Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTP Rollout => Topic started by: broadstairs on September 20, 2021, 05:41:03 PM
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I know I will have to move to another ISP as I will require the house phone to continue. The current conundrum is how to connect the phone. My master socket is in an eaves cupboard in the upstairs bedroom and I hope to have this replaced with the ONT in the same place, my phone is downstairs in the kitchen and I have a normal phone extension cable running from the master socket to the kitchen, now my question is can I put a normal phone plug on the end of this cable and plug it into the VOIP socket which I presume will be on the router supplied by the ISP.
That's it for now, sure to be further questions later ;)
Stuart
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The one word answer is "yes".
What I would suggest you consider doing is to disconnect that extension cable from the SSFP and fit a secondary LJU at the end of the cable. Then a short cable, with "BT plugs" at both ends, can link the telephony port of the SSFP to the newly installed LJU thus maintaining the status quo.
When the move to FTTP occurs, just disconnect the plug from the SSFP and insert it into the relevant socket on the ISP/CP provided CPE.
However, although you plan in having the ONT installed in the same location as the NTE5 + SSFP, that may not be the ideal location for the ISP/CP provided router. Hence my above suggestion may not be viable . . .
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I am not in your FTTP situation yet. But I do use V.O.I.P. adapters here plugged into my existing router. I decided to check what would happen if, and when, I required to lose my existing copper BT/Sky phone, by plugging in my wired phone system into one of my existing V.O.I.P. ATA's. All my wired phones worked, including an EXTENSION BELL! perfectly O.K. BUT I did need, in my case, to plug in a broadband filter to provide a bell wire to get some of the older telephones and telephone bell to work. For my test I used an old spare Grandstream 486 ATA, set up as a duplicate Sipgate line for my tests........
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Just to clarify my existing router is in the same room as the eaves cupboard within about 8 to 10 feet in fact and I intend to keep the new one in the same location.
Stuart
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Just to clarify my existing router is in the same room as the eaves cupboard within about 8 to 10 feet in fact and I intend to keep the new one in the same location.
Thank you for the clarification . . . I can now "see" the current configuration.
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My plan is to stay with Zen, then port my number to the AAISP VoIP service. I feel at less risk of losing the number by using a paid service, plus my mum uses the landline when she isn't sure if she has enough credit on her mobile, so having a top-up VoIP service would mean I'd have to remember to keep it topped up which is a PITA.
The rest is easy as I already migrated to a Gigaset N300 IP as we use entirely DECT phones so it will be a slight configuration change and no difference to my mum.
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I know I will have to move to another ISP
Why, who are you with ?.
We have our phone with BT (also still have ADSL2 on that line as well ) But at the moment pay through 'Eclipse' who we are to get rid of soon,
We have our FTTP with the Business side of TrunkNetworks, Full Fibre 100 (they have also normal residential and gaming connections.)
https://www.trunknetworks.com/business-broadband
Because I do not want there 'Free' Fritz 7530 Wireless Router, they have credited the Installation £50 back :)
Also as we are classed as 'vulnerable' at our time of life and have no mobile signal and get power cuts often trunk-networks have supplied me with a 'APC BX500CI' back up power supply Free ;D worth about £96, ready for when we have VOIP.
They have been great and I can recommend them. :thumbs:
as I will require the house phone to continue.
we will.
The current conundrum is how to connect the phone. My master socket is in an eaves cupboard in the upstairs bedroom and I hope to have this replaced with the ONT in the same place, my phone is downstairs in the kitchen and I have a normal phone extension cable running from the master socket to the kitchen, now my question is can I put a normal phone plug on the end of this cable and plug it into the VOIP socket which
Yes but
I presume will be on the router supplied by the ISP.
As far as I know there is No VOIP socket on new routers any more, as others have said you need a ATA box (Analog Telephone Adapter).
I was going to get one of these ,
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/unified-communications/ata-190-series-analog-telephone-adapters/datasheet-c78-739907.html
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As far as I know there is No VOIP socket on new routers any more, as others have said you need a ATA box (Analog Telephone Adapter).
The BT Smart hub 2 supplied when transferring to Digital Voice (BT's proprietary version of VOIP) has an analogue phone socket which can be used instead of the supplied DECT handsets if required.
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As far as I know there is No VOIP socket on new routers any more, . . .
I suspect you are confusing the Openreach provided ONTs with the service providers' routers. It is the ONTs that no longer have telephony ports.
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As far as I know there is No VOIP socket on new routers any more
The fritz.box 7530 has one. It can also act as a DECT base station.
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The fritz.box 7530 has one. It can also act as a DECT base station.
Do we know what NAT speed the 7530 can do? I was curious if Zen were still providing it for FTTP or would upgrade to a higher model?
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BTW, AA offer support for the Gigaset N300 IP should you need it. I have one.
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Do we know what NAT speed the 7530 can do? I was curious if Zen were still providing it for FTTP or would upgrade to a higher model?
