Kitz Forum
Chat => Chit Chat => Topic started by: chrissie on February 05, 2009, 11:40:53 AM
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Well the beeb have done it again, fish of one and fowl of t'other. If they sack Carol for making a remark that seemingly wasn't done offensivel and in "private", then they should have sacked Ross and Chris Moyles.... both let off the hook for offensive speech and in public too!
Do you think there is a hidden agenda with the BBC.... Thatcher name probably still irks some and a chance to show that with this came along?
It does annoy me where it seems that if someone abuses a white person not a lot of made of it whereas when it's someone from an ethnic background, all hell is let loose. Everything should be fair... treat one as you do the other, then no one will aggrieved, but then I am talking about this country >:(
Don't know what others think but this is a storm in a teacup, as for the word golliwog it's a child's toy, my daughter had one and loved it to bits when she was young....I can't believe what has gone on in this country to turn people against people....and it is still going on as with the case in point.
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Totally agree Chrissie,once the 'race card' is played its another ball game.............pathetic.
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As stated on the "Today program" on 4 this morn, although in reference to a completely different matter
"Those who seek to be offended will be"
I don't belive in the link with her Mother but I do get the impression the BBC is running scared after the Ross/Brand incident and is going out of its way to demonstrate it has it's house in order. The D.E.C. appeal being another recent exsample
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I think this has been blown out of all proportions, years ago gollis were simply a toy and there was nothing racist about it. You can bet that if the gollis had been white, no matter what the connotations were, nothing would be being said today.
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I think this has been blown out of all proportions, years ago gollis were simply a toy and there was nothing racist about it. You can bet that if the gollis had been white, no matter what the connotations were, nothing would be being said today.
Oh yes and isn't that just the truth! :(
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I expect the BBC are going to be scared of their own shadow soon. I think everyone knows my feeling about Wossy, so I won't go over that ::).
I'm not sure the "racist" element is the real reason for this,(the person to whom they are all assuming it was aimed at didn't hear it, so therefore couldn't have been offended) more the "jealousy" element because to me the saddest part of this, and I totally agree that it has been blown out of all proportion, is that someone bothered/took great delight in 'telling tales' .... I would expect that everyone in that Green Room, who were party to the remark are in the same sort of business which makes them colleagues and I'm appalled that one/several colleague couldn't simply make their feelings known to Carol Thatcher at the time of the "private conversation" without having to contact the media. I'm afraid that Big Brother is alive and well and installed in the BBC and that is a frightening thought !
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Apparently in private off air conversation the subject of the tennis player Andy Murray came up, She made a comment about his hair looking like a gollywog. That was it, nothing else.
Reminds me of when Bernie Grant piped up about the term Blackboard. It's a board and it's black, never had and conertaion in my mind between the Noun and a persons race.
Hence my quoting : "Those who seek to be offended will be"
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This is so typical of the BBC these days, They should have sacked the fool Ross and yet use the race card again for Carol.
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My (adult) niece rather admired a little golly keyring that my OH had so I bought one for her when I found a shop that sold them.
She worked at Morrisons and had the keyring in her pocket. It must have been visible from there because a customer complained to management about it and she was asked not to have it on her person again whilst working.
There was no racial undertones at all - she just liked it as she would like a teddy bear or something similar.
Wonder if there would have been any comments if it had been a little white doll (remember the Cabbage Patch doll craze?)
Some people should get a life (unless there is something I am missing here?)!
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Now Clarkson has put his foot in it again, but like Ross, I expect all he'll get is a slap on the wrist.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7873624.stm
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I don't usually agree with anything Clarkson says, but he did get two bits right out of three on this occasion. :lol:
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I believe what he got right was scottish and idiot ?? do I get a prize :lol: the first one might be right he could have problems we don't know about ::)
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It's a well known fact that GB has sight only in one eye, so 3/3 in my opinion, even if it wasn't very nice to use personal insults, it was truthful
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Jeremy Clarkson went up in my estimation when he slapped Piers Morgan, he has ascended even further now. His apology was apt, "In the heat of the moment I made a remark about the Prime Minister's personal appearance for which, upon reflection, I apologise." ...... I'm delighted he didn't retract the rest ! >:D
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Being Scottish, I feel compelled to point out...
any suggestion that equates Scottishness with incompetence is totally, well, a bit of a laugh. Most Scots I know are quite happy to have a chuckle at their fellow countrymen at their own expense, especially when applied to such shining examples as the one in question.
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I'm a one eyed Scottish idiot..............does that mean I get to be Prime Minister ? :D
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I'll vote for that :)
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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I'll vote for that :)
:o :no: ...........disenfranchise that man immediately !
