Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: jid on October 28, 2008, 12:09:59 PM
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Hi All,
I have got hold of my cabling now, and will be wiring it in tomorrow.
I have the old style master socket:-
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n217/jamieidavies/adsl/DSCF1881.jpg
Is it ok for me to add the extra wires into the IDC terminals with the Krone, or am I not allowed to do that, as it has only just come to me ???
Also, how can I get an NTE5 installed? Who do I need to contact to get one?
Many Thanks
Jamie :)
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http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm
(Scroll down to the bottom of the page)
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Looking at that photo...
I see the extension coming out of the back/side of the socket.
I see the adsl filter plugged in to the front. (with the black cable plugged in)
BUT I also see some more cable just hidden out of view... what is that... where is that connected to?
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Looking at that photo...
I see the extension coming out of the back/side of the socket.
I see the adsl filter plugged in to the front. (with the black cable plugged in)
BUT I also see some more cable just hidden out of view... what is that... where is that connected to?
The one under the sill, by the cable out of the side is for an outside light.
And the one under the window is the drop wire coming into the master.
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(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi71.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi121%2Fdavesnaps%2FForum%2520Posts%2FBTMaster.jpg&hash=0f9e992c710f0cc3d031d925ffd8266f559159ac)
Please give details of each cable, numbered 1 to 4, as to where they are connected at EACH end.
The ones into the side of the BT socket, (1 & 2), which terminals are they connected to.
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Ok, I should of thought of doing that ???
1 - Drop wire from outside
2 - (older CAT5e cable leading upstairs to router
3 - Rubbish extension which I believe is causing problems (also for Sky)
4 - Nothing to do with telephone and is for the lantern outside.
Also, black wire is for the phone...
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Does No. 3 go into the BT terminal box?
how can I get an NTE5 installed?
You could phone BT and ask it they would be good enough to come out and change it for free.
You must remember that BT terminal sockets are the property of BT and must not be tampered with.
You 'cannot' change it for a NTE5.
http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/BTsocketNTE5.html
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>>Does No. 3 go into the BT terminal box?
No it goes into that splitter which i am going to be replacing with a CAT5e cable instead.
>>You must remember that BT terminal sockets are the property of BT and must not be tampered with.
You 'cannot' change it for a NTE5.
I understand that.
>>You could phone BT and ask it they would be good enough to come out and change it for free.
Would it matter if I have Tiscali Line Rental, and if not who do I need to ring, would you happen to know the number?
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Its No 3 that I was querying, since I couldnt see where or how it was connected, and what looked strange to me.
As an aside - No 4 the lantern - is it a PIR device? These are very well known to cause problems with adsl.
Also - is it possible for you to remove the filter, undo the 2 screws and take a photo showing the internal wiring of that socket, just so we can have a look and check how its all connected up.
I like to see where inside the box, and also how the extensions are wired up to the reverse of the LJU2 - kinda like this (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/phone/LJU2-1A.jpg) but showing the wiring.
As regards to an NTE-5.. thats what I was saying you needed the bt engineer to do last time he was out at your house. Otherwise I believe the charge for "normalisation" of you master socket to an NTE5 is £25.
The other option is the DIY version which roseway pointed out at the bottom of this (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm) page.
As dave said, you cant actually to a straight swap for an NTE5 unless its done by a BT engineer, they will know if youve done that... because only a BT fitted NTE5 has the official Openreach logo.
However, you can "piggy back" to a new NTE5 located right next to the old LJU2 - see the pic on the above page on how to wire it.
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>> Would it matter if I have Tiscali Line Rental, and if not who do I need to ring, would you happen to know the number?
You'd have to request it through your telecom (phone) provider - in this case Tiscali, who has to arrange normalisation via Openreach. Sorry dont know the number.
>> No it goes into that splitter which i am going to be replacing with a CAT5e cable instead.
Just to confirm - it plugs into the BT doubler next to the black phone cable?
If thats the case then its fine - was just checking.
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Wire 3 is part of the doubler, its one of those cheepo extensions which I believe is messing up the broadband :no:
The lantern isn't a PIR no, and it is hardly never on, but I have checked to see if it does cause problems when on, which it doesn't
I will get a pic of the inside hopefully tomorrow, when I wire up the cabling, which will be going directly into the IDC terminals inside the socket. Otherwise it will be Thursday, i'll keep you posted on the Extension front :)
Mum isn't very happy as I have to rip up all of the carpets :shoot: :angry:
Right, so to get an NTE5, I will have to request it through Tiscali, and its called a normalisation is it?
Dw about the number, the Gadget Shows recent article on Download Caps, has a freephone number for Tiscali so will give it a try maybe this week:D
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Okay thanks..
re the lantern was just checking just in case.
