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Announcements => News Articles => Topic started by: Bowdon on March 13, 2021, 12:08:13 AM

Title: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Bowdon on March 13, 2021, 12:08:13 AM
Here is the story;

https://www.cityfibre.com/news/cityfibre-extend-world-class-infrastructure-216-additional-towns-villages-across-britain (https://www.cityfibre.com/news/cityfibre-extend-world-class-infrastructure-216-additional-towns-villages-across-britain)

Quote
CityFibre has identified 216 additional towns and villages that are to benefit from a Full Fibre rollout, completing the list of locations in its 4 billion nationwide investment programme. The locations selected will see CityFibre extend its networks to much smaller conurbations, bringing the benefits of Full Fibre to communities outside the UKs major towns and cities.

Have a look if your town or village is on the list;

http://www.cityfibre.com/rollout/ (http://www.cityfibre.com/rollout/)

There is a map and also some drop down geographic options.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: banger on March 13, 2021, 12:34:47 AM
Great my Village is on the list for Phase 1.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Weaver on March 13, 2021, 01:50:36 AM
How does this work? Is Cityfibre itself an ISP? Or a wholesale carrier/reseller for other ISP(s)? If the latter does the customer get some choice of ISP?

I would be praying that it is BT OR that eventually in the distant future implements FTTP here so that I get a completely free choice of ISPs.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 13, 2021, 02:04:25 AM
That's quite some rollout.  Is this duct/pole sharing or completely independent?

How does this work? Is Cityfibre itself an ISP? Or a wholesale carrier/reseller for other ISP(s)? If the latter does the customer get some choice of ISP?

Wholesale.

Quote
CityFibre is the UKs largest alternative provider of wholesale fibre network infrastructure and the builder of Gigabit Cities
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on March 13, 2021, 07:11:26 AM
How does this work? Is Cityfibre itself an ISP? Or a wholesale carrier/reseller for other ISP(s)? If the latter does the customer get some choice of ISP?

I would be praying that it is BT OR that eventually in the distant future implements FTTP here so that I get a completely free choice of ISPs.

Wholesaler for both business and consumer, although consumer needs its own build.

I believe vodafone have a timed exclusive? then after other providers can resell.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: meritez on March 13, 2021, 11:15:40 AM
List of city fibre resellers/partners here: https://www.cityfibre.com/partners/

I'm in a phase 1 area, Vodafone have advised a free upgrade as soon as they can.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: j0hn on March 13, 2021, 02:19:41 PM
I believe vodafone have a timed exclusive? then after other providers can resell.

Vodafone's exclusivity is up. Talktalk are being sold over much of CityFibre, as are Zen.
Different areas have different ISP's as exclusivity ends in different areas, confusing things for the early rollout.
Eventually every area will be the same.

Quote
Wholesaler for both business and consumer, although consumer needs its own build.

What do you mean by this? Don't they both need the same build?

If you mean that some business connections show available to you while residential doesn't (like from giga.net for example), they both need to physically build GPON to you before you can order a service.

The only difference between residential and business is the split ratio for GPON, but that's just a different Splitter card in the local cabinet they will install.
The method of the deployment is surely the same?
If you have CityFibre available and you order a business connection they don't build again.

Some Business connections can be built on demand without waiting for the residential rollout.

Their metro network is a completely separate beast.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 13, 2021, 08:10:22 PM
What an unhelpful website though, all we see is Phase 1 and Phase 2, no idea what is done, in progress, exactly when, where.  The enquiry even said my address isn't planned but its in Phase 1. :/

It makes Openreach look transparent in comparison, though admittedly Fibre First site say nothing about it coming to my address now either despite being on the map as to start within 3 months (which should mean about now).
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: banger on March 13, 2021, 11:40:05 PM
What an unhelpful website though, all we see is Phase 1 and Phase 2, no idea what is done, in progress, exactly when, where.  The enquiry even said my address isn't planned but its in Phase 1. :/

It makes Openreach look transparent in comparison, though admittedly Fibre First site say nothing about it coming to my address now either despite being on the map as to start within 3 months (which should mean about now).

My address also says the same, no plans but on the map shows Phase 1. No dates for phase 1.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 14, 2021, 12:24:50 AM
My address also says the same, no plans but on the map shows Phase 1. No dates for phase 1.

I was referring to Fibre First (Openreach) for my address, as that USED to say FTTP was coming soon before it was delayed a year which removed all reference on the address lookup, which remains missing today.

