Kitz Forum
Announcements => News Articles => Topic started by: gt94sss2 on May 28, 2021, 06:45:00 PM
-
The other week, BT announced (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25880.0.html) that they had increased their FTTP coverage target to 25m premises by the end of 2026.
As part of this, they have today confirmed they now expect to reach 6.2 million UK premises (was 3.2m before) across rural villages and market towns.
In fact, Openreach have done better than that and actually produced an updated 5-year build plan for 1,100 rural exchange locations here (https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/images/transparency/Openreach_Full_Fibre_Build_Programme_May_2021_v3.pdf) (from page 9).
Related ISP Review article (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/05/openreach-boost-rural-fttp-broadband-build-to-6m-uk-premises.html)
-
FWIW - believe me when I say the business is 100% committed to the announcement. It's not just shareprice inflating, guff.
Double-edged sword for me though ... workloads have gone through the roof !! ;) ;D ;D
-
Interested in how OR cope with this. Is the use of Sub Contracting the way it’s going to be achieved? As FTTP continues, I guess copper faults will decrease. Are the really well trained “Potts” guys getting re training ? My experience is the more experienced ( years) are really valuable.
-
https://www.lightreading.com/ethernet-ip/new-ip/verizon-saves-60--swapping-copper-for-fiber/d/d-id/715826
70-90% fewer faults than copper, nearly every exchange that isn't a headend can go, those headends require less space.
Build involves tons of contractors, when it's done and copper retired fewer staff will be required on an ongoing basis. Whether this means terminating contracts with third parties working for Openreach and/or redundancies within the company itself no idea.
Either way Openreach definitely won't need all the permanent, temporary and subcontracted folks they have at the moment, let alone the amount they'll have at peak build pace.
-
As Carl alludes to - contractors are involved massively in the FTTP build - ie: civils, cabling, splicing and testing.
OR took on 2,500 extra staff last year to also assist with the roll-out programmes, and are taking on an extra 1,000 more this year. There is also a slow, controlled process of gradually moving folk from Copper duties to Fibre as and when it is deemed acceptable to do so by management. Please, no trolling that copper has been abandoned and 'they' don't give a flying about it.
The down side to all this is as again Carl nods his head at, that in circa 10yrs time there will be a limited work-force required for the 'hands-off network', that Fibre is.
From my own thoughts and perspective, this is why OR were TUPE'd out a couple of years ago and now as we speak, new T&C's are being discussed or brought in, that will only get worse as time marches on ... but all with one thing in mind, termination of contracts when the FTTP build dictates it.
Can't fault the foresight of the management working on behalf of the shareholders, it's just a shame for the younger end just starting out on their career paths.
Even though fibre splicing/testing is a transferable skill within Telecoms companies, the market will be saturated with them once the FTTP build starts tapering off - ergo, a far lower wage structure.
-
>>> OR took on 2,500 extra staff last year <<<
>>> the market will be saturated with them <<<
I'd pondered on this ages ago when the roll out first commenced. Massive amounts of staff required for work now, but nothing much for anyone once that saturation point has been reached. I can fully see why Openreach would not want to invest in taking on and training huge amounts of people when a few years down the line there will be no work for them.
>> it's just a shame for the younger end just starting out on their career paths <<
Indeed, you can't help but feel sorry to know that there is no long term prospect regarding employment. Openreach - or rather BT - was one of the few remaining companies who took on and trained staff with a prospect of life employment as long as you did your job properly. It is no wonder they had to rethink and decide to use contractors.
It's not just telecoms though... and its happened to most industries in one way or other. My own profession was considered a job for life but not anymore and staff were laid off as automation and the Internet brought out new ways of doing things. Even retail is no longer the same. In fact I cant think of a traditional trade now where you would have a 'job for life'. Perhaps Electricians and Plumbers who go self employed ... I'm sure there must be other professions that would require a switch to either self employed or say in technology that would require a retrain to keep up with advances... but I still cant think of any of the old traditional type career roles with any sort of long term job security.
-
>>> OR took on 2,500 extra staff last year <<<
>>> the market will be saturated with them <<<
I'd pondered on this ages ago when the roll out first commenced. Massive amounts of staff required for work now, but nothing much for anyone once that saturation point has been reached. I can fully see why Openreach would not want to invest in taking on and training huge amounts of people when a few years down the line there will be no work for them.
