Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: cacoe on April 09, 2021, 12:46:51 PM
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So I know the fact I'm with IDNET and the fact that I have a new SOGEA line is just incidental information, just putting it out there first up.
I've had a few new lines installed previously due to moving around a lot in the past. In my previous experience, sync speeds start slow, DLM pushes things up until the connection isn't stable then dials the line back a bit to maintain stability. Whether this is always the case, or is what in fact is actually happening, not sure, as stated, just from experience, I could be wrong.
It's been 48 hours since I had a new line installed and I've synced at 37mbit, this speed hasn't budged (which is what I find the most unusual). It's actually a second line, I still have a line active with sky currently synced at 54mbit. The Openreach engineer said they're both taking the same route to the same cab, it's just a different pair. IDNet's take on the situation is that they can't see any indicators for any problems, the line's profile is set to the max of 80mbit (I totally don't exect to ever get that speed but I would have expected it at least come closer to my first line's speed) and the only thing I can do is change equipment (I just paid for a router that they advise using on their site) or get someone from Openreach to fault check but stated that it's likely that I'll be charged because there's no indication of a fault. My pings are also (at best) about 10ms higher than with sky.
So we're at an impasse, I don't want to risk being charged but I don't think the line is nessasarily behaving properly. They say there's no problem.
Their say on the matter is "it appears that the specific copper pair that you're connected to is already reaching it's potential" - (paraphrased)
I think the smartest thing to do is wait for the 10 day period to pass and hope for the best, glad they don't have a contract and I'm really glad I opted for a new line to be installed because I can just cancel with IDNet if need be, and my Sky service continues like nothing happened.
Anyway, all of that considered my downstream is interleaved at a pretty high depth level, my line attenuation on the new line is actually lower than my attenuation on the Sky line, I'm seeing a few CRC errors but nothing eyebrow raising, anything of interest in my connection stats?
(IDNet rep asked me do do a single resync to check if there was any change, hense the low uptime)
(https://i.imgur.com/voaPrdB.png)
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Welcome @cacoe
Just to confirm, that's an Asus DSL-AC68U running Firmware version 3.0.0.4.386_41995 ?
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Hi, it's not that model, it's a ASUS DSL-AC55U - I think while looking into all of this I saw potential issues with one of their firmwares... wonder if that's the case on this model too? - Current firmware is 1.1.2.3_858-gb01e6a7
Oh another thing that bugged me about the IDNet rep was they claimed my line is running above my minimum quoted speed which contradicts what their own site said when signing up, and what their confirmation email stated that they sent me, stated 44mbit-63mbit - which is fair enough but he made out that he had no idea where I was reading that information, I was like... it's information that you sent me! He was quoting over 33mbit down but -
(https://i.imgur.com/ocknH2r.jpg)
Which is quite maddening, their support has been claimed to be excellent but thus far it hasn't been, when I said my pings are quite poor he said "what do you mean by pings?" - maybe he wanted me to say latancy, point being is he would have known what I meant, not having a great experience so far.
Sorry, just needed to get that mini rant out, more imporantly, I just want the line to be working properly :)
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The general consensus on most UK Broadband forums is that the Asus Cable Routers are lovely, but the ASUS DSL routers are crippled by the Mediatek Trendchip modems.
Have you got another router you could test with?
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Afraid not, the only other router I have is the Sky one, and everyone else I know only has a locked down ISP router too. Not wanting to rock the DLM boat by trying it without knowing for sure, should my Sky router at least provide some line stats even though it won't actually connect?
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@cacoe
I agree with meritez, that the Asus DSL routers with Mediatek modem chips are to be avoided at all costs. See this post I made recently on another forum, the OP was asking if he should use an old Asus DSL-56U on his FTTC connection
"My advice would be to get rid of any old Asus DSL modem/routers and never connect them to your phone line. They all have the notoriously bad Mediatek modem chipset known to have a load of problems with Openreach VDSL2 services. Poor speeds, dropping connections often resulting in DLM banding the line are likely to happen.
The list of bad devices includes the following :- N17U, AC52U, AC55U, AC56U, N66U, AC68U
If you really want an ASUS device the DSL-AC88U has the much more acceptable Broadcom modem chipset and is generally considered a good choice, it is several years old so there may be newer models available for which I have no details, but don't get one with a Mediatek chipset."
Your sync speed on the SOGEA line looks very low for 15.8 dB attenuation even with 6.2dB SNRM, my line is stable and runs at 79.999Mbps with 15.3 dB attenuation but with a low SNRM of 1.8 dB, G.inp has set the target to 3dB but it is reduced by crosstalk.
