Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: Jon21 on October 30, 2008, 01:30:32 PM
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Hi everyone,
I'm currently with Tiscali on their up to 8mb MAX package. I've been having some slight issues with peak time slow down although it doesn't make things unusable, just a bit slow. Anyway, I've been posting on their support forums and they've come back saying that there is congestion on my exchange pipe and that they have put an order in for increased bandwith. This will take up to a week to complete. I've got a couple of questions:
1. What is an exchange pipe?
2. Does the upgrade just affect myself or everyone that is connected to the exchange?
Apologies if this is in the wrong section.
Thanks.
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Hi and welcome to the Fourm:D,
I think this is your thread on the forum:-
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=155204
If you scroll down to the bottom of this page, it tells you what it is:-
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/equip.htm
They are known as Virtual Paths, basically, on your VP or Pipe, there are too many users and not enough bandwidth.
Obviously, there maybe a heavy user on that Pipe using all the bandwidth during peak.
You should find that after the week, as they have said on the forums, it should appear to come back to normal, if not they will probably have to apply another upgrade.
Hope this helps:D
Jamie
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Thanks for the welcome Jamie. Yes that is my thread on their support forums. The point about there being too many users and not enough bandwidth makes sense. Its currently half term around here this week and it has been slower than usual even on off peak. Hopefully it will be better once the upgrade has gone through.
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Thanks for the welcome Jamie. Yes that is my thread on their support forums. The point about there being too many users and not enough bandwidth makes sense. Its currently half term around here this week and it has been slower than usual even on off peak. Hopefully it will be better once the upgrade has gone through.
I suppose it is good it has shown up then really...
Keep us informed on how it goes :)
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there is congestion on my exchange pipe and that they have put an order in for increased bandwith.
That sounds like youre most likely on datastream if they are having to put an order in to increase the capacity on the VP.
Theres more info IPStream-v-DataStream (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsltype.htm)
>> 2. Does the upgrade just affect myself or everyone that is connected to the exchange?
It affects all Tiscali users connected to your exchange.
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Just to illustrate the problem I'm having, these are the stats from the Netgear router I'm using
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 20.0 db 9.0 db
Noise Margin 12.0 db 24.0 db
These are the sort of speeds I'm getting at peak times:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F349630854.png&hash=0ff142a68e886116f340fdd8a19a126fb3d2715d) (http://www.speedtest.net)
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Just to illustrate the problem I'm having, these are the stats from the Netgear router I'm using .../snip/
They haven't fixed it yet then ::)
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surplus quotation removed by admin.
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Have they given an actual ETA for the new VP?
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Not as such, they hope there will be an improvement by the end of the week.
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Fingers crossed for you then that the upgrade goes through soon :)
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I see on Jon's thread on the Tiscali forums that the upgrade went through today, but another has been requested :no:
Fingers crossed for you :)
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An upgrade was completed but clearly was not enough. Another is currently in progress.
hmm.. not being funny but something doesnt sit right with that. But if Ive read his latest speedtest correctly, the speeds are worse not better.
If there had been an upgrade completed - even if it wasnt enough - you would have at least expected some improvement. Not worse ???.
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Its nice to see that my thread on the Tiscali forums is still being followed. I've got to agree with Kitz, there hasn't been any improvement in peak time speeds as yet which I would of expected. Off peak speeds are fine as can be seen by my latest speedtest results on the Tiscali thread. I suppose the only good thing is that there still trying to sort the problem, probably because I keep pestering them ;D. Anyway I've asked MK Paul on the thread if its just purely due to congestion, I think I know the answer but I'm just interested in what he thinks.
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It would be interesting to see if you are on IPStream/Datastream or LLU
If you put your phone no and post code into the adsl checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) and on the right hand side it should say if Tiscali LLU has a presence at your exchange.
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No, there's no Tiscali LLU present at the exchange. According to that adsl checker the exchange has the BT code of WNNP (Newport, Shropshire). So I presume that means I'm on either IPStream or Datastream. Is there anyway of finding out which?
