Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: jelv on February 16, 2021, 10:54:50 PM

Title: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 16, 2021, 10:54:50 PM
A friend is getting speeds less than he should.

Current set up (see attached):T elephone duplex adapter plugged in to master with (1) Dangly filter in to which DECT base station is plugged and (2) Telephone extension cable (believed to be flat not twisted pair) to office upstairs - it has three cores connected (i.e. bell wire!) In the office he has a filter with his router and a hard wired telephone handset which he wishes to keep.

He's happy to run a UTP 2x2 cable upstairs so I'm suggesting be replaces the front plate on the master with a filtered face plate in to which he can plug the DECT base station (data socket left empty). One pair of the replacement cable connected as telephone extension and the other pair connected to the data connections to corresponding sockets upstairs.

I've lost track of which are the recommended filtered face plates now - NTE 5C MK4?

Can someone point me to a suitable unit for upstairs? I think I've seen modular units before - is there a ready made one with data and telephone (no filter)?
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: burakkucat on February 16, 2021, 11:49:24 PM
A 32 year old NTE5/A is far preferable to the current NTE5C. (The NTE5/A fitted in "The Cattery" is about 39 years old!  :D  )

He will need to source a Mk 3 SSFP to fit the NTE5/A. (The Mk 4 SSFP, which fits the NTE5C, is identical in components but inferior in build quality.) Here is an example (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BT-Openreach-VDSL-Faceplate-MK3-For-NTE5a-Master-Socket-BNIB/184662298754), on eBay.

For the upstairs office, I will suggest --
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 17, 2021, 03:58:23 PM
Thanks for that.

Where the cable run ideally has to go is partly under carpet so he was thinking of routing a channel across the floor so it is less vulnerable. To minimise the size of the channel using as thin as possible cable would be preferable. As he only needs 2 pairs, do you know if there is such a thing as 4-core, if so is it any good and where can you get it from? I've already told him that people frequently use CAT 5e which will have more pairs than he needs.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: licquorice on February 17, 2021, 04:03:21 PM
CW1308 from all the usual sources.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: burakkucat on February 17, 2021, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: jelv on February 17, 2021, 03:58:23 PM
. . . he only needs 2 pairs, do you know if there is such a thing as 4-core, if so is it any good and where can you get it from?

I will recommend using the "proper stuff". I.e. CW1308 specification cable, containing two twisted pairs. It will either have wires blue & orange --> pair one and green & brown --> pair two OR blue/white stripe & white/blue stripe --> pair one and orange/white stripe & white/orange stripe --> pair two.

[b*cat notes that the trotters were faster than the paws!  :D  ]
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on February 17, 2021, 09:18:30 PM
Quote from: jelv on February 17, 2021, 03:58:23 PM
Where the cable run ideally has to go is partly under carpet so he was thinking of routing a channel across the floor

I'd be cautious of doing something like that, might not meet building regulations.  If you're messing with the floor anyway its best to take it underneath or run it along skirting boards.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 20, 2021, 11:04:33 AM
Does the CW1308 specification allow for flat (untwisted) cables or does it have to be twisted?
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 20, 2021, 11:47:52 AM
What was ordered: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15m-BT-Telephone-Cable-CW1308-2-Pair-4-Wire-White-Internal-Phone-Cable-Clips/273734332250?fbclid=IwAR2OocuunN8IP7zSyrJVqomZXnvDXmGDVd1Sm6f-Lvfxr3a4tCMYGxWhjj8

Photo of what was received attached.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: RealAleMadrid on February 20, 2021, 12:05:27 PM
Oh no, that looks a bit flat. It certainly isn't CW1308 which is round and has twisted pairs. Send it back. >:(
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: tubaman on February 20, 2021, 12:12:03 PM
Quote from: RealAleMadrid on February 20, 2021, 12:05:27 PM
Oh no, that looks a bit flat. It certainly isn't CW1308 which is round and has twisted pairs. Send it back. >:(
Agree - you don't wanting to be using that as an extension cable as it'll likely degrade the signal.
 :(
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 20, 2021, 12:38:48 PM
The description on eBay includes
Quote
PLEASE NOTE WE TAKE OUT OF RETAIL PACKAGING TO SAVE POSTAGE COSTS

Like hell they do - the cores aren't even the same colouring as the picture on eBay.

