Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: SunnyB on April 13, 2009, 04:15:47 PM
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Hi,
We've been having problems with Tiscali broadband for a week now.
From around last Saturday (4th) to Wednesday (8th), the service would connect and disconnect intermittently, but since Wednesday we haven't been able to get online at all. I'm having to use PAYG at the moment.
We have a Siemens SE587 router and all lights - including the ADSL one - show a nice steady green, apart from the "online" one, which is red. I tried using our old Belkin in case the Tiscali-supplied router was giving problems, but that also shows the same - all lights green apart from the "internet" one.
I've just tried using the ADSL line checker here on site and it gave this result:
RAG Test Results
Fixed: 1Mbps and 2Mbps not possible
radsl: Line has over 75dB loss, ADSL unlikely, but will be tested by an engineer on-site
MAX: ADSL Max is available
TPON: No info in database
Check: The check identified another service on your line which may prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection. Examples are : Existing adsl connection, DACs, LLU, TPON etc
Is it possible that this kind of result could be due to the "BT tunnel" issue (and so might eventually be resolved), or has Tiscali finally given up the ghost in our area?
I just tried posting in the Tiscali forum but can only read the boards, not post (maybe due to the Bank holiday?) and interestingly, neither can I access my account details at all there nor do any of the "upgrade package" links seem to be working either.
Any information and/or help very gratefully received!
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Hi SunnyB, and welcome to the forums.
Can you post your router stats for someone to have a look at.
You can find out here how to do it.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php
Looks like you are on a very long line,what speeds were you getting before your problems.
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Hi & welcome to the Forum.
Router stats will help as Uncle says.
As you say, you can`t post in the Tiscali forum, is that the "Broadband Service Support" forum? If it is then no real surprise, to Quote the sticky for that section...
The Service forums are monitored by Tiscali staff Mon-Fri 9:30am - 5:30pm.
The Broadband Service forums are 'Read only' from 5:30pm on Friday until 9:30am on
Monday, although you can continue to use the discussion and product areas during this time. This area is also closed for new posts on bank holidays.
Maybe it`d be better to post in the discussion section? at least someone might b able to suggest something & it`d be on record (as long as it doesn`t get deleted).
As you`re a new member, can I ask how you found this site, it always helps to know how you came by here.
Please enjoy yourself & ask anything you wish, theres plenty of knowledgeable people here.
Regards.
Steve
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Hello UncleUB and stevie,
Thanks for the welcome and swift replies!
I'll get the stats later and post them here if you wouldn't mind taking a look - have never done it before and dial up is painfully slow, also should be doing something else just now :(
I was logged in at Tiscali and tried to post on the "support" board, but when unable to do that assumed it was an out of hours thing. Then tried to post on the "discussion" board, but same result.
Kitz was mentioned on the boards there, so used a suggested Google search for "Tiscali BT outage" (or similar, sorry can't remember exact wording) and found the site here.
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I have put the instructions below as the page mentioned by Unc will take ages to load on Dial up.
Click this: http://192.168.1.1 (http://192.168.1.1)
> Click on Status from the top menu.
> Select DSL Status from the left menu.
Default username = admin. Password = admin
Just copy and paste them here and we will take a look:D
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The page that UncleUB gives loads reasonably quickly, but this page http://192.168.1.1 gives a time out error message.
Our broadband router won't connect at all and I'm using a dial up modem - is that the problem?
(Sorry if this is silly question, but am not at all technically minded.)
We are around 5 miles from the very rural exchange, but have always been reasonably happy with the broadband speed up until last weekend when things started to go badly wrong. What the speed was prior to that, I'm sorry I have no idea, but it worked well enough as we don't download a lot of things, just browse usually.
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Hello UncleUB and stevie,
Kitz was mentioned on the boards there, so used a suggested Google search for "Tiscali BT outage" (or similar, sorry can't remember exact wording) and found the site here.
The search would have been for "Tiscali BB Service Outages"....wouldn`t have a clue who posted it.... :-X :lol:
At least someone found their way here....
You`ll get loads of help & advice here.
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Hi SunnyB,
In order to look at your broadband modem with 192.168 etc. you have to ensure your browser is "looking" at your ethernet cable which must remain plugged into your modem, still with the power applied and with the broadband wire still plugged into your ADSL filter.
