Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: gjm on January 17, 2021, 04:05:37 PM
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hello.
for years we have been trying to get openreach to improve infrastructure in our area.
Everyone in our village was connected to cabinet 1, which was no less than 1.2km away, and our lines are old aluminium lines from that cabinet.
so obviously properties were getting between 15-20mbit and quite unstable.
Last year openreach put a cabinet right in the village, and named it cabinet 5, which of course improved broadband for everyone...
Except it didnt, because openreach put the cabinet where they did, and not the obvious place , 12 properties are still connected to cabinet 1, even though cabinet 5 is less than 100m from these 12 properties.
openreach keep telling us that theres a ofcom regulation that would be broken if they connected the last 12 properties to cabinet 5.
my house is less than 50m from cabinet 5 , but sadly connected to cabinet 1 so very slow and very unstable service.
apparently if they connected the 12 properties , they would add a extra 200m of line from exchange that would degrade normal adsl speeds, none of these 12 properties have adsl, everyone on vdsl.
Does anyone have any advice on how to explain this to openreach, as we keep getting hit with the same answer. everytime.
Its really annoying that we pay the same amount for our broadband that people over the road pay, but only get 1/4 of the speed they get and our service constantly drops out many times a day.
i do have a diagram that explains it more that openreach sent me and i will add to this that explains this easier.
Thanks in advance
Gavin
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/24/ad/nytjkDtG_o.png)
and they say were achieving superfast speed, but were not
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Any chance of the postcode of the new cabinet?
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most likely sn8 3sb
its a bit silly they put it where they did and not the obvious place indicated by the blue triangle on this map
(https://images2.imgbox.com/0a/1e/PxQLPaBY_o.png)
and they say we can get superfast.....
(https://images2.imgbox.com/e7/42/lkuyyuci_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/lkuyyuci)
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Have you seen the Codelook website: https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=507836&cabinets=11264
It showed P5 was part of the Phase SEP Wiltshire 17b install phase - which I'm pretty sure means it was publically funded (as the other fibre cabinets on your exchange have been)
This means that the location of the cabinet would have been agreed with BDUK - so you would be better off asking your local authority why it was placed where it was and if they will fund any changes/improvements
Rearranging the Openreach network is not cheap and it's also possible that installing the 200m of line it may affect other customers even if it doesn't affect the 12 of you.
Openreach also have to follow the various rules/standards set out at http://www.niccstandards.org.uk
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the council say its out of their scope of work, they tell me to keep contacting openreach, which as you can understand is near impossible for the consumer. They said they put it where it is because the 12 properties were already getting superfast (just).
but we werent, because 12-15mbit isnt classed as superfast is it?.
There are no other options around here, non existent 4g signal indoors and very patchy outdoors.
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=507840&postcodedet=SN83SX is my postcode.
says 42% of area less than 30mbit , surely that shows area needs something?.
So were stuck with slow , frequently dropping unstable internet. its a simple fix, just they cant do it :( @** banging head on wall
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This is strange, surely a Market 1 exchange shouldn't have to care about ADSL as all ISPs are using Openreach so can just as easily operate over FTTC?
Have you tried contacting Ofcom?
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i have not contacted ofcom yet, you think it will help?. if anything finally sorting this would probably save the isp's money, as there always seems to be a engineer up the telegraph pole that services us and neighbours, there's constant issues that they try to fix but always fail.
also our road is a cul de sac, surely that extra line length terminates after the last property, how would it affect others?.
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Is it just me or is cabinet P5 on the wrong postcode?
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=508091&cabinets=11264
SN8 3RY is 0.7 miles away from the OP's post code according to google maps, compared to SN8 3SD which is 0.5 miles.
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it must be wrong postcode our postcode is sn83sx and can clearly see cabinet 5 from our house its less than 50m line of sight away.
sn8 3ry on google maps is about a mile away and nowhere near p5
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Is it just me or is cabinet P5 on the wrong postcode?
