Kitz Forum
Computers & Hardware => Networking => Topic started by: mikk on March 29, 2007, 10:28:06 AM
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I'm no expert so feel free to correct me!
I'm a computer geek guys, plain and simple! Im doin network technologies at Uni and am always wantin faster downloads. I got my line upgraded from 1 meg to 'Up to 8 meg' and have been waiting on this annoying speed test, the test finally settled down at about 2900kbs which i wasnt completely satisfied with to be honest. I'd been reading about interference noise reducing connection speed and length of line obviously effecting signal power and there for speed. I set off researching on how i could improve my connection. I already had a few ideas.
-- Move Router (i use 2 in my home network) to the main tel. line (used to be on and extention line of the main socket)
-- Cut out some excess line that wasnt needed.
I looked it all up and it seemed pretty straight forward, so i took a screenie of line stats from my home hub (which isnt the best of routers but it'll do!)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy183%2Fmikk2k2%2FNet.jpg&hash=c176a43719a461eb08c351c2eb99e01c310b8634)
The third line down shows that the upload speed is at 448kbs (this didnt change)
The third line also shows that my download speed was at 2900kbs.
Usefull Info on profiles:
ATM Line sync speed
IP Data Rate
from 288Kbps 0.25Mbps
from 576Kbps 0.5Mbps
from 1152Kbps 1Mbps
from 1728Kbps 1.5Mbps
from 2272Kbps 2Mbps
from 2848Kbps 2.5Mbps
from 3424Kbps 3Mbps
from 4000Kbps 3.5Mbps
from 4544Kbps 4Mbps
from 5120Kbps 4.5Mbps
from 5696Kbps 5Mbps
from 6240Kbps 5.5Mbps
from 6816Kbps 6Mbps
From 7392Kbps 6.5Mbps
from 7968Kbps 7Mbps
from 8128Kbps 7.15Mbps
For me the above data shows that i'd only get 2.5 meg because my line syncs at 2900. I figured id try change that!
What i did:
1.Dismatled my network and started from scratch. (2 routers and some network cable)
2. Opened up the main socket and disconnected all extension sockets (3 in total, 1 to the study (which was reconnected later to hold the phone)2, up stairs into my room which was where my primary router was situated to start with (when you think about it, kinda common sense not to have it 20 odd feet away from where the signal comes into the house!) 3, into the front room)
3. connected the routers together (Master socket >> BT home Hub >>Network cable>> Second router (Now in my room) )then connected the second phone line (also into the master socket) into the study for the phones and ran the same line stats test, this is what i got...
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy183%2Fmikk2k2%2FNetNextDay.jpg&hash=de091ff50209eb682a936a9ee695a361f09d1da8)
Third line again, upload speed hadn't changed...but i didnt expect it to tbh..
Download speed now at about 5,400kbs (increasing it by 2500kbs (AKA 2.5meg))
This is due to better line conditions, there is less interference with the frequiencies traveling down the line because i removed all that extra wiring (about 50 odd feet i'd say). Now i just need to wait for my bRAS profile to update itself and i'll be downloading at double the speed for no extra cost =D
Just thought i'd share it with you all but this probably wont apply to people outside the UK because of the much better infrastructure you guys have =(
This would only really work for you if--
-- You have quite an old house (wiring pre 2000ish)
-- You use telephone lines for your internet
-- You have lots telephone sockets
-- Your on Broadband
-- You dont have the speed you think you should have i.e The Speed advertised is 10 meg and you only get 3 even though your only 1.5km away from the exchange (sadly not in my case im 3.5 km away from my exchange)
Anyway I'm happy, if your going to attempt this there are alot of guides you should read before trying it. It's illegal if you start messing with the internal wiring of your master socket (because BT own those) so if you do start messing with wires be carefull! Dont say i didnt warn you!.
If any1 is thinking of a bit of home optimisation be carefull, DONT DO IT if you dont know what your doing, i take no responsibility if you mess up!!
Figured you guys would be especially interested in this!
Kind Regards
Mikk
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Just so you guys know...I've moved back from my home hub to my old voyager 2100 due to download speed problems on certain applications :angel:
the 2100 gives weaker stats and drops every so often so i might look into purchasing a better router....
Mikk
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Hi mikk welcome to the forums.
Thank you for your detailed guide of how you improved your speeds.
Very interesting article and will hopefully be of use to others :)
The master socket is where your signal is always going to be optimum so if you are getting slower speeds than anticipated this is where you should try locate your router.
