Kitz Forum
Announcements => News Articles => Topic started by: gt94sss2 on June 24, 2021, 10:04:51 AM
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OR has added 551 new UK cities and towns to the rollout plan for their gigabit-capable Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) broadband ISP network. The latest batch of locations accounts for a total of 5 million extra premises, all of which will be upgraded as part of their £15bn project to cover 25 million premises by December 2026.
Virtually all of today’s additions are focused on urban or suburban areas, stretching from Bournemouth, in Dorset, Dunfermline, in Scotland, Kettering, in the East Midlands, to Sunderland in the North East, and Wrexham, in Wales.
The updated list (which is not 100% of their rollout) is here (https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/images/transparency/Openreach_Full_Fibre_Build_Programme_24_June_2021_V1.pdf)
It also includes slightly more detail on expected build timelines.
ISP Review article (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/06/openreach-adds-551-uk-locations-to-fttp-broadband-rollout.html)
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FTTP is creeping towards my area. One of the big towns next to me, Rochdale, is now on the list, as well as the other sub exchanges of Heywood and Littleborough.
I'm not sure if my exchange will eventually come under Rochdale or Oldham. I'm thinking Oldham as though I've got a Rochdale area code the exchange post code is in Oldham.
I wonder if these lists are coming out once a month?
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Openreach added 551 locations for FTTP including Telford between 2021 and 2026:
Telford and Wrekin Dawley Yes
Telford and Wrekin Hollinswood Yes
Telford and Wrekin Newport Yes
Telford and Wrekin Oakengates Yes
Telford and Wrekin Cuckoo Oak is left out between 2021-2026 – I am fuming! I hate you Openreach!
After 12 months contract has expired, I will downgraded to FTTC 40/10 and stay there forever! I don't care anymore as I hate internet now. :D
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They have made a right balls up of the map update, locations where a build was starting or underway now lumped back into the by 2026 category. Areas just announced by 2025 talk about vague...
It would be nice if the map was more accurate, I appreciate the need for commercial sensitivity and all that but please; its 2021 Openreach are the major player and I doubt they have to worry too much about being overbuilt or gazumped - the bit players will be amalgamated or acquired as the rollout progresses.
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After 12 months contract has expired, I will downgraded to FTTC 40/10 and stay there forever! I don't care anymore as I hate internet now. :D
Used to be indecisive.......
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They have made a right balls up of the map update, locations where a build was starting or underway now lumped back into the by 2026 category.
I was just about to post that something weird has happened with the map.
This area is mostly done and available, but now the whole area is showing in red (2026).
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Used to be indecisive.......
I only joking! ;D ;D Course I am happy with my G.fast still stable 221/30 no issues!
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Could be better, could be worse. Good to see some of my local city on the build.
Various exchanges have appeared on this list having had build going on for some time, too, so fair to say Openreach build first in some cases. Hunslet is at >25% FTTP availability and will be complete this year despite the timescales there, Rothwell is advanced.
No-one despair just yet.
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Wahey, Wandsworth!
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Wahey, Wandsworth!
Marple now added to the list for April 2024, although its parent fibre exchange, Woodley, was on the previous list, so maybe a not totally unexpected surprise. :thumbs: :fingers:
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Finally OR added my exchange into the by 2024 list so in the last month I've had CityFibre announce, and now OR :lol:
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Nothing for me here in deepest darkest Wiltshire. I think I'm stuck with 40Mbps FTTC for ever. :'(
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Utterly ludicrous - Still nothing for my area , all the noise , threats, screaming, shouting and blackmail (pre Openreach) BT used to prevent Telewest and others from laying their own infrastructure and yet they do and did nothing. How is countries like Japan, America can and have delivered gigabit place to the household and yet Openreach cant.
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I think "slightly more detail on expected build timelines" is being a bit optimistic: 21/22 - 23/24 :lol:
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My town not listed, although the map shows build in progress and much activity by “Light Source”
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How is countries like Japan, America can and have delivered gigabit place to the household and yet Openreach cant.
As a telecomms guy with 30 years experience I'm sure you'll appreciate that there is no reason for Openreach to prioritise a random Essex village in their deployment.
They'll get to it when they get to it. Presumably via other nearby villages.
There are a bunch of exchanges in cities with no plans right now. What in your 30 years experience entitles Hockley to FTTP while exchanges in Darlington, Telford, Wakefield and other large towns and cities are not announced?
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Utterly ludicrous - Still nothing for my area , all the noise , threats, screaming, shouting and blackmail (pre Openreach) BT used to prevent Telewest and others from laying their own infrastructure and yet they do and did nothing. How is countries like Japan, America can and have delivered gigabit place to the household and yet Openreach cant.