If you want to try the SKY router just to see if it syncs at a better speed go ahead, it shouldn't upset DLM, there is no 10 day training period, DLM is active continuously from the start of service.
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Like like you may already be rocking the DLM boat by using that modem.
You're on a Huawei cabinet and the DLM has yet to activate G.INP.
The last I read up on the matter the Asus DSL-AC68U was on a no G.INP list because of the way that chipset implements it.
Recent firmware may have fixed that, or maybe not.
If you don't get G.INP in the next couple days I strongly suspect that it's because of the DSL chipset in the Asus you are using.
They really are horrible chipsets.
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So if I'm on the DLM boat already, only option has to be better router+convincing IDNet to get openreach out for a DSLAM reset?
Also, what router would be considered defacto in terms of modem chipset? (that is at least currently available on amazon for under £150, just saw the price of the AC88u - yikes)
(It is indeed a Huawei cab)
Also would a dedicated modem in combination with my current router do a better job?
I might just return the Asus router but there will be a period of time with nothing connected to the line at all, will this be detremental?
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Switched to the Sky router - 27mbit down.... back to the Asus, up to 38mbit - probs just a marginal gain due to SNR variability - not sure why the sky router was so bad.
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OK after some research, finding it pretty hard to find routers with Broadcom modems integrated (tends not to be listed on product sheets) and even when I do find a definitive hit, it's either been discontinued or is out of stock.
Any recomendations at all? I can probably top out at £200 if I get this router refunded.
Thanks.
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Tp-link Archer VR400 V3 has a broadcom chipset.
You may do better with a separate modem though.
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Billion seem to be fairly popular in terms of modems, but again, stock seems to be an issue. open to any more suggestions for both routers and standalone modems?
The TP-Link TL-Link Archer VR400 seems ok, bare bones but if it syncs better that's favorable. Any suggestions with better integrated wifi would also be appreciated.
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OK so I bought a Tp-link Archer VR400 V3.
Current plans are install the new router tomorrow, hope and pray for an improvement and if it doesn't work out, cancel and send everything back after a few days.
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Stop disconnecting the modem/router leave it alone for 10 days or more because every time you disconnect you upset the DLM.
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"Stop disconnecting the modem/router leave it alone for 10 days or more because every time you disconnect you upset the DLM."
"If you want to try the SKY router just to see if it syncs at a better speed go ahead, it shouldn't upset DLM, there is no 10 day training period, DLM is active continuously from the start of service."
Is there consensus on this? I've seen both posted elsewhere too, so I'm either misunderstanding and both are correct, or there is some misinformation floating around (perhaps based on old information).
In 72 hours of the line being active, it has reconnected twice, once on the advisement of IDNet and once to switch to the Sky router for a moment.
Regardless, based on what's been said here, the line will need to drop once more tomorrow to switch to the new router.
As far as I can see, DLM shouldn't kick into high gear unless there are multiple dropouts within a very short amount of time.
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OK so I bought a Tp-link Archer VR400 V3.
Current plans are install the new router tomorrow, hope and pray for an improvement and if it doesn't work out, cancel and send everything back after a few days.
According to a couple of suppliers, billion have supply issues at present.
Zyxel vmgxxxxb work well as modems, I'm using a vmg1312b10a at present.
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As far as I can see, DLM shouldn't kick into high gear unless there are multiple dropouts within a very short amount of time.
That is correct. It is generally best to leave over 30mins following a disconnection before reconnecting, I think to ensure that there is at least one 15min stats collection period between the events. I must admit however that I have broken that rule on many occasions without issue.
Your line is still in its starting state as far as DLM is concerned, ie G.INP is off and interleaving is on for your Huawei based line, so I'd still be respectful and do your best not to upset it.
:)
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So I know the fact I'm with IDNET and the fact that I have a new SOGEA line is just incidental information, just putting it out there first up.
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So we're at an impasse, I don't want to risk being charged but I don't think the line is nessasarily behaving properly. They say there's no problem.
Their say on the matter is "it appears that the specific copper pair that you're connected to is already reaching it's potential" - (paraphrased)
Hi, also on IDNET now, similar situation to yours.
I moved in to new house about a month ago, the previous owners were with BT and I had checked the sync myself on their active line prior to moving in, it was at 58Mbps.
My Internet is via with IDNET on SOGEA and the OR engineer confirmed it is using the same pairs and route as the previously active line. But I get a solid 48Mbps at 6dB so I'm 10 down on what this line should be syncing at.
Idnets view is to wait and hopefully it will go to a 3dB profile, so far it has not moved off 6dB, it has not resync'd for the last 10 days - it only resync'd because I needed to power down the router, before that no rescyc's and still holding steady at 48.