I didn't really expect CityFibre to say anything as they do not have any time frame specified, unlike Openreach which do.

I'm registered for updates on both now though.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on March 14, 2021, 05:12:08 AM

What do you mean by this? Don't they both need the same build?

If you mean that some business connections show available to you while residential doesn't (like from giga.net for example), they both need to physically build GPON to you before you can order a service.

The only difference between residential and business is the split ratio for GPON, but that's just a different Splitter card in the local cabinet they will install.
The method of the deployment is surely the same?
If you have CityFibre available and you order a business connection they don't build again.

Some Business connections can be built on demand without waiting for the residential rollout.

Their metro network is a completely separate beast.

In an older post I posted that no build was needed for me to order a business cityfibre based service from a business reseller (free install, fibre already under pavement in my street), Carl then explained it might be because in a consumer build extra work has to be done as to why I need to wait for the consumer build to be completed.  I cannot remember specifically what he said was involved in the extra work sadly.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: sdawson35 on March 14, 2021, 10:10:49 AM
I got excited when I saw this only to have that excitement dashed.
Where I live in Essex two towns were named as being part of the roll out, to get to these 2 towns you have to go through mine yet we are not on the list ......so we are stuck yet again with poor choice , speed and reliability.
CityFibre will not comment or at least have not commented as to how they choose which cities and why.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: antsly on March 15, 2021, 01:08:50 PM
I was referring to Fibre First (Openreach) for my address, as that USED to say FTTP was coming soon before it was delayed a year which removed all reference on the address lookup, which remains missing today.

I didn't really expect CityFibre to say anything as they do not have any time frame specified, unlike Openreach which do.

I'm registered for updates on both now though.

For what it's worth I'm also in Sheffield albeit on a different Fibre First exchange, I can practically see a fibre pole from my windows and there's no reference on the site to me getting it soon.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 15, 2021, 07:51:37 PM
For what it's worth I'm also in Sheffield albeit on a different Fibre First exchange, I can practically see a fibre pole from my windows and there's no reference on the site to me getting it soon.

I'm not concerned, just find it kinda nuts that a year ago it said I was getting it soon but when they removed it off the "to start in next 3 months" (they hit a power distribution issue in the exchange) that was removed, but now my exchange is back on the "to start in next 3 months" they haven't put the message back.

I guess they either can't be bothered to update it or realised it perhaps best to wait until its ACTUALLY ready.

CityFibre e-mail said "Unfortunately, we are not currently building in your area but we regularly announce new towns and cities across the country. We will keep you updated if there are any changes about the build in your area." though I guess that's fair as theres a TON of phase 1 areas and its fair to say they aren't building in my area yet.  Though weird to not at least say "its planned".
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on March 16, 2021, 02:39:54 PM
Their live checker isnt up to date I think, I know e.g. the consumer FTTP digging has started in my city, yet their checker says my area is in planning phase.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 16, 2021, 02:44:39 PM
I guess its fair enough, a low priority in a pandemic but you'd think it the sort of thing easy for staff to update at home.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on March 17, 2021, 10:16:21 AM
Their live checker isnt up to date I think, I know e.g. the consumer FTTP digging has started in my city, yet their checker says my area is in planning phase.

A little update., TBB has revealed there is live properties in my city now so looks like they activating piecemeal and it doesnt need to wait for the entire city to be done first.

Roadworks checker shows all the current work is been done opposite side of city however is 1 single roadworks sign for "planned" cityfibre work much nearer to me, not that close but at least on my side of the city.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 17, 2021, 07:22:51 PM
Seeing several roadworks here but that area already had Vodafone service.  My guess is they are doing the quickest, cheapest option of adding FTTP to the FTTC area first.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on May 03, 2021, 06:44:27 AM
Looking some more at the roadworks tracker, I fear the worst case senario is happened.

Imagine on a clock I am at the 10 position, the rollout starts at the 12 position and goes clockwise.  That appears to be whats going on :( the very brief one roadwork symbol that was nearer has had nothing replace it.  But the multiple symbols are moving in the fashion I mentioned with the clock analogy.  The only upside is its at least not that slow, I think if they do the inner city first round the clockwise it wont be that bad, but if they decide to work out before moving to my side I could well be right at the end of it year's away.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Ronski on May 03, 2021, 08:12:07 AM
We appear to have the same problem with OR FTTP roll out, our estate is DIG, or at least the final run to each house is , so we appear to be left to last, and if there is not enough money in the area budget then no FTTP.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Bowdon on May 03, 2021, 01:41:26 PM
At least two are on the clock. I'm still on a confused sun dial with no sun  :(

I think CityFibre have changed their roll outs as they still don't have Manchester as a Gigabit City. Also Oldham the next big town to me hasn't been announced yet, even though it was on the second phase of their original towns and village report they had comissioned.