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=508091&cabinets=11264
SN8 3RY is 0.7 miles away from the OP's post code according to google maps, compared to SN8 3SD which is 0.5 miles.
Codelook guesses the cabinet location much of the time. The postcode is often wrong on infill cabinets.
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also our road is a cul de sac, surely that extra line length terminates after the last property, how would it affect others?.
All your lines would have to go in the opposite direction to reach this new cabinet, then back again.
They would all have exactly the same length added.
Deciding where a new infill cabinet goes isn't a small task.
They need to pick a spot where they can break open the existing bundles of copper.
They need a spot where they have access to power.
OpenReach don't like to pay for this, it's too expensive.
Most infill cabinets are paid for with BDUK/subsidised funding.
There's a limited budget and siting the cabinet in the obvious spot may have made the job more expensive and unviable.
Your best option is to try the OpenReach CEO (Clive Selley).
There's a team that answers his emails and escalates to High Level Complaints team.
I wouldn't mention the OFCOM bit though.
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All your lines would have to go in the opposite direction to reach this new cabinet, then back again.
They would all have exactly the same length added.
Deciding where a new infill cabinet goes isn't a small task.
They need to pick a spot where they can break open the existing bundles of copper.
They need a spot where they have access to power.
OpenReach don't like to pay for this, it's too expensive.
Most infill cabinets are paid for with BDUK/subsidised funding.
There's a limited budget and siting the cabinet in the obvious spot may have made the job more expensive and unviable.
Your best option is to try the OpenReach CEO (Clive Selley).
There's a team that answers his emails and escalates to High Level Complaints team.
I wouldn't mention the OFCOM bit though.
The obvious place to put it on my map is where the aluminium lines come in to all properties in this part of the village, theres a underground pit very nearby where they used to pair them up.
There is also power in that obvious place as theres a street lamp right next to it, where they eventually put it, no power and less access to lines, so it doesnt make sense at all.
Wondering if openreach could put a fibre line to the telegraph pole or something as a alternative. can they split fibre ? as would think there would only be need 40m of fibre needed to do that.
Do you have clives email? i was told to contact a paul coles before and i did years ago and he promised to help but probaby think he thought cabinet 5 sorted it.
As said bduk which i assume is the local council (wiltshire council ) in my area said we already have access to superfast. but no way do we have access to superfast, just so fed up being the given the run around by wiltshire council and openreach, each of them blaming the other. i suspect we will be missed off the next lot of upgrades in future too as they will say we already get 10mbit ultrafast ....
(https://images2.imgbox.com/03/a2/Wa89DTU1_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/Wa89DTU1)
[Moderator edited to fix a broken [url] tag.]
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Do you have clives email?
Clive Selley - firstname.surname@openreach.co.uk
The location of P5 will have power, even if you can't identify it and the properties to be uplifted are decided by BDUK when it comes to public funding..
Still email the CEO and let us know what happens
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it must be wrong postcode our postcode is sn83sx and can clearly see cabinet 5 from our house its less than 50m line of sight away.
sn8 3ry on google maps is about a mile away and nowhere near p5
That's an intriguing postcode, all the odd numbers get literally speed estimates on FTTC that are half the even numbers, so 13 for example can have 11 - 20 down, but 14 can have 22 - 40 down on FTTC.
The SPS (School?) site can have 80/20 though, which suggests it is on the newer cabinet.
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Clive Selley - firstname.surname@openreach.co.uk
The location of P5 will have power, even if you can't identify it and the properties to be uplifted are decided by BDUK when it comes to public funding..
Still email the CEO and let us know what happens
its funny you say that its decided by bduk, because the properties that are served by cabinet p5 are more expensive houses (£700,000+), the 12 properties missed off are worth a lot less......... the council deny of course that this was done on purpose, but im not so sure..
I will email clive and say about the issues etc and see what he says (if anything)
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Clive.selley @ openreach.com
They can't bring fibre from a fibre cabinet to your home**
Fibre for FTTP comes from an underground node. It's where the fibre for the fibre cabinet also comes from.
