Kitz Forum

Computer Software => Windows Vista => Topic started by: kitz on June 18, 2006, 11:37:07 PM

Title: Windows Vista
Post by: kitz on June 18, 2006, 11:37:07 PM
Has anyone tried this yet and what do they think so far?
Title: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on June 19, 2006, 01:38:30 AM
I did try the Longhorn Version during it's early stages but got fed up playing around with it, which was probably a good thing, especially with the built-in "Phone Home, Movie and Music blocking tactics" being employed by Microsoft.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32280

I was going to also post the link for the article with regards the movie blocking (which I also posted on CA) but it's that slow again at the moment I can't find it.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on August 29, 2006, 03:58:06 PM
Price of Microsoft Vista finally leaked.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/28/vista-pricing-leaked/
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: kitz on August 29, 2006, 04:27:10 PM
good spot by someone.

Lets hope that it isnt that much more than XP prices
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on August 29, 2006, 06:01:05 PM
Quote
in other words, not much more than you'd be paying for XP today, and nowhere near the high of $450 "Canadian dollars" that'd we'd previously heard
But like most things these days, only time will tell.

Also which version of Vista are they referring to, although they say compared the price to "XP Home" because as I understand there will be several versions available.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on August 29, 2006, 06:22:51 PM
XP Home or Pro aren't cheap, even if you buy OEM your looking at around ?60 and ?100. Those Vista prices leaked were for retail i would imagine?

At the end of the day, when XP seems old and even more insecure and featureless, if Vista was a really big step (which it wont be for a long while - other than visually) I would just go over to an alternative OS which could cost, well... nothing at all.

And for pity sake, I thought when  XP Home and Pro looked to draw together Win 2K and 9x/ME I thought MS were on a mission to simplify their products, now Vista comes in six vaguely different editions - very helpful.
I appreciate the "starter" edition is for low power PCs, and that is primarily to compete with open source software and existing Windows versions but the other editions are only going to complicate matters further for consumers.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 02, 2006, 09:35:37 AM
Just to say I installed the Vista beta 2 yesterday. I downloaded it a while back but had lost the key! Anyway I just put another hard disk in my comptuer and unplugged my existing one and have just installed it on there. When it expires or I need to go back I just swap out the drives again.

Got a screenie here (http://www.soms.me.uk/images/other/vista020906.jpg).
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: roseway on September 02, 2006, 11:04:51 AM
Got a screenie here (http://www.soms.me.uk/images/other/vista020906.jpg).
Another crawler, I see. :)

Eric
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: kitz on September 02, 2006, 03:01:20 PM
>> Another crawler, I see

lol  ;D
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 02, 2006, 03:05:23 PM
Lol, indeed that is part of my building good will on the forum  :D

Everyone gets on well here as it is, so i didn't need to have the forum on show in another window (you can see it as the Firefox task minimised on the task bar)

I have to say Vista has been very stable so far. I haven't been gaming on it or anything but the most serious problems so far have been trying to install drivers and some programs and things like realplayer and driver-bundled software being shutdown. Lots of stuff though like Firefox, Adobe Photoshop Elements just installs and works fine like on previous versions.

Some people have reported on forums performance problems, but I haven't had any. When MS releases RC1, that should go out for public testing anf fix some outstanding issues so you might fancy trying it. Finally there is the horrid overuse of the words "customize" and "center" everywhere despite having chossen localised settings which make us of proper English.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 02, 2006, 03:20:46 PM
Hi Soms.

Have you had any problems with regards to copywrite DVDs or Music with Media Player.
Either playing or ripping?

Only there was an article that I picked-up-on some time ago saying that it was going to block most activities with regards "Watching, Playing and ripping" copywrite material.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 02, 2006, 03:22:17 PM
I haven't had a go at any DVD/CD tasks yet. I'll try it out and see what happens.