Not sure if this helps answer the question.
In some cases these operating modes require special protocol stacks and packet encapsulation as well as additional security mechanisms (NAT, PPP, PPPoE, VLAN, "Stateful Packet Inspection" firewall, port forwarding, traffic shaping, etc.), which reduces the highest possible transmission rate for the "LAN 1" port to an expected rate of about 900 Mbit/s to 940 Mbit/s.
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Its a tad ambiguous but there appears to be reddit posts concurring that yes it does, with the usual consumer router issue of bufferbloat if you max out the line, which fortunately is less likely to happen on Gigabit.
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I've just been told Plusnet dont do FTTP :o is that true.
Stuart
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Plusnet Predicted to Launch FTTP in H2 2021.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/04/broadband-isp-plusnet-uk-predicted-to-launch-fttp-this-summer.html (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/04/broadband-isp-plusnet-uk-predicted-to-launch-fttp-this-summer.html)
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I have been looking round for an ISP to move to and while looking at BT it turns out their Digital Voice service is not available in Thanet as yet, no explanation as to why. They can for now provide FTTP and a landline which P resume will mean maintaining my copper connection, downside I guess will be a cease on my TT connection and could mean we are without broadband while the FTTP install goes ahead.
As an existing EE customer for our mobiles looks quite good but VOIP would be done separately.
One thing I'm not seeing on most websites for FTTP is the amount of data you can download or whether it is unlimited, apart from TT which does say unlimited but again staying with TT means losing my phone number something I cam keen to avoid.
Stuart
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I think you could remain with TalkTalk by following this sequence --
- Take out a new TalkTalk FTTP service whilst retaining your current FTTC service. (I.e. Do not migrate the service.)
- Once the FTTP service is installed and operating satisfactorily port your existing telephone number to, say, Sipgate Basic (https://www.sipgatebasic.co.uk/).
- The FTTC service will then be terminated by virtue of the porting the telephone number.
At worst, you would need to pay for one month of both the FTTP and the FTTC services but you will then retain your telephone number.
[Edited to correct a nonsense sentence.]
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I am thinking I need an ATA when I switch so can anyone here suggest an ATA for my phone from personal experience? I see a lot of companies pushing a Cisco one but what others are suitable for home use?
Stuart
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I have the 2 port Cisco works perfectly and easy to set up.
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I am thinking I need an ATA when I switch so can anyone here suggest an ATA for my phone from personal experience?
I've taken a quick look at a Grandstream HT801 (https://www.grandstream.com/products/gateways-and-atas/analog-telephone-adaptors/product/ht801) and it seems to be a quite suitable device.
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Thank you both, I will take a look at the Grandstream as I had not seen that one, the Cisco I have looked at and was considering it.
Stuart
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I use mine with sipgate basic with number ported.
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One more basic question how many power points do I need where the fibre connection comes in, assuming I do not have the router there as well?
Stuart
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One for the ONT.
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Thanks......
Stuart
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One more basic question how many power points do I need where the fibre connection comes in, assuming I do not have the router there as well?
It really depends where you intend to site the ATA. If you decide to follow the wiring suggestion made in Reply #1 you will then have the opportunity of siting the ATA close to the ONT or close to the router.
Personally, I would ensure that there is a double-gang mains socket at both locations.
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If you have a UPS I would that also for your ATA giving phone and internet during an outage ::) ::)
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Well just to explain a bit. I intend to have the ONT on the eaves cupboard where I had my ISDN connection (so 20 years ago ;) ) and now have my master socket, access is excellent and there is no need to delve into the cupboard. My router will stay where it is and any ATA will be with the router, these will be in the same room as the cupboard and within 10 feet or so of where I want the ONT. So I am planning to put only one socket back where it used to be for ISDN. If the OR guy is unwilling to place the ONT in the cupboard it could be placed on the wall in the same room where there are sockets but a hole would need to be drilled into the eaves where the cable must enter and that would need someone to climb intt the cupboard to feed the cable through! We both have mobiles so I will not be having a UPS at least initially.
Stuart
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I've just been told Plusnet dont do FTTP :o is that true.
Stuart
True - but when I moved to BT FTTP they waived the cancellation charge....
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I've changed my plans slightly for my install next week. It does raise a question though. Since my install will be from a pole I am wondering exactly where the external box might go.
The entry point for the cable into the house is just above floor level on the first floor so it enters the bedroom where the internal box will be. Does this box have to be at ground level?
Placing it on the front wall below where the cable from the pole is fixed on the house is a no-no, it will be too easily damaged as the path across the front of the house is too narrow, it's only just wide enough when our shopping order comes on a sack barrow that even a couple of centimetres sticking out will almost certainly get damaged plus running the wire down the front round the ground floor windows and back up to the entry point for the bedroom will look ugly.