One of the other things you can also do is install an adsl filtered NTE5 master faceplate. These negate the need for adsl splitters by filtering the adsl and telephone signals at point of entry to your home, helping many people improve their adsl signal.
Theres a test socket behind the master socket from which you can test your router in to see if you get a stronger signal from there - if so then an NTE5 faceplate will certainly help.
Theres a bit more info and a couple of other tricks you can try on my low SNR (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm) page.
Couple of minor points just for clarification more than anything else really -
448 kbps is the maximum upstream speed for adsl IPStream home accounts in the UK so you wont be able get any more than that.
Same theories re adsl apply in many countries outside the UK, so its not just UK users that will benefit from carrying out these home tweaks.
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Just so you guys know...I've moved back from my home hub to my old voyager 2100 due to download speed problems on certain applications
the 2100 gives weaker stats and drops every so often so i might look into purchasing a better router....
Interesting that the HH is giving you the better signal, since I have heard many people having problems with them.
The Voyager 2100 uses a broadcom chipset (similar to the one in the Netgear DG834GT), and normally they provide fairly stable stats. I know someone that uses a Voyager 2110 (same as the 2100) which stablised his line when a couple of others wouldnt. One of the nice things about the Voyager 2100/2110 is that theres also a version of DMT that works with it so you can manually alter your Target SNR.
Normally I recommend the Netgear for stability, but if you are in to tweaking your connection yourself using DMT then look at some of the speedtouch routers.
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[Post edited to remove DG834G v3 ]
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The Netgear DG834 (It's the one sky supply) can also be tweaked fairly easily via a simple web page;
http://dg834gt.mognuts.com
I've used it myself but as always be careful playing with tools if you don't understand 'em. It'll likely void your warranty if you fudge your router using this tool.
Rgds
Havelock
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Hey Kitz, thanks for the replys!
Just to let you know, i have the router plugged into the master socket well through a microfilter (that also has an extension coming out of it for phones in another room) With the HH i was getting a stable 4,800kbs adsl line & ip profile of 4000. but as i said weak download speeds on limewire etc, even with ports forwarded i was only getting 10kbs no matter how many seeds there were- which was annoying. Thats why i've moved to the voyager, when i changed the routers over BT thought it was a line crash and slapped me on 256k ( should be back to 4meg by tomorrow...hopefully) but the drops that the 2100 has been having doesnt fill me with confidence. Speaking of switching routers... do you know a way to swap routers and not causing a (from BT's point of view) a router or line crash?
PS. When playing games on the 360 and PC i get kicked off due to loss of key packets (on the PC) and because the "game is no longer available" on the 360(pretty much the same thing i think tbh) Any ideas?- This is when using the HH.
PPS. I'd not been able to access the HH for some reason. Well the HH web interface anyway. I used telnet and got in.... but im not too good on telnet so i left it alone.
Kind regards
Mikk
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Thats why i've moved to the voyager, when i changed the routers over BT thought it was a line crash and slapped me on 256k ( should be back to 4meg by tomorrow...hopefully) but the drops that the 2100 has been having doesnt fill me with confidence. Speaking of switching routers... do you know a way to swap routers and not causing a (from BT's point of view) a router or line crash?
I've never heard of that happening before. I've switched routers umpteen times with no problems. I think it's more likely that when you changed you had a low-speed sync for some reason, and this resulted in a low IP profile.
Eric
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Hey Roseway,
yeah i guess that makes sense! Just wish there was a way around it instead of having very slow internet for 24 - 48 hourse :'(
Kind regards
Mikk
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Thats why i've moved to the voyager, when i changed the routers over BT thought it was a line crash and slapped me on 256k ( should be back to 4meg by tomorrow...hopefully) but the drops that the 2100 has been having doesnt fill me with confidence. Speaking of switching routers... do you know a way to swap routers and not causing a (from BT's point of view) a router or line crash?
You want to power off the first router and wait a little while before powering up the other. If you simply whip out the DSL lead and plug it in the other one the speed will drop.
The HH played up the other day and I put in a Voyager 2500 for a bit. I unplugged at the mains and left it for about 5 minutes before turning on the Voyager 2500. When I powered it up it synced at a better rate and didn't drop the IP profile.
Again, when I put the Home Hub back, did the same thing.
I remember in the past when I first went max and was trying to push up the sync speed I actually shot myself in the foot by being to hasty with it and dropping from around 1200K to 400K which of course set the IP profile to 256K for a day or two.
