Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: UncleUB on July 12, 2007, 09:04:27 AM

Title: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 12, 2007, 09:04:27 AM
Hi,I had a line fault about 3 weeks ago,before the engineer came my IP profile was 250k,upstream 448kbps,downstream 960 kbps.After he fixed the line fault my IP profile was 1000k,448kbps upstream and 1856 kbps downstream.Over the next couple of weeks my IP profile and upstream have remained the same but my downstream had gone down to as low as 1344kbps.however at the beginning of the week my IP profile has dropped to 500k,my upstream is still 448kbps but my downstream is now 968kbps.The engineer visited me yesterday and said my line was ok,as was my router(BT voyager 220v).he telephoned someone in the UK where the machine that sets the speeds is,he was told yes my line is set at 500k but he would lift this to 2mb.This has not happened.My computer is 3 months old ,I scan every week for spyware etc,no problem there.Can anyone tell me whats wrong.I am told I am 4000 metres from the exchange.I live in Sheffield,only about 2 miles from where the flooding was.Can this be a problem.Also BT say mine line can only support 2MB.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on July 12, 2007, 10:06:40 AM
Hi UncleUB and welcome.

First, you have an ADSL Max connection, so the engineer can't 'lift this to 2 Mbps'. It's a rate-adaptive service which automatically adjusts its speed to line conditions. By the same token, the statement that your line can only support 2 Mbps has no real meaning with a Max connection.

There are numerous possible reasons why your connection speed varies so much, e.g.:-

- an intermittent line fault
- serious local interference
- problems with your own telephone extension wiring
- poor quality or defective filters

There's a lot of helpful information about improving your own installation at http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm, and it's certainly worth swapping filters if you have some alternatives available.

If you can give us your router stats (in particular, downstream attenuation and noise margin) it would help us to give more advice.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 12, 2007, 10:47:03 AM
thanks for your quick reply Roseway,i,m new to broadband but i think these figures are what you want
Downstream
Line rate 896kbps
noise margin 13.9dB
line attenuation 63.0dB
output power 16.6dBm

Upstream
line rate 448kbps
noise margin 11.0dB
line attenuation 31.5dB
output power 12.0dBm

I have changed the microfilter( BT sent me 2)My internal wiring is brand new,which was installed by BT in April.I have only the one phone line,no extensions,sky boxes,fax machines etc.I hope this helps
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 12, 2007, 11:35:31 AM
Hi and welcome

63dB indicates a long line.  The 4000m could be "straight line" rather than length of the actual phone line.

You can check the "crow flies distance" from here.  Put in your phone no and post code - then once the results come up click the locality button.
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/checker2.php

>> IP profile was 1000k,448kbps upstream and 1856 kbps downstream

That sounds about right

>> my upstream is still 448kbps but my downstream is now 968kbps.

There appears to have been some sort of deterioration on the line  :(

Re flooding - It is a possibility water on underground cables can cause problems.


>> he was told yes my line is set at 500k but he would lift this to 2mb.

If your line is syncing at 968 kbps then the line will indeed be set at 500k - its the way the dynamic system works.  Even if he did manage to get someone to reset the bRAS profile, then as soon as your next sync occurred at below 1152 kbps, then the DLM system would automatically switch you back to 500k.

The fact that your router has never synced above 2272 kbps on MAX even temporarily (and the 63db atten) would indicate that your line isn't capable of a fixed 2Mb service.  Your line could probably cope with a fixed 1Mb connection - where at least you would get the full 1Mb rather than messing with bRAS and IP profiles.
Its certainly an option to consider.

Alternatively at the end of this month some new IP profiles are going to be introduced which may help you.
The new profiles 750Kbps and 1250Kbps may be the ones that interest you.

If you can fine tune your line and stay there then you may pick up one of the higher profiles.

Currently your SNR Margin stands at 13.9 dB - which gives you a bit of leeway.  Its worth giving your router a reboot NOW whilst there is a good margin on the line and see if you can attain a higher sync speed.
Immediately after you have re-synced, can you make a note again of your line stats again..  I'd like to see the SNR Margin straight after a reboot to try see what Target SNR has been set on your line. 
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 12, 2007, 05:42:37 PM
Thanks for the info,I rebooted the router which showed the following
line rate 1600 down/448 up
noise margin 13.9/11.0 up
So the only thing which changed was the downstream from 896kbps to 1600kbps.Is it possible to get downstream 1600kbps when my IP profile is only 500k.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on July 12, 2007, 06:48:50 PM
Your router will always sync at the best speed it can for the target noise margin. It looks as though your target noise margin is either 12 or 15 dB, which means that the DLM process has increased it from the default 6 dB because the connection hasn't been stable. The IP profile is derived from the sync speed, so if you continue to sync at 1600 kbps for three days your IP profile should go up to 1000 after that period, and your download speed will increase accordingly.