Im on a Huawei cab, my modem is a commtrend vr-3030 firmware C031-416KRL-C01_R15
xdslctl info --show[J tats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 14451 Kbps, Downstream rate = 48104 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14638 Kbps, Downstream rate = 48327 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.4 5.8
Attn(dB): 17.8 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 14.2 7.6
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 235 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 64
R: 12 16
S: 0.1554 0.5172
L: 12766 3929
D: 8 1
I: 248 127
N: 248 254
Q: 8 0
V: 1 0
RxQueue: 39 0
TxQueue: 13 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 13 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 8.0000 0.0000
L: 32 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 112822397
OHFErr: 0 15600
RS: 2452496384 2924173038
RSCorr: 219378 109336
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 58103408 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 464826770 0
RSCorr: 8 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 21959 0
rtx_c: 8927 0
rtx_uc: 0 0
G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 981 0
minEFTR: 48312 0
errFreeBits: 687826696 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 836689092 0
Data Cells: 3840293405 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 0 10046
SES: 0 0
UAS: 34 34
AS: 933429
Bearer 0
INP: 47.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 8.30
OR: 0.01 30.81
AgR: 48404.08 14668.71
Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 0.00
INPRein: 2.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 63.75 0.01
AgR: 63.75 0.01
Bitswap: 865/865 32386/32386
Total time = 10 days 19 hours 17 min 43 sec
FEC: 219378 109336
CRC: 0 15600
ES: 0 10046
SES: 0 0
UAS: 34 34
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 43 sec
FEC: 0 34
CRC: 0 3
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 329 64
CRC: 0 13
ES: 0 8
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 19 hours 17 min 43 sec
FEC: 20216 3876
CRC: 0 1146
ES: 0 728
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 22948 14761
CRC: 0 1595
ES: 0 1040
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Since Link time = 10 days 19 hours 17 min 9 sec
FEC: 219378 109336
CRC: 0 15600
ES: 0 10046
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
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@mattd, G.INP is applied as you say and with ReTx Low (INPRein=0 on Bearer 0) which is good, but it's puzzling why it hasn't started stepping down the SNR. It'd certainly have expected it to given the very low errors you are seeing. ???
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Yep! Really weird, I’m going to leave it be for another 5 days and perhaps then it it’s still not lost sync or changed the profile idnet can reset it
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Yep! Really weird, I’m going to leave it be for another 5 days and perhaps then it it’s still not lost sync or changed the profile idnet can reset it
Welcome, was your comtrend from idnet?
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:-)
No, bought it off eBay. Was new :-)
If anyone would like the firmware btw, drop me a DM
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So the new router came (TP-Link VR400 v3)
The stats are extremely limited -
Line Status:
Connected
DSL Up Time:
0 days 0 hours 21 minutes
DSL Modulation Type:
VDSL2
Annex Type:
Annex auto
Upstream Downstream
Current Rate (kbps) 12387 42338
Max Rate (kbps) 12413 54115
SNR Margin (dB) 6.2 5.2
Line Attenuation (dB) 3 16.1
Errors (pkts) 2 309
Stats are better than previously posted, however this had improved marginally prior to replacing the router.
If anyone has a method of accessing more connection stat data on this model, would be greatly appreciated. I've searched a bit but I've only found such info on much older models. Gotta say, this router's admin page is pretty weak.
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ok so the finally got telnet working and the full stats are -
enable=1
status=Up
dataPath=Fast
lineNumber=0
lineEncoding=
modulationType=VDSL2
interleaveDepth=0
X_TP_AnnexType=Annex auto
enable=1
X_TP_DisableAELEM=0
status=Up
linkEncapsulationRequested=
linkEncapsulationUsed=G.993.2_Annex_K_PTM
modulationType=VDSL2
lineEncoding=
allowedProfiles=8a,8b,8c,8d,12a,12b,17a,30a
currentProfile=
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_8a=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_8b=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_8c=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_8d=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_12a=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_12b=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_17a=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_30a=0
dataPath=Fast
interleaveDepth=0
lineNumber=0
upstreamCurrRate=12040
downstreamCurrRate=42334
upstreamMaxRate=12059
downstreamMaxRate=54439
upstreamNoiseMargin=63
downstreamNoiseMargin=52
upstreamAttenuation=31
downstreamAttenuation=159
upstreamPower=69
downstreamPower=119
usNegBandPlanDiscPresentation=0
dsNegBandPlanDiscPresentation=0
totalStart=14
showtimeStart=14
quarterHourStart=0
X_TP_LastUpMoment=84
X_TP_UpTime=1338
X_TP_Bitswap=On
X_TP_SRA=Off
X_TP_AdslModulationCfg=Multimode
X_TP_AnnexType=Annex auto
X_TP_SupportAdslMode=VDSL2:A,B;T1.413:A;G.dmt:A,B;ADSL2:auto,A,B,A/L;ADSL2+:auto,A,B,I,J,M,A/L,B/J,A/I/J/L/M;ADSL Auto Sync-up:auto,A/L,B/J,A/I/J/L/M;Auto Sync-up:auto,A/L,B/J,A/I/J/L/M;
No idea if anything here implies g.imp enabled or not - not that there's anything anyone can do unless DLM decides to enable it.
