Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: Maturecheese on October 01, 2008, 01:53:37 PM
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Hi all,
As you may have read on this site, recently I had a nightmare of a time trying to get BT to recognise that my line had a problem as a long term stable 1.7mb line had gone dowm to around 1mb. In the end they told me there was nothing else they could do . This was hogwash of course and because of this I dumped bt as the cost wasn't worth the service I was getting and tried TalkTalk. Now I have no problem with the price they charge, its good, but the fair usage policy they are imposing especially in the evening, is making even browsing awkward with three PC's on the LAN. As I'm on a 30 day trial I am probably going to leave them as well.
I am on the Kenfig Hill exchange and only have a choice of Tiscali,TalkTalk,Sky,Orange or Aol as they are the only LLU operators. Obviously there BT as well. What I want is a stable IP profile of 1750kbps back and unlimited usage. price doesn't factor as the main priority. I just want to be able to download files,some P2P, watch TV on BBC Iplayer, a small amount of gaming online and browse the Net. Its not asking for much is it? It just seems that I am always going to be stuck with rubbish broaband no matter who I go with.
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>> Obviously there BT as well.
>> What I want is a stable IP profile of 1750kbps back and unlimited usage.
The BTWholesale IPprofile is applicable to all IP Stream (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsltype.htm) ISPs, such as Zen, Plusnet, Enta, IDNet, etc etc. You will be able to use any of these ISPs
Unlimited usage isnt possible with the IPStream providers, although costs have come down very slightly since I did a report (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsl_cost.htm) a few years back, the cost to the ISP was as near damn it £1 per GB. Any reports you see of "Unlimited" should be treated with caution. Its more likely to mean unlimited time - or unlimited downloads at dial up speeds.
LLU is a different kettle of fish, and although all ISPs have some sort of AUP/FUP the only ones who near damn it are unlimited are Be/O2 and sky max. - See ISP CAPs & FUPs (http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/caps.htm).
>> only have a choice of Tiscali,TalkTalk,Sky,Orange or Aol as they are the only LLU operators.
If you have sky on your exchange then UKOnline are probably there too - worth looking at.
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thanks for the reply. I'm looking at either UKonline as suggested or Zen as I think they have a good reputation.
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Hi, have a look here at what people say about various isp's and how they rate them.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/ISP_ratings.php
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I'm now a little worried about joining UkOnline due to this website I found with mostly negative reviews.
http://blog.broadbandgenie.co.uk/2007/04/13/uk-online-reviews-please
I have my BT phoneline renewal date 17th Oct, three days after I cease with TalkTalk, then I have to choose. I wish I could get Virgin Media cable but alas S Wales (Bridgend Area) is a desert when it comes to ISP's or cable networks.
Edit Upon reading the reviews on this site maybe they are worth a try as Sky/Easynet are a LLU at my Exchange
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hmm - those reports on there do seem a bit dismal. ???
Although Ive never personally used UKO myself..
... I have spoken to their CS in the past in respect of other matters.. and Ive been pretty impressed that their staff knew what they were talking about and I wasnt fobbed off or the staff come over "glassy eyed" because they didnt have a clue what I was asking/telling them.
TBH I almost went with them myself too, but I later found out that Be was on its way - so theres no way I could have passed up the opportunity of getting a 24Mb connection since Ive got a very short line.
Ive seen reports about UKO from customers on various other sites and the general consensus seems to be that their LLU service is good. I think there was a patch when there was a bit of a stink about some of their IPStream lines being throttled at one point, but AFAIK the LLU is fine.
Rizla one of the regs on here who is a seasoned adsler, uses UKO. He's been with many ISPs in the past (his line is one of those that often is troublesome through no fault of his or the ISP), so if he's about maybe he would respond.
>> Sky/Easynet are a LLU at my Exchange
Yes... UKO and Sky use the same Easynet backhaul, but they have different products/pricing and support staff.
IIRC Easynet CS are based somewhere in the UK as the ones Ive spoken to have either been scottish/irish or english.
Just bear in mind though that due to the length of your line that you wont get the higher speed products, and you will most likely have interleaving applied.
IMHO out of the LLU suppliers you have available UKO/Sky are probably the best option.
If you wanted to stay IPStream, then there are several ISPs who have good UK support too.
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Yet again, thanks for the reply and info. It definitely looks like I'll be going with UkOnline as they are LLU and I can't honestly afford Zen (£34.66pm + £47 setup). On my exchange SWKGH they would still be at the mercy of the local BTW or Openreach staff so there doesn.t seem much point.
Is there a way I can find out if BTW have re-routed my line through the new housing estate in my area and if so get them to reverse it? Its just that I seem to remember about 15 months ago an engineer telling me the distance was 3.5k and recently I've been told its 4k,strange. As the crow flies it only 1.7k according to Google Earth.
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>> I can't honestly afford Zen (£34.66pm + £47 setup).
If youre coming from BT to Zen (or any other IPStream) there wouldnt be the setup fee.. you'd just need a MAC key.
Some ISPs may charge a BTw migration fee of around £15 but most dont charge for straight IPStream --> IPStream migration.
>> Is there a way I can find out if BTW have re-routed my line through the new housing estate in my area and if so get them to reverse it?
Not that I know of unless you know a friendly local BT engineer that could check out your line length..
rerouting - not really thats very difficult and depends on the options available.. I think its safe to say that the answer to that one would be no.
>> As the crow flies it only 1.7k according to Google Earth.
