Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTP Rollout => Topic started by: blue166 on June 29, 2022, 01:10:34 PM
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Hi All,
I understand that Fibre Optic Cable can not be sharply bent around corners of a property. But for example running down the side round and over a porch and then down wall and into CSP.
I have seen the term sweeping bend and radius mentioned. It would not bother me if a cable sat slightly off the wall round a bend but I would like to know what they do as standard practice on these runs.
Is it a case that it can bend but just not in tight sharp movements and must have a slack approach to corners?
Many thanks in advance.
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If you go to the Openreach web-site, there is section titled "Guides and Handbooks. (Everything you need to install Openreach equipment at your development.) (https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-projects/fibre-for-developers/guides-and-handbooks)" from which you can download all the information available for developers/builders of new sites.
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Do you want pictures from my install?
I think as long as you do not snap the fibre like a glow stick, most bends should be okay.
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Do you want pictures from my install?
I think as long as you do not snap the fibre like a glow stick, most bends should be okay.
Yes please.
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I've got 3 right angle bends in the duct from the road (don't ask !!) to the side of my house (4 if you include the bend from the external box through the wall to meet the ONT). The 3 bends are fairly gentle curves and Openreach did not bat an eyelid when they rodded my duct prior to pulling the fibre. So the fibre seems to quite robust. Not a very technically complete answer I know.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33txeycXe7c
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Is that stuff used on External and internal? From pole to premises etc.. ?
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I think it goes from the CSP on the building wall to wherever the entry point on the building is.
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I think it goes from the CSP on the building wall to wherever the entry point on the building is.
If things were to work as my head thinks it could work then from the CSP to the ONT would just virtually back on to one another.
It's the cable that is run from a pole the premises that I'm more interested in knowing what bends it can take. Though it is also interesting to see that EZ bend cable in that video and knowing about its run from outside in.
Do you or anyone know a bit about the external cable grade and bend flexibility.
Many thanks.
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These fibre optic cables are pretty tough, when they were cabling our road the cables were laid in long lengths along pavements across residents' drives before they were pulled into ducts and connected to poles. I saw cars and delivery vans, even lorries drove over the cables before they were installed.
I recall reading somewhere bend shouldn't be less than radius of 2 pound coin, but I would assume whoever is installing should know what they are doing, and know what 'optimum' route should be.
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As @craigski says I am sure the installer will find the best way of doing it. It may be that CSP is placed elsewhere to where you think, so any tight bends can be negotiated by the EZ bend cable.
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Many thanks for the help and advice all.
I will be in contact when it hopefully happens.
Appreciate it.
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Many thanks for the help and advice all.
I will be in contact when it hopefully happens.
Appreciate it.
Yes - do feedback as a) we are ;D nosey and b) we are genuinely interested.
Cheers
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Yes - do feedback as a) we are ;D nosey and b) we are genuinely interested.
Cheers
Well it hasn't gone well so far...
The installation took place around 10am this morning. Never had to deal with Kelly's before and seen some right horror stories. First the guy turned up and said he would need to send the job back. I said how come? He said it passes 4 gardens (fed from rear) It actually passes half of quarter of someone's front driveway and a smidge of my neighbours back garden. So corrected h on that.
Then he said he can't get on a flat roof (garage 1 and kitchen extension 2) I said no worries I'll be doing that all for you and will feed it to you. I said I'll make this as easy a Friday job as you will do.
He eventually was won over and said here's the keys to my van. I thought, right let's crack on. He sent his trainee up the pole to fit the EZ Bend cable and clip it. Then I was on garage roof and took the reel and fed it across. Done the kitchen extension bit too and passed it to him on the ladder at the far side of my property. He fitted drop point and fed cable.
He then tacked it all the way round my side of property, around my front extension and to the point under lounge window next to VM point and old BT copper entry (which was fed UG originally) He fitted the splice point and done inside work where I asked to go. He fitted the Nokia ONT and then switched it all on and activated.
And now...
Green light on power on
Thing LOS lit up then went off
PON kept flashing (he said give it 10
He plugged my ethernet cable in for my ASUS RT AC86U LAN port solid green (ASUS red light due to PON flashing still)
So he gave it 20, said weird as I he got activation success text through.