>> it's just a shame for the younger end just starting out on their career paths <<
Indeed, you can't help but feel sorry to know that there is no long term prospect regarding employment. Openreach - or rather BT - was one of the few remaining companies who took on and trained staff with a prospect of life employment as long as you did your job properly. It is no wonder they had to rethink and decide to use contractors.
It's not just telecoms though... and its happened to most industries in one way or other. My own profession was considered a job for life but not anymore and staff were laid off as automation and the Internet brought out new ways of doing things. Even retail is no longer the same. In fact I cant think of a traditional trade now where you would have a 'job for life'. Perhaps Electricians and Plumbers who go self employed ... I'm sure there must be other professions that would require a switch to either self employed or say in technology that would require a retrain to keep up with advances... but I still cant think of any of the old traditional type career roles with any sort of long term job security.
Undertakers.
-
It's good news that they are boosting coverage.
I wonder how easy it would be as an FTTP person to get a job in another country once the peak here starts dropping?
I'm surprised none of the exchanges local to me are on the list. Does this mean my chances of getting FTTP won't happen until after 2026?
-
No, that's not the full build until 2026. Nowhere near enough premises in those areas to hit the target. It seems a lot of places but many of them aren't big exchanges.
Some of the ones local to where I grew up are a couple of thousand premises. That isn't even a morning of build to hit the nationwide target.
-
>>> OR took on 2,500 extra staff last year <<<
>>> the market will be saturated with them <<<
I'd pondered on this ages ago when the roll out first commenced. Massive amounts of staff required for work now, but nothing much for anyone once that saturation point has been reached. I can fully see why Openreach would not want to invest in taking on and training huge amounts of people when a few years down the line there will be no work for them.
>> it's just a shame for the younger end just starting out on their career paths <<
Indeed, you can't help but feel sorry to know that there is no long term prospect regarding employment. Openreach - or rather BT - was one of the few remaining companies who took on and trained staff with a prospect of life employment as long as you did your job properly. It is no wonder they had to rethink and decide to use contractors.
It's not just telecoms though... and its happened to most industries in one way or other. My own profession was considered a job for life but not anymore and staff were laid off as automation and the Internet brought out new ways of doing things. Even retail is no longer the same. In fact I cant think of a traditional trade now where you would have a 'job for life'. Perhaps Electricians and Plumbers who go self employed ... I'm sure there must be other professions that would require a switch to either self employed or say in technology that would require a retrain to keep up with advances... but I still cant think of any of the old traditional type career roles with any sort of long term job security.
There will be in Leicester, BT keeping their copper network here. :) so will continue to have faults to fix.
Joke aside, I feel its always been worse for the young, we moving more and more towards zero hour contracts, agencies, contracter's etc. Companies just dont like having staff on their books for life anymore.
-
They're employees not children. Jobs for life by default are long gone bar smaller companies. Transactional relationship - work for money and hopefully job satisfaction.
-
Problem is though, if working is no longer economically viable, what then?
-
Bet I still don't get FTTP in Clacton :no:
-
Other than the full fibre network currently under Virgin Media but to go wholesale at at least symmetrical gigabit for starters?
Could be worse.
-
Problem is though, if working is no longer economically viable, what then?
Prices rise to cover higher wages. Until UBI that's how it's going to have to go.
-
What if your exchange is listed but not the village you live in, should I be worried.
-
Exchange builds are just that - connecting the premises to fibre that are currently connected to copper.
We survey 100% of those premises, even knowing there will be a certain percentage high-costed out of the particular build programme, and its budget. It means it has HE capacity planned in for when future FTTP programmes can pick it up, with bigger budgets.
-
When the checker is updated it should tell me if I’m within current plans, so I’ll wait and see.
I’m in a fairly large village which is technically the most affluent area within the exchange area, and FTTC uptake is large enough that every cabinet has 2 FTTC cabs.
:fingers:
-
List up to 2026 and still no sign of Luton ... /sigh
-
Although not in Luton - I feel your pain, myself. ::)
-
Is it the full list up to 2026?
Doubt it.
Well, I know it. There's plenty going on that's not listed there and nowhere near enough premises in that map to hit the target.
-
Prices rise to cover higher wages. Until UBI that's how it's going to have to go.
Bit late to this party, but UBI will solve nothing going on the trials that have already taken place. How do we afford that as a country?
-
Exchange builds are just that - connecting the premises to fibre that are currently connected to copper.