Cabling never takes straight line distance.. normally from the exchange to the cab it follows the road, either underground or via telegraph poles.
You could try putting your details into the adsl checker (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adslchecker.php) which gives you an approx road distance.
or you could try reverse engineering using the attenuation figure from your line stats into the maximum speed calculator (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php).
I must stress both of these figures are only a guide based on average figures.
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Using max speed calculator and my stats which vary between 58db and 60db, my line length is 4.2 to 4.34. The trouble is, as I have mentioned in another post, last year an engineer confirmed to me that the cabling is aluminium. taking that into account, I suspect that the line is shorter as the joints in the ally cable will drive up the attenuation(in theory).
Anyway I just wait and see what I get with UkOnline :-\ :)
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>> I suspect that the line is shorter as the joints in the ally cable will drive up the attenuation(in theory).
Very probably :/
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Well I sort of sidestepped UKO tier 1 tech support with my recent issue so I can't comment too much on that side of UKO. For everything else they've been the best (ADSL) ISP I've ever had - and by some margin as well.
LLU is (by and large) fine and from personal experience I can say that UKO have no problem at all with 250GB+ usage each month. I've done that several times in the last year.
IPStream service isn't something I have experience of but as a rule of thumb I would never select IPStream from a (mainly) LLU ISP. The IPStream service is always going to be the "poor relation" when compared with the LLU service.
As an aside I've used Zen before. When they sold an unlimited service the price was justified. Now they don't its not. Apologies to Zen tech staff reading this but my experience of your tech support was pretty poor to say the least, although that was a couple of years in the past.
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Thanks for that rizla - I knew you've used several different ISPs over the years.. plus with you being "an adsl techy" and quite demanding of your connection & you immediately notice if something isnt right... therefore were in a good position to report what you thought of them.
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I go live on 28th with UkOnline who are a partial LLU at my exchange.(SWKGH) I have yet to read the Fup and t&c they sent me today as its all in small print, but from your "ISP Caps and Prices" you give them a good rating(all greens). The wife just uses facebook and I browse,download game files, occasionally download large torrents,and use iplayer a fair bit. As I use around 30 -50 gb a month, maximum, should I be ok with this ISP? Sorry if im going over the same ground.
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There appears to be no problems with the LLU service - Although they do have a FUP, when I last looked there wasnt a defined limit - but it is assumed to be in the region of about 500GB.. so you should be fine.
As mentioned above by Rizla (who Im sure he wont mind me saying is very demanding of his adsl connection and he'd tell you straight if they were rubbish), there's certainly no problem with 250GB.
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You'll be fine using 30-50GB even if you're on IPStream. On LLU you could do ten times that amount and I don't think it'd provoke a reaction.
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cheers fellows. I can look forward to the 28th with only a speed issue the possible fly in the ointment. My figers are crossed ;D
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yw - and good luck :)
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Update! Nearly two weeks in and I must say so far Im impressed. Uk based customer and tech support, control over your connection rate with a free phone call, and (LLU) no BT IPprofile. I would say to anyone in a similar situation to me (3.5 to 4.5k line length), if UkOnline are a LLU in your exchange, give them a try.
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:)
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Over on TBB UKOnline_Dan has posted that FUP letters have been sent to IPStream customers. Reading between the lines it would appear that usage greater than 3GB/day (93GB/month) is considered excessive. This is for IPStream customers only.
The FUP on LLU has never been invoked (apparently).
Linkage - http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ukonline&Number=3496178&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0&fpart=
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Hi
as per previous post linkage :
I wish that Tiscali would do something along those lines .Instead they just wring their hands saying "Its the users fault " that everything slows to a crawl.
Jeff :(
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I wish that Tiscali would do something along those lines
They used to do something.
I recall once, maybe 2 years ago, getting a warning email from them that I was using too much bandwidth in the evening and risked being restricted.
Discovered my younger son had been watching live football online despite having been warned not to. ???
Anyway he stopped and no restriction was applied. ;)
But then, about a year ago, the whole service went pear-shaped and I left after a long battle for compensation (which I won).
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Thanks for the linky Rizla.
No AFAIK the FUP has never been invoked on any UKO LLU customers, although it is and has always been assumed to be around 500GB.
Re the IPStream.. TBH I'm hardly surprised.. theyre owned by the Sky empire, so with Skys IPStream equivalent being 40GB, I suppose it was only a matter of time:/
Interesting discussion going on in that thread - and good point about peak vs off peak.
Not sure about the datastream suggestion though. Afterall it doesnt work for Tiscali.. nor did it work for Bulldog. I think someone missing the point of how datastream works. Which is going to show contention sooner? - a 10MB VP at the exchange (yep that is/was the maximum size of a datastream VP) shared amongst x no of users from that exchange.. or a 622Mbps IPStream Central Pipe shared amongst the same no of users.
Contention does and has always worked like that - the more that share the bandwidth, the more variables, therefore less likely to see congestion. Its why IPStream now uses the 'Supa VPs' and why since they have, its one of the reasons why theres been less BTw IPStream congestion than the old smaller VPs that they used to use. - despite speeds now being <8Mb rather than the previous 2Mbps maximum.
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I'm pretty sure Datastream never had 10GB VPs :lol:
I know you meant 10Mbit VPs but others won't ;)
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Whoops damn typo - yes it is 10Mb :blush:
Bit hard to be GB when the whole DSLAM/MSAN backhaul link is only 155Mb
Thanks for pointing it out rizla - Ive edited it in my post to avoid confusion.