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Yeah... there is a way.. look at the bottom of this page (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsltype.htm) and see if you can log in or not using the details provided.
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Ok I've tried that but it just leads to "Internet explorer cannot display the webpage" after putting those details in and trying to go to any website. So I guess I'm on Datastream.
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Ive just checked and tiscali is reporting that Newport (01952) is not LLU but is datastream enabled.
You can check for certain if you are on their datastream product by seeing if you can log in to the Tiscali test login (http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/tiscali_llu.htm).
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Yep, I can login to that test so that confirms that I'm on Datastream.
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btw I was looking at something else BTw related earlier today, and got a bit side tracked by some info I found about datastream as it briefly mentioned leadtimes.
BTw's leadtimes vary from product to product, but things like IPStream centrals take 90 working days is not unknown.. anyhow the document I was looking at actually mentioned datastream VPs . It quoted 5 working days (1 week) for a datastream port connection/migration (which again is already known)..
Anyhow the doc I looked at actually provided a lot of information about datastream, some of it i found quite interesting but others would find boring so I''l cut to the basics... Datastream VPs are built by BTw at the request of the ISP upon order - theres a maximum size to a datastream VP and judging from that - I hardly think tiscali will be doing an upgrade* but will have to order a new/additional VP.. the lead time of which isnt actually stated in the terms of x days.. but looking at a response from another ISP it would appear it tends to be 4-6 weeks.
Now I'm putting 2+2 together here from the info that is available.. but unless tiscali were requesting a VP upgrade of only *2Mb, then it will have to be a new VP... the lead time of which is going to be a tad longer than 1 week.
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Update: Still not sorted :doh:
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F353635251.png&hash=f35799656ced141c193ad3a69829c74961170a4c) (http://www.speedtest.net)
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:'(
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I see on Jon's post that MK_Paul has confirmed the upgrade should go through by Friday.
Please post back on Friday if you are still experiencing this as the upgrade should be completed by then.
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Those speeds are worse.. I hate to say this, but theres absolutely no evidence to show that an upgrade was performed last week. Any upgrade should have at least shown some sort of improvement, not deterioration. My thoughts are that the previous estimated date was just a stall for time. :/
Lets hope that it goes through this week Jon :fingers:
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Well today is the day that the upgrade has supposed to have gone through by, here's a speedtest for 6:40pm
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F356009932.png&hash=2d8f4a4998106bad3531d26b8d333719b866486b) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Its a tiny bit quicker. Just waiting for confirmation to see if this upgrade has been done or not. Anyone want to place a bet? :D
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Hi
Just be aware that sometimes Maidenhead gets slow . I have found that at times I get substantially better results from London, Dublin or the Faroe Island . These figures can only be used as a guide .
Regards
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(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F356025726.png&hash=4822aa8411eda9f6d3ff1c8d0190ea9150f7926e) (http://www.speedtest.net)
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F356030579.png&hash=c903aeaba7fcf7f96759666c02523efc8dea5855) (http://www.speedtest.net)
2 tests just a few minutes apart.
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Its Friday evening which historically (no idea about currently, although LINX graphs seem to show this is still the case) has always been one of the quieter nights of the week. I'd be inclined to wait until Sunday night before drawing any conclusions - Sunday evening until 10pm or so is just about the peak of peak time....
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Its Friday evening which historically (no idea about currently, although LINX graphs seem to show this is still the case) has always been one of the quieter nights of the week. I'd be inclined to wait until Sunday night before drawing any conclusions - Sunday evening until 10pm or so is just about the peak of peak time....
Jon is synced at the full 8128kbps so surely he would be seeing more throughput, even at this time?
When I was syncing at 8128kbps I was seeing around 7meg?
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Both servers (london and Maidenhead) appear to be working here fine and giving similarish downstream results. - aside from london isnt showing my full upstream - but they both appear to be coping with 19Mbps download.
