Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Mobile broadband => Topic started by: DaveC on October 30, 2021, 04:47:09 PM
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Hi,
My setup is this:
ZTE MF823 USB modem (LTE Cat3)
Rooter GL AR150 portable router with USB support (powered over POE)
Internal 4G antenna (not sure of the exact model, but looks similar to https://www.amazon.co.uk//dp/B09C8ZQ5CP)
This equipment is all a few years old, but I've just set it up again with a Smarty Unlimited SIM. I'm located in South-East London, and the equipment is located in my loft, connected via ethernet to my Firebrick FB2900.
Speedtest is reaching a max of about 40Mbits/s download (but mostly around 15-20) and around 15Mbits/s upload, and I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to increase that, or if I am limited by mast congestion. I should be in a 5G area, but I'm not sure I want to go to the expense of a 5G modem.
My modem is showing the following info:
Active band: LTE B3 (1800)
RSSI: -49 dBm (varies between about -42 and -52)
RSRP: -79dBm
SINR: 17dB (varies between about 16 and 20)
If I'm understanding correctly, the RSSI is comfortably "excellent", RSRP is just at the low end of "excellent", whereas the SINR could be a little better (I see 20db+ rated as "excellent").
So I'm wondering what my best bet is for increasing throughput (on a limited budget) ?
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I'm not a fan of USB modems, they are limited by their size and power profile.
I upgraded from a portable router to the HUAWEI B535-232 which has carrier aggregation, that doubled my speed.
The Hauwei H122-373 gained 20Mbit over that when I briefly tested it on 4G, but obviously an insane cost for that, but I do reach 700Mbit on that with 5G.
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You do definitely need a 5G modem, any chance of a cheap one in ebay?
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You do definitely need a 5G modem, any chance of a cheap one in ebay?
I doubt it, there's so few of them out right now that they retain the price premium.
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Hmm, the HUAWEI B535-232 seems interesting (and relatively affordable, if bought used). What speeds are you seeing?
Also, are you using an external antenna, or just the ones that come with it?
I do worry that my speed is simply limited by congestion though - I've been doing speedtests for the last 12 hours or so, and whilst they seem to peak at around 40Mbits/s, they rarely achive more than about 20Mbits/s.
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Hmm, the HUAWEI B535-232 seems interesting (and relatively affordable, if bought used). What speeds are you seeing?
Also, are you using an external antenna, or just the ones that come with it?
I do worry that my speed is simply limited by congestion though - I've been doing speedtests for the last 12 hours or so, and whilst they seem to peak at around 40Mbits/s, they rarely achive more than about 20Mbits/s.
The one I bought came with external antennas as well as internal, but I so no benefit from them compared to the internal ones.
I got 120Mbit on Vodafone (140Mbit on the H122-373) from a very close by tower (only 100m or so away), Three was more hit and miss as the tower is well obstructed and overloaded, but for a while got 100Mbit off that too. That same Three tower that I can get 700Mbit off now on a good day on the H122-373, usually does at least 400Mbit.
I'd be surprised if you didn't see an improvement, the carrier aggregation really helps as I believe it means it can latch onto two different frequencies at the same time? Also the much bigger antennas means a stronger signal.
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Hi DaveC,
Can you get hold of a ZTE Softbank 403zt Cat7 Usb Dongle:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32961337689.html
4G Modem Technical Specifications:
* LTE Category 7 USB Modem
* Chipset: Qualcomm MDM9230
- AXGP system: Band 41(2.5GHz)
- FDD-LTE system: Band 1/3/8/25 (800MHz/900MHz/1.7GHz/1.9GHz/2.1GHz)
- WCDMA system (850/900/2100MHz)
- GSM system (850/900/1800/1900MHz)
* Shape: USB stick (USB2.0 High Speed)
* AXGP peak download speed to 165 Mbps, upload speed to 10Mbps
* FDD-LTE maximum download speed to 187.5Mbps and upload speed to 37.5Mbps
* 3G download speed to 42Mbps and upload speed to 5.7Mbps
Currently around £20 from Ali express
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Can you get hold of a ZTE Softbank 403zt Cat7 Usb Dongle:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32961337689.html
Thanks, although that site seems very broken to me, and trying the Desktop version of the link here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961337689.html
says the item is no longer available.
But I'm doubting that my hardware is the main issue - I'm blaming Three's network. Over the past 24 hours, my speedtests have varied between about 6Mbits/s download (a few minutes ago), and about 60Mbits/s (in the early hours of the morning), with upload being pretty stable at around 15-17Mbits/s.
So maybe I'll just wait until 5G routers become more affordable.
