Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: adslmax on January 08, 2022, 09:57:47 PM

Title: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 08, 2022, 09:57:47 PM
I can hear cracking noise on the phone line dialed 17070 option 2 really bad one! Sync drop to 129/27 from 241/38 as there is more than 400 errors on downstream and more than 200 errors on the upstream as the line kept dropping 31 times all day today. I have emailed my isp but no reply yet. SNR kept go up and down all day 21dB to 0dB >:( :( I just cannot wait to get rid of G.fast for good in May. Had enough now. Should have stayed with FTTC 80/20 which it more stable, reliable for 7 years with max speed. Really disappointed with G.fast overall.

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 08 Jan 2022 21:47:02

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pvfbH043q.d26u
DSL mode:                G
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  8 days 19 hours 14 min 2 sec
Resyncs:                31 (since 08 Jan 2022 21:46:14)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  37.8 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 37.8 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 129301 27761
SNR margin (dB):        21.1 18.1
Power (dBm):            0.0 4.1
Interleave depth:       
INP:                    550.00 607.00
G.INP:                  Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        Unknown

RSCorr/RS (%):          17.2512 12.2730
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                471 216

Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: meritez on January 08, 2022, 10:04:05 PM
So let's do some basic checks:
1. Disconnect your g.fast router and perform a silent line test without anything else attached, does the crackling persist?

Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 08, 2022, 10:10:51 PM
Do u mean switch off G.fast router. Plugged into test socket then dial 17070 option 2?
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: burakkucat on January 08, 2022, 10:32:43 PM
Do u mean switch off G.fast router. Plugged into test socket then dial 17070 option 2?

Yes, that's correct.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 08, 2022, 10:34:46 PM
ok do I need to test 17070 option 2 with leaving faceplate on or test it in the test socket by unclipped front faceplate off?
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 08, 2022, 10:41:13 PM
No dsl cable from the front faceplate dial 17070 option 2 cracking noise! Removed from frontplate unclipped off and dial 17070 option 2 in test socket (quiet line, no cracking noise)

Seem frontplate faulty?

Updated: Isp has replied there is fault on the telephone and booked in for an engineer on Tuesday morning slot.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: burakkucat on January 08, 2022, 10:51:53 PM
No dsl cable from the front faceplate dial 17070 option 2 cracking noise! Removed from frontplate unclipped off and dial 17070 option 2 in test socket (quiet line, no cracking noise)

Seem frontplate faulty?

Yes, I agree with your analysis.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 08, 2022, 10:56:56 PM
Hope the engineer will replaced new socket and I will asked him to downgraded me to FTTC 80/20 until May with the same isp but I think I need to ask my isp first because the speed are below minimum threshold.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: burakkucat on January 08, 2022, 11:22:29 PM
Hope the engineer will replaced new socket . . .

Yes, I would expect that to be done.

Quote
. . . and I will asked him to downgraded me to FTTC 80/20 until May with the same isp but I think I need to ask my isp first because the speed are below minimum threshold.

The engineer will only perform the task that the ISP has requested which, in this case, is to find & eliminate the source of the audible noise and resolve the G.Fast service degradation. 
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: GigabitEthernet on January 09, 2022, 12:04:46 AM
Why can't you just use your connection? What is wrong with it?
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: Reformed on January 09, 2022, 12:40:48 AM
You have a fault. Your ISP is fixing it. You are not entitled to a downgrade due to not hitting the minimum unless it cannot be fixed.

If they downgrade you that's at their discretion. Brutal as it is you agreed a contract and claimed you were competent to agree it. They are a very small operator so can't as easily take making a loss on you as Plusnet, Virgin Media and your earlier G.fast ISP did.

I believe it would cost them money to move you from your current service to 80/20 as your line needs moving from pod to cabinet.

I think they're doing fine getting an engineer to you to fix the issue on Tuesday. Faults and performance issues happen on FTTP, too. You at least have service and a service that does everything you need it to.

You probably wouldn't be aware of the issue if not for that abominable stats collector. Engineer on the way, fixed on Tuesday, done.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: burakkucat on January 09, 2022, 12:56:28 AM
I can hear cracking noise on the phone line dialed 17070 option 2 . . .

I do not think it is unreasonable to request that the defect be fixed. As we all know, a telephony circuit should be silent.

