Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTP Rollout => Topic started by: tickmike on April 06, 2021, 09:00:21 PM

Title: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on April 06, 2021, 09:00:21 PM
Being a loyal customer of Eclipse ISP now  Kcom ISP for 20 plus years on ADSL then ADSL2, I have been talking to them about FTTP coming to our village for some time now, Being by told BT Openreach our village FTTP PON's are all 'Lit Up' and tested and ready to order, after some two months wait while Covid went down around here, I placed my order last week via one of the managers I have been in touch with about speeds and pricing etc.

Getting an email this morning I was excited to find out when the installation was going to happen, But that was not to be.

We are sorry you Can NOT Order FTTP as you were once an Eclipse customer .. 
What the  >:D  >:( >:D  >:(

'My Heart Sank'.   :(

I sent an email to Kcom's CEO to ask what's going on.

I know a lot of you will say go to another ISP.

My Problem, Between all my 'Users' on our accounts we have Hundreds of emails with different people, Firms, Hotels etc, etc. yes I know you can get free email address, it would be a daunting task to change them all, also I have other free websites hosting and 40 hrs of free phone calls as well with Eclipse-Kcom

The easy thing to do was to stop with Kcom as we need port 25 to get the emails though a email browser.

My plan was to Get FTTP from Kcom, Stop the ADSL" service then once it's all working ok to get VOIP and that would mean I could also get rid of the BT landline, total saving for both around £702 per year.

It now looks like I might have to keep the BT phone line and the ADSL2 service, then Also go with another FTTP supplier.

So one ADSL2 Kcom with fixed IP address's
Also one FTTP from another ISP also with fixed IP address's.....Hows that going to work ?

This is going to more than double the costs to get a decent internet service.  :o

With my Own CBT in the manhole near our farm gates with Two lit up ports BT Openreach made it an easy 1 step connection job, The only thing stopping me getting a good internet connection is Kcom.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 07, 2021, 07:15:32 AM
Surely if you got FTTP while ADSL was still active it would effectively be a new account so you couldn't necessarily transfer all your old accounts stuff over anyway?  Or am I misunderstanding how all this works?
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tubaman on April 07, 2021, 09:14:51 AM
I know it's not much consolation, but the issue with being stuck to an ISP because of your email is exactly why I changed all of mine to gmail many years ago. Yes it was painful having to change the email address with lots of companies, but you only have to do it once and then the issue is gone. Some ISPs do allow you to continue using their email if you are no longer a customer, sometimes for a fee, but looking at your thread from a couple of years ago - https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,23154.0.html - it appears that Kcom are very restrictive with how you can use their email services and that likely wouldn't be an option.
If it were me I'd take the one time painful hit for the freedom of choice in the future.
 :)
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 07, 2021, 09:39:12 AM
If it were me I'd take the one time painful hit for the freedom of choice in the future.
 :)

Especially as these are value-added features and they could decide to withdraw them at any time.  Better to change now at your own leisure, then potentially be forced into it later with an unknown deadline.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Ronski on April 07, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
As above, bite the bullet and start migrating all your emails etc. You've fallen into a trap that many do, and it can only get worse, what would happen if they decided to no longer have an email service?

 I was lucky and registered my own domain name very early on, and used that to setup forwarding addresses to my ISP, then a few years ago setting up proper hosted email was very straight forward.

Register you're own domain name, you can then use that with any email service provider, which gives you almost total control. There is a user on here that offers a very good deal for forum members, sorry can't remember his username, pretty sure his name is John though.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: parkdale on April 07, 2021, 12:09:44 PM
I second John (d2d4j) as well, he had me setup and running within a day after my last ISP decided to drop personal domains >:(. I can PM his number/email to you if you wish.
He is very nice to chat to, no problem getting you going if things go pear shaped  ;) I do have a Gmail address as well to act as a safety net to my accounts.
I love the flexibility to create personalised emails for the family. And you only have to do this once... it's time to rip the plaster off ;D
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: g3uiss on April 07, 2021, 12:43:54 PM
I second John (d2d4j)

I would add my vote for that solution. Great organisation, good product and ever so helpful
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: jelv on April 07, 2021, 04:48:27 PM
+4 for John (d2d4j). See https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18530.msg334345.html#msg334345
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: atkinsong on April 07, 2021, 05:26:09 PM
+ 5 for John!
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: vic0239 on April 07, 2021, 05:58:31 PM
and a vote from me as well, +6!
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on April 07, 2021, 08:38:30 PM
Update, My email to the CEO has got an investigation going on at Eclipse-Kcom (Business) isp, I have got a fibre upgrade button on my account settings and never pressed it till today as one of the managers was putting the upgrade order though, It showed what services could be had at our address FTTP was one of them but did not seemed to be linked in to upgrade to it.
It could just be a Data glitch, I have never had any problems that could not be sorted out with Kcom, they are not the cheapest though.

