Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: 22point8 on June 18, 2010, 12:27:39 AM
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The pictures show how the LJU2 seems to be extended from a hidden junction box in the wall. BT wire from underground enters house near front door, then through a hole in the wall covered with a blanking plate, and the wire extends under the front doorr across the skirting board the lju. Why would the BT man who fitted this in 1985 have split the white cable and then rejoined it? What is the white cable because I don't see any twists in it, could it be CAT3? Did cw1308 exist in 1985?
I'm asking because I have an openreach engineer from down the road around on monday to fit an nte5 for me and I'm wondering what they'd have to do and how long it'd take. As you can see the wire is 25 years old, looks quite worn and doesn't look up to date. What are the blue things?
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I think the blue things are just plastic covers over some crimped joints. Was the house a new build when the telephone wiring was installed? If so, then the new house would probably have been fitted with a blanked-off telephone supply cable as standard; then the new owners would have ordered a telephone service, and the installation engineer would have fitted the LJU2 where it is and connected it to the incoming cable where the blanking plate is.
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I think Roseway is pretty much correct.
I`d say the reason for siting the LJU2 where it is, is because otherwise it`d be behind the door (not ideal if you were on the phone & someone came in?) or the previous owners had the outlet moved?.
I notice the Box is a plasterboard box, so is the house Timber-framed (doesn`t make much difference).
One thing that surprises me is, it looks like the incoming cable is ordinary internal cable & I would have thought they`d have used external cable, unless there is another joint behind the plasterboard?
Hopefully one of the BT/OR engineers will be able to tell you what has happened?
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Hi 22.8,
You can see the modern equivalent of wire cripms here
http://www.nextag.co.uk/jelly-crimps/shop-html
They are called jelly crimps as they are filled with petroleum jelly to repel water ingress.
As I'm inquisitive, I would spin the box retaining levers and cut round the plaster or paint with a Stanley knife before removing the box to see what was behind it.
A torch and mirror might be needed.
Kind regards,
Walter
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And to answer the other point, that looks like "proper" phone cable.
The photo isn't that good so I can't see if it's 4-core or 6-core but the way they're sheathed means the twists aren't normally visible externally anyway (unlike some LAN cables).
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Also that although BT have used white sheathed cable from an overhead line and BT 16 junction box in the past, they now often use black External Drop Wire 10 CW1411 directly into the NTE5 internally if it's close to the external walls.
Kind regards,
Walter
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The house was new in 1985 and we've been the only residents. So is the cable still ok (it is 6 wires by the way) and the engineer can just reuse the 2 and 5 and attach them to the AB on the back of the NTE5? Also I know the engineers carry NTE2000 face plates, but do they also have the 2005 faceplate with the 2345AB idc connectors? Or are those just made by the same manufacturer for resellers?
For an adsl extension from the AB should I use Cat5e or the BT extension kit which is Cat5e but only 2 pair, or CW1308? Also I think I'll buy a decent twisted pair RJ11 cable (Unless I can find a twisted pair cable with RJ45 on one end and RJ11 on the other). Basically I want to maximise the broadband speed by optimising my side of the wiring.
I'm not at home right now so I can't sent you the stats but my attenuation is 54 and I get a sync of around 5400, I'm 2km away from the THAMESMEAD exchange as the crow flies and about 3km road distance. I think the attenuation could really be more like 40. The ring wire is one of the six coming from the wall to the lju so that doesn't help. Theres a fibre cabinet 200m away but I'm not willing to pay BT £25 a month and have the 30 odd mbits crippled by fair usage and traffic shaping. I'm with O2 LLU at £7.50 a month ;D .
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It is not good practice to loop any lines from the AB terminals, and you're not allowed to do so yourself.
If at all possible I would keep the modem as close as possible to the NTE5 and run Ethernet cables (or use home plugs to do the same over your house wiring) to your PCs or to another router.
Why do you want to have a RJ11 to RJ45 link cable ?
Note you can put a RJ11 cable into a RJ45 socket, but obviously NOT vice versa!
Kind regards,
Walter
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I meant from the AB on a filtered faceplate, sorry for the confusion. I know an rj11 will fit in a rj45 but its kind of an awkward fit so i'm worried about the pins aligning correctly. I want the modem upstairs because thats where the devices that'll be using the modem are, and to take advantage of a wired connection to the ps3. I know I could plug the modem in downstairs and use ethernet cables but it'd be a mess.
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Hi again 22.8,
I suspect most internal wiring will refer to pins 2 & 5 rather than A & B but that's only a minor nomenclature matter.
