Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: billy171 on December 11, 2009, 10:12:27 PM
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Hi guys
Up until 4 weeks ago I enjoyed 2 megs bb from Tiscali, it was great, on it for about 2 years, then suddenly it went right down the pan.
Contacted support and spent 2 weeks talking to our Indian friends and getting nowhere. It was only after a heated discussion with a team leader that he admitted
that no-one had investigated my problem as they could not get slots with Openreach Engineers, as BT were pulled out.
At point I requested my number and jumped ship. Deciding it was best to go with the infrastructure specialists I went to BT and ordered Total Broadband 3 and talk.
That went in on the 27th November and ever since it's crawled. I had a line engineer over to check the line and he said it pegged out at 2500megs, which is what the IP profile is saying. He fitted a master broadband socket and said he could do no more, I would have to let it settle.
Well I've waited and nothing seems to change, it gets no faster. Apparently something, I know not what, was done at the exchange 3 days ago, but nothing has made a difference. Also I've reset my hub 3 or 4 times since then, and now wonder whether I've reset the 10 day period for line training....or whether the line has locked up I don't
know. Below are my line stats, I've checked Nildram site and apparently my exchange is a dsl max exchange and when I checked, was not choked with traffic. I was getting about 150-200 kbps at best.
I have good cables, not cheapies, both computers are cookie, adware, virus and free of bloatware and normally slick.
My xp machine has the mtu tuned for Tiscali although it may not suit my con now, but cant get a good enough con to even consider tuning.
I read up a little on adaptive adsl on the main site ( excellent site btw) and learned the difference between fixed and the latter, but don't really know what to expect now.
ADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 1:07:27
Downstream 3,104 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps
ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 6.3 dB / 18.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 57.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 16.9 dBm / 11.9 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 2574 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 78 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 42
Any help greatfully received, sorry its an essay :-[
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Hi and welcome
Ok The good news is that there appears to be nothing wrong with your line .
with your attenuation Line attenuation (Down/Up) 57.0 dB your downstream connection is spot on
see link below
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php
your noise margin is normal at 6db
Your profile at this synch rate will be 2500Kbps .
can you run speedtest on btspeed tester to confirm that .
http://www.speedtester.bt.com/
I think your problems are simply congestion. you can verify this by doing speetests at different times of the day .
http://www.speedtest.net/
Do not keep trying to get a better connection as this migth result in your line being seen as unstable .this could result in increased target SNR and a lower connection speed.
Regards Jeff
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Hi Jeff
Many thanks for the reply, I did check exchange data on the Nildram site and my exchange got a green light?
But after the last router reset, I seemed to have picked up a boatload of upstream errors..
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 1998 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 6 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 4
Also is the interleaving a normal situation, and also a desirable one?....or an automated error fixing system.
I did try to use my netgear router to connect but for some reason the primary and secondary DNS ip addresses would not save to prom..
so plugged the hub back in doh! :-X
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Here is a speed tester you can leave running:
JDSpeedTester ver 10.8 (http://forum.adslhelper.co.uk/topic/41-jds-auto-speedtester-download/page__s__49a9e3a54c94ae5b4d3e378fade52d2b)
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CRC Errors (Down/Up) 6 / 2147480000
Don't worry about that large upstream figure, it's just a reporting error by that particular router.
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Thanks guys for the replies, and Britbrat for the tester link.
Lo and behold, last night or should I say this morning at about 12:40, I did a final test before going to bed, and my connection flew, it may have coincided with the 3 day period for line training maybe and the con had settled down. I did a BT test and got 1850kbps! for the first time in about 4 weeks. ;D
Went to bed a happier bear, and got up this morning to find my wife on the laptop, who reported a flying connection of around 2megs!...that was at 07:30am this morning. She stayed on till 0900, and I got to the laptop at 09:15, did a test and got 170k on the BT tester!! ???
It's almost as though someone threw a switch. :-\
And there's nothing at home that would implicate the connection, central heating pump or the like, only the sun coming up ::)
I live 4.1 kilometres from SLXDS
This mornings hub data: follows
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 9:05:23
Downstream 3,424 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps
ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 6.6 dB / 19.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 57.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 17.6 dBm / 11.9 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 44450 / 15
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 106 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 11
Error Seconds (Local) 55
Don't think I 'll be fine tuning mtu today >:(
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Hi Billy,
Just to be sure, you don't by any chance have an open wireless link ?
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi Billy,
Appologies for butting in as I'm not trying to distract from Walter's suggestion, but also worth thinking about...