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Thanks, although that site seems very broken to me, and trying the Desktop version of the link here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961337689.html
says the item is no longer available.
But I'm doubting that my hardware is the main issue - I'm blaming Three's network. Over the past 24 hours, my speedtests have varied between about 6Mbits/s download (a few minutes ago), and about 60Mbits/s (in the early hours of the morning), with upload being pretty stable at around 15-17Mbits/s.
So maybe I'll just wait until 5G routers become more affordable.
At the moment you're only using a single band that three offer, band 3.
Three aggregate bands to improve upload and download speeds, they offer:
Band 28, Band 32, Band 1, Band 20 and Band 3.
https://halberdbastion.com/intelligence/mobile-networks/three-uk-3
The current mf823 you are using has no carrier aggregate, so while you are connecting to 15mhz of bandwidth, when the band gets busy, your usb dongle has no wriggle room, it has to wait for a free space to transmit and receive data again.
Usb is also outdated, the cat7 is probably the last version produced.
Are you interested in replacing the firebrick, or are you looking for a pass through modem?
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Thanks.
At the moment I'm just experimenting, to see what 4G performance could be like.
I'm looking at the B535-232 suggested by Alex, although there seems to be lots of Three users reporting problems with it.
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I'm looking at the B535-232 suggested by Alex, although there seems to be lots of Three users reporting problems with it.
Worked absolutely fine for me other than congestion on the tower.
They key with Three is to NOT use 3internet for the APN, there's some weird issue with it that regularly causes packet loss and low speeds, even on 5G. You have to use three.co.uk which goes over their CGNAT platform and doesn't suffer these problems.
Its kinda annoying as its useful that Three issue public IPs on 3internet, but not so much if there is packet loss.
I'd definitely avoid USB dongles as their reception is so much weaker which makes getting the faster bands less likely. Even with the portable hotspot I had, I could get faster speeds sometimes if I put it in exactly the right spot in the house to pickup the faster band, the B535 had no such problem locking onto the faster band anywhere but would perform fastest if placed in the right spots.
Mostly this seems to be down to uploads, you need the unit in the right place so the tower can hear you clearly or you will get low upstream which of course limits the downstream performance.
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Can the ZTE be a PPP-speaking bridge/modem ? Or is it an ethernet-speaking meddling ‘router’ ? ie working at L3.
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Can the ZTE be a PPP-speaking bridge/modem ? Or is it an ethernet-speaking meddling ‘router’ ? ie working at L3.
I'm not sure which ZTE you're talking about, but the MF823 can:
https://support.aa.net.uk/FireBrick_2700_with_4G_ZTE_MF823
But it probably depends on the firmware version - like most things mobile, the firmwares are often customised (locked-down) by the network provider. e.g. the Huawei B535-232 has a bridge mode with the vanilla firmware, but that's disabled in the version sold by Three (if I understand correctly).
They key with Three is to NOT use 3internet for the APN, there's some weird issue with it that regularly causes packet loss and low speeds, even on 5G. You have to use three.co.uk which goes over their CGNAT platform and doesn't suffer these problems.
Thanks - I checked this, and it was using 3internet. I've changed it to three.co.uk and don't really see much difference. I guess it's something I would notice over time with real usage.
I'm now on the lookout for a bargain B535-232 on ebay, which I'll need to power over POE. I don't suppose anyone can confirm the size of the power connector? Googling suggests its 2.1mm.
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But it probably depends on the firmware version - like most things mobile, the firmwares are often customised (locked-down) by the network provider. e.g. the Huawei B535-232 has a bridge mode with the vanilla firmware, but that's disabled in the version sold by Three (if I understand correctly).
Indeed, I have no idea which firmware my B535-232 has (no visible branding) but its missing bridge mode. How cheap are you looking for, I'm thinking of selling mine?
Its why I bought the H122-373 retail from Amazon as that DOES have bridge mode, though I then discovered the problem with the 3internet APN so bridge mode was not useful anyway and all other providers use CGNAT only AFAIK.
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The last two auctions I've been monitoring on ebay have ended at £60 and £56.25, and there is an auction ending shortly where the current bid is £57.80 - so that seems to be the current rates. "buy it now" is at least £79.99.
However, I'm contemplating the jump to 5G myself as well, although something I hadn't realised until today was that the UK networks are using 4G for upload - is that still the case? What kind of upload speeds are you getting?
If I did make the jump to 5G, it would be to increase my upload speeds and perhaps decrease the costs (I currently have two bonded VDSL lines from AAISP, giving me consistent speedtests of around 135/35), and would be using an AAISP L2TP connection for most/all of the traffic.