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I think I can safely say that no upgrade has been done.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F357589768.png&hash=ec40a742ba4d17c20d597db0c617a63e9dfc8ce7) (http://www.speedtest.net)
>:(
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Hi
Just trying to copy me :lol:. That is normal for tiscali ,its these dXXXed users that insist on using the broadband connections they have paid for ???
Jeff
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Hmm :'(
Sorry to hear they still haven't fixed it. Hopefully they will realise that there is some mad downloader connected to your exchange and sort the congestion out....
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>> I think I can safely say that no upgrade has been done
Obviously not :'(
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Ouch that is nasty.
Hope its not too long now.
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Ive just had a quick scan through your thread and since your 'upgrade', not once have you received anywhere near the full line potential.
For the past month they've been giving you several excuses. Upgrade not gone through, not configured, needs 10 days, be sorted in a week, be sorted in another week etc. Yet there's been absolutely no progress what so ever.
A line thats consistently syncing at 8128 should at some point get the near max throughput which is somewhere around 7Mb or just slightly less. Although youve done some lunchtimish speedtests it would be interesting to see an early morning result at about 7am.
Looking at the speedtests that you have provided* show very poor performance and complete failure by Tiscali to meet their side of the contract. :'(
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Ha, things get better and better. I've been getting speeds since late last night similar to this
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F357970744.png&hash=424766eca7734fb236474370e31bb92f9a9b94ee) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Thought it was odd as even though it was consistant it was like being back on the 2mb profile. Asked on the tiscali thread, was told to run the bt speedtester which I've done:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1872 kbps
So I am actually on a 2mb ip profile again ??? Question is why? I did have a brief disconnect yesterday for about 10mins (didn't do it myself, apparently the DNS server went down briefly) Is 10mins long enough for the IP Profile to get reset? All lights on the router were still on at the time apart from the PPP link. Strange thing is, I've never been able to get an IP profile from the BT speedtester before, it would just show the throughput and thats it.
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Ummmm
You were previously on Datastream. Your exchange is datastream enabled, and the fact that you could previously log into the tiscali test proves that you were.
You are only meant to be able to access the BTw performance test to get your IPprofile if you are on IPStream.
2000 is the default profile for a brand new account which has just gone over to IPStream MaxDSL.
>> I did have a brief disconnect yesterday for about 10mins
Which is about the amount of time it could take for a line to be moved from datastream to ipstream linecard (well more like 15-20 mins depends how easy it was for the engineer to re-jumper your line).
Not happy that youve not yet picked up a proper IP profile, which sometimes happens on very good lines. It may be worth trying a resync.
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lol - Ive just seen your thread at the other place...
In which you mention you got an email yesterday saying your regrade to MaxDSL was sucessful.
I have no idea why someone from Tiscali cant just tell you the truth what is really happening. :no:
They obviously never did bother to do anything about the Datastream.. hoping it would improve, but because you continued complaining they would appear to have now put you on IPStream.
The mail you got yesterday will have been an automated one for when you got moved over to IPStream Maxdsl...
....and sorry but I really dont believe for one minute that CS dont have access to that info. Someone will have put the request in for you to move over to IPStream on around the 10/11th of Nov.
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Well I just did a reboot of the router through the web interface and I'm still getting similar results to above. I presume rebooting would cause a resync?
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Its possible that the above above may just have been a PPP reconnect if you clicked the reconnect button through the web interface. This just disconnects and reconnects at the ISP level. However different routers do different things so I cant be sure.
It needs a full resync for the DLM to be able to collect the sync status on your line. Does your router have a green DSL light? If you did a full resync it will take a few minutes and that DSL light will go off for a short while then start flashing when its trying to establish a new sync profile.
I dont want you to reboot your router too often just now though - because it looks like you will be going through a brand new training period.
I would be interested to see your linestats (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php), just to see how good the line is.
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Router is a Netgear DG834PN. When I rebooted, all the lights went out, after a while the DSL light did start flashing then goes solid green, followed by the wireless light and then the PPP link light.