I hear what you say about emails, Yes I know about John.
I doubt if Kcom would ever do away with emails or domains as they host them on there servers.

We can have 10 emails accounts each now with any amount of 'Aliases' .
  we also have a 'Catch all' on the email system, that's if someone spells  my name wrong and as long as they have 'Domain name' correct eg the bit after the @ it still finds me. very useful, also very useful if I am in a shop and want to send me an email I can just make any email address up like carpet@mydomain.co.uk and it finds me .

I also do have my own domain name if I wanted to use if for emails.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 07, 2021, 09:50:21 PM
None of that is hard to setup but the problem with catch-alls is you get a lot more spam that way, its advised to avoid them for that reason.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: jelv on April 08, 2021, 12:26:37 AM
As standard John's system allows 50 mailboxes, including a catch all.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Chrysalis on April 08, 2021, 12:43:03 AM
Either buy your own domain or use a long stable email provider such as gmail.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tubaman on April 08, 2021, 12:06:32 PM
Whether you get the FTTP issue sorted with KCom or not I'd still be seriously looking to move away from their email service. At present you are effectively locked to them and I'm sure they know that in the pricing they offer to you.
It is a big pain to sort but in the long run I don't think you'll regret doing it.
 :)
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tiffy on April 08, 2021, 12:29:10 PM
Totally agree with all regarding use of ISP's dedicated e-mail service.
I was with Plusnet for 11 years and foolishly used their e-mail system almost exclusively.

When things started going wrong with Plusnet late 2018 and didn't look like there was going to be any improvement (ever) I started to migrate my e-mail contacts to a well known free public provider, inconvenient but well worth the effort and certainly helped with an painless ISP migration when the time came around.

I also used John's (d2d4j) service for a year and have nothing but praise, fantastically helpfull, very knowledgable.
However, I could not justify the (all be it) very modest yearly outlay and found that a free public e-mail provider was sufficient for my requirements.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on April 22, 2021, 02:03:56 PM
Once you see you can order FTTP you think the long wait is over but when you place your order and it's KCOM my isp who is holding things up is not good. >:D

Today's update from Kcom ''our Technical Support Team are working to get this resolved but are experiencing issues''  :o  >:(
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Weaver on April 23, 2021, 02:58:06 AM
I agree with Tubaman. And guess what, I donít even follow my own advice. Andrews and Arnold sell separate email for a pound or so per month, so to me they are exactly just a separate email service provider. They also host a lot of my domains on their DNS servers and they re-register them too if you want, which is great for me because after earlier disasters with forgetting to pay for domain renewals and credit cards being evil, I now just get AA to pay for renewals and it comes out of my monthly bill so no more danger ever.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on May 11, 2021, 10:26:15 AM
[Moderator note: The following three posts have been split off from the "Journey to FTTP in Blyth, Northumberland" topic.]



Sent you a PM two weeks ago, if you get time please.  :hmm:
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Black Sheep on May 11, 2021, 04:17:47 PM
Sent you a PM two weeks ago, if you get time please.  :hmm:

Apologies for not replying to the PM - but I had noticed your query had A) been answered on the main forum anyway .... and B) HE Cablelinks are not in my portfolio. I wouldn't have a clue.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: niemand on May 11, 2021, 09:57:06 PM
Still stuck on KCom.

FTTP and running the copper service alongside?
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on May 12, 2021, 11:16:33 AM
Still stuck on KCom.
Yes  :( >:D    I am getting very **** off with them.

I feel another email to there CEO is due.
It's at the kcom Director level now, investigation why I can not order FTTP.
No one I talk to at kcom seem to know what the problem is, the technical team can not see any problems and they think the 'cablelinks' are already in place to the headend.
Other sales people have told me they do supply WBC FTTP in other parts of the uk other than Hull area.
Been told by the sales manager who was putting the FTTP order through that they have got to 'follow the rules' but would not explain.