This seems to imply I'm connected via fastpath now, which seems to hold true, my pings have dropped about 9-10ms
I'm not sure I actually trust some of these stats, isn't G.993.2_Annex_K_PTM usually for countries outside the UK?
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To quote ejs: https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?action=post;quote=353899;topic=20266.0;last_msg=353911
Every VDSL2 modem supports PTM.
The reference to "Annex K" is because PTM is described in Annex K of the ITU-T ADSL2 G.992.3 document. Annex K of the ITU-T VDSL2 G.993.2 document is actually just a placeholder saying it is "for further study".
Those are interesting stats
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What do you think? Misreporting or actually connected weird?
Speaking of stats, from the actual router page, you reckon this amount of errors in such a short amount of time should be cause for concern? (I actually at least trust the actual router stats vs what telnet reports) -
Line Status:
Connected
DSL Up Time:
0 days 15 hours 15 minutes
DSL Modulation Type:
VDSL2
Annex Type:
Annex A
Upstream Downstream
Current Rate (kbps) 12107 42081
Max Rate (kbps) 12159 53447
SNR Margin (dB) 6.4 5.1
Line Attenuation (dB) 3.1 15.9
Errors (pkts) 35 91062
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...
Speaking of stats, from the actual router page, you reckon this amount of errors in such a short amount of time should be cause for concern? (I actually at least trust the actual router stats vs what telnet reports) -
It's unfortunately not clear what type of errors they are. If they are CRCs then it's bad but if FECs then it's perfectly fine.
:-\
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You may be able to get more detailed stats using StatPOSTer which works with most TPlink modems
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14377.msg269624.html#msg269624
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I've not used a TPlink modem for a while and I may be dreaming, but I'm sure some people got DSLstats working with the TPlinks too. ETA have a read through the thread linked above - its seems possible with the VR400 v3.
Disclaimer this is experimental and you do so at your own risk.
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It's unfortunately not clear what type of errors they are. If they are CRCs then it's bad but if FECs then it's perfectly fine.
:-\
I agree, this router's admin page is horrendous! (no offence to the person who suggested it, the only criteria when asking for a router was that it had a broadcom chipset)
You may be able to get more detailed stats using StatPOSTer which works with most TPlink modems
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14377.msg269624.html#msg269624
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I've not used a TPlink modem for a while and I may be dreaming, but I'm sure some people got DSLstats working with the TPlinks too. ETA have a read through the thread linked above - its seems possible with the VR400 v3.
Disclaimer this is experimental and you do so at your own risk.
I've tried everything I can think to get this to work, cleared the username as blank (my router doesn't seem to require one to log into the admin panel or telnet)
Deffo entering the correct password, tried both models on the dropdown but no matter what, I just get -
2021.04.12 11:52:22 xDSL Stats:
java.io.IOException: Server returned HTTP response code: 500 for URL: http://192.168.1.1/cgi?1&5
I'd very much like to be able to use this, or DSLstats but it's the same situation with that, just doesn't want to connect no matter what.
I assume I've "hacked" the router correctly seeing as I can telnet at all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
DSLstats states that I've used the wrong username+pass
Update on that... it appears the fact that I had an active telnet session running already was stopping it from connecting...
Now instead of login errors, I get -
12 Apr 2021 12:04:09 Recording started
12 Apr 2021 12:04:24 Timeout while retrieving stats
12 Apr 2021 12:04:24 No stats received
Thinking about it, maybe it already had rudimentary telnet access and I in fact did not fully unlock it? Does this deffo look unlocked?
(https://i.imgur.com/j6BgThF.png)
Failing everything else, I am still happy to return everything I've already bought if required. If anyone can still suggest a VDSL modem or router (That I can actually buy) with decent stat reporting and a broadcom chipset for the modem, I am still willing to move to yet another device ;D
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Well my idnet one is still holding it's 6dB profile and removes to budge, coming up to 13 days now without a re-sync.