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Yes, it is a bit irritating. Blip logic is supposed to stop it happening if the low speed sync is only a once-in-a-fortnight (or less) event, but it's still quite easy to get caught, and it takes three days to regain the previous higher speed.
Eric
[Edit] That was a reply to number 7 of course. Soms nipped in there while I was posting it. :)
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-- Move Router (i use 2 in my home network) to the main tel. line (used to be on and extention line of the main socket)
I know it's not my field, (so apologies beforehand if I am incorrect) but I thought you could only have one (1) router on a system?
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You can only have one ADSL Router plugged in. It's possible he's talking about having an ADSL Router connected to his phoneline and a switch connected into that.
My ADSL connection actually works with my Netgear Router plugged in and my housemates HomeHub plugged in at the same time, but upstream sync gets restricted to 128Kbps and the downstream speeds seem to half (although nothing happens to downstream sync) which I found quite interesting.
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replys!!
just an update on my 2100:
Line mode G.dmt Line state Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:02:30:00
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 1
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 5248 Kbps 448 Kbps
Noise Margin 8.6 dB 11.0 dB
Line Attenuation 43.0 dB 27.0 dB
Output Power 19.5 dBm 12.5 dBm
Its synced at a higher rate than the HH speed wise as the screen shot up there was taken pre phone addition. Are those stats good? I think my SNR could be better dont you?!
The line has stabalised much faster than expected, so im pretty happy with that, just the reconnections that im worried about (connection drops and then connects randomly) as you can see from the line it happened 2 and a half hours ago but that might have been the bRAS updating i suppose..
As Jameseh said, i did have my 2100 linked to my TP-Link router and used it as a switch/ WAP connected by normal network cable...
soms: i did the exact same thing, changed routers willy nilly and slapped a 500kbs limit on my profile! sorted itself out within a week when i realised what i'd done. Thanks v. much for the 'waiting' tip on changing routers i'll remember it for any future moves.
Kind Regards
Mikk
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Hey guys,
just updated the firmware on my voyager 2100 to 2.18 (was 2.14)
now getting these stats:
Line Mode G.dmt Line State Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:00:44:37
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 1
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 1216 448
Noise Margin 11.0 dB 15.0 dB
Line Attenuation 43.0 dB 26.5 dB
Output Power 12.4 dBm 17.1 dBm
What is Line Count?
My margin has gone from 9 to 13 ish whilst typing this..
I think my speed will increase over night (hopefully)
my power outputs have changed by quite a bit.....opinions??
My other problem:
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 1216 448
Noise Margin 14.2 dB 15.0 dB
Line Attenuation 43.0 dB 26.5 dB
Output Power 12.4 dBm 17.1 dBm
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) 39 15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word) 12 16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) 4 8
D (interleaver depth) 16 4
Super Frames 173025 173023
Super Frame Errors 12325 15
RS Words 2941443 1470695
RS Correctable Errors 867947 13693
RS Uncorrectable Errors 106125 0
HEC Errors 10626 0
OCD Errors 292 1
LCD Errors 0 1
ES Errors 0 0
Is it just me or are there WAY too many errors in there??
I think this may be being caused by my wireless phones (talked about in the first post) which are far from great--could anybody rec. any decent wireless phones that don’t kick out so many damn errors?
Ps note the SNR change again compared to the first stats in this post!
Kind Regards
Mikk (King of massively annoying and amazingly long posts)
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Line just went down and up a few times (Last up date for atleast 2 hours i promise!(got athletics training))
Line Mode G.dmt Line State Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:00:07:33
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 5
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 1568 448
Noise Margin 14.3 dB 17.0 dB
Line Attenuation 43.0 dB 26.5 dB
Output Power 12.3 dBm 17.6 dBm
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) 50 15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word) 16 16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) 4 8
D (interleaver depth) 16 4
Super Frames 26464 26462
Super Frame Errors 1910 2
RS Words 449893 224927
RS Correctable Errors 55461 3658
RS Uncorrectable Errors 18834 0
HEC Errors 1774 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
ES Errors 0 0
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Hi mikk
This is just a quickie before I go out - but there is a direct correlation between your SNR Margin and the speed you sync at.
The DLM will always try and sync you at the highest speed it can whilst still allowing a specific Margin of SNR. Default target SNR is 6dB, but it is something that the DLM can change and will increase if you have too many drop outs.