You are being optimistic there. I have a friend in Texas and his parents have only just gotten FTTC at 13Mbit. They also claim "unlimited" but in the small print it says they have a data cap and charge $10/50GB for going over it - while not mentioning what that cap even is.
Also if you followed Louis Rossman you'd have seen how bang in the middle of New York is a lottery which service you can get, the abysmal useless one he couldn't even livestream from, or the superfast fibre.
Japan is even crazier, have you seen how small their apartments are? THAT'S why its so easy for them, their population density is insane but its like living in a cardboard box.
The grass may appear greener on the other side of the fence, but only because someone painted it and it hasn't rained yet. ::)
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The really depressing thing about every story like this is the piling in from people who think nothing is happening if they, personally, aren't benefiting, and that they should somehow have priority.
Even funnier when you've people who are in villages and have Virgin Media but think it absurd they aren't on the immediate list. Not in a major urban conurbation, have access to ultrafast so way better off than people stuck on ADSL or FTTC, but they simply must be a priority over both.
Egocentrism.
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I think with the exception of the few like Carl and Alex, no one has any idea of the size of the task to enable even a small town. I couldn’t even think how it’s done logistically, never mind on a national basis. I think the speed of roll out is really impressive, it’s not just the money, but the Tecnical experience required.
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The area I'm in (Newport, Shropshire) has been included, by April 2025. Be nice to have a bit of competition for Virgin, the network was a bit ropey the last time I was with them. Might of improved in the last 3 years.
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I think with the exception of the few like Carl and Alex, no one has any idea of the size of the task to enable even a small town. I couldn’t even think how it’s done logistically, never mind on a national basis. I think the speed of roll out is really impressive, it’s not just the money, but the Tecnical experience required.
I might have a small idea myself ... ;) ;D
We get regular communications on how our FTTP roll out is going ... and also the competitions figures as well.
What I like about some of these snippets of info is, they tend to apply layman's terms to them by giving comparisons to something tangible. For example - they may say 'we've lain 100,000km of fibre cable which is a quarter of the way to the Moon' - stuff like that (pedants - this is MY example, not OR's).
Well, there was something a month or so back explaining that this was one of the largest engineering projects (or something along those line), the UK has seen regarding telecoms. I wish I could remember exactly what it was !! :-[
Point being - Carl has hit the nail squarely on the head with his comments. The naivety of some people is %$£$$%&$ astounding !!
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Sorry @bs of course :-\
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Sorry @bs of course :-\
Ha ha - not answering any of your PM's ever again !! :P
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I think with the exception of the few like Carl and Alex, no one has any idea of the size of the task to enable even a small town. I couldn’t even think how it’s done logistically, never mind on a national basis. I think the speed of roll out is really impressive, it’s not just the money, but the Tecnical experience required.
Agreed, although I think you under estimated those who do appreciate the mammoth task. Due to current circumstance, I may not be on the ball with current figures... but some of us here are original broadband campaigners who got heavily involved with the roll out of adsl so do have an inkling of how large a project this is. I'm not alone and it may be because we aren't shouting the loudest.
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What is also not often mentioned is that when quoting speeds achieved in the East Asian countries, they are usually only in urban areas, move away from the cities, then things are way worse that in the UK. So whilst they may be able to claim what look like blistering speeds, it may not be that nationally. The stats all depended and varied on who was measuring (ie speedtesters), what they were showing the results as (top/median), and how many speed tests from that country (more results=better accuracy) and if you take into account how accessible broadband was across that particular country.
I've seen various figures touted around such as UK average speed now averaging at something around 140Mbps mostly in part because they were from VM users. I'm sure I saw something this year which averaged us at around 20Mbps... but for now I'll stick with the OFCOM 71Mbps (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/12/ofcom-see-average-uk-broadband-isp-speeds-rise-to-71-8mbps.html) from last Nov. There was even one report where we ranked 6th possibly because more homes with broadband connectivity.
Whatever, we do seem to be rising steadily up the ranks over the past year.. and hopefully this will continue. I am fairly impressed at the number of homes Openreach and the ALTnets are managing to pass each month.
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@kitz. I apologise for being so specific, but recently the sensible comments came from those I mentioned of course many others will appreciate the mammoth task. I was just wanting to support the view that OR are not rubbish but are very effective in rolling this out.
Apologies again to any I might of offended.
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nps... I knew what you meant and I was laughing when I made my reply :D
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Something still puzzles me so any thoughts appreciated...