He made a call to OR and a lady went through some bits with him. He then said she was struggling to connect to pole and her system would not let her in, shed pass this off to a supervisor. Meh...
So engineers left. He asked if I was happy with their work. It wasn't a bad job so said yeah fine. Couldn't keep them...
So a couple of hrs later still flashing. Contacted BT and OR CEO office.
BT FTTP team contacted OR and eventually said some routing issue (I'm first person connected to this CBT on pole.
She said it will need left for around 5 days... Oh man...
OR CEO office then emailed me and said some equipment in the exchange was at fault and some re cabling was required.
No idea now...
PON still flashing...
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Extroadinary, I was under the impression they absolutely would not want you touching any part of it, though I'd do the same and offer to do anything I could to get it done on the day. Shame it still didn't end well.
This is why I'm glad I have backup Internet, will be the first on my DP to get connected so rather nervous it wont go smoothly. I'm going into this assuming my DSL will go down and FTTP fail to come up, so that I can only be pleasantly surprised if it all goes smoothly.
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Extroadinary, I was under the impression they absolutely would not want you touching any part of it, though I'd do the same and offer to do anything I could to get it done on the day. Shame it still didn't end well.
This is why I'm glad I have backup Internet, will be the first on my DP to get connected so rather nervous it wont go smoothly. I'm going into this assuming my DSL will go down and FTTP fail to come up, so that I can only be pleasantly surprised if it all goes smoothly.
I don't know what's next now. I hope someone in the local OR team is looking at this.
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Hi
I am sorry, I do not understand why you contacted OR CEO office whilst it is still within fault time for resolution (5 days)
The issue is not with Kelly engineers and sounds like they did a good job. Even OR engineers would not be able to make live given the issue.
We had similar and was first for FTTP (business) but issue (which I think maybe your issue) was the original cable layers mislabelled between the pole cbt and street fibe closure. I did not contact OR CEO office and was resolved within 2 days with no pushing from, which was well within the fault resolution time frame
As a result of this, there has been no issues with further FTTP installs using same cbt pole.
I would just be patient and only start to push once it is outside of fault resolution time
Many thanks
John
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Hi John,
I totally understand what you mean. The majority of the CEO contact was merely because I had been in contact with them for a while regarding when it was coming to the area.
If they can resolve it in the time frame you mention then fair play.
I guess time will tell.
Thanks.
[Moderator edited to remove the unnecessary full quote of the immediately preceding mesage.]
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The latest is that there is a faulty cable further on at the back of the exchange. Seemingly this is the culprit.
I don't know enough about the cables within an exchange to know what specific cables there are and how specialist they are. Lost on me.
Guess it's the waiting game.
What do you guys think?
Thanks.
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The latest is that there is a faulty cable further on at the back of the exchange. Seemingly this is the culprit.
I don't know enough about the cables within an exchange to know what specific cables there are and how specialist they are. Lost on me.
Guess it's the waiting game.
What do you guys think?
Thanks.
It really is guess work ... as it could be anything from the cable chamber joint (the point where all internal fibres meet all external fibres), up the fixed cable fibres to the relevant floor in the building where the equipment is installed.
My £1 bet is on it being a fault on a hydra-cable though, this is a cable that looks exactly as it sounds (ie:the mythological beast, Hydra). These cables are often used to connect equipment racks together.
We'll probably never, ever get to know though. ::)
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Yeah I guess we will never quite know the exact issue. So much for taking the connection for a test drive. But that's the way it goes sometimes.
I just hope the team can fix it and move on. Guess time will tell.
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Am I right in saying if the PON is flashing green it's communicating ok with the exchange? Just isn't verified on the network?
Reason I ask is because I can see what looks like a hammer whack on the fibre cable next to one of the tacks. Like the hammer missed once or twice. But would I be right in saying if the cable was broke the LOS light would be constant red? Openreach are also saying no lights issues from exchange to CSP. So should this whack in the cable be bothering me?
Someone has now mentioned about a Tiger team error or something along those lines. This isn't a new build or anything.