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That's correct, you should get the same improvement in upload going to the B535-232 but get very little (due to hardware improvements) or no improvement moving to 5G.
On the B535 the average on my Three tower is 6-13Mbit upload, but it depends entirely on your local towers congestion, signal strength and probably also bands in use on that tower. I consistently got 25Mbit on Vodafone to a very close tower, was the one reason I was reluctant to get rid of them.
I'm thinking of holding on to the B535 a bit longer and giving LibaraMobile a shot. https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,26464.0.html
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Thanks. Over the past couple of days, my upload speedtests have been pretty consistent - between about 15Mbits/s and 20Mbits/s, and generally at the higher end of that range. So that's promising at least.
I've also noticed that Three now appear to be selling the ZTE MF286D as their standard 4G router (available for £29 upfront + a one month contract at £30). This is a Cat 12/13 modem, claiming up to 600/100 speeds (compared to 300/100 for the B535). I can't find much info on it, apart from the fact that (as expected) Three have crippled the firmware. A more generic version is available on Amazon for £99.
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I don't think any UK networks are or will ever use the higher speeds. The real improvement you get is merely going to carrier aggregation.
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They key with Three is to NOT use 3internet for the APN, there's some weird issue with it that regularly causes packet loss and low speeds, even on 5G. You have to use three.co.uk which goes over their CGNAT platform and doesn't suffer these problems.
I've just looked at this again, after reading on another forum that you can't change the APN with Smarty - that it ignores and overrides whatever you enter. With both "3internet" and "three.co.uk", I get connected to their CGNAT network (WAN IP in the 10.0.0.0/8 range).
The official APN for Smarty (which their site says you must use for roaming) is "mob.asm.net" - that's also giving me a 10.0.0.0/8 IP.
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I decided to give the ZTE MF286D a try, and bought one from Amazon as the description showed it as a generic model, rather than the version issued by Three.
However, on receiving it, it had the Three logo on the front and whilst there was no branding in the webui itself, the default SSID was prefixed with "Three_" - so presumably it's the Three firmware.
There was no indication in the webui of the bands being used, and no options to restrict the modem to specific bands.
I managed to do two speedtests with it (both around 80/20 with 20ms pings) before it dropped the network connection and has since failed to reconnect.
It's going back to Amazon.
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I'm now the owner of a B535-232 courtesy of ebay. It appears to be a model from Lithuania, coming with an EU plug. It has bridge mode available, and the version information is showing as follows:
Hardware version WL1B535M
Software version 10.0.1.1(H191SP4C983)
Web UI version WEBUI 10.0.1.1(W2SP1C07)
Configuration file version B535-232-CUST 10.0.1.1(C07)
(C) date in the webui is 2017-2019, and there are no updates available for it.
I'm trying it out in an upstairs bedroom at the moment (my previous modem was in the loft).
Stats are showing:
RSRQ -10.0dB
RSRP -73dBm
RSSI >=-51dBm
SINR 11dB
Wireless transmit power PPusch:-10dBm PPucch:-13dBm PSrs:-8dBm PPrach:-16dBm
Uplink mod/demod of MCS mcsUpCarrier1:19
Downlink mod/demod of MCS mcsDownCarrier1Code0:25
mcsDownCarrier1Code1:23
PLMN 23420
Band 20
I've tried a few speedtests, with the following results (ping / download / upload):
28ms 117.97 4.61
28ms 128.36 4.46
39ms 79.21 2.78
29ms 118.83 3.56
So very impressed with the download speed (it seems about 3 or 4 times faster than my previous modem), but not at all impressed with the upload - my previous modem was consistently getting around 15-20Mbits/s.
This is just with the internal antenna at the moment (not even the "bunny ears", which I didn't get).
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I have also been tinkering around with 4G routers and the speed tests which you have posted suggests that you are using an O2 sim. Is that correct?
If so, then I think that your B535 has probably locked on to a tower with Band 40. You can check this in the B535's UI. This band generally appears to have lower upload speeds.
I have been testing 4G routers, B535, in order to replace my 3G USB dongle Huawei B367
When I tried out my B535 on O2 in a crowded area with no direct line of sight of the mast I get about 75 down and 8 up. The B535 was on band 40.
Since the B535 can do carrier aggregation on 2 bands. I set mine to band 1 + band 3 for download and band 1 for upload and got down 50-55 up 15-17 (during the afternoon, probably better after midnight).
I am not sure if you are familiar with it by if you use LTE-H Monitor (free), you can set / lock these bands manually.
In addition, this program will also identify the actual cell that you are connected to and using CellMapper you can see the location of that cell and of all the others around you.