I noticed on the ispreview forum site a few days ago someone posted up the next update for April 2021 list of OR exchanges (though apparently the list is being updated and a new list will come out shortly). But still nothing on that list for my area, and these are exchanges up to 2024.

I can understand the commercial sensitivity for the rollout information, though I'm sure a centralised system that locked in areas for different network builders could have been setup with the help of Ofcom. The whole Fibre rollout is blind for the consumer. We have no idea when we're going to be getting it, so can't plan. It's like a prison sentence but not knowing how long.

I wish there was more transparency. I don't mind waiting years as long as I know that by X year I'll have full fibre availability.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on May 03, 2021, 06:54:12 PM
CityFibre have already started on my exchange area, looking at one.network it appears they are replacing all their FTTC areas at the moment with FTTP which seems a sensible place to start.

No indication of when and where they will expand to.  Its more vague than Openreach as they don't even tell you the area, just the city.

Openreach seem to be running late again as its said "starting in the next 3 months" since around January.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on May 04, 2021, 01:33:18 AM
Alex use the FTTP zen checker, I noticed it says if its planned for your address.

Also my Mayor told me the entire city is been done.  So your Mayor/Councillor's might have more information.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on May 04, 2021, 05:12:02 PM
Alex use the FTTP zen checker, I noticed it says if its planned for your address.

Also my Mayor told me the entire city is been done.  So your Mayor/Councillor's might have more information.

What FTTP checker is that?  The post code checker says nothing of FTTP for my post code.

I'm reasonably certain it will and even if not I know Openreach are, but gotta admit symmetrical for less than Openreach prices is darn appealing.  I'd possibly get both for resiliency.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on May 05, 2021, 07:20:13 AM
What FTTP checker is that?  The post code checker says nothing of FTTP for my post code.

I'm reasonably certain it will and even if not I know Openreach are, but gotta admit symmetrical for less than Openreach prices is darn appealing.  I'd possibly get both for resiliency.

I dont know if it works for openreach, but does for cityfibre, zen have their own FTTP checker.

Its here, but looks like they dumbed it down :(

https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/ultrafast-fibre-broadband/fullfibre900plus

Put postcode in, regardless if planned it now just dumps to register page, but if you in an area with no rollout it will add a sorry no fibre in your area, so it can still be used to at least confirm if the postcode is planned.  Just with the dumbed down result now.

Vodafone seem to have removed their gigafast page as well.

Also this.

https://www.cityfibre.com/residential/

That page just let me put in my details and cityfibre now claim they going to give me build updates from it, before it never offered me that.  I will report back if they send anything.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on May 05, 2021, 09:11:22 PM
Computer says no, but I honestly don't trust it.

Even Fibre First stopped saying it was coming soon after they delayed my exchange, despite the fact I have it confirmed directly from the Project Manager at Openreach that its coming. 

Quote
At the moment we are looking to start building the network from the start of 2021, however the build programme does run through to mid 2022 at the moment and we cannot say exactly where your premise sits in the build until we undertake access surveys which begin early 2021.

They just never updated the Fibre First page back to "coming soon" and I can't imagine CityFibre being any better.

The availability checkers just seem a low priority, possibly to avoid people badgering them about WHEN its coming. ;)
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: niemand on May 10, 2021, 04:53:56 PM
Correct. Openreach were bitten when they provided more specific information and again when they kept the availability checker more up to date.

In one case from people going to the ASA if timings slipped or changed, in the other people constantly bothering the NGA team because a checker's status changed.

I know of at least a couple of people that email Openreach whenever they see any change on availability checkers, and have escalated to executive team multiple times when they didn't like the answers.

Those are why we can't have nice things.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Starman on May 10, 2021, 11:12:43 PM
Interesting my town is in the stage 2 cityfibre roll out.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on May 11, 2021, 01:11:46 AM
Correct. Openreach were bitten when they provided more specific information and again when they kept the availability checker more up to date.