I agree that you have to insert a RJ11 carefully but I've not had any reliability issues with that method.
Given that many people are striving for the maximum sync speed on possibly substandard lines, I prefer not to give any excuse to BT O or an ISP for an even poorer performance.
Hence I would choose homeplugs but it's you who will be paying the piper to call the tunes you wish !
Kind regards,
Walter
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I suspect most internal wiring will refer to pins 2 & 5 rather than A & B but that's only a minor nomenclature matter.
Not exactly. Many filtered faceplates provide both filtered (2 & 5) and unfiltered (A & B) connectors. The purpose of the A & B connectors is to permit the user to extend the unfiltered circuit so as to connect a router at some distant point. If high quality twisted-pair cable is used for this it's as good as situating the router near the master socket. As it happens, that's exactly the arrangement which I use.
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So will the engineer crimp a new cable to the first part of white cable and then connect the new cable to the NTE5? I think It'd be pretty hard to completely replace the white cable because if you look carefully at the pictures its kind of cemented in and I don't know how to get behind that back box. But anyway, if its just crimp a replacement white wire to the white wire coming in thats probably fine.
Just to ask again, do openreach engineers carry the NTE2005 faceplate as sold online, or is it just the NTE2000 that has no provision for an unfiltered extension?
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Sorry I confused myself as I was talking about a standard slave socket. Eric is absolutely correct re a master socket with A & B designed for phone extensions.
If you look at your plasterboard box you'll see it has two flaps which can be rotated to bring the fixing lugs inside the box. If you then use a sharp knife to cut the filler or paint away the box can be pulled out. The filler or paint can be removed from the cable as well usually by just flexing the cable. The picture in this link is similar but is just hinged rather than having to turn it.
http://www.gil-lec.co.uk/products/Wiring+Accessories/Boxes/Flush+Socket+Boxes/Plasterboard+Boxes/Plasterboard+Box+1+Gang+35mm/2004437815
You can't say what the engineer will carry or how he will go about a job. He might well remove the box to see if there are further joints in the plasterboard void. Even if he fits a standard NTE5, you can buy an ADSL Nation replacement filtered faceplate and fit it quite legally.
http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=90
You can also buy a RJ11 faceplate socket e.g. from here:-
http://www.tel-ext.co.uk/shop/index.php/adsl-equipment/rj11-single-flush-mount-socket/p_265.html
Kind regards,
Walter
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Ah, I wondered what those flaps were inside the back box, didn't realise you had to twist them, thanks Walter. I might have another look at the 85mm grey plastic box outside the house, its square, and the underground wire goes into it mostly covered by conduit, but about a 1cm is exposed and those wires (4, I'm guessing current and a spare phone line) are really thin, surprised that snow and stuff hasn't ruined them. When I unscrewed the rusty screw on the grey box the other day it was full of spider web, I suppose because it hasn't been touched for 25 years! Didn't get a good look though, that would show whats on the other side of the back box.
Is the ADSLNATION XTE2005 better than the Pressac NTE2005?
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Is the ADSLNATION XTE2005 better than the Pressac NTE2005?
ADSLNation would say 'yes', because their faceplate uses an active filter, whereas other filtered faceplates only have passive filters. Personally I doubt there's much in it, and either type might be better in particular circumstances.
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Hi 22.8 again,
If the external (BT 66 ?) box is accessible it would be neater if a new cable was fitted from there directly into your master socket.
You could fit a standard blanking plate over the then redundant box.
@ Eric, just to avoid possible confusion, I had included the ADSL Nation link to their xDSL v10 faceplate rather than the XTE2005, but
the description doesn't seem to mention whether this unit has their active filter design.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Walter, you're quite right. I hadn't realised that ADSL Nation are now selling the modified BT filtered faceplate as well as their own XTE2005. The latter used to have an active filter, but there seems to be no mention of it now, so maybe they've changed the design. In any case, I'm sure that both are excellent products, and your recommendation is a good one.
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More pics.
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Hi 22.8,
There would appear to be a good case for having the entire cabling replaced !
However the grime isn't necessarily a sign of a faulty cable.
It appears that the two lines were connected to the internal cable's blue pair and orange pair.
It's difficult to see the condition of the joints from the underground cable, but I would not suggest disturbing them yourself as there's very little slack on the blue pair to remake the connections.
It's possible that even this arrangement was not the first connection of the line as there's no sign of the underground cable sheath.