There's other passive equipment needed between that fibre source and your home.
**OpenReach have a new deployment method where they can install a Subtended Head End (S.H.E/mini OLT) next to a cabinet and build FTTP from there.
It's expensive and complex so is only used in rural areas where properties are too far to receive FTTP by the normal deployment method.
Using a Subtended Head End increases the range that FTTP can be deployed from an exchange.
It would almost certainly be cheaper to build from the existing node than to build a S.H.E from the cabinet.
It also isn't free to have OpenReach build FTTP to you where none exists.
It's called FTTPoD (on demand) and every single quote I've seen in the last year or 2 had been a minimum £7-8k.
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There is also power in that obvious place as theres a street lamp right next to it, where they eventually put it, no power and less access to lines, so it doesnt make sense at all.
There's a street light very close to our cabinet which is on the opposite side of the road to the entrance to our cul-de-sac. They didn't use that but instead dug across the main road and up the pavement to outside our house to pick up the mains cable feeding the houses.
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so theres not many options then, either wait and hope we dont get missed again or pay thousands. not ideal. the obvious fix would be somehow getting openreach to connect the 12 properties to cabinet 5 but that seems extremely hard to persuade them to. We cant stream anything because of buffering, kids cant play online games because of lag , the broadband is useless for day to day browsing too as it drops out when you need it.
all because bduk/wiltshire council thought we were already superfast when they installed the cabinet, when clearly they didnt properly check as were nowhere near superfast speed. or they just didn't care?
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Have you contacted Ian Blair-Pilling (https://cms.wiltshire.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=7203)?
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Email Clive Selley stating that when the new cabinet was installed that the 12 houses weren't connected to it and therefore you are still getting slow speeds, you might get lucky. Keep the email simple, polite and to the point.
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Email Clive Selley stating that when the new cabinet was installed that the 12 houses weren't connected to it and therefore you are still getting slow speeds, you might get lucky. Keep the email simple, polite and to the point.
Have done just that, fingers crossed.
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Ohh got this today;
Subject: SI C30035529 I have been told to contact you by Wiltshire council
Good Afternoon Mr Mj*****,
Thank you for your email to Clive.
I’m Sarah from Openreach Executive Complaints team and I’ll be dealing with this on his behalf.
I'm really sorry to hear you’re having problems with slow internet speeds, please be assured I’ll now be looking into this for you. I’d really like to have a chat with you about this tomorrow, when’s best for you? May I take the best contact number for you?
I am usually in the office from 9am until 5pm Monday to Friday, if you see a 0800 number calling it might be me.
In the meantime, if you need anything my direct contact details are below.
Best wishes
Sarah,
Sarah <Removed Surname>
Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complaints Team
Openreach
[Moderator edited to remove the surname.]
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That's good, but would be a good idea to edit out her surname, anyone could very easily work out her email address.
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got the phone call today, she understood our position and said it wasn't fair that a few in the village have such slow and unstable speeds compared to the rest.
She said she would work on my side to get better service and was going to talk to planning team. (maybe fttp in the pipeline as the fibre comes into the road right near our property apparently ;) )
She will call me back next thursday to update me on the situation. Lovely conversation and such a kind lady.
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Don't get you're hopes up too much, but it does sound promising :fingers:
PS. If there is a fibre node that close and nothing comes of this, it may be worth getting an FTTP on demand quote, but they are usually pretty expensive.
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ok no update from openreach lady until thursday but heard back from my local councillor with weird results.
He replied with this ;
Dear Gavin
Thank you for your email.
I have asked the Wiltshire Online team to look into your query as I believe you have been in contact with them over the past few months. I can advise the following:
• Your premises was not moved to the closer cabinet when the local copper network rearrangement took place as you received >24Mbps which at the time precluded you from a EU State Aid funded intervention, being classed as already served with a superfast broadband connection.