Been longing for fttp as stuck on eci.. anyway my query is as follows.
I live in an urban area and see no mention of my exchange being upgraded in any of the published fttp rollout guides. The openreach map shows nothing yet when I input my postcode into the availability checker I get the message we are starting to build ultrafast broadband in your area. Register to keep informed of progress which I did.
So why can't I find my exchange in the lists?
Be overjoyed if it happens but just seems a bit odd..
Thanks
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I got that response and about 6 months later work started. No idea when it will be finished although I’ve been told this year by helpful kitzens
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Not all rollouts are shown on that map. - That site doesnt show some of the more rural projects such as BDUK, infills and retro builds.
My own town didn't appear on that particular list, but its now mostly been done and dusted. We are urban, but we were tied in together with a couple of rural towns on the other side of the river, which is still a work in progress.
g3uiss is quite near to me... and even nearer to the aforementioned rural exchanges. No idea if his (urban) town has also benefited from the same development too. To some, it may seem odd that work is being done on our exchanges and before that of a large and quite prominent town nearby.
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Thanks. I can understand the map not being accurate but the published roll out lists not listing it just seems odd...
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@kitz. I apologise for being so specific, but recently the sensible comments came from those I mentioned of course many others will appreciate the mammoth task. I was just wanting to support the view that OR are not rubbish but are very effective in rolling this out.
Apologies again to any I might of offended.
Wait, am I being accused of making sensible comments? That's gotta be a first for me.
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As unhappy as I am I do recognise Openreach cannot be everywhere at the same time and as Carl stated there is cities including the 11th biggest in the country that have no openreach FTTP plans.
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Curious why say Farnham isn’t covered, yet Haslemere is
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The really depressing thing about every story like this is the piling in from people who think nothing is happening if they, personally, aren't benefiting, and that they should somehow have priority.
It's disappointment knowing that one might be waiting another FIVE years before something decent comes to your area. I've been on 80/20 FTTC for 9 years now (I think I went from 40/10 to 80/20 in 2012!). I could be stuck on the same speeds/tech for another 5, making it 14 years in total. Which is a lifetime in technology terms.
What's more irritating is the fact that accurate information is so hard to come by. Announcements are made in typically cryptic format and Openreach never respond to any queries. It's always a boilerplate "we cannot comment on specific rollout plans" type thing. Don't we have a right to know when we might get a technology that can improve the way we use the internet? Is it so unnatural to be jealous/upset that you have been left behind? I live in a small historic city not too far from Salisbury, which has blanket FTTP coverage. Not exactly out in the sticks.
Also you have 2 gigabit circuits at your home so comments like this can come across as really hurtful/smug.
Even funnier when you've people who are in villages and have Virgin Media but think it absurd they aren't on the immediate list. Not in a major urban conurbation, have access to ultrafast so way better off than people stuck on ADSL or FTTC, but they simply must be a priority over both.
I can't get VM. I get (just) full speeds on 80/20 but that could change. In the 9 years we've had 80/20, the way we use the internet has exploded and we are finding it limiting now. The prospect of being stuck on ancient tech for another 5 years is a real problem for some.
Egocentrism.
It really isn't.
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Also, Winchester is on the PDF but the exchange name is listed as Whiteley so that appears to be an error. And indeed, the map supports that (areas around Whiteley exchange have gone yellow).
https://api.superfastmaps.co.uk/fibrecities/2.0/
Ah well.
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You are being optimistic there. I have a friend in Texas and his parents have only just gotten FTTC at 13Mbit. They also claim "unlimited" but in the small print it says they have a data cap and charge $10/50GB for going over it - while not mentioning what that cap even is.
Also if you followed Louis Rossman you'd have seen how bang in the middle of New York is a lottery which service you can get, the abysmal useless one he couldn't even livestream from, or the superfast fibre.
Japan is even crazier, have you seen how small their apartments are? THAT'S why its so easy for them, their population density is insane but its like living in a cardboard box.
The grass may appear greener on the other side of the fence, but only because someone painted it and it hasn't rained yet. ::)
Hockley is not small (well 26000+ may not qualify ?) It lies between 2 other towns of similar size - both on the roadmap (you need to go through Hockley to get to either of these and there is fibre as a recent housing estate at the end of my road has FTTP - the fibre is ducted in the footpath outside of my house).
My local exchange is over subscribed and there are no plans (unless joe public is prepared to pay for the upgrade)
I'm not having a "pop" at the guys on the ground (the real people) but the politics and bureaucracy that is in effect.