[off topic]
As the NTE5/C is well-known to be a junk device, I would fix the fault myself. Replace the NTE5/C with an NTE5/A and add a Mk 3 SSFP.
[/off topic]
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 01:01:31 AM
[off topic]
As the NTE5/C is well-known to be a junk device, I would fix the fault myself. Replace the NTE5/C with an NTE5/A and add a Mk 3 SSFP.
[/off topic]

Then why Openreach engineer aware of this junk device that should never installed during first day of G.fast?
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: burakkucat on January 09, 2022, 01:06:42 AM
Then why Openreach engineer aware of this junk device that should never installed during first day of G.fast?

Because of a "management" decree.  ::)
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: meritez on January 09, 2022, 01:32:02 AM
Why can't you just use your connection? What is wrong with it?

The funky master socket has a fault due to the inbuilt filter.

Max could go back to the test socket put a dangly filter in and see if the issue goes away.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 01:35:36 AM
The G.fast router now plugged into test socket with ADSL2+ filter as I don't have any G.fast filter! I expected DLM will put high INP anytime now
Code: [Select]
============================================================================
    xDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   G.fast Annex A
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 0 hour: 16 minutes
============================================================================
       xDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     28.652 Mbps      222.237 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     28.468 Mbps      221.711 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        3.1 dB            3.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.1 dBm           0.0 dBm
           Receive Power:        4.7 dBm           3.0 dBm
              Actual INP:      607.0 symbols     550.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate:     28.419 Mbps      221.117 Mbps
============================================================================

Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: meritez on January 09, 2022, 01:37:32 AM
You have a fault. Your ISP is fixing it. You are not entitled to a downgrade due to not hitting the minimum unless it cannot be fixed.

If they downgrade you that's at their discretion. Brutal as it is you agreed a contract and claimed you were competent to agree it. They are a very small operator so can't as easily take making a loss on you as Plusnet, Virgin Media and your earlier G.fast ISP did.

I believe it would cost them money to move you from your current service to 80/20 as your line needs moving from pod to cabinet.

G.fast still has a minimum 12 months Openreach contract, as does FTTP over Openreach. Doesn't matter the size of the ISP, it's to stop people downgrading for no good reason.

SoGEA, FTTC and ADSL can have 1 month contracts at present.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 01:39:13 AM
I found it online maybe I ordered it now as G.fast sync rate always lower rate in the test socket lose around 19 Meg chopped off

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-filters/gfast-plug-in-filter/
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: meritez on January 09, 2022, 01:40:58 AM
Well done on proving the filter Max.

So if I was you I'd cancel the engineer and see if the fault replicates on the ADSL filter.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 01:45:42 AM
DLM trigger just now!  :( I hate DLM!  :rant: :rant:
Code: [Select]
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  37.0 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 37.0 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 226641 28275
SNR margin (dB):        3.1 4.1
Power (dBm):            0.0 4.1
Interleave depth:       
INP:                    607.00 627.00
G.INP:                  Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        Unknown

Bearer 0
INP:            607.00          627.00
INPRein:        10.00            4.00
delay:          0               0
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: meritez on January 09, 2022, 01:50:12 AM
I found it online maybe I ordered it now as G.fast sync rate always lower rate in the test socket lose around 19 Meg chopped off

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-filters/gfast-plug-in-filter/

That's not bad for £6.
I'm not sure if I should be concerned about 19 Meg loss on a variable digital subscriber copper line service.

I'd order the filter.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 01:52:38 AM
I go ahead and order the filter (g.fast) hopefully it will go back to 241/38 as it should be. But I still go ahead with engineer on Tuesday and tell him I am not happy with that socket MK4 and want to have NTE5/A and add a Mk 3 SSFP.

I got spare one in the cupboard when engineer took this socket off when I was with FTTC before. I will ask the engineer to put that back in. Screenshot below

Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: tubaman on January 09, 2022, 09:11:47 AM
I wouldn't bank on the engineer refitting your MK3 as a) It's second-hand as far as he is concerned, and b) You are on a G.Fast service so he should fit a G.Fast faceplate.
You still have a perfectly useable service so just ignore it until it gets fixed on Tuesday.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 11:19:49 AM
G.fast has done resync this morning from the test socket

Resyncs:                   1 (since 09 Jan 2022 07:42:11)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     36.9      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   36.9      0.0
Connection speed (kbps):   229769      30020
SNR margin (dB):           3.1      3.1
Power (dBm):               0.0      4.1
Interleave depth:                
INP:                       607.00      627.00
G.INP:                     Not enabled      Not enabled
Vectoring status:          Unknown      
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 11:21:49 AM
I wouldn't bank on the engineer refitting your MK3 as a) It's second-hand as far as he is concerned, and b) You are on a G.Fast service so he should fit a G.Fast faceplate.
You still have a perfectly useable service so just ignore it until it gets fixed on Tuesday.