>> Mum isn't very happy as I have to rip up all of the carpets
I Dont blame her :lol:
>> so to get an NTE5, I will have to request it through Tiscali, and its called a normalisation is it?
Yes - it must go through their "phone side" and not the broadband side though.. and yes the correct term is "Master socket normalisation". The going Openreach rate is around £25.. but you need to check with Tiscali how much they will charge you.
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The going Openreach rate is around £25.. but you need to check with Tiscali how much they will charge you.
£25 + VAT.
BUT I believe that's the charge for doing that if they are there anyway. If asked to do it on its own there could well be (huge) callout and time charges too, so don't agree to anything without a firm price quoted up front.
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The going Openreach rate is around £25.. but you need to check with Tiscali how much they will charge you.
£25 + VAT.
BUT I believe that's the charge for doing that if they are there anyway. If asked to do it on its own there could well be (huge) callout and time charges too, so don't agree to anything without a firm price quoted up front.
I was wondering that seemed a bit cheap for Openreach! :lol:
I will ring up perhaps next week and see what Tiscali say.
@Kitz, will try and get those photos today or tomorrow:D
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Right...
I have now wired up my new cabling:D
I had a bit of a job getting the wires into the IDC connection 2 as it wouldn't hold more than two cables >:( I sorted it eventually though:D
I have now got these stats with a 6dB Target (bare in mind uptime is only minutes):-
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n217/jamieidavies/adsl/dmt20081029_1836.png
(the errors are from when the IDC wasn't correctly connected and causing awful crackling on the phone, happened a few times...)
I will have to resync in the morning and see how it performs as around 10am there is loads of noise around and at about 7pm too >:(
I will get hold of a picture from inside tomorrow although the SNR seems to be OK at the moment :-X
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The sync speed and SNR seem fine- still that damn gap though :no:
If youve just taken those this evening then it looks ok - since iirc its normally evenings when your line starts being silly.
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The sync speed and SNR seem fine- still that damn gap though :no:
If youve just taken those this evening then it looks ok - since iirc its normally evenings when your line starts being silly.
Yes, the line being silly, is it possible it is REIN?
I haven't really had a chance to sync in the morning with (hopefully) 8128kbps and then monitor with router stats.
As for the gap, I have connected to the master and it is still there, although it is a lot smaller in the morning. Would it be causing problems then?
On a plus note, the SNR is now always above 6dB, except for the occasional dip down to 5.9dB. It is all looking up...
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(hopefully) 8128kbps
Isn't it interleaved, in which case maybe not?
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(hopefully) 8128kbps
Isn't it interleaved, in which case maybe not?
Well, that is a story of its own!
When I sync up in the mornings (using DMT to adjust SNR) I get the 8128kbps sync and Interleave is only on for upstream ???
Tiscali refused to adjust my SNR Target or switch interleave off, so I have to use DMT now ::)
I will see how it goes in the morning and post some stats.
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I will see how it goes in the morning and post some stats.
:no: :no: :no: :no: :no:
Jamie, we are not interested in your stats. It is like reading War and Peace over and over again.
I don't think anyone else in the UK is having the amount of problems that you appear to have, so have you considered that they are mostly self produced by doing things to your setup that, quite often on these forums, you have been advised NOT to do.
As you seem to be able to get online all day and night, just be satisfied and consider yourself luckier than some who are having problems (and I mean PROBLEMS) with their internet connections and speeds.
Please, please, stop boring everyone with your endless reporting of the actions that you are taking and the neverending flood of stats.
Thanks for a bit of peace and quiet.
dave
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I will see how it goes in the morning and post some stats.
:no: :no: :no: :no: :no:
Jamie, we are not interested in your stats. It is like reading War and Peace over and over again.
I don't think anyone else in the UK is having the amount of problems that you appear to have, so have you considered that they are mostly self produced by doing things to your setup that, quite often on these forums, you have been advised NOT to do.
As you seem to be able to get online all day and night, just be satisfied and consider yourself luckier than some who are having problems (and I mean PROBLEMS) with their internet connections and speeds.
Please, please, stop boring everyone with your endless reporting of the actions that you are taking and the neverending flood of stats.
Thanks for a bit of peace and quiet.
dave
All I seem to get is endless posts regarding the fact that I cannot post stats asking to see if they are OK and that they are what they should be.
I started this thread for advice on the extension wiring and to then post the outcome (in terms of stats!)
Jamie, we are not interested in your stats. It is like reading War and Peace over and over again.
I thought this was a Help & Advice forum, and that is what I am asking, Help and Advice regarding the stats of my line.