This lets your computer examine the data inside the modem, rather than trying to search the web. It follows that it doesn't matter that your broadband modem isn't connecting to Tiscali, as it ought at least be looking at your telephone exchange so should give you the line statistics.
I hope this helps and apologies to others jumping in but I expect SunnyB wants to resolve this as soon as he can.
Kind regards,
walter
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The page that UncleUB gives loads reasonably quickly, but this page http://192.168.1.1 gives a time out error message.
Our broadband router won't connect at all and I'm using a dial up modem - is that the problem?
As Walter posted, the computer needs to be looking for your Ethernet and not via the Dial up.
Disconnect from dial up, and make sure the router is plugged in via the ethernet cable and powered up, then try going to http://192.168.1.1 (http://192.168.1.1) following the instructions I gave earlier. :)
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Thanks for the explanations Walter and jid.
I didn't have to log in, but this is what it says:
Driver Version: 1.75
API Version: GS_API_626
Firmware Version: E.25.41.18 A
Dsp Version: 0x000000e1
Status: ON
US Trained Rate: 448 kbps
DS Trained Rate: 448 kbps
Current US data rate during last 30 sec: 0.153 kbps
Current DS data rate during last 30 sec: 0 kbps
Local Line Attenuation: 55.0 dB
Remote Line Attenuation: 31.0 dB
Local SNR Margin: 14.5 dB
Remote SNR Margin: 16.0 dB
Operation Progress: 0x000000ad
State: Showtime
Rx ATTNDR: 1028000
Tx Cell Rate: 1056
Rx Cell Rate: 1056
Overall Failure: 0
PMmode: L2L3Allowed
Local ITUCountry Code: 0x0000b5ff
Auto Start: true
Whip Active: Inactive
Profile: BT
Standard: BisPlusAuto
Utopia Interface: Level1
Rx Auto Bin Adjust: Disable
Tx Attenuation: Bis_0DB
Detect Noise: Disable
Capability: A2/A2+
Coding Gain: auto
Framer Type: Type3ET
Is that what you need?
P.S. Yes stevie, funnily enough "Tiscali BB Service Outages" was the exact wording - thanks ;)
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The problem there is the Downstream sync is way too low.
On your line, you should be seeing 3680kbps with a local attenuation of 55dB, according to Kitz's Max speed calculator.
The Internet light isn't on because either the login details in the router are not correct.
Switch it off then on again.
Once all the "normal" lights are on, see if the Internet one goes green now, if not then either the outage is still affecting you, or the settings aren't correct within the router.
go to http://192.168.1.1 (http://192.168.1.1)
click Setup which is at the top.
Then click Basic Settings.
Make sure the username is correct and that there is a password entered, if not change them then click Save Changes.
If all was fine, try doing Status > Internet and if you can, copy and paste that, if not see if there is anything relating to the Internet status, e.g Connected, Disconnected etc
Let us know how you get on:D Sorry about all the words, I have been looking at the router manual to find these steps :)
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Switching off and on again doesn't help. It's the only thing I could think to try and have done it many times over the past week!
In "Basic Settings" (mine says "Basic Setup") there is no sign of log in details at all. A screen that looks as though it could be a log in page flashes briefly before showing the "Basic Setup" page, but it's gone before there's any time to read it. All the info that does show on the basic setup page is greyed out as though it can't be altered.
Status > Internet shows this:
PVC Connection: Tiscali - data PPPoA Tiscali - IPTV Tiscali - data IPoEoA
Internet Connection Type: PPPoA
Connect Now
IP Address: 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask: 0.0.0.0
MTU: 1492
Primary DNS server:
Secondary DNS server:
PVC Connection
QoS: UBR
Pcr Rate: 2000
Scr Rate: 0
VCI: 38
VPI: 0
Other than where it says connect now in the above, there is no sign of internet status being connected/disconnected on any of the available tabs or submenus.
Many thanks for everyone's help, it's greatly appreciated.
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Hi SunnyB,
I think JiD is off line at present.
He's right that you seem to have lost your user details and somehow you've got to get to the setup menu within the user interface to restore them.
It's a bit difficult to know exactly what you're doing.