> dsluptime
DSL Uptime: 12 days:23 hours:0 mins:27 secs
> xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 14638 Kbps, Downstream rate = 48161 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14638 Kbps, Downstream rate = 48327 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.4 6.0
Attn(dB): 17.8 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 14.2 7.4
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 235 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 64
R: 12 16
S: 0.1554 0.5172
L: 12766 3929
D: 8 1
I: 248 127
N: 248 254
Q: 8 0
V: 1 0
RxQueue: 39 0
TxQueue: 13 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 13 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 8.0000 0.0000
L: 32 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 135331058
OHFErr: 0 18009
RS: 2931227936 69462158
RSCorr: 249499 117458
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 69695501 0
OHFErr: 1 0
RS: 557563517 0
RSCorr: 8 0
RSUnCorr: 1 0
Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 25202 0
rtx_c: 10097 0
rtx_uc: 0 0
G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 1122 0
minEFTR: 48312 0
errFreeBits: 825053876 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 961383324 0
Data Cells: 2369506610 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 0 11609
SES: 0 0
UAS: 34 34
AS: 1119654
Bearer 0
INP: 47.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 8.30
OR: 0.01 30.81
AgR: 48404.08 14668.71
Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 0.00
INPRein: 2.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 63.75 0.01
AgR: 63.75 0.01
Bitswap: 1026/1026 37953/37953
Total time = 12 days 23 hours 1 min 28 sec
FEC: 249499 117458
CRC: 0 18009
ES: 0 11609
SES: 0 0
UAS: 34 34
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 28 sec
FEC: 26 28
CRC: 0 9
ES: 0 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 25 85
CRC: 0 16
ES: 0 11
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 1 min 28 sec
FEC: 14878 3682
CRC: 0 1163
ES: 0 749
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 10206 3295
CRC: 0 974
ES: 0 645
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
Since Link time = 12 days 23 hours 53 sec
FEC: 249499 117458
CRC: 0 18009
ES: 0 11609
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
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I'm afraid I ditched my tplinks before the full 'hack' was found, so its not anything I ever tried, but to me that looks like you just have the TPL interface rather than the BCM CLI.
Personally I'm a fan of the Zyxels - particularly the VMG8324/8924 modems, so I'm not the best person to give advice on the TPLs.
The Zyxels can sometimes be picked up cheap on ebay where I see there's currently one for 72p and another for £2.50. They are getting a bit old now, but I always end up going back to mine which I bought new several years ago - purely because of its filter in the B10A series which make them rock steady on my line which can be problematic with noise bursts.
If I were in the market for a brand new modem/router and money was no object I'd probably try the new ASUS with the BCM chipset (wouldnt touch any of their others with a bargepole). Failing that I'd still go back to one of the Zyxels, in fact I pickedup another as a spare just in case mine fell over.
I don't really like recommending because IMO there appears to be a shortage of decent new combined units with both a good modem chipset and router (wifi) capabilities.... which is the reason why many on here use separate units.
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I take it when you referenced those particular models, you're speaking using them strictly as modems only? (In that on paper their WiFi seems a bit on the weak side)
Hardware whether it's a new graphics card, processor or even microwave seems an absolute nightmare to source at the moment.
I'm finding it a bit odd that my idnet line has settled at precisely 40mbit despite being told it was set to the 80mbit profile, it could just be a coincidence but it makes you wonder.
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@cacoe
It's sounding like IDNET have a product profiling issue on their platform.
Talktalk had a similar issue the other month, customers who ordered 80/20 were being put on 40/10 products at Openreach end.
Both of the vmg8x24 that @kitz mentioned went for pretty high prices on eBay last night, £5.50 and £7.50 respectively.
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LOL - I should have probably grabbed one while they were up. Having said that I did a search and saw a couple that were going for substantially more than suggested, maybe more bids had taken place. I'll have to keep an eye out. Having said that, strongly considering just going 4g, I've been watching speedtests on my oneplus 7 like a hawk and seem to get between 50-100mbit consistently. Crap pings but it's to be expected.
I feel like it's quite a risk though, would probably keep the vdsl line active regardless. I think for having a connection that is usually at least double the speed of the copper line, it's probs worth it for just £22 a month on top of what I'm already paying.
On the matter of incorrect profiling, what could I say to IDnet to convince them to do something? (Like literally word for word so I actually sound like I know what I'm talking about) - actual info on this sort of thing (although kitz is a fantastic source of information) it's not like picking up info on other topics like computer building/repair, there's an almost seemingly mystical nature to it all where DLM is god and no one truly understands how it works lol
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Your sync speed is higher than 40Mbps, so that rules out you being incorrectly profiled on a 40 Mbps product
The last stats provided showed you have a significant number of errors, particularly downstream - 91062 in 15 hours 15 minutes equates to 6000 errors per hour or 100 every minute.