Ok I will leave everything to the engineer on Tuesday as the isp told me once the engineer has fixed the fault he will perform the DLM resetted.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: j0hn on January 09, 2022, 01:29:18 PM
G.fast still has a minimum 12 months Openreach contract, as does FTTP over Openreach. Doesn't matter the size of the ISP, it's to stop people downgrading for no good reason.

SoGEA, FTTC and ADSL can have 1 month contracts at present.

You've been able to get 1 month contacts on FTTP migrations for quite a while.
That was extended to new provisions in April 2021.
It also applies to G.Fast.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/04/openreach-adopt-1-month-terms-for-uk-fttp-broadband-lines.html
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: burakkucat on January 09, 2022, 02:36:10 PM
That's not bad for £6.

You have forgotten the VAT . . .

Quote from: RID
£7.14 inc VAT

Then there is the postage, which gives a grand total of £11.33  :o

I estimate that the manufacturer's cost for that "rats tail" micro-filter doesn't exceed £0-50 per unit when made in bulk . . .  :-X
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: GigabitEthernet on January 09, 2022, 03:55:25 PM
The funky master socket has a fault due to the inbuilt filter.

Max could go back to the test socket put a dangly filter in and see if the issue goes away.

Presumably it does work though, because they're posting here?

It looks like the speed is a bit lower but the connection is actually working, if he wasn't obsessing yet again over stats he wouldn't even notice.

I just don't know what indulging this habit does for him or us, I know people get angry when I say this but I am sadly being proven right.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: j0hn on January 09, 2022, 04:11:46 PM
It looks like the speed is a bit lower but the connection is actually working, if he wasn't obsessing yet again over stats he wouldn't even notice.

I just don't know what indulging this habit does for him or us, I know people get angry when I say this but I am sadly being proven right.

I would certainly notice 31 resyncs in a single day.

He obsesses over stats WAY too much yes but he has a genuine fault this time and an engineer is being sent.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: Reformed on January 09, 2022, 04:21:42 PM
I would certainly notice 31 resyncs in a single day.

Fair. My mistake.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: GigabitEthernet on January 09, 2022, 08:30:00 PM
I would certainly notice 31 resyncs in a single day.

He obsesses over stats WAY too much yes but he has a genuine fault this time and an engineer is being sent.

But doesn’t G.Fast use SRA?
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 08:41:54 PM
My G.fast went down 31 times because snr kept dropped. As my connection isn't stable with faulty faceplate socket. My isp say the line is faulty and booked engineer on Tuesday.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: j0hn on January 09, 2022, 09:49:01 PM
But doesn’t G.Fast use SRA?

SRA just means rather than the sync rate staying static and the SNRM fluctuating, the SNRM will remain on its target and the sync rate will fluctuate instead.

G.Fast still resyncs just like VDSL2 and it takes just as long to do said resync.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 09, 2022, 09:56:55 PM
I thought G.fast is always ON - shouldn't resync at all. If max rate change or snr change it will change itself without losing connection but if 31 resync mean 31 times the router keep going on and off from the DSL light flashing on and off.

Code: [Select]
FastRetr:       32
FailedRetr:     31
FailedFastRetr: 42

Up to dated: the router still connected to test socket with adsl filter still stable all day except once resync this morning.

Code: [Select]
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  36.9 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 36.9 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 230132 28633
SNR margin (dB):        3.1 3.1
Power (dBm):            0.0 4.1
Interleave depth:       
INP:                    607.00 627.00
G.INP:                  Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        Unknown
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 10, 2022, 12:58:28 AM
I just checked my electricity meter in the bin cupboard earlier on today. I have noticed junction box BT52A is all damped in the bin cupboard. That's could be faulty to line noisey. I will let the engineer know about this tomorrow.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: tubaman on January 10, 2022, 07:37:44 AM
I thought G.fast is always ON - shouldn't resync at all. ...

Read @j0hn post - it tries to keep the SNRM constant by adjusting the speed. It can only do this to a certain extent though, and if errors get too high will resync at a higher SNRM.
The stats in your first post showed SNRM at ~20dB rather than ~3dB that is usual for your line.
 :)
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: Reformed on January 10, 2022, 08:15:39 AM
I just checked my electricity meter in the bin cupboard earlier on today. I have noticed junction box BT52A is all damped in the bin cupboard. That's could be faulty to line noisey. I will let the engineer know about this tomorrow.

