Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: Jon21 on March 14, 2022, 07:18:05 PM
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I've had notification of a price rise incoming from Sky. I'm thinking of trying Zen again. Didn't have any problems with them when I was last with them, although have seen some threads and reviews recently which suggest they may have gone down hill?
On the package options, I get offered Unlimited Fibre 1 and 2 but the default seems to be without phone line rental. There's an option to add digital voice, which increases the price. Does that mean that they are now selling SOGEA connections as default?
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. . . I get offered Unlimited Fibre 1 and 2 but the default seems to be without phone line rental. There's an option to add digital voice, which increases the price. Does that mean that they are now selling SOGEA connections as default?
From what you have described, yes, it does appear to be so.
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All I can say is I'm happy with Zen and plan to stick with them for the foreseeable future.
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The only issue I would say is they use PPPOE for their FTTP. This means if you want to use PFsense or Opnsense you need a very beefy processor in order to get full speed.
Other ISPs such as TalkTalk offer FTTP over DHCP. Meaning you can get full speeds from a very moderate processor (e.g J1900) I personally think these ISPs should be supported and it makes life much easier.
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By todays standards I'd say a J1900 is a pocket calculator and its not Zens fault FreeBSD has a horrible PPP implementation.
I'd absolutely love to be done with PPP, but most ISPs use it because it ties into their legacy accounting system which might date back to dialup days. When even A&A use it (allowing them to offer L2TP), I don't think you can call out Zen for doing so.
I get the principle, without PPP it would still be enough for a basic router, but to suggest you need a beefy CPU seems a bit of an exaggeration, considering what a beefy CPU is today. Plus if you're doing so little you aren't taxing a J1900, do you even NEED pfSense?
Even if Zen was DHCP, I have AAISP L2TP and several OpenVPN instances on my box, so a J1900 would have a very bad time.
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The only issue I would say is they use PPPOE for their FTTP. This means if you want to use PFsense or Opnsense you need a very beefy processor in order to get full speed.
Other ISPs such as TalkTalk offer FTTP over DHCP. Meaning you can get full speeds from a very moderate processor (e.g J1900) I personally think these ISPs should be supported and it makes life much easier.
That's far from unique to Zen though and it's completely out of their control.
Talktalk (residential only) and Sky(including Now) are literally the only 2 Openreach providers that don't do PPPoE.
Anyone who needs a decent ISP or a static IP over Openreach is stuck with PPP.
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The only issue I would say is they use PPPOE for their FTTP. This means if you want to use PFsense or Opnsense you need a very beefy processor in order to get full speed.
Other ISPs such as TalkTalk offer FTTP over DHCP. Meaning you can get full speeds from a very moderate processor (e.g J1900) I personally think these ISPs should be supported and it makes life much easier.
Today I learnt my Mikrotik hAP Lite is more powerful than PFsense or OPNsense
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Today I learnt my Mikrotik hAP Lite is more powerful than PFsense or OPNsense
Depends how you class power. Devices with hardware offloading are more efficient but less "powerful" when it comes to flexibility in what you can do.
eg A lot of router hardware achieves Gigabit NAT (never mind PPP) by hardware offloading that prevents you being able to use any stateful packet filtering, QoS, basically anything other than very basic NAT functionality. I've seen claims PPP is often hardware accelerated too though never seen any specific hardware mentioned or how that works.
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Depends how you class power. Devices with hardware offloading are more efficient but less "powerful" when it comes to flexibility in what you can do.
Also devices with hardware acceleration will probably use less 'power' (electricity) :)
Draytek have a useful video with flow chart, showing how the acceleration is used with firewall & QoS etc in their devices, I assume will be similar for other devices with similar functionality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCZZ15fa2nU&t=960s
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All I can say is I'm happy with Zen and plan to stick with them for the foreseeable future.
Thanks. Overall, they do seem to still be recommended. Would I be able to use your referral link?
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Depends how you class power. Devices with hardware offloading are more efficient but less "powerful" when it comes to flexibility in what you can do.
eg A lot of router hardware achieves Gigabit NAT (never mind PPP) by hardware offloading that prevents you being able to use any stateful packet filtering, QoS, basically anything other than very basic NAT functionality. I've seen claims PPP is often hardware accelerated too though never seen any specific hardware mentioned or how that works.
3.5w power usage.
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Thanks. Overall, they do seem to still be recommended. Would I be able to use your referral link?
Please do, its on the site linked in my sig.
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Please do, its on the site linked in my sig.
Thanks. Unfortunately, I can't get past the creating an account part. It just seems to loop as soon as I hit continue. I had issues trying to sign up the last I went with Zen. Had to do it via email in the end, so might have to go down that route again.