I think they probably buy the cheapest they can in bulk and cut to length.

I told him to send it back straight away.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: Ronski on February 20, 2021, 12:45:50 PM
Hopefully as item not as described, that way he doesn't have to pay the postage.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: 4candles on February 20, 2021, 07:06:15 PM
I'd only use a known reputable supplier for CW 1308 - been caught out in the past with round, twisted pair that looked just the part, but a resistance test on the reel showed it was probably copper-clad aluminium.   >:D
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: burakkucat on February 20, 2021, 08:08:13 PM
Quote from: 4candles on February 20, 2021, 07:06:15 PM
. . . a resistance test on the reel showed it was probably copper-clad aluminium.   >:D

The other supply scam is copper-clad steel.  >:(
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on February 20, 2021, 08:17:06 PM
Quote from: burakkucat on February 20, 2021, 08:08:13 PM
The other supply scam is copper-clad steel.  >:(

I have a 7m "CAT 7" from Amazon that is so stiff I wouldn't be surprised if its that.  It will only link at 5Gbit max which is highly suspect.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 21, 2021, 09:17:47 AM
Is there a BT/Openreach web page or downloadable document with a specification of CW1308?
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 21, 2021, 09:19:25 AM
A response from the seller:

Quote
"1308 is same as cat3 cable , it is not supposed to be twisted , but is ideal as an extension for broadband"
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: roseway on February 21, 2021, 09:44:52 AM
Utter nonsense >:(
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: tubaman on February 21, 2021, 12:32:02 PM
CW1308 is indeed a Cat3 cable but is also always twisted pair. That seller is talking rubbish.
 :)
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: burakkucat on February 21, 2021, 04:28:54 PM
Quote from: jelv on February 21, 2021, 09:17:47 AM
Is there a BT/Openreach web page or downloadable document with a specification of CW1308?

You should now have a PM, originating from "The Cattery".
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on February 21, 2021, 05:22:19 PM
Clearly states here CW1308 is twisted pair https://www.cablesbritain.com/cw1308/
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 21, 2021, 05:55:30 PM
Quote from: tubaman on February 21, 2021, 12:32:02 PM
CW1308 is indeed a Cat3 cable but is also always twisted pair. That seller is talking rubbish.
 :)

If untwisted Cat3 was acceptable, why create a separate CW1308 specification? Answer: because it isn't acceptable!
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: RealAleMadrid on February 21, 2021, 06:35:44 PM
There is no such thing as untwisted CAT3 cable. CAT3 and CW1308 are twisted pair cables.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on February 21, 2021, 09:48:12 PM
The very definition of a "pair" I'd think implies twisted, otherwise its just individual cables.

For example, in electrical wiring you don't call mains conductors in the same sheathing pairs, you call it things like twin and earth - as in two single conductors with an unsheathed earth conductor.
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: tubaman on February 22, 2021, 08:56:45 AM
Quote from: tubaman on February 21, 2021, 12:32:02 PM
CW1308 is indeed a Cat3 cable but is also always twisted pair. That seller is talking rubbish.
 :)
Quote from: jelv on February 21, 2021, 05:55:30 PM
If untwisted Cat3 was acceptable, why create a separate CW1308 specification? Answer: because it isn't acceptable!

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part - I should have said "CW1308 is indeed a Cat3 cable and is always twisted pair".
 :)
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 22, 2021, 11:10:46 AM
He's now received a full refund.

Frightening thing on the eBay listing:

Quote
479 sold
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: tubaman on February 22, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: jelv on February 22, 2021, 11:10:46 AM
He's now received a full refund.
...

Good news. If he's been able to keep the cable then it's fine for voice extensions but should be avoided for data use.
 :)
Title: Re: Sockets to extend telephone and VDSL to upstairs
Post by: jelv on February 22, 2021, 01:14:33 PM
He already had a flat cable used as an extension with a filter, router and phone at the other end. Not surprisingly he's experiencing issues!