Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Voice over IP (VoIP) => Topic started by: broadstairs on October 26, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
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Well I've just com off the phone with TT Fibre Sales line and they are saying I cannot have a second contract to my premises to supply FTTP, it's a management decision and a flat no. So I have to go with another ISP to get FTTP if I want to keep my phone number. She did suggest that I re-contract with TT and in a couple of months or so they will be announcing FTTP with VOIP and I could move to that without any fee to leave my new contract, just upgrade. However there is no guarantee what she says is correct and no guarantee they would migrate my existing phone number to their VOIP.
I think their management has made a bad decision as they are forcing existing customers away from their service..
Stuart
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Andrews and Arnold could perhaps port your phone number to VoIP ?
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Andrews and Arnold could perhaps port your phone number to VoIP ?
Any VOIP service could do that but as soon as they do that it terminates my fttc connection!
Stuart
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You cannot have a second contract with the same account email address. I've already mentioned that in previous threads. Their system doesn't allow it.
There's nothing stopping you ordering FTTP data only from Talktalk as a new customer though, even in the exact same name.
Just don't mention you have an existing service when ordering and use a different email address for setting up "My Account".
There's numerous users on the Talktalk forums who have done this.
Their ordering system for FTTP is very new and by default Talktalk attempt a migration of any broadband service at the property.
So anyone who has an existing FTTC or FTTP service (from any provider) who orders Talktalk FTTP will have Talktalk attempt to migrate/take over that broadband service. You need to call Talktalk back up and ask them to manually put the order through as a new provide rather than a migration.
Hopefully they iron out the ordering process soon to allow new provides and services on a multi port ONT.
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The person I spoke with flatly refused to do this.
Stuart
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Any VOIP service could do that but as soon as they do that it terminates my fttc connection!
Stuart
Not sure what your 4G reception is like, but you could pick up a cheap 4G modem, get a monthly SIM and use that in the interim period after transferring your landline number to VOIP. Then take out a new FTTP contract with TT and you now have your original phone number seperated from TT.
Once FTTP is up and running sell the 4G modem and cancel the 4G SIM.
My daughter and her house mates did this recently when they found the broadband suddenly cut off (account was in a previous tenants name) and couldn't get a new connection for some weeks.
The person I spoke with flatly refused to do this.
Stuart
Its called playing the system, you're not meant to tell them ;)
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Its called playing the system, you're not meant to tell them ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Similar to how I have BT Basic but then got a second line from Plusnet, not "technically" something you're supposed to do as BT Basic is meant for people who can barely afford a landline.
I still remember also how I transferred the landline into MY name. Very naughty of them as while I live at the same address, it was in my mums name and they never checked I had her permission.
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I am finding it incredibly frustrating that this is all so difficult to do. Why make it so hard to keep a phone number for a landline. I know many like mobiles but some of use want to be able to keep a home phone and there must be probably between 30 and 60 places I need to inform if we lose our current number and I just don't see why I should have to lose it. TT are far behind the curve with their technology, no IPV6 or VOIP, and they just don't seem to care. Having a second fibre connection technically is no problem at all but they simply don't want to do it. Also I don't really trust them to install a fibre connection along side my fttc one without losing my phone number, they do not have a good reputation for not making c**k ups.
Stuart
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I am finding it incredibly frustrating that this is all so difficult to do.
It isn't difficult.
The issue is simply your provider of choice doesn't sell the product you want.
You need to pick another provider or split the landline number and broadband.
Pick your VOIP provider and migrate the number to them. This needs to be your 1st step if you want to retain the landline number.
As you know it ceases your broadband.
Take Ronskis advice and run a 4G SIM for a month to keep you going while your FTTC is ceased
Order FTTP. Job done.
She did suggest that I re-contract with TT and in a couple of months or so they will be announcing FTTP with VOIP and I could move to that without any fee to leave my new contract, just upgrade.
I'll be amazed if Talktalk residential launch a VOIP offering in the next few months.
They released another new Hub for FTTP customers fairly recently, the Amazon Eero 6 and Eero 6 Pro.
It does not have VOIP ports. They still have not launched a Hub with a VOIP port or to even trial such a service.
The last guy told you they were launching VOIP in August.
One thing the guy on their FTTP phone line did say when I said I needed a phone service as well as FTTP was that this might be available from TT by around August this year, now I don't know if there is any truth in this or whether this was just a sales pitch but just perhaps there is a grain of truth in it albeit VOIP rather that anything which would work in a power cut!
I don't understand why sales staff speculate on that kind of thing.
Large corporations like BT and Talktalk simply don't involve Margaret from sales in discussions on what products they will or won't sell in the future.
