Kitz Forum
Announcements => News Articles => Topic started by: Bowdon on July 29, 2021, 11:24:37 AM
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I'm kinda surprised by this. But it looks like VM have announced their intension to upgrade from DOCSIS 3.1 to FTTP instead of DOCSIS 4.
From reading the article I linked it looks more a move to attract ISP's to their planned wholesale idea.
Virgin Media O2 to Upgrade Existing UK Network with Full Fibre
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/07/virgin-media-o2-to-replace-existing-uk-network-with-full-fibre.html (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/07/virgin-media-o2-to-replace-existing-uk-network-with-full-fibre.html)
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Possibly not. CarlT is the man with the knowledge in this area... but for future proofing its possibly best doing it now rather than later.
DOCSIS still has some mileage in it, there's still things like the limited upstream and that the not so simple upgrade to DOCSIS4 so money better spent upgrading & future proofing to PON/GPON. With broadband speeds rapidly increasing I think it's wise to look at the options to decide if HFC is nearing the point to call it a day and make the inevitable step to full fibre. We've already eked about all that we can out of DSL... going back several years ago it looked like Openreach was going to push DSL a bit further with FTTdp and/or g.fast at the DP, but they scrapped those plans and now seem to be concentrating on FTTH.
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XGSPON, wholesale.
VM conducted trials in Manchester and elsewhere and, in a number of areas, costs of HFC upgrade came in the same ball park as FTTP. The new kit going out in the field can both provide extra HFC capacity and FTTP services.
Customers moving to FTTP has the bonus of relieving load on the HFC network, too.
So this saves capacity upgrades on the HFC and the more comprehensive upgrades needed to provide the upload speeds customers will expect in the not too distant.
Improves reliability as no RF noise ingress and makes a wholesale offering, imminent, much easier too.
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Its really fascinating to look at this compared to say the US where many if not most areas are pretty much a monopoly and so have zero interest in offering wholesale services.
It just goes to show that Capitalism CAN work, if regulated properly. I'm saying this as someone who DOES believe telecoms should have remained nationalised (if properly run and funded) but I think were at the second-best thing right now, so long as the government doesn't allow all these new wholesale providers to merge later on.
Basically you need a balance of Socialist and Capitalist ideas so that everyone is taken care off. (sadly this balance is not being maintained so well in other essential services)
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Very interesting, so in Leicester maybe 2 FTTP networks now given VM has a massive presence here.
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Indeed, both wholesaling. Openreach will make it three.
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In case you missed it: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/12/virgin-media-o2-name-trial-cities-for-uk-fttp-broadband-upgrade.html
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Also happening outside of those areas mentioned in the ISPR story. Can be spotted easily enough - contractors installing subduct into existing plant and the very occasional new cabinet.
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> It just goes to show that Capitalism CAN work, if regulated properly. I'm saying this as someone who DOES believe telecoms should have remained nationalised (if properly run and funded) but I think were at the second-best thing right now, so long as the government doesn't allow all these new wholesale providers to merge later on.
I too believe that the equivalent of an Openreach should have remained nationalised.
But customers of all types should be allowed to buy some unusual type of ‘shares’ that would eventually grant you a seat in the board. Such shares should be limited to a certain fraction.
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> It just goes to show that Capitalism CAN work, if regulated properly. I'm saying this as someone who DOES believe telecoms should have remained nationalised (if properly run and funded) but I think were at the second-best thing right now, so long as the government doesn't allow all these new wholesale providers to merge later on.
I too believe that the equivalent of an Openreach should have remained nationalised.
But customers of all types should be allowed to buy some unusual type of ‘shares’ that would eventually grant you a seat in the board. Such shares should be limited to a certain fraction.
Somebody is apparently trying that tact with BT.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/11/is-bt-the-next-british-company-in-line-for-a-takeover
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Customers can buy shares that give voting rights including election of board members. A seat on the board for owning a share couldn't work.
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@Black Sheep - Damn, someone has stolen my idea already! ;)
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Its really fascinating to look at this compared to say the US where many if not most areas are pretty much a monopoly and so have zero interest in offering wholesale services.
It just goes to show that Capitalism CAN work, if regulated properly. I'm saying this as someone who DOES believe telecoms should have remained nationalised (if properly run and funded) but I think were at the second-best thing right now, so long as the government doesn't allow all these new wholesale providers to merge later on.
Basically you need a balance of Socialist and Capitalist ideas so that everyone is taken care off. (sadly this balance is not being maintained so well in other essential services)
Absolutely spot on. Couldn't agree more.
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@Black Sheep - Damn, someone has stolen my idea already! ;)
;D ;D
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It just goes to show that Capitalism CAN work, if regulated properly. I'm saying this as someone who DOES believe telecoms should have remained nationalised (if properly run and funded) but I think were at the second-best thing right now, so long as the government doesn't allow all these new wholesale providers to merge later on.
It also means that some people are just going to get left out because there is no profit to be had.
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It also means that some people are just going to get left out because there is no profit to be had.
There will always be 'losers' (if you will), in any kind of capitalist venture, especially one with geographical size we're talking about, in this particular topic.
:)
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Government programs should sort those that the private sector will not cover. They will not have as many options as many others. This is much the same as now with regards to things from Internet access to public transport.
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Will people using the current DOCSIS 3.1 connection feel any difference in VM changing the network to FTTP?
Will it help with congestion or give VM more technical detail to enable them to fix problems faster?
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Will people using the current DOCSIS 3.1 connection feel any difference in VM changing the network to FTTP?
I've already got Virgin "FTTP".
It's DOCSIS 3.1 using RFOG (Radio Frequency Over Glass) and it's pretty much the exact same as HFC (coax) DOCSIS 3.1.
It's when that's changed to XGS-PON that a difference will be noticeable. Latency should drop and the DOCSIS jitter should be gone.
I don't know if there current programme upgrading HFC areas to FTTP is going straight to XGS-PON or not. I would assume it is. It makes little sense installing equipment to replicate what's already available.
Also happening outside of those areas mentioned in the ISPR story. Can be spotted easily enough - contractors installing subduct into existing plant and the very occasional new cabinet.
Do you know if any of this live with XGS-PON? If so how are they choosing what customers get moved over and are the packages/upload the same?
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I noticed Virgin Media popped up on one.network for the end of my street where there is no Virgin Media presence. Strange thing is it appears to be one side of the road to the other (via OR ducting), the other being where an O2/Vodafone mast is located which I'm fairly sure its fibre comes up that other side of the street, so really puzzled what this is about.
Could they be planning to extend their network to this end of the street as part of this rollout (the other end HAS VM boxes) to compete with Openreach and CityFibre?
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Will people using the current DOCSIS 3.1 connection feel any difference in VM changing the network to FTTP?
Will it help with congestion or give VM more technical detail to enable them to fix problems faster?
Docsis (at least the way VM use it with minimal investment) seems too prone to congestion, the time slot system in my area leaves constant jitter as well even off peak.
Docsis also seems to need loads of lead time for capacity upgrades, I dont know if thats a problem with the tech (node split) or again thats just down to ntl/VM dragging their feet.
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A degree of jitter is a fact of life with cable.
Overbuild works are in progress nationwide.