Though we seem to be in the bizarre situation now where the Fibre First page says nothing for my address, has shown my exchange as to start in the next 3 months for five months now, but the February PDF has hidden at the bottom Delayed due to operational reasons again.

Not sure how that is any sort of improvement.  If anything it makes me want to contact them again to complain about how confusing it all is.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 09, 2021, 06:25:54 PM
Email today from Zen

Quote

Hi Chris, get ready for the best...
Our Full Fibre 900 Plus service isnt available at your home just yet, but it's on its way!
While you wait, why not make the move to Zen and well upgrade you as soon as its ready - that's our Full fibre Promise*.
Just let us know youd like to make the upgrade and well sign you up to a short-term contract on our fastest available superfast connection. Youll get our award-winning service, UK support and no usage limits, and as soon as the upgrade is available to you well let you know and get you switched over.
   

Roadworks map shows a second cluster of cityfibre icons this side of city, not that near, but at least my side of city, if they move south as well as a bit nearer towards the city centre I think it could be during 2021.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: niemand on June 09, 2021, 07:14:33 PM
For those waiting on CityFibre in their city you can do a lot worse than search for words like data centre and variations on hvac and air conditioning in local planning portals.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 09, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Checked CityFibre yesterday, they are definitely doing bits of my exchange but so far its areas they already have FTTC.  Searching those post codes say its coming soon, searching mine says "no plans".  So I'm not holding my breath.

Then again searching my post code for Fibre First makes no mention either, despite the fact I know that is coming.  But then it did used to say it was, until it was delayed and they didn't add it back to the post code checker.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 13, 2021, 07:56:37 PM
For those waiting on CityFibre in their city you can do a lot worse than search for words like data centre and variations on hvac and air conditioning in local planning portals.

Thanks Carl, I had a look on the keywords, no dice, but the icons on the roadwork map are heading right in my direction.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: skyeci on June 13, 2021, 08:38:15 PM
They have been installing cabinets and ducts/fibre in locksbrook road, bath the last couple of weeks. Straight over where VM went only a few months ago... ::)
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Aos6aXie on June 13, 2021, 10:25:55 PM
Thanks Carl, I had a look on the keywords, no dice, but the icons on the roadwork map are heading right in my direction.

You're in Leicester? If so, check application number 20191545 and 20200835.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 13, 2021, 11:22:03 PM
Thanks, the first one doesnt mention air condition until reading the document, not sure why I didnt see the second one though, but cityfibre is only mentioned in the document rather than the search results.  First is somewhere in the city centre, other is to the far east, these dont seem related to roadworks but rather needing approval for noisy equipment.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: niemand on June 14, 2021, 01:49:31 PM
I should have made clear I was referring to it arriving in the city full stop, hence 'in their city' rather than 'in their street' or whatever.

CityFibre nearly always have to either build new premises or upgrade them as they're repurposing, both of which require planning.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 23, 2021, 11:33:41 AM
The roadworks are moving in another direction again, but here is some not so good news from zen, I asked zen to look into it for me given I had had a "coming soon" email.

They got a reply back from cityfibre stating there is no planned date, I know that could mean they just dont want to commit to anything but would think if it was happening soon they would say so.

cityfibre checker has changed to "building in your area but we need landlords permission" bizzare. (looks like they assume if a flat is in your name and you not the home owner they need to treat it as a HMO), next door neighbour gets been planned instead of been built.

main road not far from me (5 minutes) has it enabled.  Where they appeared a few weeks back.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 29, 2021, 05:49:57 AM
A little update, I didnt plan to keep checking so often but since I have a dsl fault, I looked again.

I will speculate if no new clusters of roadworks appear I am at least several months away now from been available.

However I can see a pattern emerging.

They started initially in North East of city, then that cluster worked eastwards.
A new cluster appeared a few weeks ago North West of city and is moving north.
A third cluster now appeared this week in South East of city, no idea yet of its direction, but wouldnt surprise me if moves south.
If a fourth cluster was to appear in the South West, that would be my area.  They not circling round but starting at a point near city centre (in residential areas), and then moving in a direction to the edge of the city.

I expect when any of these clusters reach the edge then they zig zag back.

So yes i am in the only corner of the immediate area around the city that has no ongoing/completed works.