Crikey. I was just expecting a simple upgrade from FTTC which had done me well to FTTP. I didn't foresee this.
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Am I right in saying if the PON is flashing green it's communicating ok with the exchange? Just isn't verified on the network?
Here's a BT page sorry of explaining the lights.
https://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19236/~/what-do-the-lights-on-my-openreach-ont---optical-network-terminator-mean%3F
If the LOS light isn't red then the fibre should be good.
It's probably just waiting on the service being activated at Openreach's end.
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The below are images of what I am on about btw...
https://ibb.co/HFjGgNd
https://ibb.co/sJFRc89
Kelly's done me over? Not helped the situation?
As I say, LOS light is out and PON is the one flashing. But seeing that damage this morning when checking the cable at ground level got me upset somewhat.
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seeing that damage this morning when checking the cable at ground level got me upset somewhat.
Its certainly not great, but I wouldn't be surprised if the fibre is absolutely fine as the support wires either side are pretty thick and the fibre in the middle really thin, they probably took all the force.
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Many thanks for the feedback on those images.
I will certainly hold tight for the exchange to do their thing. If all starts working and works well after that I shall probably just hold tight and use the connection. Obviously if anything else comes up with these initial teething issues I'll drop them these pics.
But I don't want to complicate things further with my issues I currently have. Openreach think it's an exchange issue so I'll leave it be at this time and let them get on with trying to get me up and running.
No Xbox for now 😔
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Hi
John is correct and I'm sure you will have googled the light conditions if not
https://www.bt.com/help/landline/lights-on-the-openreach-modem
So you fibre is working given your description and is awaiting verification, so nothing appears to be damaged. The main failures seem to be splice joints, but usually the engineer runs a test on light but not your issue here and I have seen cat5 and above with worse damage and still working
Many thanks
John
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Many thanks again for the feedback.
Yeah, at the end of the day if they get it working and it works well with no weird issues I will leave the connection be and crack on with it.
Just the waiting game...
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The below are images of what I am on about btw...
https://ibb.co/HFjGgNd
https://ibb.co/sJFRc89
Kelly's done me over? Not helped the situation?
I've seen worse. :-X
My only comment, having viewed those two images, is that the wrong cleats have been used.
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Which should be the correct cleats?
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Presumably ones shaped and sized correctly for the drop wire rather than ones designed for the round thicker copper.
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I think I know the ones you mean now. I had a Google search.
I wonder if Kelly's provide the workers with these to use? Or at least in my area...
Uhm..
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Which should be the correct cleats?
Ones that have the same cross-sectional profile as that of the cable and match the cable's diameter.
Those that have been used look like what would be appropriate for mains voltage, 5 ampere twin and earth, typically used for domestic lighting circuits.
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Ones that have the same cross-sectional profile as that of the cable and match the cable's diameter.
Those that have been used look like what would be appropriate for mains voltage, 5 ampere twin and earth, typically used for domestic lighting circuits.
Good eye, I hadn't quite comprehended just how much bigger it was than it should be.
This is what mine looks like which still looks wrong to me, seems to have used the same for the inside and outside fibre which are different shapes.
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This is what mine looks like which still looks wrong to me, . . .
Looks o.k., to me. (I don't think I could get one of my whiskers between the cleat and the cable sheath.)
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Looks o.k., to me. (I don't think I could get one of my whiskers between the cleat and the cable sheath.)
You would, down the middle where the fibre is as its thinner than the sides where the support wires are, but its probably fine anyway.
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You would, down the middle where the fibre is as its thinner than the sides where the support wires are, but its probably fine anyway.
After another look . . . Ah, I now see it. :-[
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Yeah its clearer if you get the right reflection.
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I'm invested now, how did this saga end?
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I'm invested now,
Invested? :-\ I suspect you intended to type "interested" but some autocorrection device decided that it knew best! ::)
The simple answer is "just be sensible with it". :)
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Nah, definitely meant invested. In invested in the story and need to know the conclusion!
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In that case, I'll tell you my rule of paw . . .
Treat it as you would sensibly treat Cat5e cable and you won't go wrong.