P.S Having tested the 4 major carriers on my B535, EE comes tops (great down great up, pings okish), O2 2nd, Voda poor and Three awful during the day but great if you use it between midnight and 6am!!!
Good Luck
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Thanks, I've been tinkering some more since my last post, and am starting to understand what I'm seeing.
I'm using a Smarty Unlimited SIM (Three's network), and have identified my cell tower in cellmapper. It's broadcasting on bands 1, 3 and 20.
I am using a Macbook, and have found a Python tool (https://github.com/octave21/huawei-lte) which I am assuming does the same job as LTE-H Monitor with regards to band locking. (I haven't yet tried getting LTE-H Monitor running on my Mac).
Am I correct in thinking that carrier aggregation only applies to the download, and the upload will only ever use a single band?
I haven't been able to recreate my 100+ Mbits/s downloads from my first tests last night, but locking to bands 3 (15MHz bandwidth) and 20 (10MHz bandwidth) is giving me the best results, with downloads typically in the 40-100 range, and uploads around 15-25 (but they do seem to be dropping as more people wake up this morning...).
My SINR is typically only around 12-13dB though, so I need to try and find a better location (e.g. in the loft). My previous USB modem was acheiving 4-5dB more than that.
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Could the Three result be due to the popularity of their all-you-can-eat deal? Was that one of the earliest such deals? Anyway, suggests congestion, no? Are you seeing different basestations for the different networks or only the one?
Here comes a completely stupid question: Since I don’t think the Mallaig basestation some way to the south south east of me here in Skye is audible because of the moors in the way, I’m assuming that I only ever have to consider the one basestation to the northeast of me across the glen. That carries EE and Three; I use A&A/AQL/Three on my iPad (terrifyingly expensive per byte) and my wife uses EE (unlimited data) on her iPhone. Will the different networks share the same hardware on that mast, or is that a stupid suggestion? I’m wondering if the performance of networks is similar if they are received from one common basestation?
I told you it was nonsense. ;-)
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Shame you haven't got a decent Vodaphone signal: https://mobile.lebara.com/gb/en/best-sim-only-deals/unlimited-data-plan-25/p/441167
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Yes, I'm sure I am suffering a lot from congestion - I should try some different SIMs. Although when it manages to lock onto the correct combination of bands, speedtests are not dropping much below around 50/10, and are averaging a lot higher. So whilst there is a lot of variation, the minimum seems relatively good.
My mast has three distinct cell IDs:
13002/73 - band 1 (2100MHz - 10MHz bandwidth)
13002/2 - band 3 (1800MHz - 15MHz bandwidth)
13002/8 - band 20 (800MHz - 5MHz bandwidth)
If I combine bands 1 and 3 and it has selected 13002/2 for the upload, then things work the best - around 70 download and 15 upload.
However, if I combine those bands and it has selected 13002/73 for the upload, I get < 10 upload, and also slower downloads.
This seems relatively easy to force though - I just set band 3 first, and then add band 1 to it.
Does anyone know if the lack of upload aggregation is a limitation of the B535, or Three, or both?
Things were simpler with DSL....
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Although your B353 is capable of CA, the network may not.
I know that Three have CA on B1+B20 since I read that on their forum and I have managed to get B3+B20 to work as well.
CA works for downloads only. Usually the first band set is the Primary so set that 1st then the secondary
Try LTE H-Monitor it will accurately tell you which tower you are locked onto.
The Three network around where I live is pooh since it is so cheap and must be well oversubscribed.
Unfortunately, from what I have discovered, getting the best speeds and lowest pings is a matter of trial and error with bands and networks
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Yes, I'm sure I am suffering a lot from congestion - I should try some different SIMs. Although when it manages to lock onto the correct combination of bands, speedtests are not dropping much below around 50/10, and are averaging a lot higher. So whilst there is a lot of variation, the minimum seems relatively good.
My mast has three distinct cell IDs:
13002/73 - band 1 (2100MHz - 10MHz bandwidth)
13002/2 - band 3 (1800MHz - 15MHz bandwidth)
13002/8 - band 20 (800MHz - 5MHz bandwidth)
If I combine bands 1 and 3 and it has selected 13002/2 for the upload, then things work the best - around 70 download and 15 upload.
However, if I combine those bands and it has selected 13002/73 for the upload, I get < 10 upload, and also slower downloads.
This seems relatively easy to force though - I just set band 3 first, and then add band 1 to it.
Does anyone know if the lack of upload aggregation is a limitation of the B535, or Three, or both?
Things were simpler with DSL....
Can you see band 32 on a b535?