The fact that you are on a 5.1 downstream margin suggests that you are on a Huawei cabinet and G.INP is kicking in.
Being on an ECI cabinet, I don't have any experience of G.IMP and don't know what to advise, but it seems that your sync speed is limited by the number of errors you are seeing.
There are much better experts than me on here, so I will let them comment further ...
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Quite a substantial update, can't post the stats fully because I'm working, but I just thought... What happens if I unplug my sky router? The engineer fitting the new socket just grabbed a spare pair from a bundle already coming up to my property and trailed it to a new socket next to the original (the two sockets are virtually touching with the new pair running between them from the original socket). SNR immediately shot up to 9.8dB and max rate went up to 58mbit. Deffo going to be monitoring this but considering there's been quite a considerable improvement in doing this... Is it pointing to a slightly dodgy install of the new line?
About an hour has passed an not a single extra error has been logged either...
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OK, so the router decided to resync and -
Line Status:
Connected
DSL Up Time:
0 days 0 hours 27 minutes
DSL Modulation Type:
VDSL2
Annex Type:
Annex A
Upstream Downstream
Current Rate (kbps) 12551 27632
Max Rate (kbps) 12551 58171
SNR Margin (dB) 6.6 16.3
Line Attenuation (dB) 3.2 15.9
Errors (pkts) 2 3
Plugged in the Sky router on the 1st line again and the Max rate goes to around 40mbps, SNR goes to 12db.
Unplugged the Sky route and Max rate back to 58mbit, SNR 16.3
???
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@cacoe this is going to sound crazy but if you plug a corded phone into either line and do the quiet line test, dial 17070, can you hear noise?
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I'd love to, however I don't own one, also the new line is SoGEA, so I assume this wouldn't work on that line?
Granted still, I'd try this on the old one if possible.
Maybe buying a wired landline phone should be the next step however, they're two seperate lines, if everything is going well, unplugging router A shouldn't make a plain bit of difference to router B, right?
Wired landline phone ordered, this is gonna leave me broke at this rate lol :D
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So after spending far more time than should have been needed to both A) get into telnet properly and B) find the right command to show router stats (who would have thought it'd be cat /proc/tc3162/adsl_stats) I have the following more comprehensive stats -
ADSL link status: up
Opmode: ITU G.993.2(VDSL2), G.998.4(G.INP DS ONLY)TPSTC type: 64/65B PTM TC
near-end interleaved channel bit rate: 27632 kbps
near-end fast channel bit rate: 0 kbps
far-end interleaved channel bit rate: 0 kbps
far-end fast channel bit rate: 12551 kbps
near-end FEC error fast: 0
near-end FEC error interleaved: 99345
near-end CRC error fast: 0
near-end CRC error interleaved: 3
near-end HEC error fast: 0
near-end HEC error interleaved: 0
far-end FEC error fast: 54
far-end FEC error interleaved: 0
far-end CRC error fast: 20
far-end CRC error interleaved: 0
far-end HEC error fast: 0
far-end HEC error interleaved: 0
ADSL activetime :0 min, 15 secs
Downstream:
relative capacity occupation: 100%
noise margin downstream: 15.9 dB
output power upstream: 6.9 dbm
attenuation downstream: 15.9 dB
Upstream:
relative capacity occupation: 100%
noise margin upstream: 6.6 dB
output power downstream: 11.1 dbm
attenuation upstream: 3.2 dB
Bit table:
carrier load: number of bits per tone
tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 06 78 89 99 99 99 99 99 98 88 77 76 43
tone 32- 63: 26 66 65 55 55 66 66 77 78 78 88 99 9a aa aa aa
tone 64- 95: ab bb bb bb bb bc bb bb ba bb ba bb bb ba ba aa
tone 96-127: a9 aa aa aa bb bb bb bb aa 9a aa ba bb bb bb ba
tone 128-159: 9b a9 a9 aa 9a ab 9a 9a aa aa aa 9a aa 9a 99 aa
tone 160-191: a9 99 a9 99 a8 a9 99 aa 99 a8 89 aa 99 a8 9a a9
tone 192-223: 89 89 a9 a9 89 a9 9a 99 8a 99 99 a9 89 94 99 99
tone 224-255: 99 99 99 99 89 99 99 8a 99 99 a9 8a a8 99 9a 89
near end itu identification: 26005443434e5a06
far end itu identification: b5004244434dc189
attain upstream: 12551
attain downstream: 57799
ADSL activetime second: 15
ADSL total ativetime second: 15
ATURANSIRev: 0
ATUCANSIRev: 0
ATURANSIStd: 0
ATUCANSIStd: 0
Interleave Depth: 8
atur chan interleave delay: 0
atur chan prev tx rate: 12551 kbps
atur chan curr tx rate: 12551 kbps
atur chan crc block len: 0
Adsl Standard: VDSL2
Adsl Type: ANNEX_B
Take away - It looks like G.IMP is on, downstream is interleaved.