You could try shutting everything down completely, then powering up the Siemens broadband modem and waiting at least 30 secs before re-booting your computer.
Then, with the dial-up modem disconnected, use your browser to do the 192.168 procedure.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi SunnyB,
I have read through the manual and it does say "Basic Setup", i apologise, my mistake. :-[
Do as walter suggested:-
You could try shutting everything down completely, then powering up the Siemens broadband modem and waiting at least 30 secs before re-booting your computer.
Now with the Dial up disconnected, go to http://192.168.1.1/ (http://192.168.1.1/) then click Setup from the top navigation, then Basic Setup.
On that page should be a section, "Internet Setup", within there, should be "username" and "password".
If they aren't there, enter your Tiscali username and password then click "Save Settings".
Let us know how it goes :)
Regards
Jamie
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Thanks again guys.
This is all I see on the Internet Setup page:
Internet Setup
PVC selection
Tiscali - data IPoEoA
Internet Connection Type
RFC 2684 Bridge/IP Connection
Delete this PVC
Description
Encapsulation Method LLC Bridged LLC Routed VcMux Bridged VcMux Routed
VPI (Range 0~255)
VCI (Range 32~16384)
DHCP Mode ON OFF
WAN IP Address . . .
Subnet Mask . . .
Default Gateway
Primary DNS . . .
Secondary DNS . . .
NAT ON OFF
Where you see "..." above, the page actually shows greyed out zeros and there's nothing about log in details at all.
However..................
The problem looks to be something more drastic than the router.
Our broadband contract is up in about 3 weeks, so, in desperation, I've been looking at other ISPs.
When checking what sort of speeds we could expect, the results show that although our exchange is broadband-enabled, we can't get the service via our line even though we've had bb for at least a couple of years now.
Would that suggest that something has suddenly happened to our own line, or maybe that the exchange has recently had an increased demand (from those living closer to it??) or could it all still be down to the outage announced about 10 days ago?
The timing all seems to point to the "BT tunnel" fiasco, but that could just be a coincidence.
(There's no way anyone here can have an answer to this, I don't think, but am just looking for a bit of advice/reassurance that it'll all come out in the wash.........not sure what, really :-\ )
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Hi SunnyB,
Because you see zeros in the WAN (Wide Area Network) address it means the handshake with Tiscali has failed.
This could be because Tiscali have excommunicated you or that the user-name and password have somehow been erased.
You have passed the first check as you state the ADSL light is green. This means the modem is synchronising (i.e. talking) to the exchange equipment.
If the user name has been erased you must find a way of re-entering the data. This is why JiD is asking you to find the page with the username set up on it so you can verify if the data is still there. Your modem user-name should still be visible, although the password might be asterisks. The picture of the screen you need to see is shown on page 16 of the user manual.
ONLY if you feel confident and have the CD available you could reset the modem to factory defaults which is described on page 33 of the user manual (The manual can be downloaded from a link on Kitz's site after selecting your modem from the pull down list):-
Factory Defaults
You can reset the Gigaset SE587 WLAN dsl to the factory settings. You should do this
only if you want to make the device available to others or exchange it through the
dealer. In this case unauthorised persons could use the Internet access data at your
expense.
ì In the Administration menu, select Factory Defaults.
ì Select Reset to factory default settings and click Restart.
A window will appear prompting you to confirm the procedure.
Note:
If the Gigaset SE587 WLAN dsl is not operating correctly, you can reboot it by switching
it off and restarting it. It should then be ready for use again.
Please bear in mind that when the device is fully reset, all configuration settings are
returned to the factory settings. This means that you will have to completely reconfigure
the Gigaset SE587 WLAN dsl.
The fact that you have had broadband working, and still have modem synchronisation, is sufficient proof that you can get a service.
Some estimators are quite pessemistic and some say you already have a service which prevents a new one.
I suggest you should use http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php and enter either your own phone number or that of a neighbour.
Tell us what you find and we will go from there.
Kind regards,
Walter
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Hi
Some estimators are quite pessemistic and some say you already have a service which prevents a new one.
Check: The check identified another service on your line which may prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection. Examples are : Existing adsl connection, DACs, LLU, TPON etc .
The above is reported because I have an ADSL service . So is normal.