My b525 is running modded firmware and I can aggregate band 20+32.
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According to cellmapper my local Three masts are only using bands 1, 3 and 20, so I can't confirm if the B535 supports B32.
A quick google suggests it does, and although it's not in the webui, my B535 does accept B32 if I try and set it via the Python application i'm using. It doesn't connect to anything though (which is as expected).
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According to 4pda: https://4pda.to/forum/index.php?showtopic=979117
Aggregation options for the -232 version:
UL CA: 1C ， 3C ， 7C ， 38C
DL CA: 1C ， 3C ， 7C ， 38C, 3A-3A, 1A-3A ， 1A-7A ， 1A-8A ， 1A-20A ， 1A- 28A ， 3A-7A ， 3A-8A ， 3A-20A ， 3A-28A ， 7A-8A ， 7A-20A ， 7A-28A ， 8A-32A ， 8A-38A ， 20A-32A ， 20A-38A ， 28A-38A
Band 32 is the only aggregate band for band 20 primary, but band 3 can use another band 3 or band 20 or band 28.
Sadly the firmware on that link is not available.
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I'm a bit confused with that list. What is the meaning of "A" and "C" after the band numbers?
Does that mean the B535 can do carrier aggregation for upload, but only within the same band?
When I select band 3 primary and band 1 secondary, I am seeing 4G+ displayed in the webui, and if I select band 3 only, it drops to "4G". Is that confirmation that download aggregation is happening?
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https://www.sqimway.com/lte_ca_band.php
Details on LTE ca band attached, if you choose band 20 do you see 4G+?
CA bandwidth class
ATBC
Aggregated Transmission Bandwidth Configuration
NRB,agg
Number of aggregated resource blocks within the fully allocated Aggregated Channel bandwidth
Class ATBC Maximum
number of CC
NRB,agg MHz
A N <= 100 20 1
B 25 < N <= 100 20 2
C 100 < N <= 200 40 2
D 200 < N <= 300 60 3
E 300 < N <= 400 80 4
F 400 < N <= 500 100 5
I 700 < N <= 800 160 8
Example class A = aggregated Tx BW for Class A cannot be greater than 20MHz, limited to 1 component carrier (CC) in the band
36.331 : The UE shall not transmit the field "Combination Set" for a CA band combination for which the UE only supports Bandwidth Combination Set 0
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If I select band 20 by itself, or 20 + 1, then no - I just see "4G". If I select 20+3 then yes, that's 4G+
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OK, I think I finally understand this. As meritez posted in his list of band combinations, the B535 supports Band 32 (1400/1500MHz) but only when paired with band 20 (800MHz) as the primary (upload) band. This combination is giving between about 80-110Mbits/s downloads, but only about 5Mbits/s upload (band 20 is only 5MHz). I've tested other combinations, and they don't work.
This (B20+B32) seems to be the combination the modem locks onto when in auto mode.
I've also tried bridge mode, and strangely the options in the webui to lock to specific bands (under "Mobile Network Searching") are disabled, and the modem only ever seems to be in "4G" mode, not "4G+", which seems a very strange limitation. Trying to lock the bands via the API appears to crash the device. So I'll be leaving it in router mode.
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That's an impressive speed.
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That's an impressive speed.
For download, yes, but not the upload, which I care about just as much.
Would anyone know if the ability to only aggregate B32 wth B20 is a limitation of my device (B535-232), or is it a limitation of Three (or my particiular mast) ?
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For download, yes, but not the upload, which I care about just as much.
Would anyone know if the ability to only aggregate B32 with B20 is a limitation of my device (B535-232), or is it a limitation of Three (or my particular mast) ?
Bit of both,
Three UK has bands 28, 20, 32, 3 and 1, or 700mhz, 800mhz, 1400mhz, 1800mhz and 2100mhz for 4G
Band 32 is only ever used as an aggregate band by 3 UK, and the B535-232 can only aggregate it with Band 8 or Band 20, and 3 UK does not offer Band 8.
A 3CA device would be able to aggregate band 3+ band 20+ band 32, or band 1+ band 3+ band 32 or band 1+ band 20+ band 32.
Vodafone UK can aggregate Band 8 + Band 32.
The other issue is the B535-232 can only aggregate certain bands on upload:
UL CA: 1C ， 3C ， 7C ， 38CUp Load Carrier Aggregate on 3 UK using the B535-232 is limited to Bands 1 or 3, and for whatever reason the B535 is limited to uploading on the same band it has chosen for primary download.
Where to go, either try a different mobile network, or look for a more powerful device, cat12 as a minimum would be my suggestion.