Unfortunately my drive is faulty, so when burning media it failed anyway lol but i'll see what can be played and ripped.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 02, 2006, 03:23:22 PM
Thanks, much appreciated
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 02, 2006, 04:44:29 PM
Music CDs can still be copied to HDD fine using WMP11. It gives you the usual prompt asking if you want to add copy protection and you tick the box saying the content is protected by US and international treaties.

I tried to play a DVD in WMP, without any other DVD decoding application installed. It loaded up the disc contents but gave me an error which itself was eronious. It told me it was low on memory and to close other programs. I was only running one Internet Explorer window and WMP and had over 600MB of physical memory available.

I tried installing a third party DVD decoding app, in my case PowerDVD 6 OEM but that seems to incompatible. I get a compatibility warning and say run anyway and nothing happens. So as of yet no DVD playback.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 02, 2006, 05:06:49 PM
The article I referred to earlier in this thread was in:
Personal Computer World, May 2006, vol.29 NO5, page 113

Unfortunately I no longer have the mag or the on-line link to the article, but it made excellent reading.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 09, 2006, 10:00:47 PM
Just picked this up from another forum and thought it might be of interest.

Microsoft Vista:
"They're essentially trying to take control of the security user interface functions"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/5326654.stm
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: kitz on September 09, 2006, 11:01:56 PM
hmmmm  interesting read there OF

At the same time as Microsoft starts closing off parts of the operating system to security software vendors, it has also released its own security product known as OneCare. The all in one package is designed to look after your computer and all your data, leaving the whole gamut of security on Microsoft's shoulders.

Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 09, 2006, 11:11:36 PM
To be honest I don't really mind them doing that.
I was going to add, "depending on the charge" but I suppose it will have to be built into the original Vista package.

Lets face it, to many programs conflict with MS at the best of times, so at least this would be 2+ less to worry about.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: kitz on September 09, 2006, 11:21:30 PM
I think I was just wondering what affect it would have on the rest of the industry.
It would certainly put more business the way of M$.

I guess I recall the days when Netscape used to be the browser of choice by most users..  until M$ started packaging IE within windows... and pretty soon IE was used by something like 95% of users.

One thing I will give M$ credit for is that they are very good at packaging and marketing a product, so that it becomes used by the majority.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 09, 2006, 11:35:03 PM
Like the time they supplied schools etc with a FREE PC.  :angel:
Not the software though, they had to buy that.  :-X
ONE free PC, and years of revenue from software purchases. Now thats what I call good buisiness sense.  :lol:
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: kitz on September 09, 2006, 11:59:48 PM
indeed  ;D
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 10, 2006, 03:25:09 PM
Just partly ripped from elsewhere and makes some interesting reading.

For Business use:
1. Ultimate: ....... Suggested retail price for full package product, $399.00 USD. Suggested upgrade retail price, $259.00 USD

2. Enterprise: ..... Enterprise edition is only available to Microsoft Volume License customers, it is not available for retail purchase.

3. Business: ........ Suggested retail price for full package product, $299.00 USD. Suggested upgrade retail price, $199.00 USD.

For Home use:
4. Premium: ........ Suggested retail price for full package product, $239.00 USD. Suggested upgrade retail price, $159.00 USD.

5. Basic : ............. Suggested retail price for full package product, $199.00 USD. Suggested upgrade retail price, $99.95 USD.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/editions/default.mspx
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 10, 2006, 04:45:26 PM
It would be interesting to know if Vista will be available OEM like XP is. I doubt it, and I can't be bothered to find out.

Know that I work fulltime i know i wont be spending my hard earned cash on Vista retail/upgrades. Over the last couple of years M$ has had hundreds of pounds of licence fees from me and people I have done jobs for and when I  count the culumative cost of having XP on each of our home PCs I feel i've wasted some money at least!
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: roseway on September 10, 2006, 06:43:34 PM
I hesitate to say it (well, no, I don't hesitate) but there's a wealth of alternative options out there. Several Linux distributions are available as live CDs - you boot and run the system from the CD and nothing gets written to your hard disk. You can test all the features of the OS with no risk, the only caveat being that progam loading from the CD is rather slow. And it doesn't cost you a penny, given a fast internet connection, apart from the price of a writeable CD.