But there's no guarantee that this will happen with a long line like yours unfortunately. :(
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 12, 2007, 08:58:08 PM
Yep - what roseway says.

As I suspected it does look like your target SNR has been increased to possibly 12dB* which is affecting the maximum sync speed, but your line must need this in order to be stable.

If I were you I would now keep the router connected for as long as you can and dont reboot it..  your now syncing at a higher rate of 1600 which you need to keep there and stable for a minimum of 3-4 days.

If you can achieve this - then your IP profile should automatically increase to 1000 kb

>> Is it possible to get downstream 1600kbps when my IP profile is only 500k.

Yes/no - depends what you mean by downstream.
If you mean throughput speeds then no
if you mean sync speeds, as you have just seen, its why I wanted you to reboot the router asap during the day to take advantage of any spare SNR Margin, to try connect at a higher rate.

The value of the SNR Margin in your case is what is keeping your IP profile lower.  You will probably find that in the evenings your SNR Margin is lower than during the day.  If you resync when your router is showing a lower SNR then your sync speed wont be as high.

As soon as you sync at the lower speeds then that puts your IP profile back down to the 500 region.
The trick is trying to avoid a resync when SNR Margin is at its lowest.

Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: tired on July 15, 2007, 01:20:50 AM
Hi,

Its also worth looking at a different hub, not too sure what one you have a present, on a long line the 2 wire or netgear routers perform very well, up to 500kbs difference on mine, couple that with a top filter and cable you may hit that magic 2016sync speed to get you the new 1750 profile at the end of the month.

cheers,
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 15, 2007, 08:49:36 AM
Hi,Iam using the router BT supplied which is the BT voyager 220v adsl voice router,and they also supplied me with 2 filters.I have read with great interest about having a stuck bRAS and the problems getting the BT Indian tech support to acknowledge this.I have had all those scripted replies from them which makes you want to slash your wrists!!.Are there any good ISP,s out there which have UK technical support,and will understand about a stuck bRAS and actually help you sort it out.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on July 15, 2007, 09:51:50 AM
Zen fulfil those criteria, but they are quite a bit more expensive.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 15, 2007, 11:04:15 AM
Hi Roseway,I,ve a lot of good press about Zen,are they that good? Are there any more ISP,s with UK call centres?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 15, 2007, 11:16:08 AM
Hi again,just done speedtester after 3 days since re boot.Ip profile gone up from 500k to 1000k . :)upstream 448kbps/downstream 1600kbps.I suppose since my line attenuation is 63.0db this is not too bad.The only thing is the test concludes that the actual IP achieved during the test is 0kbps (zero).This has happened to every bt speedtester I have done?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on July 15, 2007, 12:42:27 PM
I guess that result is just a bug in the tester. I presume that in practice you always get better than 0 kbps. :)

Regarding ISPs, yes, Zen is that good. I've seen good reports about Newnet as well, but no personal experience.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 17, 2007, 05:21:25 PM
Hi,Just done a bt speedtester and found my downstream speed gone from 1600kbps to 1184 kbps,IP profile is still 1000k? actual IP throughput achieved during the test was 202k(Its only ever registered 0 kbps up to now).When I checked my router it said time connected 1hr 27 mins yet I never turn it off.I re booted over five days ago so what causes my router to do this.Also Line margin gone from 14.3 to 15.3 downstream.Is that better or worse?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 17, 2007, 07:12:02 PM
hmmm  not looking too good.

it looks like to me that your router has had to reconnect due to poor signal.  Therefore its had to try and sync at a lower speed to compensate.

Im wondering if your low speeds could be due to getting lots of crc/hec errors.   These occur when the signal strength falls and your router has to re-request packets, which can and does cause some pretty poor speeds whilst this is going on.

Does your router record HEC/CRC Errors / Errored Seconds?