Line stats:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 20.0 db 9.0 db
Noise Margin 12.1 db 24.0 db
Did you need anymore? Like CRC's, FEC's etc. I can't actually find them in the statistics page of the web interface so I'm not sure if it can interpret that. Perhaps a 3rd party software can?
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>>> When I rebooted, all the lights went out, after a while the DSL light did start flashing then goes solid green,
Thats fine just wanted to make sure :)
The stats are good. The info I needed to see if all there - thanks :)
I wanted to see them for my own curiousity, as I have an unproven theory as to why some lines get a stuck IPprofile, and Im just 'gathering evidence' really.
Now that youve done a resync, the theory should be that an IPprofile jump from 2000 to 7150 should happen pretty quick, but its just a waiting game now Im afraid :/
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If the IP profile did get stuck (which hopefully it won't) is the only way to get it unstuck by resyncing? I notice on this page http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm that it says to get in contact with your ISP to get BTw to clear it but ermmm..... yeah, I think you know where I'm going with this.
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? I notice on this page http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm that it says to get in contact with your ISP to get BTw to clear it but ermmm..... yeah, I think you know where I'm going with this.
As Kitz said, DLM has now probably seen you are sycning faster than 2meg which your IP Profile is at, so as she says, it is a waiting game until your IP Profile catches up with the Sync speed.
Very odd that you have gone from IP Stream to DataStream? ??? Don't what to put your hopes down but you will have probably seen on the Tiscali forums, and with jeffbb's situation here, that Tiscali IP Stream is highly congested :'(
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ok i'll 'come clean', the stuck IPprofile thing, I'm looking for a pattern, and whilst you are on a shortish line it isnt very short, although your SNRM is just over 12dB, so I honestly dont know with yours.
The resync should force the DLM to pick up your new profile.. In theory a jump like that should happen within a day.. but it could take up to 3 days... or 5 days for smaller increases. So fingers crossed that the DLM has picked up the latest sync, and it will occur within the next few days. As I said previously, I dont really want you to be rebooting too often during your training period, but it wont harm if you switch your router off tonight and switch it back on to resync tomorrow morning.
>> Very odd that you have gone from IP Stream to DataStream?
Not at all.. Tiscali moved a lot of users over to DataStream to alleviate their IPStream Centrals which were very much short of capacity. Its kinda like shuffling everyone around, but DataStream will show congestion long before IPStream, because contention works like that :/
If someone on one of them complains long enough, they move them over to the other to see if it pacifies them.
Historically Tiscali are very good at saying they are doing something, or trying something, or doing this or doing that, rather than getting down to the root of the problem.
Theyve been like that since the very first days of adsl.. told you how this exchange had big problems within about a week of going live. There were lots of us from all many different ISPs complaining and some ISPs were far more pro-active than others. Eventually it got fixed and we were all happy bunnies - aside from the lady on Tiscali. :'(
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The IP Profile has increased finally. PPP session did drop earlier, briefly, before the IP Profile change although I was still connected, would that be due to DLM adjusting things? Hopefully it'll be ok during peak times now.
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6697 kbps
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F358624115.png&hash=27101de81651eb1478ba176f42fd7f83dbd09d0d) (http://www.speedtest.net)
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Most probably DLM giving the profile a kick...
Nice to see that your speeds are back to normal!
You have a very good line...
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Much better :)
>> PPP session did drop earlier, briefly, before the IP Profile change although I was still connected,
Possibly. The IPprofile is set at the bRAS and it just alters the maximum throughput so doesnt affect the sync. The drop in PPP is normally your ISP.. so it depends on how your ISP configures their accounts. If they do their own profiling based on the bRAS, then it often needs a reconnection to pick up the new profile. With some ISPs you may have to do a reconnection before you pick it up... so it looks like tiscali perhaps do this automatically by forcing a new PPP session. Dont know for sure, as I'm guessing - but thats certainly what it looks like.