Funnily enough the chipset seems like it is a Mediatek (source - https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/MediaTek (https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/MediaTek)) and not a Broadcom afterall -
# cat proc cpuinfo
system type : EcoNet EN751221 SOC
processor : 0
cpu model : MIPS 34Kc V5.8
BogoMIPS : 598.01
wait instruction : yes
microsecond timers : yes
tlb_entries : 64
extra interrupt vector : yes
hardware watchpoint : yes, count: 4, address/irw mask: [0x0ffc, 0x0ffc, 0x0ff8, 0x0ffb]
ASEs implemented : mips16 dsp mt
shadow register sets : 1
core : 0
VCED exceptions : not available
VCEI exceptions : not available
So here's the scenario -
I have my IDNet router connected without the Sky router plugged in or powered on. At no point have I done anything with the IDNet router other than gather stats, it's stayed plugged in constantly.
The relevent stats on the IDNet router are (actual sync speeds stayed consistently low at 27926 kbps downstream) -
near-end FEC error interleaved: 48
Downstream:
noise margin downstream: 15.7 dB
output power upstream: 5.4 dbm
attenuation downstream: 15.9 dB
Upstream:
noise margin upstream: 6.7 dB
output power downstream: 11.3 dbm
attenuation upstream: 3.1 dB
attain upstream: 11464
attain downstream: 59387
I now plug in the Sky router into my original socket and wait two mins for DSL to connect and check stats on the IDNet router again -
near-end FEC error interleaved: 16541
Downstream:
noise margin downstream: 11.6 dB
output power upstream: 5.4 dbm
attenuation downstream: 15.9 dB
Upstream:
noise margin upstream: 5.7 dB
output power downstream: 11.0 dbm
attenuation upstream: 3.1 dB
attain upstream: 11208
attain downstream: 49843
So I unplug the Sky router once more and the stats are as follows -
near-end FEC error interleaved: 23695
Downstream:
noise margin downstream: 15.3 dB
output power upstream: 5.4 dbm
attenuation downstream: 15.9 dB
Upstream:
noise margin upstream: 6.7 dB
output power downstream: 11.0 dbm
attenuation upstream: 3.1 dB
attain upstream: 11505
attain downstream: 58759
So while the Sky router is connected to socket A and IDnet is connected to socket B SNR on socket A drops, attainable downstream also drops about 10mbit.
Couple of mins after disconnecting the Sky router from socket A, FEC error rate reduced substantially.
I don't get it.
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So while the Sky router is connected to socket A and IDnet is connected to socket B SNR on socket A drops, attainable downstream also drops about 10mbit.
Couple of mins after disconnecting the Sky router from socket A, FEC error rate reduced substantially.
I don't get it.
Losing 10Mbit is not entirely uncommon from a new users DSL coming online causing crosstalk with your line. It seems you may be in the unfortunate situation where the line coming online causing crosstalk, is your own second line. :(
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Funnily enough the chipset seems like it is a Mediatek (source - https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/MediaTek) and not a Broadcom afterall
No, the device referred to in the output of the command "cat /proc/cpuinfo" is the processor used by the operating system. The DSL chipset is a separate set of devices (in the same way as most computers have a separate graphics processor which is independent of the operating system). Your DSL chipset is Broadcom.
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Losing 10Mbit is not entirely uncommon from a new users DSL coming online causing crosstalk with your line. It seems you may be in the unfortunate situation where the line coming online causing crosstalk, is your own second line. :(
My thoughts too were crosstalk, but presumably Cacoe should be seeing a similar loss on his Sky router when the IDNet router is plugged in and operational. Is that the case, Cacoe?
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The sky router is extremely limited in terms of line stats so it's hard to say with as much certainty. Wired phone coming later so I will at the very least be able to do a quiet line test on the sky line.
On speaking to IDNet and telling them literally everything so far,they keep coming back to "well, if you want a BT Openreach engineer to come out, then you can but if there isn't a fault then they will charge you".
Isn't getting substantially lower sync speeds than quoted an indicator to most ISPs of a line fault? SNR of 16dB? Max rate of 60mbps, actual rate of 27mbit. Quoted 44-63mbit to start with.
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"Losing 10Mbit is not entirely uncommon from a new users DSL coming online causing crosstalk with your line. It seems you may be in the unfortunate situation where the line coming online causing crosstalk, is your own second line. "
How long until I see an improvement from unplugging the Sky router though? Does the cross talk still happen despite this? Surely not?
