Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: kitz on June 05, 2007, 12:16:12 PM
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Just ordered a couple of Thomson SpeedTouch 576v5 Wireless ADSL2+ Routers.
At £11.99 + £4 p+p they seem a damn good offer for "backup" routers.. plus a chance to play with the DMT tool.
Warning they are listed as BGrade/Discontinued and therefore only carry DSL depots 30 day warranty.
http://www.dsldepot.co.uk/product_details.asp?idProduct=638
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Fantastic value. There's an argument to say that the v5 was better than the v6, and it's an excellent router.
Eric
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kinda thought it was an offer too good to be missed based on their past reputation.
I know it isnt the "latest and greatest" but its still wireless and ADSL2+
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Kitz,
I have been using the DMT tool with my ST 585 but can you tell me which version works with the 576 router before I get my credit card out and order one :)
Thanks
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Yep it works with v7 (v7.32).
Ive been away for most of the past week, otherwise would have done a lil bit of a write up on this.
I ordered a couple of these - theyre brand new, but now discontinued models. The only thing to bear in mind is that although they are wireless they are only 1 port ethernet so you may need a network switch if you want to use it with more than 1 PC hardwired.
We've also had a play with it on a line that was that previously was using a DG834G, used DMT to amend the target SNR we actually got a line to sync sucessfully at 8096 and the IP profile is now at 7000, rather than 6500. Need to get interleaving turned off to get the full profile, but it seems to be handling the line ok so far.
Finally one quirk with this router (which isnt actually specific to the 576) is that it appeared to have a problem when changing the default username and passy. It appeared to keep locking the new username out and had to reset the router.
However, after a bit of research I found that this problem also occurs on some other ST routers (I found the source after seeing it linked with the HomeHub).. but the actual problem is with IE7.
So if you want to change the default user and/or password, use either Firefox or Opera to do so and it works fine.
For £12 (plus p+p) theyre a damn good buy.
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Thanks kitz
They do seem a very good buy ...guess it's time to spend some money
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oh before I forget the other oddity (again as with all ST v5 firmware) it suffers from the weird first hop thing
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131] over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 9 ms 99 ms 199 ms 192.168.7.100
2 10 ms 9 ms 10 ms 217.47.204.58
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 217.47.204.161
4 10 ms 11 ms 10 ms 217.41.173.9
5 9 ms 11 ms 18 ms 217.41.173.66
6 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 217.41.173.134
7 10 ms 11 ms 9 ms 217.41.173.54
8 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 217.41.165.241
9 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms londonc-access3-s17.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.2.145]
10 15 ms 16 ms 16 ms core1-pos0-6-5-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [62.6.204.21]
11 15 ms 16 ms 15 ms core1-pos9-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [62.6.201.118]
12 15 ms 16 ms 15 ms 194.74.65.6
^C
It doesnt actually affect throughput and its something that seems to be pretty well documented re all v5s.
If you ping the router direct all is fine
C:\Documents and Settings\kitz>tracert 192.168.7.100
Tracing route to 192.168.7.100 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.7.100
Trace complete.
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Received the router from DSL Depot today ...the second ST from them and I really can't fault their service and it works fine. Got the DMT tool to work but as I'm on Orange LLU not sure if I can lower my SNR margin (currently 9 db DS) as I always seem to sync at 6656 Kbs. Not sure if this speed is fixed by Orange but I did receive an email recently telling me my max with them is 6.5 Meg. TBH I'm a bit reluctant to fiddle too much as things are working ok except for the occasional re-sync overnight, the main reason I got the ST 576 to see whether the line is the cause or my ST 585.
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Wouldnt harm to have a small fiddle with the Target SNR to see if it works with LLU
- I cant see any reason why it shouldnt - since its worked with other LLU providers, and worth a shot to see if it will give you a higher sync. If you get a stable higher sync then you have a good reason to ask orange to increase your profile.
The router does seem to be pretty damn stable and its still holding out on the (now) 8096 line without problems.
The only thing I would say is if you are "playing" dont save the config just yet since it flashes it to the routers memory. Although there is always a "go back" to default button.
Dunno if you already know this (apologies if Im teaching grandma to suck eggs) - but to do so you have to enable hidden features in DMT.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/tute/DMTv7.htm
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Had a little fiddle with the DMT tool. Moved the slider down in two stages to the minimum setting and the sync was still 6656 on both resyncs. Looks like LLU is a fixed sync (at least with Orange) but it does pretty much correspond with what I was getting previously on ADSLMax so can't complain. :)
At least Orange seem to be giving better speeds on LLU ...I'm now getting around 5.5 Meg even in the evenings whereas previously their LLU service was abysmal (<2 Mbs) even during off peak hours.