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Bah, knew it was too good to be true
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedtest.net%2Fresult%2F358714143.png&hash=73406465ad5696410787925658ce790de4e3ede4) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Time to jump ship me thinks.
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Must be congestion related methinks...
I can see that MK_Paul has replied on Jon's thread on the Tiscali Forums saying that he has raised an IP Profiling issue with bt?
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I can see that MK_Paul has replied on Jon's thread on the Tiscali Forums saying that he has raised an IP Profiling issue with bt?
Theyre a bit behind the times.
MK Paul posted that at 4.16pm... but it had already corrected itself by 2.38pm according to that speedtest. - Possibly as a result of the resync last night.
Looks like their IPStream Centrals are in no better state than the IPStream though (as jeff already knows) :/
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True too true :'(
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I feel sorry for Jon after reading the latest response from Tiscali, I think it's disgusting:-
Peak time congestion. There is not a great deal we can do about this.
Well they put Jon on their IP Stream network which is congested enough as it is.
Correct me if I am wrong Kitz or likewise, but I think they put Jon on IP Stream as it would be cheaper than paying for the extra bandwidth on his DataStream Pipe :no: :thumbdown: :mad:
How are your speeds at peak times at the moment Jon as from your thread they are really bad... :'(
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Still the same as they were before, they go down to about 500kb/s from about 5pm till 12am. As soon as it goes off peak they gradually go back up to 6800-6900kb/s. Looking around for another ISP that doesn't have caps, traffic management, silly peak times etc. Think that's going to be hard to find at a reasonable price.
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I do tent to plug these guys a lot because we resell their stuff but Eclipse are brilliant.
They put connections through IPstream, datastream (tiscali) and also through LLU with tiscali.
They have no traffic management or caps on their line, the only thing they have is download limits - but then somethings' gotta give, you can tell the difference because their old unlimited products are horrible! The new ones are brilliant.
Sorry but I just find them a really good ISP and you can talk to someone ENGLISH as well.
[Mod note: This is a little bit close to advertising, so in the interests of balance I should point people towards the Kitz site ISP ratings page. (http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/ISP_ratings.php) ]
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I may be wrong, but I'm sure Eclipse still have the ellacoyas in place. Granted throttling on the new accounts is at a much lower level than the previous Evo accounts which got a poor reputation for some very slow speeds, and things do seem much improved with the new accounts.
Tiscali wholesale LLU also seems to be ok.. not sure about if youre one of the unluckies who gets put on Tiscali datastream though. :/
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If the OP is currently having problems with Tiscali retail datastream, I certainly wouldnt like to recommend a product that uses the same technology, because the chances are high that he would perhaps end up on the same VP where he was having problems before.
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I feel sorry for Jon after reading the latest response from Tiscali, I think it's disgusting:-
Peak time congestion. There is not a great deal we can do about this.
Well they put Jon on their IP Stream network which is congested enough as it is.
Correct me if I am wrong Kitz or likewise, but I think they put Jon on IP Stream as it would be cheaper than paying for the extra bandwidth on his DataStream Pipe :no: :thumbdown: :mad:
How are your speeds at peak times at the moment Jon as from your thread they are really bad... :'(
Ive just seen that post
Peak time congestion. There is not a great deal we can do about this.
Makes me want to respond to the thread saying 'Yes there is - Tiscali need to buy some more bandwidth'.
But I'd be so wasting my breath, since tiscali's Centrals have always been crammed to full capacity. :/
jid - yes putting him on IPStream is very much cheaper than adding more datastream capacity.. although datastream capacity is cheaper than IPStream capacity.
Moving him to IPStream in effect has just moved him away from one area with a problem and put in in another area which is no better, and wont have really cost them anything aside from a small migration fee. The term 'Jumping out of the frying pan into the fire' springs to mind and is so appropriate. :'(
I feel very sorry for anyone caught in this trap who cant get out due to contracts.. but it is worthwhile chasing the 'unfit for purpose' clause as there are a few who have obtained their MAC by being firm about it.