Progress of a sort, Been talking to 'John' (d2d4j)  about email  :)

Once kcom release my domain I will put all the important emails to my own domain name and keep the kcom emails for say a year to to make sure that I have not missed any important one's.
Then get rid of Eclipse/Kcom.  ;D

I'm trying to get my domain name (which I have had for a number of years and never used  :o) away from from kcom but even that's taking a long time.


The problem I see if I order FTTP from 'another'  and running the copper service alongside?
I am going to get charged a 'Cease' payment on the ADSL2 when I leave Kcom  >:(


Thanks @ Black Sheep also mods for moving.  :)
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great, Now Second Computer Says NO.
Post by: tickmike on May 18, 2021, 10:03:59 PM
Next update.
Lady from Kcom phoned me up as basically told me (off the record  ;)) to go with another isp  :o
as it could be weeks/months before I will have any progress on them supplying FTTP.

So looking at
TTB
https://www.talktalkbusiness.co.uk/products/business-broadband-and-fibre/ultrafastfibre/

FTTP 100/20 Static IP, £29.95 month 2 year contract with 3 months free.

Placed an order.

Then they tell me they Can Not Supply me,    :( >:( feel like I have been here before.

The chap from TTB phones me up and we talk technical and he was impressed how much I know  ;D

He tells me they do not have any 'CableLinks' in the exchange and thinks it could be 2 or 3 weeks as there is a waiting list for the number of exchanges to be done by BT.

One day I will have FTTP, I hope.  :(
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Ronski on May 19, 2021, 03:44:26 PM
At least they could tell you why they can't supply you and give you an indication of time, so perhaps a step closer.
Title: Is This The Reason ?.
Post by: tickmike on May 20, 2021, 08:07:59 PM
So is this the reason I could not order FTTP ?.

Had an Kcom account message today.

We are writing to let you know about exciting changes happening here at Eclipse.
 
Currently you are invoiced by Eclipse, part of the KCOM group of companies who provide and support your services. There have been some changes behind the scenes and your contract and services will now be delivered by Eclipse Broadband Ltd, part of the Global 4 Group.
 
 services will continue as KCOM Group Ltd for a short period but will transfer to Eclipse within the next few months.

Decided to leave them soon, so good bye Kcom.
Link
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/05/kcom-sells-uk-broadband-isp-eclipse-internet-to-global-4-group.html (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/05/kcom-sells-uk-broadband-isp-eclipse-internet-to-global-4-group.html)
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: kitz on May 23, 2021, 12:45:23 AM
Was going to check if they offer FTTP, but their main site is down for me right now. 
I can't say I've heard much of them before other than Fleur Telecom... who dont have FTTP and quite expensive FTTC for residential.

>> is this the reason I could not order FTTP ?

I still think the reason will have been plain and simple that there is no cablelink in your exchange.  Unless its public from the start... in the case of mergers and takeovers, they are not allowed to announce anything or make any changes that indicate a buyout is going through.  It wouldn't alter any plans and decisions such as purchasing cablelinks are made usually well in (many months) advance.   If they were looking at purchasing a cablelink it would be made in the group name, not solely for the Eclipse based customers and they all would all share the same link.  In view of the small number of customers involves,  it would be too expensive for them to do else wise.

Quote
He tells me they do not have any 'CableLinks' in the exchange and thinks it could be 2 or 3 weeks as there is a waiting list for the number of exchanges to be done by BT.

It's down to the ISP to order them from Openreach.  A lead date is usually given at the time of ordering.
Unless is a local to the ISP coverage, TT are usually one of the first ISPs to start installing cablelinks.   Obviously BTw is usually the first.  Sorry I can't recall if you've tried with an ISP that uses BTw, which is perhaps an option if you are in a rush to move now that you know Eclipse has been sold. 
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 05, 2021, 09:42:57 PM
I keep asking different people at Eclipse/Kcom about why I could not order FTTP.
Got this bit of interesting info from one chap.

''Unfortunately the Eclipse brand under KCOM never released an FTTP product''

Looks like Eclipse was never integrated into Kcom.

As you know I am now trying to get FTTP from Talktalk Business, so the saga with them continues, I phoned them up on there direct to the FTTP team 0800 131 3000  and they have had to contact BT Openreach to confirm that I could get FTTP, They told them I could from January 2021, but there internal TTB checker does not show it yet  >:D although he used the BT checker and he could see I can get it but again he could not order it until the TTB checker says I have it . >:(

One day  :-\
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: j0hn on June 06, 2021, 12:05:34 PM
The thing about all this is... Kcom can provide you with FTTP. They always could.
They sell OpenReach FTTP nationwide over BT Wholesale.