>> Line margin gone from 14.3 to 15.3 downstream

With maxdsl its impossible to say when you just look at the one statistic - we need to view the overall stats to be able to form a more accurate diagnostic.

The theory is that the higher the SNR Margin the better the line...  but you also have to take into account the sync speed.

So for example if your stats are
SNR Margin 15.3dB but you are syncing at 1184 kbps.
My stats are
SNR Margin 12.5 dB but Im syncing at 8128 kbps.

At first glance you may perhaps (wrongly) think that yours is the better line because its got a higher SNR Margin. 
However the 2nd set of stats are actually better...  because the higher the sync speed the more SNR Margin is required.

Hope that makes sense - if not theres a more in depth info :- An explanation of SNR and SNR Margin.

 (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm)
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 18, 2007, 07:18:27 AM
Hi Kitz,just looked at my router figures(BT voyager 220v)Only errors I can see are HEC errors 217 downstream,0 upstream.There is nothing about CRC errors?. Also superframe errors? 339 down,220up.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 18, 2007, 01:26:48 PM
Its me again,sorry but iam confused,every time I look at the router stats I see the hec errors are going up .From 217 downstream this morning to 249 downstream now.Also super frame errors are up from 339 downstream 220 upstream this morning to 453 downstream 414 upstream now.Does this mean my router will reboot again because of these errors?Can anything be done to sort this out,or because my line attenuation is 63.0db I have to just accept that my signal will always be weak.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 18, 2007, 02:19:23 PM
Hiyas -

The fact that errors are rising does show that there is data thats"erroring" and therefore having to be re-requested.  When you get a pile of errors together then because data has to be re-requested it does indeed slow down your actual throughput speed. :(

However although they are rising they arent really racking up like it could to give so much slower speeds.

>> Does this mean my router will reboot again because of these errors

Possibly..  errors accumulating normally indicates a poor signal ratio and can be premlinary to your router resyncing.  They can be an early warning sign that your SNR is dropping too low.
There isnt anything you can do to stop it happening because it is down to the strength of your signal, and what your router can "hear".

Whats your SNR Margin at right now (full line stats would be good too)
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 18, 2007, 02:35:28 PM
Thanks Kitz,stats 
line rate 1184 down 448 up
noise margin 15.3 down 11.0 up
line attenuation 63.0 down 31.5 up
output power 16.6 down 12.0 up
IP profile 1000k.
Is this all the stats you need?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 18, 2007, 07:56:05 PM
Hi

hmmm cant really see that much wrong with those the Noise margin looks fine and a bit higher than I anticipated it being tbh. 

Therefore if you are getting errors slowly racking up then the cause is possibly short bursts of interference rather than something being continually on...  However its a bit impossible to say without actually being there and seeing if theres fluctuations in the snr margin at the same time.  It could just be normal day to day fluctuations.

Your router is reporting 63db - which is the max that some routers report - therefore its possible that your line may be longer.  There are many 60dB lines that struggle to maintain a 500 IPprofile so if youre managing 1000 then that could well be all that your line is capable of.

iirc eric has already suggested on the previous page that you do all the usual stuff to try and give your line the best chance - which iirc you already have.

Theres some new IPprofiles which are due out at the end of this month which may benefit lines such as yours in that you wont have such a big drop between 500 and 1000. 
TBH Im not sure what else I can suggest for you Im afraid..  unless any of the other guys have any comments to make :?
Sorry :/
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on July 19, 2007, 07:03:39 AM
I've not really got anything to add, I'm afraid. A long line like that is always more vulnerable to noise problems, and a 1000 profile is not bad in the circumstances. The target noise margin seems to be making the sync speed a bit lower than it might be, but that's probably necessary to achieve some sort of stability. Sorry I can't give more comfort. :(
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 22, 2007, 09:17:43 AM
To Kitz,Roseway and all the guys who helped me with my problems,many thanks and just to say at the moment I am still getting 1mb,which considering how far I am from the exchange is not too bad.Just two things about any one considering BT.
1,You always get a prompt response to your queries.2,Its the response you get,Internet options,delete cookies etc etc etc etc.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 22, 2007, 09:15:20 PM
>> Its the response you get,Internet options,delete cookies etc etc etc etc.