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:lol: :lol:
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I personally think that Clarkson's comment was unfair to idiots.
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:lol:
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I personally think that Clarkson's comment was unfair to idiots.
:lol: very true Floidy
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:lol:
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As stated on the news quiz
there was widespread discust at refering to him as one eyed, later uproar at calling him a scot. Yet so far no one has complained about the term idiot
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Wasn't NQ a hoot this week :D ... you can still listen to it on BBci ...well worth a listen for anyone who missed it.
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Your quite right there, sometimes this sason it was ok but this week they were all on a roll. I'll have to listen to that again.
Funny enough a target for lot of jibes from the News Quiz is on at the moment Quote unquote. One of the contestants has just gone "Let me see was it XXX who said that ? "No it was XXX for whom you wrote a biography." :lol: oops
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Clarkson made a racist comment,simple as that,but so did Prince Harry or was it the other english sponger.The point is that all 3 rely on money from the people they are insulting.As for Thatcher,well what would one expect from an upper class english twit.Ive also heard that children are not allowed to sing baa baa black sheep in schools anymore.
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Clarkson made a racist comment,simple as that,but so did Prince Harry or was it the other english sponger.The point is that all 3 rely on money from the people they are insulting.As for Thatcher,well what would one expect from an upper class english twit.Ive also heard that children are not allowed to sing baa baa black sheep in schools anymore.
Saying someone is Scottish is racist then? Would it be the same if it was an English person? I don't think the comment was racist, actually J C spoke the truth, Incapability Brown IS Scottish, does only have one eye apparently and as for Brown being an idiot... well that's debatable, as Floidy said... that's unfair to idiots! As for Thatcher.... doesn't matter if in your opinion she is "an upper class twit" or not, it wasn't said in malice as far as is reported and why shouldn't anyone express their opinions anyway... just as you have done?
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You dont think it was racist,then why did he mention the word scottish.Is scotland not a race of people,or just a little offshoot of england.I suggest you go up to any coloured person and call them a "golliwog" and see if they take offence.You can then say you didnt mean any malice and see where that gets you.
You should also bear in mind that miss thatchers comment could have 50% of the english population up in arms ;D ;D ;D
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Just to put this back in proportion, the conversation was in private, not broadcast on TV. She didn't go up to him and call him a golliwog, she referred to Tsonga looking like a golliwog, in a conversation in the green room.
Plenty of presenters direct some very offensive insults at celebrities and non-celebrities alike every single day, broadcast to millions of people on TV and national radio, and yet this is acceptable, even encouraged. Why? What makes it less offensive?
I had a hand-me-down golliwog toy when I was a youngster. I never even associated it with a black person until somebody pointed it out to me when the whole racist thing started to kick off over it. I still couldn't see the connection really, it just looked like any other character toy to me. It had a black face because... well I never even questioned why it had a black face!!
I'm sure when most people think of the term, they think of an image of the rag doll. Just like when you say 'teddy bear', you don't think of an ugly great grizzly bear who wants you for breakfast, you think of your favourite fluffy toy you possibly cuddled up to in bed when you were young.
The point is, this is obviously (IMHO) simply an excuse they were looking for to get rid of Carol Thatcher from the show more than anything, as I am confident that much worse is, has been, and will be said in future in television studio green rooms.
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You dont think it was racist,then why did he mention the word scottish.Is scotland not a race of people,or just a little offshoot of england.I suggest you go up to any coloured person and call them a "golliwog" and see if they take offence.You can then say you didnt mean any malice and see where that gets you.
You should also bear in mind that miss thatchers comment could have 50% of the english population up in arms ;D ;D ;D
I wouldn't call anyone a golliwog and neither did she (read Mr Chris' post above)....it would be like saying "he reminds me of a teddy bear...." or "she reminds me of a barbie doll" etc etc etc! It wasn't said as a racist remark unlike if I was to go up to a black person and CALL them a golliwog - get things into perspective please! As for saying someone is scottish or english or welsh or australian.....I don't think it's racist no.....I am an english gittess ...... I don't think I'm being racist.... just saying where I'm from and that I can be a "gittess" ok? Get things into perspective and give a little, forgive a little and perhaps people like you won't take offence so readily!
@ Mr Chris - all my sentiments exactly, well said and what a pity there aren't more level headed people around not ready to JUMP at something being said that isn't meant to hurt or be unpolitically correct!! This bluddy country is beyond help now, made that way by the do gooders and those who seek to give our country over to foreigners. Sorry but it's the way I feel and the sooner we revert back to old values and treat ALL people with respect the better, and to be able to laugh at ourselves in whatever form that takes will make this country a happier place to live.