• Your premises is now not able to be moved to the new cabinet as this would add an additional 200 metres to the copper line length. Openreach have to ensure they adhere to the ‘Universal Service Agreement’ (USA). The USA looks at the existing service across an ADSL (copper) connection, and Openreach cannot move customers from one cabinet to another, if it will have an adverse effect on their ADSL speeds (i.e. by adding further copper cable). The reason for this is that Openreach and ourselves cannot be in a position whereby a resident has to spend more by upgrading to a fibre service because we have downgraded the service from the speeds they were able to achieve across copper; we do of course understand that whilst fibre is very important to some residents, not all will want to take advantage of the improved service.
I note that your complaint is that you are unable to access superfast speeds. Accordingly, our team asked Openreach to undertake a live test of the service available to your premises; this is a remote check on the connection from the cabinet to your modem/router in your premises. This shows that the service available to your premises is circa 39Mpbs:
Of course there are many factors that affect the available speeds once the connection enters your premises. These can include the location and age of the router within the home, the type of connection being used (i.e. ethernet or wireless), the type and age of device that is being connected and possible contention in the service provider’s network during peak times. There are ways to ensure that you have the best connection possible, and Ofcom has put together a handy guide on how to improve broadband speeds which can be found here.
I appreciate that this perhaps is not the response you were hoping for, and I am sorry that myself and the Wiltshire Online team are unable to help you further.
On a more positive note, during the December 2019 General Election the now Conservative government made a manifesto commitment to cover the whole of the UK with “gigabit-capable” broadband services by 2025 and to spend £5bn on helping to reach those in the hardest to reach (final 20%) of areas. Details on this intervention are still emerging and are very much at the planning stage with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Building Digital UK). I currently have no further information about the manifesto commitment to share with you, but please rest assured that the Wiltshire Online team are closely monitoring the development of this commitment and will pursue any and all opportunities, to ensure that Wiltshire residents are able to benefit from this new programme of intervention.
Best regards
Ian
where they are getting this 39mbit/sec figure from?
i installed openwrt on my plusnet router, seems little bit more stable, here are my line stats;
Line State:UP [0x0]
Line Mode:G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Line Uptime:0d 6h 36m 34s
Annex:B
Profile:17a
Data Rate:9.949 Mb/s / 0.943 Mb/s
Max. Attainable Data Rate (ATTNDR):6.438 Mb/s / 0.444 Mb/s
Latency:2.44 ms / 0.0 ms
Line Attenuation (LATN):33.8 dB / 45.4 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATN):21.4 dB / 26.7 dB
Noise Margin (SNR):5.5 dB / 5.9 dB
Aggregate Transmit Power (ACTATP):0.9 dB / 11.6 dB
Forward Error Correction Seconds (FECS):0 / 0
Errored seconds (ES):11349 / 2636
Severely Errored Seconds (SES):1216 / 23
Loss of Signal Seconds (LOSS):1001 / 0
Unavailable Seconds (UAS):5 / 5
Header Error Code Errors (HEC):0 / 0
Non Pre-emptive CRC errors (CRC_P):13457 / 0
Pre-emptive CRC errors (CRCP_P):0 / 0
ATU-C System Vendor ID:Broadcom 164.161
Power Management Mode:L0 - Synchronized
weird my max rate is less than my current rate too.
but where openreach getting this 39mbit figure from?
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The stupidity of the above, it would seem a simple solution to that would be to offer a slower VDSL service at ADSL pricing. The whole idea that you hold back decent speeds from those who need it, for the sake of those who don't (who in this case seem to be mythical people) is utterly backwards.
Don't get you're hopes up too much, but it does sound promising :fingers:
PS. If there is a fibre node that close and nothing comes of this, it may be worth getting an FTTP on demand quote, but they are usually pretty expensive.
You're telling me, the quote I got I can't remember exactly how much but considering I know the EXACT route to the distribution node around 200m away it seemed really really high.