Isn't that the solution for everything?
/me runs and hides. :D
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 26, 2007, 06:42:11 PM
Hi again,My connection has been steady now for 8 days now, 1000IP profile,1184 down 448 up,but the actual IP achieved during BT speedtester was 206kbps.What does the throughput speed mean.Is this the speed Iam getting or is 1184kbps downstream the one.Is it worth re booting the router or is this considered ok for my line attenuation of 63.0db.Noise margin 15.0 downstream.I have noticed loading pages seems slower.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: soms on July 26, 2007, 07:05:38 PM
Throughput is the actual download speed.

Sync speed is the connection speed between your router and the exchange

Your IP profile of 1000K is the maximum download rate you can get. So in theory, dependent on congestion and so forth you could get an actaul throughput of 1000K, or a download rate of 125 Kilobytes per second.

and throughput is the real time data rate you were getting from the ISP when running the speedtest, which works out as 206K = 27.75 Kilobytes per sec (8 bits to a byte, downloads are measured in kbytes and your line speed in kbits).
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 27, 2007, 02:57:29 AM
Som's already given you the relevant details, but theres also a bit more info here
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/speeds2.htm

Theres also one other factor for slow speeds, that particularly occurs on long/problematic lines and thats error rate. 
If the signal from the exchange is very week, then some data doesnt get through and packets are dropped.   You router has to request this data which makes your speeds appear very slow.

Have alook on your router and see if its reporting a lot of CRC/HEC errors... or errored seconds.

Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 27, 2007, 01:47:22 PM
Hi Kitz,Just had a look at my router stats (bt Voyager 220) HEC errors 1328 downstream 0 upstream.Can't see CRC listed,only OCD errors,14 downstream, 0 upstream.Got a lot of superframe errors ( what are these) 2205 downstream,4580 upstream.Would I benefit from having an NTE5 face plate.I only have one bt cable coming in from outside,and that wiring and box is new,fitted by BT.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 27, 2007, 04:49:03 PM
I believe Superframe errors are x number of CRC errors. 

Unlike FEC errors CRC and HEC errors are uncorrectable errors therefore the data has to be rerequested.  When conditions are poor,  these errors start racking up and it is normal to see much slower speeds during this period (for obvious reasons certain things will appear to take twice as long as normal).

>> Would I benefit from having an NTE5 face plate.I only have one bt cable coming in from outside,and that wiring and box is new,fitted by BT.

Easy way to find out - connect your router direct in to the test socket behind the master socket and compare your line stats to see if they are any better.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/troubleshooting.htm
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: soms on July 27, 2007, 05:03:30 PM
I wouldn't start getting to worried about those error stats....

Just looked up this info on the useless home hub.

Uptime:   0 days, 16:47:14

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]:   5.77 / 71.05

FEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 10,813,978
CRC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 39,904
HEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 17,562

lol, must be "poor conditions" as kitz called it  :D
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 27, 2007, 05:19:31 PM
Depends how long those errors have been racking up and over what time frame.
Lots in quick sucession isnt good..   You can also start accumulating them during a thunder storm for eg.

FEC errors can be more or less ignored since these are recoverable errors and show that interleaving is working as it should.
HEC errors should in theory be less than CRC errors, since Im led to believe that they are at the atm level.. therefore its quite likely that a HEC error will increase both the HEC and CRC error count.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 28, 2007, 12:06:05 PM
Hi Kitz,those errors I gave you are over a 9 day period.I have been connected now for nearly11 days without interuption,so at least my line is stable even though it is quite slow.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 29, 2007, 09:09:40 PM
Out of interest how is the line performing now?

Im wondering if things have settled down and speeds have risen more in line with your profile.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 30, 2007, 08:38:08 AM
Hi Kitz,Just done a bt speedtester,1000kbps IP profile,1184kbps down,448kbps up,actual IP throughput achieved during the test 0kbps(this zero throughput happens about 8out 10 speedtests)
noise margin 15.1dB downstream 11.0dB upstream.Line attenuation 63.0db.The downstream line margin has only gone between 15.6 and 14.9 since I last re booted,13 days ago.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 30, 2007, 10:49:58 AM
Hi

Profile and sync look about right for your line..  its the throughput that seems to be the problem.