I have spent 34 years plus dealing with B.T/Openreach/VMB/Colt/Verizon et al - The engineers for the most part are very good and generally dont cause any cause for complaint.
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If this helps in any way (I doubt it - but hey ho) .... my own area isn't on any plans to be upgraded up to 2026.
That's as it stands at the minute though. As I've mooted many time before, the FTTP roll-out is a forever changing animal and if the funds and resources are increased again, then the chances are more Exchanges will come into scope ??
I think folk need to try and appreciate the scale and size of not only the engineering tasks itself in providing a complete new infrastructure nationwide ... but also the decision making that goes hand in hand with that !!
We're all football managers of course and could do better than Gaz Southgate .... it's the same here, a few folk are budding FTSE100 Chairmen without one idea of what goes into creating a FTTP network. Just because 'my town is bigger than your town' doesn't mean it's a given you should get FTTP first.
Far wiser people than me have pointed out how some of the decision making is probably made (all guesswork, unless there's a OR board director amongst us ??), based around current speeds etc etc.
But there's far more factors at play including head-end capacity, spine capacity, historic fault volumes ..... surely if you were CEO and had made a commitment to the government who are part subsidising this build, that you will deliver 'x' amount of THP by 'x' date ... then would you not then check which Exchanges are going to be practical to build within that time-frame. Or would you use the chicken-bones on the table approach to see what they tell you to do next ??
There's always going to be winners and losers however it's divvied up ... I'm in the latter at present and on a 55Mbps connection. I'll survive.
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My approach to getting FTTP was a bit extreme but did come with a house included.
Thought I'd add a bit of whimsy to try and calm things. 100% get people's disappointment but still relatively early days in the grand scheme and, of course, unlike in the past many others are building. FTTC it was wait as neither the cable company or other networks were being built. Now VMO2 and others are throwing billions at both new network and upgrades.
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If this helps in any way (I doubt it - but hey ho) .... my own area isn't on any plans to be upgraded up to 2026.
That's as it stands at the minute though. As I've mooted many time before, the FTTP roll-out is a forever changing animal and if the funds and resources are increased again, then the chances are more Exchanges will come into scope ??
Indeed. We live in hope.
I think folk need to try and appreciate the scale and size of not only the engineering tasks itself in providing a complete new infrastructure nationwide ... but also the decision making that goes hand in hand with that !!
I understand to an extent, hence why better transparency around the decision making would help a great deal. The government's plan/target is to deliver gigabit capable broadband to 85% of premises by 2025. The remaining 15% are, the way I understood it, hard to reach areas making it economically challenging. It now looks like that date has already slipped and vast areas are not even included in the plan for 2026!
Just because 'my town is bigger than your town' doesn't mean it's a given you should get FTTP first.
That's not what I'm saying at all. But to get excluded with no explanation whatsoever stings.
Appreciate the response, BS.
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I can't get VM. I get (just) full speeds on 80/20 but that could change. In the 9 years we've had 80/20, the way we use the internet has exploded and we are finding it limiting now. The prospect of being stuck on ancient tech for another 5 years is a real problem for some.
You've had 80/20 for 9 years, you're VERY lucky, some peoples lines have halved in speed over that time period.
In that time I've had 40, 60, 99, 4, 80, 70, 67 and the hassle of changing ISP several times. (you should look for my saga trying to get back on Openreach after Digital Region closed down, that was not fun)
I've ended up paying for a second line to get speeds slightly faster than I had in 2013 with a single line, getting 4G to push my combined speed up to 220Mbit on a good day but with the added complexity that entails.
Now granted, I'm mostly stuck in the house 24/7 due to health issues so I have a lot of time to figure stuff out. But there comes a point where you have to take some accountability yourself, if you need higher speeds, you pay the price and complexity to get it. Its really hard to have any sympathy knowing all the trouble Weaver has to go to get a barely functional service.
Don't get me wrong, I'm angry, not at Openreach but at Digital Region for completely squandering their position as the first FTTC in the area, I was on their 99/35 service in 2013 and perfectly happy with it. I'm angry at VM who posted a flyer saying they would do my area soon, only to them abandon this end of the street. Even though I know FTTP is coming to my area now, I'm not happy they aren't being transparent. But I'm also thankful I'm not stuck on ADSL. Its important to keep some perspective.
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Though I'm puzzled as to the order of the FTTP rollout, I think it should be added that the rate that FTTP becomes available to premises is also increasing.
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The problem is we can't see the economics of it all. What might seem a no-brainer could involve a lot more red tape with closing roads, disrupting pavements, wayleaves, blocked ducts, etc.