The fact that you now have synced with a Noise Margin of 15dB is indicative that the DLM has increased your Target SNR to 15dB... therefore your sync speeds will not be as high. :/
There is a lot of errors there - a heck of a lot considering your uptime and is indicative that theres a lot of noise going on somewhere on your line and your router is having to re-request data packets :( Somethings not happy somewhere.
Line up count is the number of times your router has connected to the exchange without at full reboot.
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Unless you have a line fault or a large local source of noise, the upgrade seems to have knackered your connection speed. I'm guessing that 'RS Correctable Errors' are what are normally called 'FEC errors' and a high level of these is normal when your connection has interleaving enabled.
If the line rate stays as low as this I think I would probably reinstate the previous firmware.
Eric
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Hey guys,
having massive problems now:
Line Mode G.dmt Line State Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:00:05:04
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 16
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 512 448
Noise Margin 18.6 dB 13.0 dB
Line Attenuation 43.0 dB 26.5 dB
Output Power 12.3 dBm 15.6 dBm
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) 17 15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word) 8 16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) 4 8
D (interleaver depth) 16 4
Super Frames 17642 17640
Super Frame Errors 237 2
RS Words 299924 149940
RS Correctable Errors 29589 2034
RS Uncorrectable Errors 596 0
HEC Errors 168 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
ES Errors 0 0
Not good, this is rushed because i may loose connection v shortly... trying to find the previous software (2.14) if anybody knows where it is avaiable let me know. hard to do anything on this connection!! Line up: 16 :S:S:S
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Would it be a good or bad i dead to turn off the router?? BTW i think the problem with regards errors is with the phone (bt synergy 3505) that we use. I didnt have any errors when these were not connected!
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Have you checked whether it's the phones being on the line, or if it's the radio signal which is causing you the problems?
If you unplug them from the phoneline, and then use the intercom feature toring the other handset (most DECT phones can do this) do you still get tons of errors? If you don't then you can probably just use a higher quality microfilter (such as the XF-1e), or fit a Filtered faceplate.
Havelock
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Its not the phones :( hope its the micro filter, going to try change it now!
will let you know what happens!
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well not the microfilter either:
Line Mode G.dmt Line State Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:00:12:10
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 1
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 4448 448
Noise Margin 8.3 dB 21.0 dB
Line Attenuation 42.5 dB 26.5 dB
Output Power 12.3 dBm 19.3 dBm
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) 140 15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word) 10 16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) 1 8
D (interleaver depth) 64 4
Super Frames 42931 42929
Super Frame Errors 0 0
RS Words 2919345 364896
RS Correctable Errors 159 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
ES Errors 0 0
I need to get another copy of that firmware (2.14) I deleted the backup because i thought it had worked fine (terrible shout!!)
With the last firmware i was getting 5.4 mbs but this one only 4.4 mbs
The figures above show: telephone unplugged, wired computer disconnected from router, and xbox 360 disconnected from router. (I'm accessing from upstairs wirelessly (spelling?)
Hoping for a change over night,
Kind Regards
Mikk
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I don't think thats likely to be the firmware;
TBH, it's likely the 16 line retrains earlier has caused your line to Sync back up at a lower speed. You'll also notice the uncorrectable errors seem to have dropped significantly with your other devices unplugged. Or maybe someone listens to the radio at 9pm on an old hifi in your neigbourhood. Ya never know :(
I'd try waiting till (later) this morning. Check your sync speed, then power off your router for 15 minutes (so DLM doesn't think theres a sync problem), boot back up and check your sync speed again.
Rgds
Havelock
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just restarted and synced at 1500kbs, just hope in time i can get back to that 5.4 i had yesterday!
Will keep you in formed!
Kind Regards
Mikk
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Hey guys, been playing around with it this evening: just got a reset and synced at 5.1meg, few errors and everything was already plugged in!
Line Mode G.dmt Line State Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:00:03:20
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 1
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 5152 448
Noise Margin 9.3 dB 22.0 dB
Line Attenuation 42.5 dB 26.5 dB
Output Power 12.4 19.4 dBm
K (number of bytes in DMT frame) 162 15
R (number of check bytes in RS code word)12 16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame) 1 8
D (interleaver depth) 64 4
Super Frames 11761 11759
Super Frame Errors 0 0
RS Words 799775 99951
RS Correctable Errors 191 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 0 0
OCD Errors 0 0
LCD Errors 0 0
ES Errors 0 0
Going to quit messing now, just hope certain torrent applications work :P
Kind Regards
Mikk
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Just ran a ADSL BER test (noidea what it is)
and got:
Tested Time 20
Total Transferred Bits 93319296
Total Error Bits 0
Wheras yesterday i had loads of error bits... no idea why!