Ideally I would want it placed round the side of the house behind the side gate where it will be not visible and protected by a small buttress which supports the gate and cannot easily be damaged, this however means a longer cable run down to the box and back up to where it enters the house.
Is this feasible or am I expecting too much?
Stuart
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For my FTTP install via OH;
Telegraph pole is on other side of street, fibre optic cable was fed along existing copper line to hook support at first floor, cable was then routed straight down to a grey Openreach panel, and then cable was routed under bay window and neatly drilled above the Virgin Media Socket point.
So my external FTTP install cabling is in a L/J-shape, the cabling to the grey panel needs to be straight, but the other stuff is quite flexible for install.
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So my external FTTP install cabling is in a L/J-shape, the cabling to the grey panel needs to be straight, but the other stuff is quite flexible for install.
That's my issue it cannot be straight, its not possible as there is a wide window to the porch directly below the side of the house where the current copper is attached so there is no way the new cable can come down straight plus the wall below the window is single skin so drilling through to mount the box is likely to go through to the inside.
Stuart
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The grey panel is the Customer Splice Point - this is where the cable from the OH feed is spliced to the cable that eventually enters your house.
The Engineer can run cable from the CSP to a convenient entry point. There is a limit to the amount they will/can provide.
The cable is then attached to the ONT- the modem, which then connects by ethernet to your router.
So - I would work backwards. Decide where you would like your router to be. This will then dictate feasible positions for the ONT, which will dictate where the cable entry point is which will dictate where the CSP might be which will dictate how the OH cable is routed.
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The grey panel is the Customer Splice Point - this is where the cable from the OH feed is spliced to the cable that eventually enters your house.
The Engineer can run cable from the CSP to a convenient entry point. There is a limit to the amount they will/can provide.
The cable is then attached to the ONT- the modem, which then connects by ethernet to your router.
So - I would work backwards. Decide where you would like your router to be. This will then dictate feasible positions for the ONT, which will dictate where the cable entry point is which will dictate where the CSP might be which will dictate how the OH cable is routed.
That's what Ive done and to start there is no alternative to where the ONT goes. The ONT has to go where I've planned because that is the only place close enough to 2 mains power points upstairs, its the problem living in a 100 year old house!.
That's the problem because although it is very close to the current copper cable mounting point the issue is the large porch window below it which precludes a straight run down to the CSP, there is no way the CSP can be mounted below this current attachment in a straight line. Together with the fact that the current path in front of the porch is not wide enough to allow space for the CSP anyway - it WILL GET DAMAGED.
Stuart
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So if the CSP is placed near where the current copper is mounted, the ongoing cable is flexible enough to be routed down around the porch window and enter the house after that. That would still leave the narrow space issue possibly.
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No the ONT inside is upstairs. I was told the CSP has to be at ground level.
Stuart
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No the ONT inside is upstairs. I was told the CSP has to be at ground level.
Stuart
Oh okay - not sure why that should be the case but if thems the rules then them is the rules.
Certainly worth asking the attending engineer,
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See https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/Does-FTTP-require-2-engineer-visits/td-p/1849215 (https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/Does-FTTP-require-2-engineer-visits/td-p/1849215)
Fourth post.
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Oh okay - not sure why that should be the case ...
I assume because they don't want to be trying to splice fibre whilst on a ladder.
:)
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As far as I am aware, there have been three methods of optical fibre installation into the end-users premises.
- With an external customer splice point and requiring a fusion splice to join the external and internal fibre cables.
- With an internal customer splice point and requiring a fusion splice to join the external and internal fibre cables.
- Without a customer splice point and requiring the field-fitting of an SC/APC connector.
If I am remembering correctly, j0hn's FTTP installation was of the third kind.
Either the second or third type of installation would be suitable for Stuart's situation.
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I have been getting texts from BT but none suggest a rwo stage install.
Stuart
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I have been getting texts from BT but none suggest a rwo stage install.
Those text messages will be from a department of BT Consumer and not Openreach. Who does the actual, physical, installation? (Rhetorical question.)
So my real question is: "Which entity do you think I would be more inclined to believe?" . . . ;)
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Oh mine is definitely the 1st option of install.
The OR engineer has been up a telegraph pole, splicing fibre up a ladder is child's play in comparison :lol:
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I can only go by what I'm told.
Stuart
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Learning from the relatively recent FTTC/FTTP upgrade on my sisters BB remaining with BT as ISP.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,26339.msg441623.html#msg441623
Make sure you end up with the modem/router where you want/need it to be either by virtue of close proximity to the ONT or having a suitable ethernet inter-connection available especially if you are depending on Wi-Fi coverage as most users do now.
I fully appreciate that you are very likely much more technically informed than my sister or brother-in-law and would be unlikely to end up in a similar situation to the quoted scenario, however, it would appear that once a "working" installation (as tested at the ONT) is completed then it is very difficult (in my sisters case impossible) to get OR (or their designated sub-contractors) to rectify any perceived issues.