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That councillor clearly has his finger on the pulse as the 2025 Gigabit promise was dropped by the Government back in November (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50042720).
As for the availability of 39Mbps at your house, well that just beggars belief, and I'd be writing back asking to see those test results.
:no:
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That councillor clearly has his finger on the pulse as the 2025 Gigabit promise was dropped by the Government back in November (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50042720).
As for the availability of 39Mbps at your house, well that just beggars belief, and I'd be writing back asking to see those test results.
:no:
i wrote back saying i dont know where openreach got those numbers but they're made up.
I also tried explaining that the main issues is stability , yes speed is nice , but a stable connection would be brilliant.
Seems they are just interested in supposed speed and not the fact you cant stream or kids play their games as the connection drops many times when in use.
Not heard anything back yet though. My router is plugged into master socket, weve had the lines replaced from the telegraph pole, my line stats are all over the place as you can see from posted stats, ive tried different routers, theyve changed faceplates etc, nothing fixes it. infrastructure must be really bad, yet the people who are connected to cabinet 5 have stable internet.
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Can you post a screenshot of the BT Wholesale checker, remember to blank out your address or phone number.
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@Ronski The OP did post the checker result in post #3 but oddly it didn't show any observed speed figures.
As for the Wiltshire online team, they appear to be on another planet, so many points they have stated are just unbelievably wrong. :(
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where they are getting this 39mbit/sec figure from?
i installed openwrt on my plusnet router, seems little bit more stable, here are my line stats;
Line State:UP [0x0]
Line Mode:G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Line Uptime:0d 6h 36m 34s
Annex:B
Profile:17a
Data Rate:9.949 Mb/s / 0.943 Mb/s
Max. Attainable Data Rate (ATTNDR):6.438 Mb/s / 0.444 Mb/s
Latency:2.44 ms / 0.0 ms
Line Attenuation (LATN):33.8 dB / 45.4 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATN):21.4 dB / 26.7 dB
Noise Margin (SNR):5.5 dB / 5.9 dB
Aggregate Transmit Power (ACTATP):0.9 dB / 11.6 dB
Forward Error Correction Seconds (FECS):0 / 0
Errored seconds (ES):11349 / 2636
Severely Errored Seconds (SES):1216 / 23
Loss of Signal Seconds (LOSS):1001 / 0
Unavailable Seconds (UAS):5 / 5
Header Error Code Errors (HEC):0 / 0
Non Pre-emptive CRC errors (CRC_P):13457 / 0
Pre-emptive CRC errors (CRCP_P):0 / 0
ATU-C System Vendor ID:Broadcom 164.161
Power Management Mode:L0 - Synchronized
weird my max rate is less than my current rate too.
but where openreach getting this 39mbit figure from?
All the even numbers in the street can have up to 40 FTTC according to the Openreach Checker, yes I checked :-X
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That saves me checking tonight. Something a bit odd there.
Perhaps the OP can check the wholesale checker and see if it mentions the observed speeds - would be useful to send the screen shot to the councillor, although I doubt they'll understand it.
Hopefully the CEOs office will come back with something more positive.
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the wholsale checker doesnt tell me observed speeds sadly.
our connection has been a LOT more unstable past 12 hours or so, link comes up, goes down 30 secs later, getting a lot of errors in openwrt.
DSL Status
Line State:DOWN [0x0]
Line Mode:-
Line Uptime:55s
Annex:-
Profile:-
Data Rate:0 b/s / 0 b/s
Max. Attainable Data Rate (ATTNDR):0 b/s / 0 b/s
Latency:0.0 ms / 0.0 ms
Line Attenuation (LATN):0.0 dB / 0.0 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATN):0.0 dB / 0.0 dB
Noise Margin (SNR):0.0 dB / 0.0 dB
Aggregate Transmit Power (ACTATP):0.0 dB / 0.0 dB
Forward Error Correction Seconds (FECS):0 / 0
Errored seconds (ES):128486 / 2793
Severely Errored Seconds (SES):11984 / 23
Loss of Signal Seconds (LOSS):0 / 0
Unavailable Seconds (UAS):6984 / 981
Header Error Code Errors (HEC):0 / 0
Non Pre-emptive CRC errors (CRC_P):112986 / 0
Pre-emptive CRC errors (CRCP_P):0 / 0
ATU-C System Vendor ID:
Power Management Mode:L3 - No power
This happening when i noticed 12mbit down 2 up, which fastest ive seen in a long while, everytime it comes back up, speed lowers, got down to 2mbit down and 0.02 up atm, and it still disconnecting.
