much on the site right now). 

But a desktop is overkill for the amount of time my parents use theirs.  Ive even took my lappy round there and let dad use it,  he's just as happy with it as long as he has the mouse.   In fact more so he can take and use it in the lounge, or in the back room.. or back in the spare room.  He'd use a lappy far more than he would the desktop.