A good connection with lousy data rates in normal hours, but much better data rates off-peak (say, midnight to 9am), can suggest the ISP may be throttling you for contravening their FUP (fair use policy). That hardly seems likely if you've only been with them a few weeks, and in any case I'm also not sure whether an ISP's FUP throttle would show up on the BT speed tester. Still, it may be worth checking the small print on the T&C to see if anything could explain it - especially if you're a heavy downloader (are you?).
Regardless of above, next time you get a BT speed test - good or bad - can you let us know what the BT tester reports for your IP Profile, as well the download speeds for the tests.
- 7LM
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Hi Walter
No its closed alright, and my NIS firewall/ av software also reports it so...with high encryption.
And I dont subscribe to BT Fon either...doh ::)
I'd like some bandwidth for myself, without giving it away! ::)
Regards
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Hi Billy,
Appologies for butting in as I'm not trying to distract from Walter's suggestion, but also worth thinking about...
A good connection with lousy data rates in normal hours, but much better data rates off-peak (say, midnight to 9am), can suggest the ISP may be throttling you for contravening their FUP (fair use policy). That hardly seems likely if you've only been with them a few weeks, and in any case I'm also not sure whether an ISP's FUP throttle would show up on the BT speed tester. Still, it may be worth checking the small print on the T&C to see if anything could explain it - especially if you're a heavy downloader (are you?).
Regardless of above, next time you get a BT speed test - good or bad - can you let us know what the BT tester reports for your IP Profile, as well the download speeds for the tests.
- 7LM
Thanks for the suggestion but , no I'm on BT Total Broadband 3 with anytime talk, so no restrictions applied, well not supposed to be...
Mostly the reason why I'm so angry at this situ as its not exactly a budget connection, and i've not had a service yet!
Regards
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Hi
Your slow throughput has NOTHING to do with TRAINING period .
Your synch stats are GOOD for the attenuation on your line.
Your last synch rate Downstream 3,424 Kbps will get you a profile of 3000Kbps . ;D
The synch rate is the lower end of the BAND for this profile
If you want your profile to IMPROVE Do not switch off router as your next synch may be lower .
Have you done the BT speedtest to confirm your PROFILE ?
What sort of speeds did you get during Morning ,Evening etc . Large differences with very low speeds during busy periods are most probably due to ISP contention.
what was the Maximum you got ?
Regards Jeff :)
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Hi Jeff
Thanks for the reply,
I have been informed today that my connection is under investigation by systems engineers, and as you say everything is ok so far as my line is concerned.
This also has been ratified. It appears there could be issues at the exchange, but clearly a pre-requisite for further deeper investigation warrants further time related testing, which has been initiated and is ongoing, so it's watch this space for now. Will know better in a day or two.
regards
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Sounds like either exchange congestion or ISP throttling if you have ruled out the suggestions by others. You should also check out your IPprofile from the BTw tester to rule this out too.
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IP profile pans out at 2500, in line with everything else.. :)
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Have you noticed any major fluctuations in your ping times?
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Hi
My last posted :Your last synch rate Downstream 3,424 Kbps will get you a profile of 3000Kbps .
your quote today : IP profile pans out at 2500, in line with everything else.
Have you rebooted or had a resynch since your last posted set of stats ? if not then you should see your profile go up to 3000Kbps .
That of course will only improve your throughput during "Good" periods ,that is if you have any .
Regards Jeff :)
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It'll ping at anything between 41 and 60 ms
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That ping's ok
consistantly over 80ms is a bit tetchy, >130ms could be a problem although on a typical test the odd line at this speed is typical and isn't a problem
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Hi
My last posted :Your last synch rate Downstream 3,424 Kbps will get you a profile of 3000Kbps .
your quote today : IP profile pans out at 2500, in line with everything else.
Have you rebooted or had a resynch since your last posted set of stats ? if not then you should see your profile go up to 3000Kbps .
That of course will only improve your throughput during "Good" periods ,that is if you have any .
Regards Jeff :)
Sorry Jeff missed your post, yea I reset hub couple of days back, as apparently I'm told my line is "retraining".....hmmm
stats as follows:
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 2 days, 23:09:55
Downstream 3,584 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps
ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 6.3 dB / 18.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 56.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 18.2 dBm / 11.9 dBm
BT tester is seeing IP 2500 for these stats, but dont know whether they've fixed my SNR? ::)
I get good speed sometimes, but then it chokes down to 200k or less very quickly, as if someone pulls a switch???? :o
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Have you noticed any correlation between the time of day and the throughput speeds that you are achieving?