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Hello chrissie,let me put MY slant on things.Your precious country has about 50% black/asian/immigrants OK.They are welcome into England as far as im concerned and dont blame them,blame YOUR government currently and the British Imperial brigade for that.The alf garnett and bernard manning days are gone now so get used to it please.
Could she have said "that coloured" tennis player instead,would Clarkson describe David Cameron as "that english idiot".I leave it up to you since you appear to know what they mean
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Your precious country has about 50% black/asian/immigrants OK.They are welcome into England as far as im concerned
Me too, as I'm sure chrissie is also.
As far as I can see, nobody's complaining that there are people of different ethnic origins living here. The way I interpreted chrissie's comment about giving the country over to foreigners, was that ethnic minorities can often have MORE rights than others, which is wrong.
You also seem to have conveniently missed where she said "the sooner we revert back to old values and treat ALL people with respect the better". Notice there was no mention of colour, race, gender, or anything else here - simply 'all people'. It appears that you are perhaps putting your own slant on what's been written, rather than simply reading the words verbatim.
I know it's a contentious topic, but let's try not to introduce even more contentious secondary issues if we can help it.
The main issue as far as I can see is that Thatcher said what she did in private, and Jo Brand apparently found it offensive (oh the irony!!!!). Now why she, or whoever else that was listening, decided to take it upon themselves to report Carol Thatcher for saying this, I don't know. The only thing I can think is that somebody wanted to get her in trouble, and they have obviously succeeded in their goal.
My personal point of view is why does referring to someone as a 'golliwog' cause someone to lose their job, when if he had been skinny and she had referred to him as a 'beanstalk', I'm absolutely sure nothing at all would have been said (certainly we wouldn't know about it). It appears that she was not using the term in a derogatory manner. I would even go as far as to say that the original meaning of golliwog has been all but forgotten, except by those who like to pick up on anything that they could, in another context, make into a "racist comment".
I know that the term golliwog is considered offensive to black people because of the origins of the toy doll, but I expect there are plenty of other words in the english language that have very dubious origins, and are now considered socially acceptable, or at least certainly wouldn't cause you to lose your job if you said it to a couple of work colleagues.
I'm not saying it was smart or right to say what she did, just that we simply shouldn't have ever heard anything about it. It wasn't apparently said in a derogatory manner, it wasn't directed to his face, and it wasn't broadcast. Sole grounds for dismissal? Surely not.
People use descriptive terms to describe other people all the time, doesn't mean they're racist. I'm not racist, I treat everyone the same and judge on character, not appearance. I have friends who are white, black, asian, mixed-ethniticity, straight, gay etc. If I don't like somebody, it's because they have done or said something to offend me, and I think more people should be like that instead of trying to cause problems where there aren't any by acting under the guise of being dutybound to protect a certain group of people.
As for Clarkson on Gordon Brown... the guy happens to be Scottish. So whilst what he said was unprofessional and downright rude, given that he KNEW he was speaking in public, can you honestly tell me that the Scots never use the word "English" as a descriptive term when slagging somebody off who is English?
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I agree TBH I think this has all been blown totally out of proportion.
But then again as a child I had a gollywog, I had a white rag doll.. I had a black babydoll and a white babydoll. I never ever saw anything different about colour of skin, to me it was like just like different colour of hair.
I grew up in a country were "Abo"* kids went to my school. One of the most racist remarks Ive ever heard has to have come from a friend I used to know who was black (afro Caribbean) directed at Asians. I find it ironic that Jo Brand find its offensive - personally I find many of the comments she makes hardly whiter than white. :/
... and a reminder to all - feel free to discuss the incident or thoughts - but please dont let this get personal. I dont want to have to lock the thread.
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*Abo in the shortened sense for Aborigine in the same affectionate way I'd use Oz.
Nothing more than that. Neither me or my friends black or white ever saw anything wrong with it - in fact they were proud of their heritage.
Gawd isnt it awful that we so have to watch every single word we use these days.
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personally I find many of the comments she makes hardly whiter than white. :/
I see what you did there ;D
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Ill give 2 occurences which may explain what i meant earlier,maybe im an idiot or others are naive
1.Four blokes get out of a taxi here,one says come on lads lets go into to this strip club.One of the others says hang on,im away to get a packet of ciggies from the pa*i shop.He was promptly arrested,convicted in court and lost his job as a bank clerk
2.A taxi driver here was at a family function and there was an argument and he called one of his relatives an engl*sh b*stard.He promptly lost his taxi drivers licence for i think 3 months.