They couldn't let you order FTTP because they were in the process of selling the Eclipse business to a 3rd party, including your contract.

If your next door neighbor tried to join Kcom Business FTTP tomorrow they would likely accept their order.

If you tried to join Kcom Business FTTP tomorrow (as a new customer) it would likely be rejected.

The company buying the Eclipse brand will have a no compete clause preventing KCom taking back any of the customers they just sold for a minimum time period.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: burakkucat on June 06, 2021, 03:47:55 PM
. . . I am now trying to get FTTP from Talktalk Business, so the saga with them continues, I phoned them up on there direct to the FTTP team 0800 131 3000  and they have had to contact BT Openreach to confirm that I could get FTTP, They told them I could from January 2021, but there internal TTB checker does not show it yet  >:D although he used the BT checker and he could see I can get it but again he could not order it until the TTB checker says I have it . >:(

I have my suspicions that the delay could be due to the presence/absence of the cablelinks. Maybe TTB have submitted a purchase order and are waiting for it to be fulfilled.  :-\
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 08, 2021, 11:24:59 AM
First I want thank 'John (d2d4j)' for helping me move my domain from Eclipse/Kcom and getting my emails up and running.
 


Well I feel things are progressing a bit with my FTTP order, last week I contacted in BT Openreach high level support and they confirmed FTTP was available since January 2021 for me and they let TTB know that, Then with that evidence I have just been told by TTB (by phone) that with it still not showing on there internal system but BT Wholesale have also confirmed it's available it's being escalated to there management to get it ordered for me ASAP.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Ronski on June 08, 2021, 01:29:43 PM
Good news that you've migrated your domain and emails, once you do manage to get FTTP it will give you the freedom to change provider come contract renewal.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 08, 2021, 02:37:11 PM
Good news that you've migrated your domain and emails, once you do manage to get FTTP it will give you the freedom to change provider come contract renewal.

Yes John was very helpful, I did a test with my phone when we went to 'Rutland' the other week for a walk, using one of my new emails addresses and using the Range Rovers 'WiFi Hot Spot' to send my first email away from home.  ;D

I am keeping my Eclipse ADSL2 connection for maybe 6 month/a year along with my new FTTP (that's if I ever get it  :-\ ) so I can gradually move my important emails over.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: burakkucat on June 08, 2021, 03:43:15 PM
I wonder if it is just that TalkTalk now need to purchase one (or more) suitable sized cablelinks at the headend exchange?  :-\

Perhaps that is the reason why the product does not yet show as available to order at your address in the TTB internal system.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 08, 2021, 03:54:58 PM
@ Mr Cat
I have asked TTB this morning about cablelinks  and was told it's not the problem.
Not long got this from them.

Good afternoon,
I am still awaiting confirmation as to when the FTTP ordering system is going to be updated. Thank you so much for your patience, be rest assured I am working on it and I will provide an update soon.
Kind regards,
BUSINESS FULL FIBRE

The chap from BT Openreach thinks the CP's are not updating there data bases quick enough as the are more and more FTTP PON's being lit every day and are ready to order, he says he is seeing it a lot with other cp's.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: burakkucat on June 08, 2021, 04:01:49 PM
That is certainly good news.  :)

From the "tingles in my whiskers" I now sense that you will soon be connected.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 08, 2021, 04:19:53 PM
That is certainly good news.  :)

From the "tingles in my whiskers" I now sense that you will soon be connected.

No that just static on your whiskers, you have been to close to man made fibres again.  ;D

Pigs might fly  :-\  .....  there's one one the horizon  :o
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: j0hn on June 08, 2021, 04:32:48 PM
The chap from BT Openreach thinks the CP's are not updating there data bases quick enough as the are more and more FTTP PON's being lit every day and are ready to order, he says he is seeing it a lot with other cp's.

That's definitely not the reason for Talktalks general unavailability.

If you check any other address on your exchange that has FTTP available you will find they also show unavailable with Talktalk.

Talktalk availability checker updates automatically as each PON shows availability.
If Talktalk are selling FTTP on an exchange, the day it goes live to order it is usually available from Talktalk.