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Hi
Quote : BT tester is seeing IP 2500 for these stats, but dont know whether they've fixed my SNR?
your SNR margin : Noise margin (Down/Up) 6.3 dB / 18.0 dB .
That seems absolutely normal .What do you think needs fixing ?
Your profile should go to 3000Kbps shortly (give it a couple of days ) . IF you do not resynch at a lower rate .
As for the throughput that is another matter .
Regards Jeff
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Hi Jeff
When I say fixed my SNR. I mean fix as in they've locked it, as I believe they can?
But tonight SNR had dropped to 4.1, and yes IP profile has increased to 3000; so perhaps they didn't lock it.
But tonight during peak time download/ throughput (really) was well down to below 200kbps.
In fact at one point fell to 13kbps, at which time I used the BT tester, because I'm told they can trace the tests from the BT tester.(by support)
During the day I was getting well over 2000kbps.
And also made a point of reminding them that 13kbps fell way below the levels to meet terms and conditions.(600kbps min) >:D
Allegedly this latest "training period" ends on the 18thDec.
I've towed the line and just them get on and fix it up till now, after the 18th if it aint fixed, they'll know more about me!
>:(
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Hi
Quote : Allegedly this latest "training period" ends on the 18thDec.
The training period should not affect your throughput . It basically establishes the LINE condition and tries to find the opotimum conditons for your line see link below for a fuller description.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm
why the latest training period .(did I miss something)
Regards jeff
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Hi Jeff
Well since the start of my problems, "some work", whatever that is, was done on my connection, and apparently it was put into training for a second time, that's all I know apart from it changing from fast to interleaved...but I've been constantly in touch with support and another Openreach engineer visited on Friday to perform a pairs test on my line, and found absolutely nothing wrong with it. He also checked the card at the exchange and found nowt also, he then rang me to say he was contacting BTw to get a lift and shift carried out, as clearly my line has trained, synched and settled but throughput is chronic in the afternoons particularly.
He also stated that my exchange was "well known" for throughput issues... :( not a good sign, I was hopeful when I heard about having a lift and shift...but now?
Lift it from a bad card to another bad one? I can feel another disappointment coming on..
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Have you noticed any correlation between the time of day and the throughput speeds that you are achieving?
Hi
Have tried to log your slow throughput as suggested by Orainsear?
Regards Jeff
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No Jeff I didn't (appologies to orainsear , for missing your post) :-[
However for the past two days my bandwidth throughput has improved dramatically, getting a good 2 megs connection at most times. :)
Whether it's because there's more bandwidth available owing to people being at home and businesses are not using bandwidth, dunno.
But during my last comms with support they inferred an engineer who visited me (openreach) had allegedly found an alarm at the exchange, apparently on a fibre connecting our exchange to a bigger one in Scunny. 8)
Things did seem to get better from 11 a.m Crimbo morning onwards, although find it hard to believe Wholesale bods worked Xmas morning!!!
Fingers crossed things are better atm.
Got a few errors on stats, but hey.....opinions welcome,,
ADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 1 day, 3:14:42
Downstream 3,488 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps
ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 7.1 dB / 19.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 56.0 dB / 31.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 17.9 dBm / 11.9 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 128548 / 42
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 275 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 29
Error Seconds (Local) 161
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>>> Got a few errors on stats, but hey.....opinions welcome,,
Its normal to see FEC errors if interleaving is switched on.. its just a sign that interleaving (and error correction) is doing what its supposed to - so I wouldnt be concerned about thost.
The strange figure on the CRCs is a known reporting issue on some routers so should be ignored.
Aside from that.. the rest are minimal and perfectly normal.
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Thx Kitz...and thx to all those with advice.
Well it's day 5 of a good connection atm, so not tempting providence with any synical remarks!
We;re pretty good, perhaps they fixed said fibre after all. ;D
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:fingers:
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Nope!! :no:
Back to square one, but apparently BTw have concluded that there are 18 people in my area with a bandwidth throughput problem, and the Proactive Care Team are on the case, Doh!
Well I've connected my Netgear DG834GT thinking perhaps it'll give the line some stability, coz it reset back to interleaved from fast connection, and my IP profile did go up to 4000!!!..but it's back down to 3500 with so:
ADSL Firmware Version A2pB022c.d20e
Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 3648 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 448 kbps
VPI 0
VCI 38
I telnetted the router to check the stats, follows:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Have downloaded and installed the latest DGteam software to my gt and left the router running, regardless of what BTw are doing, if anything.