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The SNRM and attainable vv actual signal a banded line perhaps
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Done the quiet line test, there is an extremely quiet "fuzz" in the background. Whether this constitues as noise, or whether its as a result of the crap £20 handset I bought, couldn't tell you, but it is all wired and only powered by the line. (connected to test socket)
As well as that when the menu options were going and this is only once, I heard a loud squeal, sort of like when a capacitor is ready to blow which is sort of strange.
SoGEA line is dead, as expected, figured it didn't hurt to try though :D
Anyway spoke to Sky and explained everything and to my shock (I really thought they'd be telling me to get on to IDNet to get this sorted!) they agreed to send out an OR engineer and explicitly said there would be no charge.
I was actually going to leave Sky mainly for their craptastic support but it's starting to feel like a grass is greener situation now.
Edit - Just to see, tried it with the filter on, it made a ton of different sounds, whether that's expected with the filter actually on, I'm not sure.
Also not sure if it would effect the second line too? Maybe it is as simple as bad filter and that's triggered some hardcore DLM?
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My thoughts too were crosstalk, but presumably Cacoe should be seeing a similar loss on his Sky router when the IDNet router is plugged in and operational. Is that the case, Cacoe?
That depends if the test has been done in reverse with the other line synced first. I also think it can behave unexpectedly between the two, if one of the lines is better quality than the other so the signal overall is coming through cleaner despite crosstalk.
Example being my Zen line has always had better statistics than the Plusnet one, presumably the pair it uses back to the cabinet are in better condition somehow. Or the port I'm using on the DSLAM is somehow working better. Things are never quite as predictable as you expect them to be. I guess we forget there are manufacturing tolerances that can unexpectedly make a bigger difference.
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Oh might have forgot to mention, BOTH lines are syncing at 27mbit now... with a similar crazy high SNR
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Oh might have forgot to mention, BOTH lines are syncing at 27mbit now... with a similar crazy high SNR
That definitely seems more than just crosstalk then.
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Perhaps a symptom of what has seemed from the thread a lot of resetting, swapping of routers, etc resulting in DLM banding both of them now?
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Could very well be, not going to deny it but i've tried my best to leave good amount of time before DSL goes down for any reason on either line when this has happened.
Still doesn't explain why each induvidual line seems to be affecting the other quite drastically when unplugged.
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So will the OR engineer coming out on behalf of SKY be disconnecting the IDNET to fix the SKY connection?
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So will the OR engineer coming out on behalf of SKY be disconnecting the IDNET to fix the SKY connection?
It's funny you say that because he confirmed that there was a problem locally with the two lines interfering with each other, he was seeing the same drastic SNR changes with his equipment that I was seeing when unplugging the devices.
So seeing as I found IDNet to be the worst out of the two providers, yes, I did just ask him to disconnect that socket to avoid any further interference with the Sky socket which has had a DSLAM reset.
Sky currently running at 49000kbit, SNR of 6.2
IDNet are dead to me lol.
He said if I'd planned to keep both lines active, he would have had to spend more time on it but was quite happy to just disconnect one of the lines at my request. IDnet are aware.
He wasn't actually quite sure why the 2nd line had caused problems on the first (and the other way around), hypothesised perhaps it was related to SoGEA lines having a differing characteristics (power going through them) - Tbh there where points where I understood what he was saying, and others where it was going over my head but ultimately, I'm back to square one, which is a better place than I had been along the way :)
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As the OR Engineer was there on behalf of SKY, that's not surprising.
So the next step should to log a Total Loss of Service with IDNET and request a Special Faults Investigation Engineer.
Or alternatively cancel the IDNET SOGEA entirely
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Oh, it wasn't like it was his idea, what I mean to say is, I went out of my way to ask if he was able to do this seeing as he was out on behalf of Sky, it was purely my suggestion despite the fact he was probably quite happy that he didn't have to go any deeper than disconnecting the SoGEA line.
Already requested cancellation with IDNet, would have been interesting to find out what the root cause of the issue was but ultimately, it's all probably stressed me out more than it should have, better to go back to how it was prior to the change.
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So seeing as I found IDNet to be the worst out of the two providers, yes, I did just ask him to disconnect that socket to avoid any further interference with the Sky socket which has had a DSLAM reset.
Surely it can't interfere if the router/modem is switched off so that was completely unnecessary?
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Probably not but seeing as I was cancelling anyway and thus no need for the second line because of that, the engineer just did a DLM reset, why would I want to risk anything related to the new line compromising my first line at this point? Just precautionary more than anything.