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Does that mean that they are now selling SOGEA connections as default?
Yes and no. We just ordered a new Zen FTTC service at a new location. It's a business address and we ordered a business package which includes a phone line (yea olde fashioned PSTN, not digital). The address did allow the option of a consumer contract which was SOGEA with digital phone option as an extra.
And yes, I still like Zen and recommend them.
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I joined Zen FTTC unlimited fibre 2 with a phone line for for gaming for low latency to gaming servers as they have direct peering for Microsoft (Xbox), Steam and Google Stadia), It was going great until i had a problem with the lon2/ixn xDSL gateway that was giving me the double of pings, Instead of 7ms, it about 18-21ms however this was a issue with talktalk wholesale side of things but taken me just a month and abit just to get them to move me over to a BT Wholesale (BTw) line that i originally on, and now ill be moved over to BTw at the end of this month.
Keep in mind, Zen will take out 1 month in advance when signing up (but this was done on phone sales) not sure if online is the same.
Talktalk (residential only) and Sky(including Now) are literally the only 2 Openreach providers that don't do PPPoE.
Do Sky do option DHCP 61/client ID still?
Edit
Tried going to Zen for SoGEA but they wont take of the line rental so still £34.99 without contract.(30 day rolling)
Also i did ask if get the "Digital Voice" would Zen provide me with the VoIP information so i could stick this on my cisco IP phone but is in there T&C that it has to be on there Fritzbox, so 7530 unless they giving out the AX version to new customers with Broadcom DSL chipset https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7530-ax/
If you need a Digital Voice with a number then AAISP is the best one with no restrictions and can put on a cisco ip phone (VoIP info will be on there customer panel) https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/ - Just remember, If you have a router that QoS compatible, Remember to let VoIP traffic for high priority traffic unless Zen has this in place already or get there Fritzbox to do it via TR-069.
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I had this latency issue. I didn’t get resolved, however I didn’t push as I moved to FTTP with another supplier a week ago.
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I had this latency issue. I didn’t get resolved, however I didn’t push as I moved to FTTP with another supplier a week ago.
In the end g3uiss, I had to email Paul Stobart the CEO and explain the whole situation and then he forwarded onto 4 people but complaints team did all the resolving of the matter. So went like
1) got a email from "complaints@zen.co.uk" saying that someone from tech team was going to call me next day ...
2) call was from tech team to verify that i wasn't using any sort of Wireless and send them the two gateways traceroute via live chat so they can copy and paste it for a ticket for NOC team.
3) email from Campins to say NoC team is looking at the matter and if i was to move over onto BTw, it will take up to a month)
4) email from Campins to say they was going to move me over from TalkTalk Wholesale to BT Wholesale and would be completed by 29th so end of month.
So will see how my FTTC line is when on BTw in middle of April when the 10 days is up for the DSLAM to recognizes line stability.
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Yes I could have gone down that route, but when it happened I was only 6 weeks away from my FTTP, so didn’t recon I was going to get anywhere. My FTTP is 7ms most of the time. On Friday my number will port from Zen to Sippgate and that will be project completed.
I do think it’s sad to get a problem fixed you need the complaints team really.
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I do think it’s sad to get a problem fixed you need the complaints team really.
Every broadband has there faults from time 2 time, Dont get me wrong, i was on the verg to Andrews & Arnold (AAISP) but £45 is pricey for me but since alot of people are saying there customer service is awesome/
My FTTP is 7ms most of the time
Same with FTTC, When i was on BTw with Zen (before they moved me over to TT wholesale) - Best ping i got was from gameservers what uses vultr for server hosting with an always ping of 5-6ms depends on the time of day but wouldnt peak no where near 7ms, Amsterdam was about 11ms what is pretty decent.
Oh forget to mention that there was another time with them all London xDSL gateways where routed from london to manchester and back to london cousing a loopback https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/t/4655136-routed-from-london-to-manchester-and-back-to-london.html
Is ever since they messed with adding the interxion london gateway (ixn-lon) things just went down hill.
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Every broadband has there faults from time 2 time, Dont get me wrong, i was on the verg to Andrews & Arnold (AAISP) but £45 is pricey for me but since alot of people are saying there customer service is awesome/
But then if AAISP were as cheap as everyone else they would be more popular and support would go downhill there too.
Its why on some level I wish Zen were less competitiveas it makes their margins tighter and tighter plus the bigger they get, the closer they are to being forced to follow the stupid court-ordered blocks.
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But then if AAISP were as cheap as everyone else they would be more popular and support would go downhill there too.
Its why on some level I wish Zen were less competitiveas it makes their margins tighter and tighter plus the bigger they get, the closer they are to being forced to follow the stupid court-ordered blocks.