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What J0hn said.
If your landline number is important to you, then I would definitely take this opportunity between contracts to separate it from your broadband, porting it to a reputable VOIP provider. You'll then never have this problem again, and have the freedom to choose any ISP, regardless of their VOIP service.
I did this about 10 years ago - when switching ISPs, I installed the new service on a second phone line, then when that was up and running, cancelled my old ISP by porting the number to VOIP. I've ignored the physical landlines ever since.
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Stuart makes a good point about the overcomplexity of keeping a landline number. A would guessimate a significant amount of people still use a landline for making calls.
If its not a straight forward process, even automatic, then joe public is going to struggle big time.
Now I'm at least on a map/list for future FTTP I've started to look in to this issue. If it was my parents having to make this change they wouldn't have a clue.
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Stuart makes a good point about the overcomplexity of keeping a landline number. A would guessimate a significant amount of people still use a landline for making calls.
If its not a straight forward process, even automatic, then joe public is going to struggle big time.
Now I'm at least on a map/list for future FTTP I've started to look in to this issue. If it was my parents having to make this change they wouldn't have a clue.
I think that's the point I was trying to make. It's not that I can't do it - I can - but why should it be complicated. This is something many older folks are going to struggle with in future as the existing copper system is phased out, they simply will not understand what they have to do, and frankly why should they. Many will simply be worried by what they see as something they do not understand or why something which has worked for years for them cannot continue.
I have had a background in technology all my life and am quite capable of doing all this, but if it were left to my wife she would be totally lost. As I get older I am more concerned as to what might happen if I am no longer around and she is left to try to cope. I am having to make sure for example that all our utilities (gas, electricity and water) still have a paper trail to work with, also our banking still has paper statements because if I am not around that is all she will consider using mainly because she feels that a paper document is proof whereas anything online is potentially not true or worse a potential for fraud or scam. To be honest I can see her point of view.
Stuart
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Stuart makes a good point about the overcomplexity of keeping a landline number
The same issue regarding splitting phone numbers from broadband services has existed for over 20 years. This isn't something new related to VOIP or FTTP.
The move to Digital Voice/VOIP is easy to follow. You plug the landline phone in to your router rather than the master socket.
BT even send out a leaflet with diagrams and photographs showing how it's done.
It couldn't be easier.
The only issue is Stuart wants to buy a product that a company doesn't sell any more.
If he simply migrated the landline to an FTTP provider that also sold Voice service then it would go seemlessly.
There are dozens of providers that offer this.
Splitting the landline number from the broadband involves the same additional steps it has done since I got ADSL.
Doing so ceases the broadband and requires either an overlap of services or a short break in service.
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John I think you are missing the point I am trying to make. What about all those pensioners who don't have the internet at home and still rely on a house phone or those technophobes who hate technology and will refuse to give it house room, also the elderly disabled or blind have to be considered? What is going to happen to them when they remove the copper service and how will they cope both with technology which only works if you have power. I know anyone on here is likely to cope very well but there must be 1000s of older folk in that category. I understand there are provisions but they rely on an internet connection and a battery backup which only Virgin so far have said they will provide. What will this cost in comparison to a current phone only used for a few calls? I understand there will be trails but these will only be of use if folks in these categories are included to make sure it supports them as well.
Stuart
I think this is a wider topic and perhaps needs splitting off from this thread? [Moderator: Now Done.]
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The only technophobe I know personally got rid of his landland decades ago, he only (grudgingly) has a dumb mobile phone.
Not that I disagree that it WILL cause issues with some people who DO have them and no wish for broadband. I've also experiences calls to/from VoIP based call centres where the call quality was utter garbage, dropping out, like a bad mobile phone call - not something that happens with POTS. So despite being pro-technology in general, I'm still a VoIP sceptic, not least as if we maintain net neutrality (which we absolutely need) then what's to keep VoIP functional under contention?
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> what’s to keep VoIP functional under contention?
QoS and priority marking, either at L2 or L3 or both, no? I’m pretty sure BT do this, read something somewhere in a BT document, very vague unreliable memory.
AA’s internal network can prioritise customers’ traffic who have paid an extra £10 pm for ‘premium/priority’. So they for example have the technical capability to do QoS or a similar function.
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John I think you are missing the point I am trying to make. What about all those pensioners who don't have the internet at home and still rely on a house phone or those technophobes who hate technology and will refuse to give it house room, also the elderly disabled or blind have to be considered? What is going to happen to them when they remove the copper service and how will they cope both with technology which only works if you have power. I know anyone on here is likely to cope very well but there must be 1000s of older folk in that category. I understand there are provisions but they rely on an internet connection and a battery backup which only Virgin so far have said they will provide. What will this cost in comparison to a current phone only used for a few calls? I understand there will be trails but these will only be of use if folks in these categories are included to make sure it supports them as well.