I am of the opinion that if you make a derogatory comment about someone an preempt that with their nationality,then that is a racist comment.The same applies with clour and creed.
Id better go as im away round for a packet of ciggies :lol:
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I think enough has been said on the subject. People have different views, and I don't believe that anyone here is a racist. Let's just agree to disagree without fighting over it.
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I think enough has been said on the subject. People have different views, and I don't believe that anyone here is a racist. Let's just agree to disagree without fighting over it.
I'll second that.
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Hi
Well its all so much hot air / I am an Englismen living in Wales for the past many years ,on odd ocasions I have bee referred to as an English *****. during some argument. A few years back after retiring form work I was contracting down in Gloucester with BE . When I was working there I suddenly became a welsh grey haired **** (hair has turned grey ). No doubt If I went to Australia I would be a "POM". :lol:
Remember this motto" honi soit qui mal y pense" or "EVIL TO HE WHO EVIL THINKS"
By the way Jo Brand was one of 3 people who on QI thought nothing of insulting Margaret Thatcher
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/4560371/BBC-faces-fresh-criticism-over-offensive-remarks-about-Baroness-Thatcher.html
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.The alf garnett and bernard manning days are gone now so get used to it please
I personally don't think you should be telling people what they should get used to,at least not on here any how.
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One of the best statements on this racism issue was said to me by a West Indian friend. "You may call me black. You may call me a b*stard. But don't call me a black b*stard."
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very wise
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.The alf garnett and bernard manning days are gone now so get used to it please
I personally don't think you should be telling people what they should get used to,at least not on here any how.
I did ask politely though LOL
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The main thing for me about the subjects of racism or prejudice is that I have a small selection of people who I have lost. this is something that pains me intensely. So by what logic should I push away any other human for no reason than a obscure fear of a preconcieved abjecture. by that I would loose imensely so much more.
Please feel free to quote me on that
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Must say that things can really be taken out of context can't they. I'm sorry Robin that you have only chosen to quote only certain things that suit you, rather than take my post as a whole, being selective like that makes it difficult to comment on what you have to say because you are putting a different slant on what I've said but luckily enough for me, others have actually seen what I mean.
I still say that from what has been reported about Ms Thatchers comments they were not racist and I think you know that too. Mr Chris's post on this page hit the nail on the head and is what I go along with wholeheartedly. Yes of course we all have our own opinions and thoughts on everything, life would be dull if we all thought the same, but for me, when someone is taking things out of context, and is actually making more out of the situation than was there in the first place, I'm afraid I feel I must comment.
I like fairness in everything and by ANYONE saying Ms Thatcher was being racist they are doing her an injustice. She was silly to say anything in this day and age, but because it was nothing more than I have mentioned above....then it's difficult to accept what you are saying. I would dearly love everyone to get along in this world but it's not possible....but please don't take things wrongly and put meanings into things that aren't there, it's so unfair to do that. This matter shouldn't have been a sacking offence and I feel the BBC were wrong to do what they've done. I just wish people would see things for what they are and not read more into them, offence can be taken at anything can't it, but it depends on how we all want to pursue the words/deeds. A little less "jumping" and a little more understanding and forgiveness would go a helluva long way in this world.
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1.Four blokes get out of a taxi here,one says come on lads lets go into to this strip club.One of the others says hang on,im away to get a packet of ciggies from the pa*i shop.He was promptly arrested,convicted in court and lost his job as a bank clerk
Why is the word P#ki taken as being racist,its only a shortening of the the word Pakistani.
You aren't classed as being racist if you say,Scouser,Brummie,Jock,Paddy,Taffy,Yorkie etc,so why that word. :shrug2:
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1.Four blokes get out of a taxi here,one says come on lads lets go into to this strip club.One of the others says hang on,im away to get a packet of ciggies from the pa*i shop.He was promptly arrested,convicted in court and lost his job as a bank clerk
Why is the word P#ki taken as being racist,its only a shortening of the the word Pakistani.
You aren't classed as being racist if you say,Scouser,Brummie,Jock,Paddy,Taffy,Yorkie etc,so why that word. :shrug2:
I could tell you Uncy but daren't, I'd be too controversial if I said what I really thought about things being loaded against certain peoples here. :-X
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1.Four blokes get out of a taxi here,one says come on lads lets go into to this strip club.One of the others says hang on,im away to get a packet of ciggies from the pa*i shop.He was promptly arrested,convicted in court and lost his job as a bank clerk
Why is the word P#ki taken as being racist,its only a shortening of the the word Pakistani.