Good point Alex :baby:
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Thanks for all the feedback. I haven't as yet done anything. Not sure whether to just stick with Sky or move. Virgin have an offer on their Gig1+Home Phone+O2 Sim for £55/month but, I don't know whether the DOCSIS 3.1 network is any better than DOCSIS 3? It wasn't great back in October when I tried it on M200, although did appear to get the speeds, both down and up. Latency was not good though.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I haven't as yet done anything. Not sure whether to just stick with Sky or move. Virgin have an offer on their Gig1+Home Phone+O2 Sim for £55/month but, I don't know whether the DOCSIS 3.1 network is any better than DOCSIS 3? It wasn't great back in October when I tried it on M200, although did appear to get the speeds, both down and up. Latency was not good though.
When i was on Virgin Media with there Superhub 2, I had alot of utilization issues where they wont do nothing about until it reached something like % even though they can clearly see the issues themselfs,
If you was to move back to them, Make sure your happy, if not cancel within the 28 day cooling off period.
when I tried it on M200, although did appear to get the speeds, both down and up. Latency was not good though.
I always find that i have a min of 14ms even though im in hertfordshire however im not sure if this apples to the new FTTP as i was on a coaxial connection with them.
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Noted a post today from "jelv" which says quite a lot for Zen's technical support service.
Issue reported:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,26888.msg450950.html#msg450950
Issue resolved:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,26888.msg450962.html#msg450962
The time scale between reporting and resolution in this case can't be faulted!
Ironically I'am on my last day with Zen BB FTTC & phone service, FTTP install with BT due tomorrow.
Was tempted away from Zen to BT with their current FTTP + phone offer on 18 month contract, due to a number of install delays, all be it with OR which would likely have occured with any ISP, hopefully the install will actually happen tomorrow. :fingers:
As always, will certainly review my options for next contract period and Zen will likely still be high on my list.
Edit: Typo correction.
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Ironically I'am on my last day with Zen BB FTTP & phone service, . . .
Should that one occurrence of FTTP actually be FTTC? ???
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Should that one occurrence of FTTP actually be FTTC? ???
Should it be FTP?
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Apologies, yes, should of course have been "last day of FTTC & phone service", now corrected. :blush:
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Hopefully all will go well tomorrow. :)
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Out of curiosity; how do you know if you are on TT or BTw with Zen? I recently moved to FTTC (having come from VM) so having to readjust to the speed drop :)
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Out of curiosity; how do you know if you are on TT or BTw with Zen? I recently moved to FTTC (having come from VM) so having to readjust to the speed drop :)
It used to tell you in their customer control panel but for the majority of customers it no longer does.
A tracert might give an indication of the backhaul provider.
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Chat support seems to think its openreach.. ::) is there a quicker route to their NOC team for example?
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It used to tell you in their customer control panel but for the majority of customers it no longer does.
A tracert might give an indication of the backhaul provider.
AFAIK the first hop is always one of their core routers in London or (rarely) Manchester. How you get there is completely invisible.
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Yes I could have gone down that route, but when it happened I was only 6 weeks away from my FTTP, so didn’t recon I was going to get anywhere. My FTTP is 7ms most of the time. On Friday my number will port from Zen to Sippgate and that will be project completed.
I do think it’s sad to get a problem fixed you need the complaints team really.
What's the best way to do the number port? Order FTTP with Zen separately, and then when it's in do the port request/cease on the FTTC? Or is there a mechanism to do FTTC > FTTP upgrade with Zen and port the number to sipgate without it screwing up? I've seen mixed reports and advice!
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I'll let you know when I port mine.
Did the FTTC to FTTP first, now trying to figure out "when its safe" to port the POTS to VoIP.
From what I can gather so far, it takes a while for the account details to sort themselves out as the FTTC is ceased and the databases are updated so the account no longer is linked to your landline. Yesterday it was still showing my telephone number against my account and Bundle: Yes, now that appears to have gone but the order hasn't closed yet. The physical connection itself was done on Monday.
NOTE: This only works if you have line rental and broadband with different providers. If they are both with the same provider it seems to be hit and miss, but is supposed to work if you move them over to the FTTP + VoIP package, you can't split them to different providers without losing your number though should be able to port VoIP to VoIP later, but presumably only once the minimum contract is up.
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The only issue I would say is they use PPPOE for their FTTP. This means if you want to use PFsense or Opnsense you need a very beefy processor in order to get full speed.
Just wanted to say that the Celeron N5105 handles this like a breeze.
OpenVPN does absolutely hammer it, but still pushes 500Mbit. For some reason I've been having real issues with AirVPNs Wireguard servers lately so haven't been able to test that.