They weren't available on my exchange at all for FTTP.
It was lack of cablelink.
Soon as the cablelink was installed they were available on every FTTP address on the exchange.
As PONs as marked available in my area they are automatically available on the Talktalk FTTP checker.

You posted last week that they told you it WAS lack of a cablelink.
They don't know their ar*e from there elbow.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 08, 2021, 10:12:42 PM
Now I've got anxiety that when I finally see CBT on my pole, Zen wont be able to order because TalkTalk are so slow at upgrading the exchange.

Although I suppose they might provision with BTW then move over to TT once the cable link is installed?
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOW Have FTTP, :) .
Post by: tickmike on June 11, 2021, 09:54:07 PM
The Talktalk Business computer now says you can HAVE FTTP on the 24th June 2021  :thumbs: :dance: :yay:

When I was talking to the chap setting the order up today I did a bit of digging to try and find out what the problem was.
He said there system has a file called 'Flat' file  :-\ and it should get updated regularly with all the latest updates from BT Openreach for the new PON's going live daily, but what they are finding (as in my case) this automatic system just does not seem to work and area's of the country are not getting updated.
So in my case once they had evidence from BT Openreach they updated it manually and that update came through today.  ;D.
Sometimes it's the 'Cablelink' missing but not so in my case.

Only ordered 100/20 which is a world away from my current ADSL2 3/0.7 on a good day with the wind blowing.


That is certainly good news.  :)

From the "tingles in my whiskers" I now sense that you will soon be connected.
   Got to give credit to your Whiskers  :D
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOW Have FTTP, :) .
Post by: burakkucat on June 11, 2021, 10:25:25 PM
Got to give credit to your Whiskers  :D

Thank you. I have spent a number of years "tuning" them to ignore the irrelevant "background buzz" and just select the latent positives!

Your experience of the installation will require documentation in a new thread. Which I will follow, with interest.  :)
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 16, 2021, 09:27:29 PM
From the phone call from TTB today his computer now says yet again you can NOT have FTTP :-\. here we go again . >:D
Guess what now they tried to place the order they now decided that there is NO cablelinks in the exchange  :no: :o :(
He said maybe try another CP.  :wall:

Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: meritez on June 16, 2021, 11:54:35 PM
From the phone call from TTB today his computer now says yet again you can NOT have FTTP :-\. here we go again . >:D
Guess what now they tried to place the order they now decided that there is NO cablelinks in the exchange  :no: :o :(
He said maybe try another CP.  :wall:

@tickmike, TTB are losing business this way, you can go to to another carrier who uses BT Wholesale for backhaul, and you would have an FTTP connection within a minimum of 5 days
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 17, 2021, 10:13:21 AM
@tickmike, TTB are losing business this way, you can go to to another carrier who uses BT Wholesale for backhaul, and you would have an FTTP connection within a minimum of 5 days

Yes that's what I thought but how do I find out who uses BT Wholesale backhaul ?.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: niemand on June 17, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
Although I suppose they might provision with BTW then move over to TT once the cable link is installed?

Provision on BTW and leave it there for at least the year to see out the contract or provision to their own Plexus network. They aren't reliant on TTB for FTTP. I've Zen tails over BTW and Plexus.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: meritez on June 17, 2021, 10:42:19 AM
Yes that's what I thought but how do I find out who uses BT Wholesale backhaul ?.

Are you after business or residential?
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 17, 2021, 11:02:18 AM
Business + Static IP
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: kitz on June 18, 2021, 09:23:04 PM
I said about a month ago I suspected it was the lack of cable-link.
   
Seems like everyone at TT is running around telling you different stories - anything but admit that they havent yet got around to installing a link at your exchange yet.   The longer they string you along with different stories, the longer it delays and stops you going else-where.   Rubbish about a flat file.  Openreach update all ISPs asap - its in their interest to do so, in order that the CPs can place cablelink orders so Openreach can start earning money. 

I do not believe for one minute that if your PON was active since January and their system is saying no, its for any other reason than their back-haul provider doesn't have a cable-link or they aren't selling the product.   

Openreach themselves, as much said this was the case on June 8th. 
I did ask back in May if you'd actually tried to see if you could place the order with a BTw based ISP if you were in that much of a hurry to get FTTC.

I wasnt watching too closely, because I was in hospital for a few months after we went live,  but I think it took TT about 7-8 months to provision a cable-link to my area.   It took about 6m for other CPs to start adding cable-links and for the first months my only option was BTw based. About 10m later and Vodafone still dont have a cablelink here.    Their systems wont let you order unless the CP has an active cable link.