What results do you get on a speedtest from BBmax http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on July 30, 2007, 12:40:33 PM
Hi Kitz,just run BroadbandMax speedtest 3 times 1)843down,306up.2)779down,366up.3)902down,255up.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on July 30, 2007, 01:24:35 PM
Those speeds look fine :)  :thumbs:

It would appear that its the BTw performance monitor thats being silly with your connection and showing the zero throughput problem. :/
Keep an eye on those BBMax speeds, but aside from the performance tester it looks like all is running as it should. :)

Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 01, 2007, 09:35:09 AM
Hi,been connected without problems for over two weeks now.Iam getting 1mb,when I check with other ISP,s they all say my line will support 1MB.When the Bt engineer came out to me last time he was going to recommend in his report that my line be fixed at 1MB.Is this what could have happened?Is there any way off checking that it is fixed?I am supposed to be on Bt option 1 up to 8mb ADSL max.£17.99 for 1mb!!!!They didn't tell me my line would only support 1mb when I signed up for 18 months at the beginning of May.This is my first time with broadband so I did not know the pitfalls.Any ideas?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on August 01, 2007, 09:38:42 AM
>> recommend in his report that my line be fixed at 1MB.Is this what could have happened?Is there any way off checking that it is fixed?

If you provide us with a new set of  line stats from your router we should be able to tell you.
Also look and see in there if theres anything in them about Interleaved or FAST mode.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 01, 2007, 10:20:47 AM
Hi Kitz,line stats    downstream      upstream
      line rate            1184                   448
 noise margin         14.9                     11.0
line attenuation     63.0                   31.5
output power         16.6                   12.5

The only thing I can see is Latency Type:  fast,and interleaver depth :1 downstream 1 upstream?
Sorry I can't help more
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on August 01, 2007, 10:30:40 AM
>> line rate            1184                   448

That shows that you're still on Max.

If you were on a fixed line rate then your upstream wouldnt be 448 and your downstream would be 1152.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 01, 2007, 10:42:46 AM
Thanks for that Kitz,just done a bbmax speedtest 1035 down,368up.Done 7 test in last 3days best downstream 1255,worst downstream 960.best upstream,382,worst upstream 349.Why would bt say my line will support 2mb when I can only get 1mb?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on August 01, 2007, 11:25:49 AM
The BT checker is just an estimated best guess. 
No-one can say for sure how a particular line will perform with max since theres too many variables that not only apply to your line, but also can be affected by whats going on in or around your home.

With Max the better your SNR then the higher your speeds will be.  The more *noise* there is, then this will affect your signal quality.  Hence why we always recommend checking to see if there is anything you can do within your own home to improve your signal quality and reduce noise.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 02, 2007, 06:52:32 PM
Hi,I just contacted Bt faults about my speed told me to re boot the router,now my speed has gone from 1019kbps downstream to 654 kbps,and upstream 377 to 382.This was done with bbmax speedtest.My routers stats are as follows.
line rate 768 down 448 up
noise margin 14.9 down 10.0 up
line att 63.0 down 31.5 uu
output power 14.6down 12.0.
Outside my home there is 7 lines coming from the telegraph pole,I put all their numbers into BTw line checker and it reported that they could all support up to 3.5 mb adsl max,except mine which will only support 1 mb.I asked the indian faults dept about this,needless to say thats why i have re booted and lost more speed.Tried bt speedtester but kept getting an error message so I don't know my IP profile.It was a 1000kb before the re boot,so i guess that will have dropped.Is there any other speedtest that will give me my IP profile?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on August 02, 2007, 08:02:32 PM
>> now my speed has gone from 1019kbps downstream to 654 kbps,

D'oh. :doh:
back to square 1 and waiting a few days again for the bRAS to catch up :(

 okay ..  Leave your router as it is for now - SNR Margin is normally at its worst in the evenings. 
Each time you re-sync your PC then the DLM will reconnect you at the highest speed it can whilst still giving you an SNR Margin of 12 or 15 (which ever its set at).

Tomorrow morning check your SNR Margin and once it goes higher than 15 (The higher the better)...  then attempt another resync.
The higher your SNR Margin is then the better your sync speed will be when you reconnect.