Good, and perhaps your landlord. There shouldn't be mould/damp in the property.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: tubaman on January 10, 2022, 09:13:57 AM
Good, and perhaps your landlord. There shouldn't be mould/damp in the property.

From photos that Max has posted in the past I think it's an outdoor cupboard so condensation/damp at this time of year wouldn't be too surprising.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 10, 2022, 09:18:26 AM
Yes the bin cupboard was awful damp and full of spider web
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 11, 2022, 08:05:54 AM
Engineer has texted me say he is on his way to sort out my broadband fault in half an hour. I better get cup of tea and chocolate biscuit ready for him.  ;D
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 11, 2022, 08:33:55 AM
Engineer is here. He found a fault and say the cable need to be replaced and will sort out the junction box in the bin cupboard. Will take few hour job.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 11, 2022, 10:37:04 AM
The engineer has replaced new dsl cable from the bin cupboard moved to other side and replaced new master socket MK4. Tested and told me great news I am now on full max rate after resetted to open profile. I am so happy and glad to have G.fast resolved.   :) ;D

Before Engineer:

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 11 Jan 2022 08:28:55

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pvfbH043q.d26u
DSL mode:                G
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  6 hours 56 min 23 sec
Resyncs:                1 (since 11 Jan 2022 01:30:04)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  37.4 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 37.4 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 233987 38624
SNR margin (dB):        3.1 3.1
Power (dBm):            0.0 4.1
Interleave depth:       
INP:                    607.00 607.00
G.INP:                  Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        Unknown

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0018 0.0347
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0

============================================================================
    xDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   G.fast Annex A
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 6 hours: 56 minutes
============================================================================
       xDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     38.809 Mbps      234.500 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     38.624 Mbps      233.987 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        3.1 dB            3.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.1 dBm           0.0 dBm
           Receive Power:        4.7 dBm           3.0 dBm
              Actual INP:      607.0 symbols     607.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate:     38.624 Mbps      233.968 Mbps
============================================================================

After Engineer:

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 11 Jan 2022 10:31:55

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xc190 (193.144) / v0xc190
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pvfbH043q.d26u
DSL mode:                G
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  0 hour 39 min 23 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 11 Jan 2022 09:50:04)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  33.9 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): 33.9 0.0
Connection speed (kbps): 329991 49987
SNR margin (dB):        3.0 3.0
Power (dBm):            0.0 4.0
Interleave depth:       
INP:                    540.00 535.00
G.INP:                  Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        Unknown

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0011 0.0028
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0

============================================================================
    xDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   G.fast Annex A
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 0 hour: 39 minutes
============================================================================
       xDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     50.487 Mbps      330.994 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     49.987 Mbps      329.991 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        3.0 dB            3.0 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.0 dBm           0.0 dBm
           Receive Power:        4.7 dBm           3.0 dBm
              Actual INP:      535.0 symbols     540.0 symbols
Attainable Net Data Rate:     51.478 Mbps      331.871 Mbps
============================================================================



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: underzone on January 11, 2022, 11:27:02 AM
Great result, a big improvement!  :)
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: tubaman on January 11, 2022, 12:07:16 PM
Excellent outcome.
Now please try to just use it and not keep looking at the stats!
 :)
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 11, 2022, 12:15:26 PM
Many thanks. The engineer told me G.fast always up and down automatically but the speed are minimum guarantee of 150Meg above. He even asked me why you not using Openreach Gfast Modem as I told him I need spare socket for the lamp to put there at night time in the hallway overnight. I told him Gfast router are fine.

I better stop looking at the stats now. No more stats.  :-X

Until May, downgraded to FTTC 80/20 because of money budget (living cost are going up) :no:
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: 4candles on January 11, 2022, 03:46:46 PM

I better stop looking at the stats now. No more stats.  :-X

Promise?   ;)
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: burakkucat on January 11, 2022, 05:10:12 PM
b*cat stares (https://elrepo.org/people/ajb/I_Am_Watching_You.jpg) in Max's direction.
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: GigabitEthernet on January 12, 2022, 09:56:40 PM
I give it a week before you're back
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: adslmax on January 13, 2022, 12:41:23 AM
I give it a week before you're back

 ;D :D :cool: :lol:
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: g3uiss on January 13, 2022, 09:44:16 AM
I give it a week before you're back
That long  :lol:
Title: Re: G.Fast Faulty
Post by: burakkucat on January 13, 2022, 03:30:44 PM
A satisfactory conclusion has been reached.