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Announcements => News Articles => Topic started by: stevebrass on March 29, 2022, 12:03:03 PM

Title: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: stevebrass on March 29, 2022, 12:03:03 PM
 https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consumers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/ (https://newsroom.bt.com/were-pausing-our-digital-voice-plans-for-consumers-while-we-work-on-a-more-resilient-rollout/)

Interesting development
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: GigabitEthernet on March 29, 2022, 12:28:37 PM
Good.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Black Sheep on March 29, 2022, 12:42:03 PM
Only had chance to skip-read through that but the thing that jumped out at me was this .... It’s not just BT customers who will need to make these changes, all home phone users, with any provider, will need to move to a digital system before 2025. .... this has always been the date PSTN was being switched off by my reckoning ??

I can't see where the 'pause' in the roll-out is, if they are still saying it will be all-digital by 2025 ??

My bad, if I've missed something.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: meritez on March 29, 2022, 01:29:37 PM
They have paused the new plans, and still rolling out the existing plan.

What were the next stage plans, app on your mobile for you to make landline calls?
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: gt94sss2 on March 29, 2022, 01:54:13 PM
Quote
This will be a pause to part of the programme, we will aim to re-start once we have key solutions in place to provide our customers with more resilient connectivity. These include:

- Hybrid phones that can switch to a mobile network and have an in-built, long-lasting battery.
- The option of longer-lasting battery back-up units for customers who want or need them.
- Providing in-home ‘mobile landlines’ for people without broadband.
- Addressing so-called mobile ‘not-spots’, with continued investment in the Shared Rural Network. We’ve recently announced a further 1,500 locations that will get better coverage as a result.
- Launching an awareness campaign so that our customers better understand the need to switch.
- Continuing to proactively engage the related industries - like healthcare pendants and burglar alarm providers to ensure our most vulnerable customers continue to get the service they need.

And we’re continuing to work on other things, too, including advancements to scam-call shielding and fraud reduction tools, that we know are becoming ever more important to our users of landlines.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: gt94sss2 on March 29, 2022, 02:05:49 PM
We have BT Digital Voice. It generally works fine with one exception.

From time to time, some of the BT provided handsets do not ring when there is an incoming call.

We then either need to reboot the modem and/or re-pair the phone to get it work again..

This seems to beat random - different handsets at different times
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: g3uiss on March 29, 2022, 05:20:57 PM
Not getting much good feedback on national news !
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Reformed on March 29, 2022, 05:32:57 PM
It's fine. They can keep POTS running and split the cost between all those that want it. Everyone else gets cheaper services, they get to keep their Victorian era technology.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: licquorice on March 29, 2022, 07:33:50 PM
Sounds like a good plan to me.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: g3uiss on March 29, 2022, 08:44:10 PM
If they don’t turn it off, won’t that discourage the development of the various bits by various manufacturers that still depend on wires ? Nothing like a deadline to focus the mind  ::)
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Black Sheep on March 29, 2022, 08:46:11 PM
They will be turning it off - have no doubt about that.  ;D
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: stevebrass on March 30, 2022, 01:16:07 AM
Credit to BT for reacting to problems. It does seem to me though that any replacement to POTS will be more complicated for the user.

I think OFCOM were involved in all this. I wonder how they view things.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: tubaman on March 30, 2022, 09:45:09 AM
Perhaps they'll need to revert to the battery backup units that were previously done away with? I know they're only good for a couple of hours but it'd be better than nothing.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: j0hn on March 30, 2022, 06:39:21 PM
They only powered the ONT.
ONT's no longer have phone ports as Openreach want the ISP to be responsible for voice, not themselves.

BT are developing their own UPS/battery backup. It will need to power both the ONT and the router.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 31, 2022, 12:05:58 AM
Its kinda weird they were gung-ho on going ahead when any idiot could see the issues of vulnerable users being left in the dark.  Seemed a huge oversight the instant they decided not to carry voice from the ONT and ditch the battery.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Bowdon on March 31, 2022, 02:13:58 PM
I would have thought in the long run keeping the port on the ONT would have been good leverage for OR. The more they remove the less they will be involved.

I also thought these ISP's were all about streamlining kit. If we're all using different UPS units in different formations its adding to an otherwise slick diagnosis problem solving path.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Reformed on March 31, 2022, 04:40:09 PM
I would have thought in the long run keeping the port on the ONT would have been good leverage for OR. The more they remove the less they will be involved.