We will await with interest the BT engineer's visit.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi everyone, the engineer put the NTE5 where the blanking plate was using the white cable. She removed the blue crimp things, she called them 'beans' and said they were discontinued years ago because they were known to cause faults! She also said the 6 wire white cable wasn't used any more because only 4 are needed and its good as it is. Anyway she stripped back the white cable and connected up the NTE5, then used the other part of the wire which is now attached to the faceplate as an extension to the LJU2/1a. She said if there were any problems with phone or broadband because of having 2 capacitors on the line I could either cut them out of the LJU2/1A, or she gave me 2 LJU2/3As which I could replace it with. Not bad for £30 cash.
For now there is no change in router stats but its only been half an hour so far. I'm also using 20 odd metres of crappy flat, plug in extension wire (4, aluminium, straight) to the lju2/1a until I get a Krone tool, NTE2005 faceplate, Cat5e and a twisted pair RJ11 cable.,
My plan is attach NTE2005, filtered phone to LJU2/3a Using CW1308, and unfiltered ADSL using BT extension kit from Clarity (Cat5e but 3 pair).
Is having 2 capacitors going to be bad? How much speed/ snrm do you think can I gain and how much attenuation can I drop by rewiring as above? Here are my stats:
Modemstate : Up
xDSL Type : ADSL2+
xDSL Standard : ITU-T G.992.5
xDSL Annex : Annex A
Uptime (days hh:mm:ss) : 0 days, 0:43:33
Number of resets : 1
Total Available Bandwidth Cells/s kbit/s
Downstream : 13266 5625
Upstream : 2716 1152
Bearer Generic Info Downstream Upstream
INP (DMT) : 2.04 0.00
Delay (ms) : 7.92 0.24
R : 12 0
Margin (dB) : 6.5 6.0
Attenuation (dB) : 53.0 30.0
OutputPower (dBm) : 19.0 12.0
Vendor Chipset Local Remote
Country : B500 B500
Vendor : BDCM BDCM
VendorSpecific : 0000 918F
StandardRevisionNr : 00 63
Vendor System
Country : 0F00 0000
Vendor : TMMB ----
VendorSpecific : 3C61 0000
StandardRevisionNr : 00 00
Transfer statistics
Errors
Received FEC : 3867
Received CRC : 10
Received HEC : 9
Transmitted FEC : 12
Transmitted CRC : 12
Tranmsitted HEC : 46563
Near end failures since reset
Loss of frame : 0 failures
Loss of signal : 0 failures
Loss of power : 0 failures
Errored seconds : 0 seconds
Near end failures last 15 minutes
Loss of frame : 0 seconds
Loss of signal : 0 seconds
Loss of power : 0 seconds
Errored seconds : 0 seconds
Near end failures current day
Errored seconds : 0 seconds
Near end failures previous day
Errored seconds : 0 seconds
iPlayer - Down 4824,4768,4718,4813kbps (4766)
Speed.io - Down 4773 Up 949 Connections per minute 2851/3000 Ping 21ms
Speedtest.net (London) - Down 4.89mbps Up 0.96mbps Ping 33ms
Thinkbroadband - Down 4740.04 Kbps Up 964.56 Kbps
Broadband Speed Checker - Down 4832 Up 841
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Just an update, I haven't done any wiring yet, but it seems just removing those bean things and waiting a while has got me a consistently faster sync in the 5700 range.
I've been looking at BT infinity and they use an i-plate like thing like this http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/btvdslfaceplate.html and the VDSL modem plugs into it, and then you attach a PPPoE capable router to that. Now, I'm not interested until they raise their FUP to something more realistic, but thinking ahead to the future I'm going to use Cat5e (or Cat6 if the diameter isn't much bigger, can anyone confirm 5e is 5mm and 6 is 6mm?) from a filter face plate, shall I plug in or hard wire at the master, and also, what socket should I have on the other end where my D-Link is.
I'm thinking NTE5a (which I have) + NTE2005 + NTE2000 DSL Data extension kit. Does the extension kit have a RJ45 or a RJ11 socket? I'm talking about this one http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/phone/data_extension1.jpg http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/phone/data_extension2.jpg
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Hi 22.8,
I believe all BT data sockets will be RJ11s.
I don't think you'll get any benefit from Cat 6 which is designed for Gigabit Ethernet.
(We might all like up to 40 Mbps or even 200 Mbps but going any faster just isn't going to happen !)
RE cable diameters you'll see below the specs from one of the better suppliers.
Kind regards,
Walter
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