We survey 100% of those premises, even knowing there will be a certain percentage high-costed out of the particular build programme, and its budget. It means it has HE capacity planned in for when future FTTP programmes can pick it up, with bigger budgets.
Does that mean that the plan now is to eventually provide fibre to all premises currently connected by copper? I remember earlier Openreach were stressing that this wouldn't ne the case, and premises viewed as too expensive to connect would be omitted. That was a news or press release article on here, maybe a year ago.
-
Bet I still don't get FTTP in Clacton :no:
Well I'll be... on the list to get FTTP by 2026
I'm definitely assuming kitz is the one to thank for this.
kitz is the best <3
-
Does that mean that the plan now is to eventually provide fibre to all premises currently connected by copper? I remember earlier Openreach were stressing that this wouldn't ne the case, and premises viewed as too expensive to connect would be omitted. That was a news or press release article on here, maybe a year ago.
The FTTP landscape is forever changing and ramping up, mate .... due in no small part to competition and government funding.
There are many build programmes going on and to give a definite answer to your question is impossible, I'm afraid. There will, I'm absolutely certain, be dwellings that won't ever have FTTP due to costs, but, will probably have some other form of high-speed connection such as 6G ??
I'm just like everyone else and enjoying the ride at the minute - considering the logistics behind it all, it really is a massive feat of engineering.
-
Thats great news Ads.
haha of course not ya numpty... 2026 is still a way off but at least you've not been forgotten.
Must catch up properly some time. My fault, I'm dreadful at doing the social stuff some days - it wipes me. Just want this sorted and sick of delays 'due to covid'. TC you.
-
The FTTP landscape is forever changing and ramping up, mate .... due in no small part to competition and government funding.
There are many build programmes going on and to give a definite answer to your question is impossible, I'm afraid. There will, I'm absolutely certain, be dwellings that won't ever have FTTP due to costs, but, will probably have some other form of high-speed connection such as 6G ??
I'm just like everyone else and enjoying the ride at the minute - considering the logistics behind it all, it really is a massive feat of engineering.
So were thinking Openreach will just give up on hard to reach places as they will likely already be contracted for the fibre to the cell tower anyway so will be making their money either way from those areas?
-
No idea.
-
The FTTP landscape is forever changing and ramping up, mate .... due in no small part to competition and government funding.
There are many build programmes going on and to give a definite answer to your question is impossible, I'm afraid. There will, I'm absolutely certain, be dwellings that won't ever have FTTP due to costs, but, will probably have some other form of high-speed connection such as 6G ??
I'm just like everyone else and enjoying the ride at the minute - considering the logistics behind it all, it really is a massive feat of engineering.
It is good to see. OR are very active around my parts. The slight problem it gives me is re-educating my friends and neighbours about how how FTTP is different to FTTC etc.Which is a nice problem. ;D
-
Given the 330Mb limit on ECI exchanges, does anyone know if these exchanges are currently excluded from the plan. I'm particularly interested in Birtley exchange in Co. Durham which serves a very large residential area but does not seem to figure in any plan I have seen.
-
Given the 330Mb limit on ECI exchanges, does anyone know if these exchanges are currently excluded from the plan. I'm particularly interested in Birtley exchange in Co. Durham which serves a very large residential area but does not seem to figure in any plan I have seen.
Apart from just over a dozen new site/retro new-site schemes - there's nothing showing as moving in Birtley atm.
Have you tried looking on the map that someone posted the other day ?? Gives an idea of what's happening right up to 2026 I think, from memory ??.
-
Apart from just over a dozen new site/retro new-site schemes - there's nothing showing as moving in Birtley atm.
Have you tried looking on the map that someone posted the other day ?? Gives an idea of what's happening right up to 2026 I think, from memory ??.
Yep, nothing showing on that map either. Hence my suspicion that ECI exchanges are being omitted at present.
-
Yep, nothing showing on that map either. Hence my suspicion that ECI exchanges are being omitted at present.
I guess it depends what you mean by an ECI exchange.
All the FTTC cabs I've seen off my exchange are ECI, but a year or so back they started fitting Huawei extension cabinets (this has been seen all over the country), so there is absolutely Huawei hardware at the exchange now.
Add to that the Fibre First lookup said "you will be getting Gigabit soon", until they removed that when it was delayed and never put my address back on the checker.
As discussed before, there aren't very many ECI only areas.
-
It is the same here. Started off as all ECI back in 2013/14 but has since had Huawei expansion cabs installed. I guess there’s hope yet!