The other day my snr dropped to 2.5db and this is when my connection speed increased, but alas the bt hub reset itself after a while.
Thought I'd try to use the snr fix, to see if things are better at night time. I gather BTw 's target snr is 6db, so I have the router at 100%default at present, and its plotting 6db+/- 0.6 atm. Plotting it on routerstats 5.8.
Anybody give me a heads up on using the snr fix correctly pls?....not certain I've grasped it all yet. ::)
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hi
Yes the default Target SNR margin is 6db. Some lucky peopple may tweak down to 3 db and still have a stable connection with improved Synch speed . Some people may tweak upwards to get a more stable line sacrificing synch speed for stability (gamers may prefer that to having interleave on ). Others will tweak down from an enhanced Target SNR margin (caused by some now fixed line problems) to regain some synch speed.
So if your line is stable at 6db then it is probably best to leave it at that . Don't forget that SNR margin is just one of the stats to be considered .
Regards Jeff
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Thanks for that Jeff, are there other useful tweeks that can be done in the DGt settings as well?
I did wonder about trellis but left well alone, till I grasp it more.
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Also, forgot to mention, but from this data....is my line re-training again?
BTw are doing something, allegedly.
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 1
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 3360 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: OFF
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 8.0 16.0
Attn(dB): 57.0 31.5
Pwr(dBm): 17.8 11.9
Max(Kbps): 3648 868
Rate (Kbps): 3360 448
G.dmt framing
K: 106(0) 15
R: 16 16
S: 2 8
D: 8 2
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 1 1
B: 116 15
M: 2 8
T: 1 1
R: 16 16
S: 2.1367 9.0000
L: 936 128
D: 8 2
Counters
SF: 440788 440787
SFErr: 29 0
RS: 14986812 3745695
RSCorr: 3002 16
RSUnCorr: 206 0
HEC: 24 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 59381753 0
Data Cells: 1488620 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 194 0
SES: 14 0
UAS: 185 0
AS: 7493
INP: 0.54 1.00
PER: 1.86 1.96
delay: 4.27 4.50
OR: 29.95 28.44
Bitswap: 0 0
Total time = 1 days 1 hours 15 min 29 sec
SF = 5332351
CRC = 1168
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES = 194
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 15 min 29 sec
SF = 266444
CRC = 28
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 15
Latest 15 minutes time = 29 sec
SF = 1711
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52982
CRC = 3
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 1
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5065907
CRC = 1140
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES = 179
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 1
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 19
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 9
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52982
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 1
Showtime Drop Reason: 1
Last Retrain Reason: 1
# ifconfig
ath0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:18:4D:1A:6C:DE
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:29228 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:30437 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:5965408 (5.6 MiB) TX bytes:18903546 (18.0 MiB)
br0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:18:4D:1A:6C:DE
inet addr:192.168.0.1 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:747838 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:629670 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:128418294 (122.4 MiB) TX bytes:253289520 (241.5 MiB)
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:18:4D:1A:6C:DE
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:658924 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:570052 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:124230059 (118.4 MiB) TX bytes:188220950 (179.5 MiB)
Interrupt:30 Base address:0x6800
lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1
RX packets:12362 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:12362 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:3619143 (3.4 MiB) TX bytes:3619143 (3.4 MiB)
ppp0 Link encap:Point-Point Protocol
inet addr:86.155.219.241 P-t-P:217.47.111.250 Mask:255.255.255.255
UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST MTU:1458 Metric:1
RX packets:130192 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:114518 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:3
RX bytes:147873594 (141.0 MiB) TX bytes:17826294 (17.0 MiB)
wifi0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:18:4D:1A:6C:DE
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:158485 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:4376133
TX packets:49503 errors:8412 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:199
RX bytes:16761720 (15.9 MiB) TX bytes:22320155 (21.2 MiB)
Interrupt:32 Memory:a8000000-a8010000
#
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Hi
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 1 . I think that is just that you lost synch its as a result of Showtime Drop Reason: 1 .This is Not the same as the 10 day training period
Regards Jeff
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Thanks for that Jeff, are there other useful tweeks that can be done in the DGt settings as well?
I did wonder about trellis but left well alone, till I grasp it more.
Thanks Jeff
It did lose sync, as I tried out the snr tweek! :blush:
Can you offer any advice re- my post, I understand if not.
Thx
Appreciate the help
Roger
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pm on its way :)