Btw i left my router off for about an hour then let it sync....looks like it did the job!
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Dropped again,
Line Mode G.dmt Line State Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:00:49:32
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 2
Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 4768 448
Noise Margin 7.4 dB 21.0 dB
Line Attenuation 42.5 dB 26.5 dB
Output Power 12.3 dBm 19.3 dBm
Looks like im stuck with 4 meg, just hope that limewire works!
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You can expect it to change around a bit as noise levels vary at different times of the day. You might be able to squeeze a bit more out of your connection by using the tips at http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm but the practical difference between 4 Mbps and 4.5 Mbps is probably not worth losing any sleep over.
Eric
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Yeah, good shout Eric, Thanks for you tips and wisdom!
Now i just need to wait for my bRAS to update:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 4768 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 94 kbps
Doh!
Kind Regards
Mikk
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just a query:
my quick set up says i've been online 2 hourse, but the broadband line says 12 hours:
Line Mode G.dmt Line State Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:12:04:04
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 2
wheras:
Connection Status Refresh
Online Time 2 hours 55 mins 3 secs
Data Transmitted 12410160 bytes
Data Received 26156784 bytes
Any ideas why thats happened and will it affect the bRAS update??
Mikk
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'Line Up Time' is the length of time you've been synced with the exchange, and 'Online Time' is the time you've been connected to your ISP. So, although you haven't lost sync for 12 hours, something caused your PPP connection to be dropped about 3 hours ago. This can happen from time to time, and isn't anything to be concerned about unless it happens frequently.
None of this will affect your bRAS profile. You don't have to be in sync continuously for three days for the profile to update; all that's necessary is that any resyncs continue to be at a similar connection speed. To be specific, if you don't sync at less than 4544 kbps for three days, then your profile should go up to 4000.
Eric
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Great, cheers Eric, this PPP connection seems to drop every 2-3 hours?? But its always been like that with this router (2100) might buy another router and see what happens!
Mikk
PS bRAS updated to 250kbs....should be fixed up by monday i guess!
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I don't think I would be really happy about my PPP session dropping every 2-3 hours. But it's not 'damaging', it wont affect your profile or your download speeds, just an occasional pause while the connection is being reestablished. If you can try a different router it would certainly be worth doing.
Eric
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Line dropped again yesterday >:( >:( >:(, synced at 5500, but doesnt that mean i have to wait another 3 days?!
Still at 250kbs as of this morning. It should have been updating to 4000 tonight (3days from when it synced last) we shall see what happens!
Mikk
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No, it doesn't mean that. So long as any resyncs are at not less than 4544 kbps, your profile should go up to 4000 soon after the three day period is up. You don't have to stay in sync continuously for three days.
Eric
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Still no bRAS change, should have changed by now!
wish there was a time on there that showed you when it was to update next?!
Not a happy chicken!! >:( >:(
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Looks like there was a fault at my local exchange 6 hours before my profile was due to update...looks like i've got to wait till Good Friday for it to sort itself out!!
Mikk
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>> looks like i've got to wait till Good Friday for it to sort itself out!!
:'(
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Happy days!!
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 4000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 4608 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3646 kbps
Not amazing but much better than 250kbs!!
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That sounds like progress. :)
Eric
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That it does, just hope bit torrent works! then a higher sync rate...fingers crossed!
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Looking much better.
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The Voyager 2100 uses a broadcom chipset (similar to the one in the Netgear DG834G v3 and DG834GT), and normally they provide fairly stable stats.
Doesn't the DG 834G v3 only use a Broadcom chipset for its wireless only? Ethernet is something else. The v4 with be Broadcom throughout.
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Yep you're right.
That is an old post - back in March all documentation was saying that the v3 had a broadcom chipset.
It was only fairly recently, (during the discussions with Zen re the AR7 chipset) that the fact that it has Broadcom and AR7 has been disclosed.
Theres a thread knocking about on here and on TBB where this was discussed and I actually asked some Zen users to telnet into the router shell to find out what was actually inside. It was shortly after this that Azzaka from Zen disclosed that v3 used the Broadcom only for wireless.. and then the v3 was also added to the AR7 list. It was also at this point that it was confirmed that v4 had the broadcom.
PS
Ive just edited the original post and removed "DG834 v3" to avoid future confusion. - so thanks for pointing it out.