Not really. How do you propose they switch the PSTN off while still running a voice service? They'd have to build an entirely new voice platform akin to the original plans for 21CN.

Its kinda weird they were gung-ho on going ahead when any idiot could see the issues of vulnerable users being left in the dark.  Seemed a huge oversight the instant they decided not to carry voice from the ONT and ditch the battery.

Have to draw the line at some point. This is a failure of the service providers selling phone services with no regard for resilience, not Openreach. Plenty of notice was given of changes to voice provision.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 01, 2022, 09:54:22 AM
Have to draw the line at some point. This is a failure of the service providers selling phone services with no regard for resilience, not Openreach. Plenty of notice was given of changes to voice provision.

You might argue that yes the ISP should perhaps offer a UPS solution for their router, but that still leaves the ONT as a problem.  The average end user it would probably never occur to them of the need for a UPS as they never have needed one before.  They also don't tend to come in kid-friendly or elderly friendly form factors.  The original BBU covered those things perfectly and also had very easy/cheap to replace (and dispose of the old ones) batteries.

I'd certainly argue that it being the ISPs responsibility to keep the ONT powered is not true, the ONT is OR domain and they should be the ones providing something.

I totally get the flexibility of having VoIP over the Internet so you can connect from anywhere, but on the other hand VoIP from the ONT over its own VLAN with a higher priority for its traffic makes a lot of sense for a home phone line.  Should contention ever happen on the PON, VoIP should get priority and if its done independently of the Internet connection it also doesn't fall foul of net neutrality.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: tonygibbs16 on April 01, 2022, 12:00:53 PM
You might argue that yes the ISP should perhaps offer a UPS solution for their router, but that still leaves the ONT as a problem.  The average end user it would probably never occur to them of the need for a UPS as they never have needed one before.  They also don't tend to come in kid-friendly or elderly friendly form factors.  The original BBU covered those things perfectly and also had very easy/cheap to replace (and dispose of the old ones) batteries.

I'd certainly argue that it being the ISPs responsibility to keep the ONT powered is not true, the ONT is OR domain and they should be the ones providing something.

I totally get the flexibility of having VoIP over the Internet so you can connect from anywhere, but on the other hand VoIP from the ONT over its own VLAN with a higher priority for its traffic makes a lot of sense for a home phone line.  Should contention ever happen on the PON, VoIP should get priority and if its done independently of the Internet connection it also doesn't fall foul of net neutrality.

I think that there are couple of things in here:

It is a complicated situation, because power from the exchange for telephony has been there for circa 100 years, and so POTS has been the last service working in most houses when everything else is down.

I think that events like Storm Arwen are showing that it is a bigger issue & change than companies like BT realised.

Cheers,
     Tony
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Reformed on April 01, 2022, 05:14:50 PM
I totally get the flexibility of having VoIP over the Internet so you can connect from anywhere, but on the other hand VoIP from the ONT over its own VLAN with a higher priority for its traffic makes a lot of sense for a home phone line.  Should contention ever happen on the PON, VoIP should get priority and if its done independently of the Internet connection it also doesn't fall foul of net neutrality.

This can be done without plugging a handset into the ONT. CP orders 2 x CVLANs from Openreach and has one of them set at higher priority on Openreach's systems and have their CPE shape.

See https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/content/dam/cpportal/public/images-and-documents/home/help-and-support/sins/documents/SIN_506.pdf sections 2.1.5-2.1.7 and  2.3.9-2.3.10.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 02, 2022, 03:07:08 AM
I think that events like Storm Arwen are showing that it is a bigger issue & change than companies like BT realised.

That's what bothers me, I could see this issue a mile away, I find it odd it took an actual event for them to see it.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: j0hn on April 02, 2022, 10:33:55 AM
What do they do when the next storm takes down their phone line instead of knocking out the power?
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: licquorice on April 02, 2022, 03:59:44 PM
They will insist that all infrastructure is underground to prevent storm damage.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Black Sheep on April 02, 2022, 04:08:27 PM
........ and then the floods came ......  ;D ;D
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: licquorice on April 02, 2022, 04:09:32 PM
 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 02, 2022, 05:57:46 PM
What do they do when the next storm takes down their phone line instead of knocking out the power?