-
As I was reading through the posts I also started to wonder about 'ECI exchanges' knowing that just about all the cabs except for a later few that were part of BDUK are ECI. Yet the checker tells me "Supports speeds up to 1Gbps ".
-
The BDUK Huawei OLT gets used for FTTP. That's the case here - ECI area, Huawei BDUK, Huawei FTTP.
-
Aye, it struck me when I realised that we had a few BDUK cabs, that we must have a Huawei OLT. For a couple of years every single cab was ECI, then we got the BDUK Huawei cabs. More recently we have ECI cabs with a Huawei twin at the same PCP.
afaik most new cabs for the past few years have been Huawei, there's one exception that I know of which is a cab originally planned in 2003 but it got seriously delayed due to no access -rumour was that collapsed major duct.. and it didnt go live until about 2015 (after BDUK) but they still used an ECI as per the original plan.
I think it was you who said fairly recently that there were very few exchanges that didn't have a Huawei OLT - apols if it wasnt, and I should be giving credit to someone else. :)
-
I guess it depends what you mean by an ECI exchange.
All the FTTC cabs I've seen off my exchange are ECI, but a year or so back they started fitting Huawei extension cabinets (this has been seen all over the country), so there is absolutely Huawei hardware at the exchange now.
Add to that the Fibre First lookup said "you will be getting Gigabit soon", until they removed that when it was delayed and never put my address back on the checker.
As discussed before, there aren't very many ECI only areas.
According to my install engineer who I have stayed in touch with every cabinet on my exchange is still ECI only, no Huawei extension cabinets. But this may be why my city is a blank for Openreach FTTP, I didnt consider it might be due to ECI equipment.
-
According to my install engineer who I have stayed in touch with every cabinet on my exchange is still ECI only, no Huawei extension cabinets. But this may be why my city is a blank for Openreach FTTP, I didnt consider it might be due to ECI equipment.
That well and truly sucks, though I guess the extension cabs will only happen if enough ECI cabs are at capacity so its economically viable.
-
According to my install engineer who I have stayed in touch with every cabinet on my exchange is still ECI only, no Huawei extension cabinets. But this may be why my city is a blank for Openreach FTTP, I didnt consider it might be due to ECI equipment.
I'd be very surprised if that were the case.
That would mean you have no BDUK cabinets and no cabinets installed since 2016.
It's easy to check on codelook though. Which exchange?
Edit: indeed. Probably more Huawei cabinets than ECI now on Leicester Central.
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=776351&cabinets=25811
There are very few, if any, Head-End exchanges with only an ECI OLT.
Any ECI FTTP out there is either old deployments or on exchanges with only an ECI OLT, which there are possibly none.
I haven't personally seen anyone get FTTP rolled out with ECI hardware that wasn't from a deployment from at least couple years ago.
-
I guess I am wrong, thanks for checking. :) Wont take everything he says now as gospel anymore.
-
All but one cab in my area is ECI.
The Huawei cab was the last to be installed in 2016 as part of the BDUK Manchester.
-
Swift reminder Openreach use Nokia OLTs as well. If there genuinely were no Huawei kit they'd install Nokia.
-
All but one cab in my area is ECI.
The Huawei cab was the last to be installed in 2016 as part of the BDUK Manchester.
If your are using codelook to check that you may need to double check that list.
Any ECI cabinets that shows as being expanded 2017 or later were expanded with a Huawei.
Swift reminder Openreach use Nokia OLTs as well. If there genuinely were no Huawei kit they'd install Nokia.
Some of the Adtran kit is also meant to be live, although I'm yet to see any.
-
If your are using codelook to check that you may need to double check that list.
Any ECI cabinets that shows as being expanded 2017 or later were expanded with a Huawei.
Ok, I just re-checked the page. There are 6 ECI cabinets expanded. 5 in 2018, and 1 in 2019.
-
They were more than likely all expanded with Huawei DSLAM's.
They stopped installing ECI cabinets mid 2016.
There's really nothing to worry about when it comes to getting stuck with ECI hardware on FTTP**
Even if there was only an ECI OLT in an exchange, an FTTP rollout would almost certainly see a new OLT from another Vendor installed for the rollout.
Huawei, Nokia and Adtran are the 3 current FTTP vendors, but there's a 35% cap being introduced on Huawei.
** The only poor souls that should end up on ECI FTTP are those with it already rolled out who just haven't signed up yet.