The lesson in your case is avoid doing a reboot when the SNR Margin is less than 15dB :(

No sorry theres no other way of finding out your IP profile - apart from asking your ISP to do a WOOSH test.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 02, 2007, 08:19:05 PM
Hi Kitz,will follow your instructions tomorrow.Just done another bbmax speedtest ,gone down to 486kbps downstream,378kbps upstream.Router noise marin gone from 14.9 to 15.1.I am so glad to have found this forum,pity Bt Indian support don't use it!!!!!!
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on August 02, 2007, 08:23:18 PM
yw

hopefully tomorrow morning your SNR Margin will be higher allowing you a "decentish" speed again. (once the bRAS profile has caught up).
Good luck
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 03, 2007, 01:57:07 PM
Hi,did the re boot this morning to no avail,Bt speedtester as follows Ip profile 500k,832kbps downstream,382 upstream.Did bbmax speedtest 439 kbps downstream,382 upstream.Roter stats as follows,

line rate 832 down 448 up
noise margin 15.4 down 11.0 up
line att 63.0 down 31.5 up
output power 14.6 down 12.0 up.

Phoned Bt faults who told me to turn everything off (router,computer,unpug all cables) for 4 hours,then my speed should be back.Are these people for real?
In the space of a month my downstream speed have varied from 1845 down to 486 kbps.When the Bt engineer first came he went up the pole outside and moved my line on to a spare one,ever since then I have had these problems.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 06, 2007, 09:35:10 AM
Hi,Just to follow up my last post,IP profile gone back up to 1000k, 1344down/448up,noise margin 14.3 down/12.0up.Did a bbmax speedtest 976 down/382 up.I think I will have to resign myself to not being able to get more than 1meg,I guess I,m not on my own on that one.
 The thing that annoys me is that when I signed up for Bt option 1 at the end of April 2007 I not told what speed my line could support,but I could get Bt Vision!!!I now no I can't.Also when the engineer fixed my line fault on 25 June he said I was syncing at 1mb but It should go up to 2mb when the line adjusts.Its never been near 2mb.Have I got a good case to get my contract cancelled (18 months) without any financial penalties?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on August 06, 2007, 03:58:41 PM
Hmm.. the 18-month Option 1 contract includes a free setup, so they're not likely to release you from the contract early unless you can prove that they promised a capability which you're not getting (rather unlikely I imagine). In any event, the technical performance wouldn't be any different with another ISP; you're on the end of a long line and that's what's limiting your connection speed. It's probably grin-and-bear-it time I'm afraid. :(
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 06, 2007, 05:36:31 PM
Just as I thought Roseway,please excuse me while I go and lay some fibre optic cable.Ps,is there a grin and bear it book for dummies?????????
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on August 06, 2007, 06:51:31 PM
:)
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on August 07, 2007, 09:01:54 AM
Hi, just a query anyone,I have used the broadband checker on DSLZoneuk and got results that confused me.When I entered my Bt phone number it said my line could support 1mb.When I entered just my postcode ( for LLU only) it said I could get 3.5 mb.Do you get faster speeds with LLU?Distance to exchange as the crow flies 1.83km.My underground cabling must twist and wind as my router gives line attenuation as 63.0 down/31.5 up.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on August 07, 2007, 11:04:37 AM
As things stand at present, a higher top speed (up to 24 Mbps) is available with LLU in some places, but I don't think that it would give much (if any) improvement on a very long line like yours. (I may be wrong on this, and I'm open to being corrected by someone who knows better). These speed indicators are only estimates, and I don't know where the LLU data comes from. You would still be stuck with your BT contract anyway, of course.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: mr_chris on August 08, 2007, 05:19:48 PM
As far as I'm aware, the LLU Postcode checker just does a guess as to the length of your line, based on distance from the exchange plus a bit to allow for your phone line not going in a straight line.

Unfortunately some lines (like yours) seem to go a lot longer way around than usual, so with LLU you would probably not get any more speed from your line. You may get a little depending on what your targer SNR margin is set at, but ADSL via a LLU provider isn't really any different to BT's ADSL, especially below speeds of 8Mb.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: kitz on August 08, 2007, 07:16:06 PM
Correct.

Although I Be*lieve some LLU providers have access to the BT database which gives them an approximation of your actual line length.  From this you can then get an approx idea of the line attenuation (obviously this will differ depending on local conditions).

The attenuation can then give you an approximation of your maximum speed (but this can differ depending on hardware etc)... so as you can see its all quite vague.

adsl2+ does use slightly different technology which can give you higher speeds... but if your line is anything over 45-50dB then you are very unlikely to see anything that much better on LLU than you would on Max.