[Sorry if I sound ratty, but I had to get the point accross that all I get is constant posts saying don't post anymore stats, when all I want is advice on them!]
[rant over]
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Jamie,
If you go back to the first post in this thread, you were simply asking about wiring up your master socket.
You got plenty of answers to your questions so why do we have to have a minute by minute commentary about you testing it out?
No-one else does this type of reporting.
dave
I started this thread for advice on the extension wiring and to then post the outcome
Well you are 'on line' so the outcome was a sucess. Well done for doing the job correctly.
You don't need stats to show that you are on line and if they differ from before you did the job, all that can blamed is mechanical connections in the wiring that you installed. So the only real advice you could get would be to check all the connections again and ensure that the 'pushins' are tight with a Krone tool.
No more is needed.
dave
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Jamie,
If you go back to the first post in this thread, you were simply asking about wiring up your master socket.
You got plenty of answers to your questions so why do we have to have a minute by minute commentary about you testing it out?
No-one else does this type of reporting.
dave
I understand what you're saying.
Therefore, if I have fixed the issue tomorrow, what should I do, new thread, what?
I like to tell people that the advice they have given has worked :)
As you gave advice on the subject of NTE5, btw, the article on clarity regarding adding an extension NTE5 is worth a thought. :)
No-one else does this type of reporting.
I like to be different (but not awkward :-X)
Jamie
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Well, I'm going to jump in here as a "newbie" who has made a minor comment on this thread....
The subject looks relevant to my interests (hence the comment I posted), but the content is, unfortunately (looking back) pretty tedious.
There are far too many posts in this Forum to follow them all, so you have to judge by the information available, mainly the thread title initially.
So yes, please start a new thread with a more appropriate title. I suspect that I'll ignore it. ;)
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Right, well I need some advice on the cabling inside the Master.
With the cables coming from the drop wire, do they go on the top of the IDC or the bottom?
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Logically I'd probably put the drop wire cores in first, but why would it matter?
Why not get a proper NTE5A and wire that in LEGALLY as the first extension - just a short length with 2 wires connected and you effectively have a proper setup for under £20 and a few minutes work.
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That's good advice. Leave the drop wire alone Jamie!
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That's good advice. Leave the drop wire alone Jamie!
Its not easy when you want to put another extension in though!
I have finished the extensions and it all fixed so...
I really do wish that Engineer I had round had put an NTE5 in :'(
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Its not easy when you want to put another extension in though!
Surely that's the whole point of an NTE5A, separation of your wiring from BT's to make it easier.
Maybe you need to do some more research?
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Its not easy when you want to put another extension in though!
Surely that's the whole point of an NTE5A, separation of your wiring from BT's to make it easier.
Maybe you need to do some more research?
No, what I was trying to say is it is difficult to avoid BTs wiring when you have the old type Master socket.
I know that an NTE5 separates BT from your extensions, you connect the Faceplate to the extensions and the incoming drop wire goes in "behind the scenes" :)
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No, what I was trying to say is it is difficult to avoid BTs wiring when you have the old type Master socket.
Ah, misread. ???
But surely the point is that installing an NTE5A legally you only touch BT's wires once, as opposed to every time you make a change. They're not going to complain. :angel:
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Exensions shouldn't be wired into that old style master socket. With that set up (the old style master socket) there should also be a slave socket too which is where all the extensions are wired. Personally I'd not mess around and get that socket replaced with a new NTE5. As it's technically illegal to be opening up that master socket I'd argue to the line provider that it needs replacing as you cannot put your own wiring in.
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Exensions shouldn't be wired into that old style master socket. With that set up (the old style master socket) there should also be a slave socket too which is where all the extensions are wired. Personally I'd not mess around and get that socket replaced with a new NTE5. As it's technically illegal to be opening up that master socket I'd argue to the line provider that it needs replacing as you cannot put your own wiring in.
Yes, but how are BT going to know I put the wires in recently? Extensions had been hard wired beforehand, the engineer who came said the socket was fine and didn't need replacing!
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"So long and thanks for all the fish"
You know the options. :-X
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What is the point in asking for advice when you don't listen to it .There are guys on here who have told you the correct legal way to go about it, yet you are still not listening. :no:
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What is the point in asking for advice when you don't listen to it .There are guys on here who have told you the correct legal way to go about it, yet you are still not listening. :no:
I can't just magic a BT engineer to my house mind ;)
As I said, I will ring Tiscali some time in the next week.
Thanks for all of your advice guys.
Lock this thread before I get any more stick from anyone please.
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Yes, and I want to make it clear (again) that you will get no support from this forum for illegally meddling with BT's property. Thread locked.