If I use a number that I know has not got ADSL then it says Check: No compatability issues
I would guess that if you did NOT see the first one then it would indicate that there was NO adsl connection. :(
Regards Jeff
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The simplest solution to this conundrum is surely:
a) refer to the Tiscali information they provided which gives your broadband logon
b) if you can't find that, phone them (long wait maybe)
The Gigaset is a standard router they provide which is preconfigured apart from the logon.
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I'm responding to each post in turn as I read through the thread.
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Tiscali's IPStream is obviously in a dire postition at the moment. The recent Ilford cable cut took out a couple of their central pipes which meant they didnt have enough 'available sessions' to be able to connect all their customers.
Keeping trying in the hope that you connect when someone else disconnects is about the best chance.
However, what I cant understand atm is how that some other ISPs were also affected yet this issue has now been closed and service fully restored and its only tiscali that still seems to be affected.
Tiscali centrals have always been maxed to capacity (its why they get such slow peak time speeds).. but what happens when you get so many customers and insufficient centrals, BTw start policing the centrals and wont let any more connect and thats when you may see a "BT holding page".
I'm not sure if this issue relates to you or not as youd need to know if you are on their IPStream service.
including the ADSL one - show a nice steady green,
That and the fact that you managed to get some stats from your router showing a connection speed seems to imply that you are connecting to the exchange - but just not onto tiscali's network for some reason or other.
This is normally either down to the following reasons.
~ Incorrect username/password
~ Incorrect router setting (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/router.htm) (The usual one for tiscali is LLC based rather than VC-Mux based)
~ ISP disallowing the session - could be a few things, but under the current circumstances if you are IPStream, then its most likely due to a shortage of tiscali available sessions.
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Although your sync speed is low - much lower than I'd expect and indicates a problem somewhere.... this should not stop you from at least being able to get some sort of connection.
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OOps Im reading and responding to the thread as I go down here.
Jid has already picked up on the internet settings.
>> Encapsulation Method LLC Bridged LLC Routed VcMux Bridged VcMux Routed
Make sure this is set as VCMux - as mentioned above Tiscali MSANs wont accept LLC where as BT ones will.
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>>> he results show that although our exchange is broadband-enabled,
What does the adsl checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) say about your line - also what LLU ISPs are available to you (these will be shown on the right hand side)
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Thank you very much for explaining all that, Walter, it does make things a whole lot clearer.
I looked at page 16 of the manual and what I see on my screen doesn't look quite like that. There is no log in box at all. And to be honest, I don't feel at all confident about changing any of the factory settings either.
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Hi Jeff,
Thanks for that info. I do see this:
Check: The check identified another service on your line which may prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection. Examples are : Existing adsl connection, DACs, LLU, TPON etc .
(and you'll see why a little further down the page)
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Hi HPSauce,
The simplest solution to this conundrum is surely:
a) refer to the Tiscali information they provided which gives your broadband logon
b) if you can't find that, phone them (long wait maybe)
a) there was no documentation whatever from Tiscali, other than a welcome letter showing my log in details - but the option to enter them now just isn't visible anywhere
b) I've phoned the helpline twice every day since last Thursday and am heartily sick of hearing the guy drone on about the outage and then being put on hold, only to be either cut off or having to hang up and go do something more important
Thanks for the suggestions though.
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Hi Kitz,
Many thanks for your reply.
It looks as though our problem, at least, lies somewhere within the router itself and/or the settings, etc.
I am now able to get a broadband connection with the Belkin (the router we had before Tiscali sent the Siemens), although it wouldn't connect when I tried it a week ago at the point when we lost the broadband completely after a few days of intermitent service (using the Siemens).
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To everyone who has offered help,
A very big thank you :thumbs:
It's nice to know there are such helpful folk about.
Best wishes,
Kit.
(yup, that's my name - I'm not pinching Kitz's id!)