Eric
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 10, 2006, 07:01:30 PM
Roseway:
Yes, you are right at there being a lot of alternatives out there.

But Bill Gates along with many other manufacturers play on the fact (psychology) that a very high percentage of people are, well not really lazy, but more of the stick-in-the-mud types and either don't like changes and are prepared to just go along with what they already know, "just in case things go pear shaped".

Just heard that there will also be a 32 bit version available, obviously to break us in gently before we have to upgrade our PC's to be able to use the newer software thats being developed for the 64 bit PC's.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: mr_chris on September 10, 2006, 07:06:52 PM
It would be interesting to know if Vista will be available OEM like XP is. I doubt it, and I can't be bothered to find out.

I imagine it will be... in fact I'd be incredibly surprised if it isn't! As regards pricing, obviously not sure yet.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 10, 2006, 07:45:23 PM
I expect any new OEM versions will have tighter licensing and distribution conditions than ever before.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: roseway on September 11, 2006, 07:59:35 AM
But Bill Gates along with many other manufacturers play on the fact (psychology) that a very high percentage of people are, well not really lazy, but more of the stick-in-the-mud types and either don't like changes and are prepared to just go along with what they already know, "just in case things go pear shaped".

Dead right of course, and a completely different operating system is a bit of a step in the dark. In fact, one of the biggest problems experienced by Linux newbies is that they expect things to work the same way as they do in Windows, and get frustrated when they don't. It takes a bit of perseverance to get used to different ways of doing things, but it's ultimately satisfying. I'm long past the crossover point where Linux becomes easy to manage and Windows seems totally obscure.

The transition can be made in easy steps though. I mentioned the live CDs, and one of these can be the introduction to Linux. Then you can install it in a dual-boot arrangement, and still retain the Windows comfort zone for as long as you want. Initially at least there will probably be a few Windows programs which you can't do without, but over a period you will find good Linux alternatives to fill the gaps. There is a considerable learning curve, but it's good fun if you've got the time and the inclination.

Eric

[/missionary mode]
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 11, 2006, 10:19:29 AM
The challenge I found was to decide on a distribution and then stick to it.

Its difficult for would-be Linux users to commit because different Linux fans will praise or rubbish the various distributions and Windows users don't know what choices to make. I tried Ubuntu linux for a while which some praised as being so easy to get running given its Debian roots whilst others have rubbished it in favour of distros like SuSe which I have no experience of.

The other problem is having some understanding how Linux works! Most "power" Windows users know the file system, system configuration, settings, basic troubleshooting inside out, whereas if I sat at a linux PC right now, I wouldn't know anything at all about it.

I did get on OK with Ubuntu, managed to install a few extra program packages etc but the best bit was things like networking and hardware worked out of the box (was an old Dell PC). I found the range of software supplied as standard to be confusing, as many programs duplicated the functionality of others (at least you have a choice!) and things like the "multimedia" applications would only play audio or certain formats (even with propriatory libraries installed) so there seemed to be a lack of a all-in-one multimedia player bundled with the software whereas on Windows things like RealPlayer, WMP can play virtually anything audio or video. ... I'll stop boring you now!
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 11, 2006, 10:27:49 AM
I wont repeat all of what you just said,

But I think that was what put me of Linux in the beginning (too many ifs, buts, choices and stories of different versions).
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 11, 2006, 10:56:41 AM
Is there any particular distribution OF would recommend to those wanting to try out Linux? (even if only from LiveCD)  ???
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 11, 2006, 11:16:59 AM
OF?, me, I can't recommend any as I don't use it, sorry. (stick in the mud with windows).
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: roseway on September 11, 2006, 01:22:53 PM
What you guys say about the confusing number of choices is of course true. Distrowatch lists over 400 Linux distributions. Of course, most of those are designed for some specialised purpose, e.g. servers, firewalls, particular countries/languages, and particular slants such as multimedia. For the purposes of newcomers wanting a general-purpose OS, the first few in the Distrowatch list are all that need to be considered. I would rank them as follows:

1. PCLinuxOS - probably the easiest of all to start with, has an excellent suite of configuration utilities.
2. OpenSuSE - ditto, but not QUITE so easy.
3. Ubuntu - generally reckoned to be the coolest of the lot. Very stylish, but not so easy to administer.
4. Fedora - solid and reliable but rather dull.
5. Mepis - ditto.