I just wish cityfibre would publicise the schedule or at least the order of areas completed but it seems the telco companies all want to operate in as much secrecy as possible.  They are easy to contact though and dont hide away like openreach, I was able to resolve the landlord issue on their checker e.g.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 30, 2021, 02:05:33 AM
Indeed its very confusing, as they are doing my exchange but all I can see so far is they are converting their existing FTTC areas to FTTP, no idea if they are expanding further than that.  AFAIK that's a really tiny area as they did it because Openreach neglected to.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 30, 2021, 09:22:39 AM
Scratch that, according to their own promotional video:
Quote
We build for the whole city, street by street
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsxGQso1bbM
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 30, 2021, 09:28:12 AM
Dont think cityfibre even do FTTC? they are a FTTP company.

My street is definitely getting the service, confirmed by both cityfibre and Zen, the issue is the schedule.

I may move this to FTTP section later, as I noticed now kitz added it.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 30, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
Dont think cityfibre even do FTTC? they are a FTTP company.

It seems I got my wires crossed between the deal Vodafone had with CityFibre to exclusively use their FTTP network (no longer the case) and Vodafones own FTTC network, thinking THAT was run by CityFibre.

Its still curious they are doing those areas first though.

Telecoms is so darn convoluted in this country its hard to keep up, but then far preferable to the horrible situation in the USA.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on June 30, 2021, 01:17:06 PM
Yeah customer facing isps like zen, vodafone etc. will have multiple suppliers, to them cityfibre is just a supplier, they may use one supplier for one product and another supplier for another.  Zen even have two FTTP suppliers as they also sell openreach FTTP.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 30, 2021, 01:34:01 PM
Its a race to see if CityFibre comes here first or Openreach, either way I plan to stick with Zen.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: niemand on June 30, 2021, 11:51:23 PM
Yeah customer facing isps like zen, vodafone etc. will have multiple suppliers, to them cityfibre is just a supplier, they may use one supplier for one product and another supplier for another.  Zen even have two FTTP suppliers as they also sell openreach FTTP.

Zen actually use 4 suppliers for FTTP. CityFibre and Openreach handing off at layer 2 to their Plexus network and BT Wholesale and TalkTalk Business handing off PPP sessions via BRAS.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on July 01, 2021, 09:17:09 AM
Zen actually use 4 suppliers for FTTP. CityFibre and Openreach handing off at layer 2 to their Plexus network and BT Wholesale and TalkTalk Business handing off PPP sessions via BRAS.

Surely that's still only two suppliers for the actual FTTP as that's the bit from the ONT to the  OLT.  Anything past that point I'd consider something else.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on July 07, 2021, 03:33:49 PM
Ok I filled in the cityfibre form asking them to provide more info and they rang me back this morning.

Sadly been told its a year "minimum" before they do my street.  So at least I know where I stand now, and plans to move might resume.

They have pretty much started works in all other areas of the city close to it except my side, so I was hoping it would be sooner, but seems thats not the case, I prefer knowing this however instead of checking the roadworks every week with false hope.

Zen I think were a bit wrong to send me the coming soon email to get me onto vdsl with them when its still a year plus away, but it is what it is.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Bowdon on July 21, 2021, 12:54:48 PM
As you say @Chrysalis at least you have a time frame now.

1 or even 2 years isn't a long time to wait compared to other places.

My area isn't on any lists from any network provider so far, so you're doing well.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: Chrysalis on July 21, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
True its better than by 2024/2025.

Plus I know I will be able to get proper gigabit up and down.
Title: Re: Cityfibre announces 200+ new towns and villages.
Post by: kitz on July 22, 2021, 11:11:12 AM
Whilst I can see what you are getting at meaning the street service, I think I'd still class it as 4 ways of provisioning the FTTP service as a whole. 
The devil is in the detail, but it was made clear where the point of handover is. AAISP may also state they provision FTTC using TTB or BTw.   

However, back to the mention of Zen's Plexus network - I wanted to make sure Chrys' topic was done with before taking it slightly off track - but because it had been mentioned, I just wondered thought's about Zen's usage of Huawei kit in Plexus.   

Personally I'm not fussed either way, but I wondered if it has at least crossed other peoples minds about controversy about Huawei not just for 5G.. or the Core... but even the uncertainty around the statement of "No Huawei equipment in the whole of telecoms infrastructure across the whole of the UK" when referring to even Access and the DSLAMs.

Does it not matter because Zen isn't the incumbent?  Yet even so they still have a chunk of business type users.  Then again it's not like they supply to govt.  There are so many but ifs, buts, what ifs and how comes that it's impossible for me to mention them all.