I think you're doing a disservice to pensioners.
The pensioners I know are capable of plugging a phone from a master socket to a router/hub, especially with illustrated instructions explaining it. If switching to FTTP an engineer will do this for them.
That's a completely different debate to the 1 above. You're going back to the old debate about PSTN closing and having no backup power.
Pardon the pun but that's flogging a dead horse I'm afraid, it's happening and for good reason.
They can't possibly keep a very expensive, outdated telephone network running simply because it works during a powercut.
The majority of the exchanges that power the PSTN network won't exists in the next decade.
Who should pay the billions to extend the leases on these thousands of exchanges for the small number of users who will be impacted.
For the very very small percentage of the population who suffer regular powercuts we have mobile phones.
For anyone with no mobile signal or who is vunerable there is UPS to provide backup power.
Your original gripe was that it was a complicated process to keep your landline number.
That has nothing to do with PSTN closing though.
Since the days of ADSL providers have been free to sell whatever products they wish.
They can sell only a landline. They can sell only broadband. They can sell both. They can let you buy the landline from 1 provider while they provide only broadband on the same pair.
Each provider has been free to choose which of the above they offer to customers.
Talktalk made the decision years ago to only sell Voice+broadband combined and only if you buy both from them. You can't buy just a landline or just broadband from them.
They have now decided to sell FTTP as a data only product and customers are free to change provider.
The issue of splitting your phone number from the broadband has existed for all of that time. It's not new or caused by the PSTN closure.
The average pensioner isn't going to have the dilemma you are facing as they can simply pick a provider that sells both broadband+voice.
Providers automatically label VOIP traffic with an 802.1p marker to prioritize that traffic. During congestion regular packets will be dropped before any VOIP traffic.
I understand people's dislike of change but the PSTN switch off is a necessity that could and probably should already have been done years ago.
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What J0hn said.
And pensioners who are not with it or who have problems will have a neighbour, friend, relative, engineer, social worker or carer to sort them out. My wife’s mum is 95 and she has a mobile phone which she can manage ok. When she loses her analog landline, her phone will just be plugged into some new black box and she won’t know the difference.
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My dad is 78 and it's quite the opposite - he is practically deaf so a landline is pretty useless despite having a loud telephone (It has nearly deafened me on occasion!)
He uses a smartphone with no problem once he's used to it - just takes a bit longer to master a new device should he require one.
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Could your dad use textual messaging services, such as email, SMS, Apple iMessage, FB Messenger, WhatsApp even, if desperate? ;)
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> what’s to keep VoIP functional under contention?
QoS and priority marking, either at L2 or L3 or both, no? I’m pretty sure BT do this, read something somewhere in a BT document, very vague unreliable memory.
AA’s internal network can prioritise customers’ traffic who have paid an extra £10 pm for ‘premium/priority’. So they for example have the technical capability to do QoS or a similar function.
Does that not go against net neutrality though? Though I do think VoIP and gaming traffic SHOULD get priority over downloads, its a slippery slope as we see in the US where ISPs don't bother to upgrade their backhaul, instead throttling peoples usage.
I originally left Plusnet when they started throttling Usenet traffic, they were supposed to do it after x amount of data but the profile got stuck and throttling me 24/7. Fortunately the UK has moved against from that sort of thing particularly as Openreach improved how the backhaul works.
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@Alex I’m not sure I understand your question about net neutrality. This part of the network is strictly AA-internal, and all users have chosen AA as their ISP. They have the choice to get premium/priority or not, which is fantastic - I love having that option. This isn’t about particular non-AA services getting prioritised in a way that users can’t control, as rumour has it in the USA.
Net neutrality AFAIK doesn’t apply to prioritisation for the technical needs of the admins of the networks or for the needs of real-time traffic. I believe the rules actually acknowledge this, no?
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Net neutrality AFAIK doesn’t apply to prioritisation for the technical needs of the admins of the networks or for the needs of real-time traffic. I believe the rules actually acknowledge this, no?
Its always seemed fuzzy about that and as were technically no longer restricted by the EU, this government could probably be persuaded to throw it all in the trash anyway. :(
I've never seen any sort of official guidelines regarding how net neutrality was supposed to be enforced by ISPs.
I mean it could be argued that Zoom calls are essential real-timne communications, yet so many people have problems with them its obviously not getting prioritised. Although I guess half the problem there is if you are the sender its your router that would need to do that, the ISP can only control the other direction.