Maximum speed calculator (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.htm)
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 18, 2007, 07:27:55 AM
Hi all,after getting around 1mb steady for the last 6weeks I find this morning my router has re synced at 800kbps downstream and 448 upstream,ip profile 500kb.
line stats
noise margin  14.2 down/11.0 up
line att 63.0down/31.5 up
output power 16.1 down/12.0 up.

the ony errors since the re sync 17 hours ago are superframe errors 296 down/192 up.And HEC errors 144down/0 up.
Did a bbmax speed test  485kbps down/383 up.
I know things changed at btw last month so will I still have to wait about 3 days to to see a speed increase?
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on September 18, 2007, 09:08:24 AM
>> I know things changed at btw last month so will I still have to wait about 3 days to to see a speed increase?

Since the recent changes, this question has become more difficult to answer. Broadly speaking, big drops in IP profile should be restored quickly when the connection speed increases again, and small drops will take longer to restore. Of course, nothing will happen until the router reconnects at a higher speed, so it's probably a good time to reboot the router.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 18, 2007, 11:36:11 AM
Hi Roseway,just done a reboot but the stats are slightly lower 704 downstream/448 upstream.Noise margins about the same 14.2 down/11.0 up
What do the stats need to be to get a better re-sync speed.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on September 18, 2007, 12:55:03 PM
You'll have to sync at 864 or more to get the next higher IP profile (750) and 1152 for a 1000 profile.

It does rather look as though something may have worsened on your line (perhaps temporarily). If you've done all you can to make your own internal wiring and connections as ideal as possible there probably isn't much more you can do unfortunately. :(
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 19, 2007, 04:17:37 PM
Hi,just phoned Bt broadband faults who after much waffling on  ran a check on my line and tell me I have a fault and it has been passed on to the engineers.I live in hope. :help:
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on September 19, 2007, 04:20:46 PM
Here's hoping then! :congrats:
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: soms on September 19, 2007, 05:34:54 PM
Quote
Hi,just phoned Bt broadband faults who after much waffling on  ran a check on my line and tell me I have a fault and it has been passed on to the engineers.I live in hope.

I get the feeling this has become part of the script... I was told there was a line fault when all I wanted was the IP profile unstuck. Give it a day or two and you will have a phone call from them saying that they couldn't identify the fault that "you" reported.

There is always a chance that there is a real fault though.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 19, 2007, 06:06:20 PM
Cheers guys,I'II Keep you posted.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 20, 2007, 09:56:39 AM
Hi guys,just done a re boot of the router 1856kbps downstream/448 upstream,it just hope my line will be able to maintain this.the other stats are noise margin 14.4 down/10.0 up line att 15.5 down?(theres something wrong there as its usually 63.0) 31.5 up.Output power 17.3 down/12.4 up.will just have to see what happens,last time it synched at 1856 it could not maintain it.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on September 20, 2007, 10:45:09 AM
>> line att 15.5 down?(theres something wrong there as its usually 63.0)

Maybe BT have installed your own personal fibre connection, but somehow I doubt it. ;D
Just a bit of router madness.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 20, 2007, 06:13:55 PM
Hi,If I continue to sync @ 1856Kbps what IP profile should I get.Since my re-boot 8 hours ago my IP profile is 750Kb (is this one of the new btw profiles?)
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on September 20, 2007, 06:53:27 PM
You should get an IP profile of 1500 in a short while. There's a table of sync speeds and IP profiles at http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm (scroll to the bottom of the page).
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 21, 2007, 11:33:30 AM
Hi Roseway,you were right.Just run Bt speedtester, IP profile 1500kb,1856 downstream,448 upstream,actual speed achieved during the test 1370kbps.This is the best speed I have ever had.Fingers crossed It will maintain it :-\.BT faults phoned to say the engineer had done something in the exchange and the fault is sorted.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on September 21, 2007, 12:46:02 PM
Could be a result then. Here's hoping. :thumbs:
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 22, 2007, 02:46:51 PM
Hi, just done a speedtest with speedtest.net and noticed my IP address is different since my fault was sorted and my speed increased.Old IP address 86.155.34.8,now 86.156.13.246.Why has this changed.Is it something to do with the exchange.
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: roseway on September 22, 2007, 03:55:37 PM
No, the IP address is assigned by the ISP. Some ISPs fix the address for each subscriber, and some just give you a number from a pool. The fact that it's changed is unimportant (unless you're running an internet server).
Title: Re: BT Option 1 Slow Speed
Post by: UncleUB on September 22, 2007, 04:01:58 PM
Thanks eric,just wondered what was going on.