Also I've seen a few jobs show up on one.network in my notification e-mail, only for the links to say "the item was deleted". Which shows just how in flux everything is.
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There are some bizarre decisions.
Alton yet no Farnham? No Winchester? No Farnborough?
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The problem is we can't see the economics of it all. What might seem a no-brainer could involve a lot more red tape with closing roads, disrupting pavements, wayleaves, blocked ducts, etc.
Also I've seen a few jobs show up on one.network in my notification e-mail, only for the links to say "the item was deleted". Which shows just how in flux everything is.
Here speaks wisdom.
The only 'bizarre decisions', are actually down to individuals own decision making - based upon how they think FTTP should be rolled out.
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Why is it bizarre?
If they did all the large populated areas 1st then everyone in rural areas would complain.
So they added 227 rural/semi-rural areas.
Then people complain why are these rural areas being done before x & y urban areas.
You can't please everyone.
They can't cover everywhere at the same time so someone is going to have to wait whatever happens.
As already mentioned the list of areas provided so far isn't everywhere that will be done by 2025.
Indeed. We live in hope.
I understand to an extent, hence why better transparency around the decision making would help a great deal. The government's plan/target is to deliver gigabit capable broadband to 85% of premises by 2025. The remaining 15% are, the way I understood it, hard to reach areas making it economically challenging. It now looks like that date has already slipped and vast areas are not even included in the plan for 2026!
You seem to be mixing 2 completely different things there.
The government's 85% gigabit target is not the OpenReach FTTP rollout.
That 85% target includes Virgin Media. That's 50% of the country effectively already ticked.
By the time you add OpenReach FTTP and what CityFibre will have done then that target isn't as ambitious as it sounds.
80% will be reached with commercial rollouts alone, without any government funding or intervention.
The government's target is to help with the other 5%, leaving 15% with no gigabit coverage.
Boris's target was originally 100% full fibre. Then it was watered down to 100% gigabit capable (to include Virgin).
Then it was watered down to 80%, then up to 85%
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Yeah they cant be everywhere, I think we all know deep down, there is political intervention on the openreach rollout, A fully commercial rollout wouldnt be going to villages with a few thousand people, there is no business case.
The UK thanks to the intervention probably has one of the best rural high speed internet coverage in the world.
This intervention ultimately means they wont rollout to as many commercial areas as quickly. So they are compromised.
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It's odd Frensham is on there as I thought Frensham's head-end was Farnham.
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They can't cover everywhere at the same time so someone is going to have to wait whatever happens.
I get that. But in some cities, there are 4 different providers rolling out fibre simultaneously. It's stuff like this that doesn't make sense (to me, a novice). I'm no expert at any of this stuff, all I'm trying to do is make sense of this rollout programme based on published news. I wish people would take a moment to appreciate that before having a go.
As already mentioned the list of areas provided so far isn't everywhere that will be done by 2025.
True.
You seem to be mixing 2 completely different things there.
The government's 85% gigabit target is not the OpenReach FTTP rollout.
That 85% target includes Virgin Media. That's 50% of the country effectively already ticked.
By the time you add OpenReach FTTP and what CityFibre will have done then that target isn't as ambitious as it sounds.
But VM's top product (on coax) can only hit 630 Mbps. How can that be called 'gigabit capable'? Or is that taking into account the upgrade to DOCSIS 3.1? Or their own Gig1 rollout programme?
80% will be reached with commercial rollouts alone, without any government funding or intervention.
The government's target is to help with the other 5%, leaving 15% with no gigabit coverage.
Boris's target was originally 100% full fibre. Then it was watered down to 100% gigabit capable (to include Virgin).
Then it was watered down to 80%, then up to 85%
Interesting, thanks.
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But VM's top product (on coax) can only hit 630 Mbps. How can that be called 'gigabit capable'? Or is that taking into account the upgrade to DOCSIS 3.1? Or their own Gig1 rollout programme?
Interesting, thanks.
Their top package is 1 gig. It's actually over 1 gig as Virgin over provision at 1104Mb/s.
https://www.virginmedia.com/shop/broadband/gig1-gigabit-broadband
It's available where they have completed the DOCSIS 3.1 upgrades.
That covers over 7 million homes so far and is available in London, Northern Ireland, Southampton, Manchester, Reading, Birmingham, Coventry, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford and Glasgow.
The DOCSIS 3.1 upgrades are meant to be complete by the end of 2021, making the Gig1 package available to all Virgin customers.
Coax or FTTP (RFOG) makes zero difference.
You can very much order over 1gig on coax today in areas that have been upgraded already.