But now you're getting into whataboutisms.  This isn't about covering every eventuality, its about trying to make it as reliable as POTS was.

........ and then the floods came ......  ;D ;D

That's why I live on a hill, though of course that means the electricity comes via lower areas but we do seem to get less power cuts than the rest of the city.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Reformed on April 02, 2022, 06:05:49 PM
Getting it as reliable as POTS is certainly doable. Anyone want to volunteer to pay for it?
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 02, 2022, 06:17:51 PM
Getting it as reliable as POTS is certainly doable. Anyone want to volunteer to pay for it?

You're forgetting that there were certain things they HAD to cover the cost of as part of the privatisation in the first place.  My grandparents already paid for the original infrastructure that they bought for a steal and as getting rid of it means they are no longer holding up their end of the bargain (they already got rid of most pay phones) then surely they should at least make it as reliable?
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Reformed on April 02, 2022, 09:35:11 PM
What they had to cover is irrelevant. BT was privatised a long time ago and the infrastructure purchased at the market rate.

Perhaps part of the reason for the lower acquisition price was the enormous pension liabilities?

Either way they're a privately owned, publicly owned business with the obligations the regulator and competition place on them. These are a balancing act.

No reason at all why almost everyone can't be covered via wireless infrastructure. If battery backup on the land line + bigger battery backup wireless isn't enough we're in trouble.

At the extremes satellite could be engaged, too. However unless you're planning on providing generators to everyone in the group, fueling and maintaining them free of charge there's always going to be the constraint of power supply to the home.

There may well end up being a last resort service for vulnerable people and it'll be BT. None of the altnets will be interested.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: HPsauce on April 14, 2022, 11:44:21 AM
Not sure if the left and right hands inside BT are communicating, I got this the other day:
Quote
We’re moving to Digital Voice Services and because of this a landline Calling Feature you’re subscribed to called ‘Call Sign’ will be removed on 30 September 2022.  Your Calling Features package will be updated accordingly and you won’t be billed for it after this date.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Bowdon on April 29, 2022, 09:16:40 PM
I've been reading recently that this pause is only for people currently on FTTP that hadn't taken the DV product that they were being pushed on to it, and this pause is because of that i.e. new customers will have DV automatically. So I'm not sure what to believe?

I think I've been identified as vulnerable because BT moved me to a better phone calling tariff that as ended up saving me about £50 per month on the phone part of the bill.

I got on there because I happened to get a good person on the phone to speak to who could understand my situation. I'm not sure if the documents required to prove disability have changed. But last time I looked BT were asking for documents that have ceased to exist since the 1970's (in my life time I've never had the document they ask for). It would be better for BT to ask for the disability receipt letter and operate similarly to how Motability operates when the disabled person as to prove they qualify for a vehicle.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 30, 2022, 12:01:05 AM
Its a tricky one as my mum was registered disabled for years before she received any sort of benefit from it, beyond a bus pass.  I'm not sure what "evidence" she had.  As we saw from Voxi though, if you are on a low-income benefit, there is a mechanism now to allow a third party 24 hour access to your bank statement electronically to verify that.  I went through that to get Voxi for £10/month for six months and it literally took a few minutes.  But to verify being vulnerable but not eligible for a benefit for it, no idea.

On the flip side, the council do not seem to take our disabilities or health issues in general seriously at all.

Mum asked for the gas inspector to wear clean overalls (never been in anyone elses house except the wearer as she has allergic reactions to other peoples skin) and face mask during the inspection (were vulnerable).  The contractor put this on their notes but the guy who turned up refused to honour them and the company claim they can't enforce it due to it not being legally required.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: noddy on May 24, 2022, 06:54:26 AM
I was wondering what will happen to customers on EO lines which BT says they have no plans to upgrade , when ever I've ask . Do they just cut us off ?
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: Black Sheep on May 24, 2022, 11:29:26 AM
On any EO circuits I've been involved in, in the past - OR tend to drop a Fibre cabinet on the underground E/O cable somewhere, (obviously) outside of the actual Exchange.
Title: Re: BT Digital Voice pause
Post by: dee.jay on May 24, 2022, 12:24:50 PM
On any EO circuits I've been involved in, in the past - OR tend to drop a Fibre cabinet on the underground E/O cable somewhere, (obviously) outside of the actual Exchange.

Yeah there's a green cab right outside my exchange for that purpose :) (SWAAZ)