As regards to the KCOM info about 'not being integrated' I think thats untrue.   Way back in April, Kcom and Eclipse consumers were sharing the same cablelinks..  so I suspect it will have been yet another case of no cable-link with them too.  I said in my earilier post, it was too far ahead of the publicised date of sale, companies are not allowed to start pre-sectioning accounts off like that.  It would arise too suspision amongst staff and others that a sale was about to go through and could cause serious problems re share price speculation.   Things like that trigger insider dealer and inside knowledge allegations.

You may have missed my post in May when I asked about trying with a BTw based provider.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: meritez on June 18, 2021, 09:51:38 PM
Business + Static IP

Gamma would be able to provide both
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: burakkucat on June 18, 2021, 11:52:10 PM
Gamma would be able to provide both

Hmm . . . Do you have a link, please?  :-\

Performing a search, I find Gamma Mobile (https://www.gamma.co.uk/) and Gamma Communications plc (https://www.gammacommunicationsplc.com/).
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 19, 2021, 10:19:21 AM
Thanks, will look into them later.

I did a bit of probing around yesterday using the TTB free phone number 0800 231 5951 to try to find out what TTB  policy is for the cablelinks, the various departments I got through to it was obvious that not many people knew what they are for or anything about them let alone ordering them not even the person in the provisioning department who place the orders to BTW who tried to tell me it was BT Openreach fault.
I get the feeling there are only one or two people registered to access the BT Wholesale portal to do the ordering.
So getting nowhere  I fired an email to TT (Talktalk) CEO, who is also the CEO of TTB (Talktalk Business)
Tristia Harrison    tristia.harrison@talktalkplc.com
To get someone to look into if it worth me hanging around for a bit or looking for anther CP (communications Provider).
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: meritez on June 19, 2021, 12:02:55 PM
Hmm . . . Do you have a link, please?  :-\

Performing a search, I find Gamma Mobile (https://www.gamma.co.uk/) and Gamma Communications plc (https://www.gammacommunicationsplc.com/).

https://www.gamma.co.uk/solutions/connectivity/

They use both ttb and btw for backhaul.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: j0hn on June 19, 2021, 03:11:19 PM
As regards to the KCOM info about 'not being integrated' I think thats untrue.   Way back in April, Kcom and Eclipse consumers were sharing the same cablelinks..  so I suspect it will have been yet another case of no cable-link with them too.

I don't think that was the original issue.

As I said above KCom use BT Wholesale (and possibly others too). They sold off much of their national network in 2015. (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/12/cityfibre-secure-gbp180m-financing-and-grabs-kcoms-uk-network-assets.html)

KCom Business FTTP (via OpenReach GEA-FTTP) is more than likely available at tickmike's address over BT Wholesale Cablelinks.

KCom have never sold GEA-FTTP to their Eclipse Business customers. The product has never been available.
KCom Business have been selling it for some time though.

The issue is simply he's an Eclipse customer.
KCom were also in the process of selling off the Eclipse business when he tried to sign up.
They have now completed that sale.

A quick call/email to KCom as a potential business customer would soon find out if they are actually available or not.

Even if they are available they may have a non compete clause with whoever just bought the Eclipse business (and also bought tickmike as a customer).

I completely agree with your other comments about the "flat file". My experience is in areas where Talktalk sell FTTP they update availability for PON's that go active automatically.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: kitz on June 19, 2021, 07:55:44 PM
>> KCom have never sold GEA-FTTP to their Eclipse Business customers.

Sorry my misunderstanding, I thought with tickmike saying he'd tried to order the product, that they had made it available.

>> BT Wholesale (and possibly others too)

afaik, Eclipse and those KCom users who are outside of the Hull area used the same network, so it was natural to think that if they were selling FTTP that they would also be sharing the same cablelink  or (btw) hostlink.