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>> down in two stages to the minimum setting and the sync was still 6656 on both resyncs. Looks like LLU is a fixed sync (at least with Orange)
Must be then :( :(
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>> down in two stages to the minimum setting and the sync was still 6656 on both resyncs. Looks like LLU is a fixed sync (at least with Orange)
Must be then :( :(
Actually, having fiddled a bit more I've discovered that the SNR is tweakable on LLU :)
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Actually, having fiddled a bit more I've discovered that the SNR is tweakable on LLU :)
:) Most others such as Be* & tiscali are :)
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I am guessing then that the Speedtouch 576 get the "kitz seal of approval" ?
I am a little wary of Speedtouch products as the BT Home Hub, a Thompson product is a poor performer compared to the Netgear DG834. Although you can't fault a Speedtouch 330 "frog" USB modem. BTHH is at 1,344K atm with a 7dB margin, how pathetic :(
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>> I am guessing then that the Speedtouch 576 get the "kitz seal of approval"
It has a few quirks which Ive already mentioned above - but on the whole it seems a pretty good lil router and certainly a bargin for what I paid for it.
I was gonna see if chris wrote anything about his (he got one at the same time), but hes been pretty busy the past few weeks, so I'll give the brief outline. He has 39dB line which is sometimes a bit quirky and has fairly steep drops in SNR at times. Hes normally connected with a dg834g v2. For the past few months the netgear has been syncing at around 6-7Mb and has gone through various stages of interleaving on/off and also had increases with the target SNR.
He plugged the speedtouch in and we played with DMT managed to get it to sync at 8076. He then got PN to turn interleaving off and its syncing at 8128kbps and has done for several weeks now. So its holding steady.
Hes been trying to get the target SNR reduced and although Plusnet have tried several times - they played ticket tennis with BTw-. BT have reduced the target SNR down to 9dB but wont take it back to the default 6dB.
So DMT tool has been used to get the extra bit out of the line.
The DG834G works well on his line - so does the speedtouch 576 - but the speedtouch has the slight edge due to target SNR being configurable.
>> Although you can't fault a Speedtouch 330 "frog" USB modem.
Indeed Ive seen the ST 330 work better on some lines than some routers.
Although the HH is in theory a ST 716x, there does seem to be a problem with them on some lines :/
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They're still available, so I've succumbed and ordered one. :)
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Hope you read the bug bears:-
Its only got one ethernet port so you need a network switch. (or you could use the netgear as the network switch)
If you change the default username and passy - it doenst like IE7 (not a problem for you)
It has the ST weird high 1st hop thing - but doesnt affect overall latency.
Its something to play with though especially if you wanna try out DMT and try changing the target SNR on your line.
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Yes, thanks for the reminder, but none of those things are an issue for me. My router is in a cupboard near the master socket, with an ethernet cable to an 8-port switch in the computer room, so I only need one port on the router. The other things are just oddities.
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It turned up just 24 hours after I ordered it - excellent delivery service! I'm using it now, so we'll see how it goes.
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Yep arrived pretty quick for me too. Good luck and enjoy playing let me know the results :)
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Well, after rather less than 3 days my IP profile has gone up a notch from 4500 to 5000. I was syncing right on the borderline for a 5000 profile, so I've used DMT to tweak the target noise margin down just a little. So far, so good.
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And now, after some false starts and a couple of hairy moments, I've managed to upgrade the firmware. Mine came with version 5.3.2.6, and I've upgraded it to 5.4.0.14. I got this firmware from http://mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/speedtouch/routers/ST576/ (the file you want is the one ending in .bin). I couldn't get the upgrade wizard on the CD to work, but the one at http://mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/speedtouch/utilities/ worked fine. It backed up and restored the configuration, but lost contact with the router right at the end, so I had to go into the web interface and hit the connect button to finish the process. All seems to be well now. (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emotionless.co.uk%2Femotes%2Fb%2Fthumbs.gif&hash=1ad59709740f631af6f1e48e2a7d434dcb8e1189)
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>> I've managed to upgrade the firmware. Mine came with version 5.3.2.6, and I've upgraded it to 5.4.0.14.
Thanks for the info - mines still got 5.3.2.6.0 on it.
Out of curiousity is there anything interesting or good about the upgrade?
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I'm not aware of any functional difference, and I can't see any difference in the web interface. I just took a punt and tried it, on the assumption that it would have improvements.
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Thanks eric.
I wondered if theyd done something about the high latency first hop. But I seem to recall that this is a permanent "feature" with many ST routers and something to do with QoS.
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I read somewhere that the first hop effect is a deliberate result of traffic prioritising in the router firmware.
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yep - looks like you and me perhaps been reading the same stuff.
It certainly doesnt affect overall latency nor affect if you ping the 1st hop direct - so must be QoS prioritisation.