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What does the adsl checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) say about your line - also what LLU ISPs are available to you (these will be shown on the right hand side)
Hi again Kitz,
The main issue is apparently resolved - hooray - so not sure if this will help with anything but this is what the line checker shows:
Exchange Information
Distance:- Direct: 4.94 km
(appx)* By Road: 6.44 km
Status
ADSL enabled : February 9, 2005
DSL Max enabled: March 31, 2006
SDSL enabled : Not Enabled
21CN due : (PSTN) No Info
21CN WBC (Broadband) RFS date 31.03.11
Broadband Access† Market 1
BT Line Speed Estimation
Fixed ADSL: 256 kbps (0.3 Mb)
DSL Max : 250 kbps (0.3 Mb)
21CN WBC : 250 kbps (0.3 Mb)
RAG Test Results
Fixed: 1Mbps and 2Mbps not possible
radsl: Line has over 75dB loss, ADSL unlikely, but will be tested by an engineer on-site
MAX: ADSL Max is available
TPON: No info in database
Check: The check identified another service on your line which may prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection. Examples are : Existing adsl connection, DACs, LLU, TPON etc
The only LLU shown as available is OnLincolnshire
(Those speeds might look laughably slow to anyone reading this, but pages load a whole lot faster than we've been putting up with using dialup!)
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a welcome letter showing my log in details - but the option to enter them now just isn't visible anywhere
If you do a full reset of the router it should "boot up" into a configuration wizard where you put those in.
Unless it's preconfigured with a generic logon that should just work anyway.
Nothing to lose by trying - you don't have to be connected to broadband to do it either, just a PC. ;)
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Hi,
Nice to hear you have got it working.
It seems that the Tiscali router is definitely at fault somewhere, and is most likely related to login settings, but yours seems to be different to the one mentioned in the manual :-\
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I am now able to get a broadband connection with the Belkin (the router we had before Tiscali sent the Siemens), although it wouldn't connect when I tried it a week ago at the point when we lost the broadband completely after a few days of intermitent service (using the Siemens).
I'm pretty sure this is more down to the Ilford break when tiscali lost some of their centrals - since that time they haven't had sufficient sessions (available connections) to cope with all their customers.
Each central pipe can in theory hold many thousands of customers. The more customers that are crammed on each pipe, then the slower speeds get as they are all sharing the same amount of available bandwidth.
Although the Centrals are 'owned by tiscali', BT Wholesale still provides the backhaul down the UK and they 'police the centrals' by only allow a maximum of 30,000 connections to each of the ISPs 622Mb central. Once the 30,000 limit has been reached BTw say "no more connections" on this central and connection to the ISP just wont occur.
[adsl platform]
Think about it 30,000 customer sharing a 622Mb pipe is guaranting each customer just 21kbps if they were all to use their connection at once. Its pretty well known that Tiscali's centrals are crammed to near capacity anyhow and its why their users see such slow speeds.
I think you 'fell lucky' when you tried to connect again with the Belkin and 'hopped on' as someone else 'hopped off' taking their place.
My advice to you is dont reboot your router or you may loose your place.
The fact that tiscali have had so many problems over the loss of just 2 centrals only goes to highlight how tight their capacity is. Other ISPs may have seen some slower throughput speeds but coped ok and werent policed by BTw.
If the loss of just 2 centrals also had such dire consequences.. it also implies that the statement on their forums about the shortage of bandwidth on their IPStream connections being "looked into" is just not happening and they arent provisioning additional bandwidth.
I think Tiscali know that Im aware of this, and know that I could so easily point the finger at the correct source of their problems.. and its possibly why they delete my posts on their forums despite me not having broken any of their rules.
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I think you 'fell lucky' when you tried to connect again with the Belkin and 'hopped on' as someone else 'hopped off' taking their place.
My advice to you is dont reboot your router or you may loose your place.
You could well be right about striking lucky.
This evening, we lost the connection several times - each time after leaving the computer idle for a little while - and turned the Belkin off and on again each time.
Sometimes it would subsequently connect straightaway, other times not and we'd have to try again later.
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Check the belkin settings and see if theres a 'keep alive' setting somewhere so that your router doesnt disconnect after x amount of time being idle.
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Hi
If there is No keep alive option then would something like routerstats keep it busy at least while the computer was on .
Regards Jeff
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Thanks again for the advice.
I haven't changed anything whatsoever, but since yesterday morning we have had a completely uninterupted service.
Which sort of seems to speak for itself, doesn't it?
It was nice meeting you all and I know where to come in future!
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Youre welcome :)
Hope the connection holds :)