Still think TT are giving him the run around trying to delay placing the order.   Most of their frontline staff wont have a clue what he's talking about as they have little idea of how the network runs.   I know someone who supposedly is 2nd line support for FTTP at TT,  and I bet he doesn't have a clue about half of the things we discuss on here such as cablelinks or layer 2 switches.  You'd be lucky if they know what SNRM is. :(     If I was in a rush I'd be trying other ISPs

Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: burakkucat on June 19, 2021, 09:38:30 PM
I wonder what would be the result of asking A&A if they could provide a FTTP service? As far as I am aware, A&A use both TTB & BTW.  :-\
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: meritez on June 19, 2021, 10:31:11 PM
I wonder what would be the result of asking A&A if they could provide a FTTP service? As far as I am aware, A&A use both TTB & BTW.  :-\

A&A only offer 80 or 160 FTTP, Gamma offer up to 1000/220.
If you wanted 330/50 A&A is not an option.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: burakkucat on June 19, 2021, 10:50:17 PM
A&A only offer 80 or 160 FTTP, Gamma offer up to 1000/220.

I was just thinking that A&A would certainly find the answer regarding the presence/absence of TTB cablelinks.  ;)
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 21, 2021, 08:20:40 PM
Not had any response or acknowledgement from TTB CEO yet.  :(
TTB FTTP ordered 3 times failed 3 times, they have told me to look else where.
The Eclipse FTTP was ordered several times but would not go through, Was it the sale of Eclipse  :shrug2:, who knows, I did email the new owner of Eclipse (global4) and he could not be bothered to answer me, so he can keep his FTTP.  >:D
Kcom and Eclipse (there non Hull area customers) do both sell FTTP, I was told I could move to Kcom and order FTTP but as I am not a big enough company it would be rejected.

re A&A = expensive, Gamma = no prices on there website, I have a list of few other smaller firms to try.
I do not need 1000/220 but any speed above my 2.5/0.7 will be good. maybe 100/20 or even 80/20 It the reliability factor that I want and to 'Future Proof' my Internet connection to these properties I have been building myself for 30 years  :-\  Estate agents are saying FTTP is adding £2000 to £3000 on house properties in certain area's  ;D
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: gt94sss2 on June 21, 2021, 08:31:38 PM
Business + Static IP

Have you considered Zen, BT or someone like Uno Broadband?
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: tickmike on June 21, 2021, 09:00:30 PM
Zen is on my list.
Think it was idnet and uno that are 'dormant' companies  :-\
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: gt94sss2 on June 22, 2021, 12:08:59 AM
Think it was idnet and uno that are 'dormant' companies  :-\

Having just found your thread about dormant companies..

I believe Uno is https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09262166 and IDNet is
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03105579 - neither of which appear dormant at first glance.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: j0hn on June 22, 2021, 12:16:06 PM
The Eclipse FTTP was ordered several times but would not go through, Was it the sale of Eclipse  :shrug2:, who knows, I did email the new owner of Eclipse (global4) and he could not be bothered to answer me, so he can keep his FTTP.  >:D
Kcom and Eclipse (there non Hull area customers) do both sell FTTP, I was told I could move to Kcom and order FTTP but as I am not a big enough company it would be rejected.

Earlier in the thread you wrote.

I keep asking different people at Eclipse/Kcom about why I could not order FTTP.
Got this bit of interesting info from one chap.

''Unfortunately the Eclipse brand under KCOM never released an FTTP product''

Looks like Eclipse was never integrated into Kcom.

Sounds like they don't have a clue if they sell it or not.

It's certainly not something that's available on their website.
It only has ADSL1, Fibre 1 and Fibre 2 as an option.
Their website has no availability checker tthough

I was an Eclipse ADSL customer nearly 20 years ago.
It looks like KCom have somewhat neglected the Eclipse brand. The website looks very dated. They used to be a great ISP.
Title: Re: The Computer Says You Can NOT Have FTTP, Great !.
Post by: NEXUS2345 on July 06, 2021, 10:42:24 AM
Zen is on my list.
Think it was idnet and uno that are 'dormant' companies  :-\

I can assure you that both uno and IDNet are very active at the moment. I just had a new FTTP service on BT Wholesale go live at my new house in Sheffield on their 1000/115 package and am easily getting over 700Mbps using WiFi 6 2x2 80MHz. I have yet to test with a wired connection (laptop issues) but will be doing so tonight. I have found IDNet have very good support via email if you have questions and their availability checker is extremely detailed. When I used it, it was able to list everything including the ONT serial number!

I can also highly recommend Zen as I was a customer for many years, though their customer service has grown somewhat less technically inclined since I joined them which is why I am using alternate providers now. My grandparents had a service with uno for a short time and it proved reliable with good technical support, though they also use TalkTalk Business on some of their packages so it may prove to be problematic.

If you have any questions regarding the installation of Openreach FTTP let me know, this is the second property I have been at with FTTP.