You aren't classed as being racist if you say,Scouser,Brummie,Jock,Paddy,Taffy,Yorkie etc,so why that word. :shrug2:
I could tell you Uncy but daren't, I'd be too controversial if I said what I really thought about things being loaded against certain peoples here. :-X
Chrissie,my examples werent selective,they were mirrors of the topics you started,which led to criminal and financial penalties for the people that said them.You keep saying that carol thatcher didnt mean any offence,are you her confidante?.
Uncle ub,your fellow country people,neighbours and local shop proprietors do not like being called P*kis,for whatever reason i dont know,so its now a criminal offence to use that term.Its also a reciprocal term about a scottish person describing an english person.
I look forward to your responses eagerly...............
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Uncle ub,your fellow country people,neighbours and local shop proprietors do not like being called P*kis,for whatever reason i dont know,so its now a criminal offence to use that term.Its also a reciprocal term about a scottish person describing an english person.
I look forward to your responses eagerly...............
Well I can't reply properly to your comments at the risk of being banned from this forum.
All I will say is this,
Why is it a criminal offence ? Just because someone doesn't like something that's no reason to make it a criminal offence.
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1.Four blokes get out of a taxi here,one says come on lads lets go into to this strip club.One of the others says hang on,im away to get a packet of ciggies from the pa*i shop.He was promptly arrested,convicted in court and lost his job as a bank clerk
Why is the word P#ki taken as being racist,its only a shortening of the the word Pakistani.
You aren't classed as being racist if you say,Scouser,Brummie,Jock,Paddy,Taffy,Yorkie etc,so why that word. :shrug2:
I could tell you Uncy but daren't, I'd be too controversial if I said what I really thought about things being loaded against certain peoples here. :-X
Chrissie,my examples werent selective,they were mirrors of the topics you started,which led to criminal and financial penalties for the people that said them.You keep saying that carol thatcher didnt mean any offence,are you her confidante?.
Uncle ub,your fellow country people,neighbours and local shop proprietors do not like being called P*kis,for whatever reason i dont know,so its now a criminal offence to use that term.Its also a reciprocal term about a scottish person describing an english person.
I look forward to your responses eagerly...............
Robin I think you are being rather contentious here regarding what I've said on the subject of Ms Thatcher. I am going by (as with what all of us can go by), what was reported and as with every other news item of any subject, we have to take it on face value, depending on source of course. I personally, along with many others, don't think she was being offensive... I've said it could have been her saying, "he reminded me of a teddy bear...." or any other cuddly toy of which gollywogs always were in my day!! She didn't (apparently) face the guy she was commenting on and call his a gollywog! It does look like some people go searching for "offensive material", uttered by whomsoever, in the hope of stirring and whipping up a public outcry.
I'm not saying anymore on this thread as all I can see is you trying to aggravate and put words into my mouth that I have no intention of saying. You know my opinion on the matter and I will not change them. I suggest you go onto a debate forum where your views may be well received and you can argue to your hearts content. We all have our opinions but none of us enjoy others making more of them than is written.
I wish you well in your quest to whatever it is you set out to achieve, I bow out of this one as I have a lot of views that wouldn't fit in with yours and I don't wish to see this thread locked.
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I think this thread is getting a little OTT and think it has run its course.IMO everyone has got their opioions/points of view across so lets call it a draw and lock this thread .
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I think this thread is getting a little OTT and think it has run its course.IMO everyone has got their opioions/points of view across so lets call it a draw and lock this thread .
Here,Here Ub,its turning into a knitting circle LOL
p.s I thought I was posting on Kitz forum,not Chrissies.
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p.s I thought I was posting on Kitz forum,not Chrissies.
Theres no need for that,everyone is entitled to put their point of view across.
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This subject has run its course. Locked.
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... and a reminder to all - feel free to discuss the incident or thoughts - but please dont let this get personal. I dont want to have to lock the thread.
Bit disapointed that despite my warning yesterday and several attempts by some people to get the topic back on track.. it still got personal.
After just having seen the way this has further developed, and if eric hadnt already locked it than I certainly would have.
>> I thought I was posting on Kitz forum,
It is - I pay the hosting costs therefore I get to make the rules ;)
Please guys, express your opinions etc... but I dont want this forum to become one of those where someone has to think twice about what they say just in case it becomes misinterpreted by others and/or someone starts nitpicking.
Whilst everyone will not always agree and see things in the way, however I do expect people to have a little bit of courtesy and respect if someone else has a different view. Debate is good - getting personal isnt.
I'm way to busy right now and have better things to do than to go round chasing up on whats going on in this section.. so all I ask is please have some respect and keep things civil. :)