1, 2 and 5 are available as live CDs, and 1 and 5 can be installed directly from the booted live CD. I recommend PCLinuxOS, which is currently the one I use on my main machine.

In all cases the best way forward is to participate in the user forums for the distro in question. In general, Linux people are very helpful, so long as you are prepared to put a bit of effort in yourself.

Eric
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 11, 2006, 02:19:27 PM
Appologies oldfogy, i confused you with roseway who has used linux  :-\
Hope you didn't mind me using OF as a time saver but i dot think it saves much time anyhow.

Thanks roseway for the helpful recommendations. One point I would make is that Ubuntu is also available as a Live CD/DVD.

Maybe when it comes to crunch time I will take a closer look at using one of the listed distributions.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 11, 2006, 02:26:29 PM
Appologies oldfroggy, i confused you with roseway who has used linux  :-\
Hope you didn't mind me using OF as a time saver but i dot think it saves much time anyhow.

Thanks roseway for the helpful recommendations. One point I would make is that Ubuntu is also available as a Live CD/DVD.

Maybe when it comes to crunch time I will take a closer look at using one of the listed distributions.
How on earth can you confuse me with Roseway? I'm the good looking one. :lol:

And I'll pretend that I missed the "froggy" bit. (British through & through).
Soms: Do you realise, you and I are the only members, every one else are (Mods)
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 11, 2006, 02:29:24 PM
Sorry again. I sometimes tend to skim read so for the last month+ i have had it in my mind that was your forum identity  :-[

Anyhow, edited that  ::)

Perhaps when I get folks names correct and reply to the right people I might become a mod  :D

I can't think why your not one yet?
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 11, 2006, 02:33:54 PM
Quote
I can't think why your not one yet?

Probably because I'm the one that's always getting into trouble.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: roseway on September 11, 2006, 02:37:48 PM
You have to be borderline certifiable to win that accolade. At least, that was how it was in Astral's case; not mine, of course. :P

Eric
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 11, 2006, 02:48:39 PM
Soms:
See what I mean, having a nice chat "about Linux" although it was Vista to start with, and up pops a mod hurling abuse  :police:
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 11, 2006, 02:57:57 PM
Hmm what is the world coming to? That kind of thing is just dispicable. Naughty mod  :no:

Straying off topic a bit, but hey.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: roseway on September 11, 2006, 04:02:27 PM
<mod goes and stands in corner> :-[
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: kitz on September 11, 2006, 08:25:14 PM
disgusting isnt it  :D

tbh guys I dont mind threads like this going slightly off-topic..
If it was totally disrupting the thread or the attitude was different, then I may well think differently. ;)
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: mr_chris on September 11, 2006, 10:21:36 PM
It is totally disrupting the thread :P
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: oldfogy on September 12, 2006, 02:01:44 AM
It is totally disrupting the thread :P
Which, Linux, Mods or both.  :wall:
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: soms on September 12, 2006, 08:08:04 AM
Windows Vista RC1 is now available to download for those already in the testing programme. Received an e-mail inviting me to download it. Its basically another DVD image so i dont know if i want to use the time and bandwidth on it!

RC1 testing programme will reopen soon apparently to those who would like to test it but did not test out Beta candidates.
Title: Re: Windows Vista
Post by: Adam8282 on June 22, 2007, 05:38:46 PM
I'm using Vista x64 Ultimate at the moment. It's OK, but I have some troubles with my old favorite games like StarCraft, and my CRT monitor, which works only 60Hz in games instead 120. :( There are no any 60hz tweak for new Vista display driver :(