Starting to think openreach should just stop the 12 properties from getting vdsl if they cant finally sort these issues out.
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@gjm are you using the included DSL firmware with OpenWRT?
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yes, it has been more stable than original firmware, although still drops because of line issues, but weirdly today it tried to sync at higher speed (a whole 12mbit) and then all the errors started happening. its now unstable still at 2mbit ...
Not sure why, rain perhaps? lol.
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yes, it has been more stable than original firmware, although still drops because of line issues, but weirdly today it tried to sync at higher speed (a whole 12mbit) and then all the errors started happening. its now unstable still at 2mbit ...
Not sure why, rain perhaps? lol.
Here's all 26 DSL firmwares for your Lantiq, https://xdarklight.github.io/lantiq-xdsl-firmware-info/
The OpenWRT included ones are old and not brilliant, the easiest one to test are the Netgear DM200 ones.
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Here's all 26 DSL firmwares for your Lantiq, https://xdarklight.github.io/lantiq-xdsl-firmware-info/
The OpenWRT included ones are old and not brilliant, the easiest one to test are the Netgear DM200 ones.
Can't seem to use that as the instructions to download freetz aren't working so I can't compile the firmware extraction tool.
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its a flashed bt homehub 5a and been quite stable until today, i tried my non openwrt homehub too and my fritzbox 7530 and same connectivity issues, so its line issues as usual.
seems someone at openreach tried changing our speed profile possibly, but the line cant handle it (the whole issue im trying to get resolved)
Seems to be stable at 5mbit down now for a while...
Line State:UP [0x0]
Line Mode:G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Line Uptime:56m 18s
Annex:B
Profile:17a
Data Rate:5.410 Mb/s / 0.422 Mb/s
Max. Attainable Data Rate (ATTNDR):4.252 Mb/s / 0.448 Mb/s
Latency:6.39 ms / 0.0 ms
Line Attenuation (LATN):23.7 dB / 46.7 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATN):17.6 dB / 26.7 dB
Noise Margin (SNR):5.2 dB / 5.9 dB
Aggregate Transmit Power (ACTATP):0.7 dB / 11.6 dB
Forward Error Correction Seconds (FECS):0 / 0
Errored seconds (ES):128486 / 2793
Severely Errored Seconds (SES):11984 / 23
Loss of Signal Seconds (LOSS):0 / 0
Unavailable Seconds (UAS):8544 / 981
Header Error Code Errors (HEC):0 / 0
Non Pre-emptive CRC errors (CRC_P):162989 / 0
Pre-emptive CRC errors (CRCP_P):0 / 0
ATU-C System Vendor ID:
Power Management Mode:L3 - No power
nice speeds huh, not quite the 39mbit ........
The annoying thing is wiltshire online think i dont know anything, im a ex network engineer and i know about routing etc, and my router etc is plugged into master socket, no extensions, connected to router via 1000mbit ethernet, they still say its internal wiring probably wifi etc. OPENREACH.. its a line issue, your infrastructure in my village sucks, 1mile long + pre copper aluminium lines ....... underground pits that flood when it rains. Just connect the last properties to the cabinet not even 70m away....
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Can't seem to use that as the instructions to download freetz aren't working so I can't compile the firmware extraction tool.
I managed to follow this to resolve that issue: https://github.com/xdarklight/lantiq-xdsl-firmware-info/issues/25
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i use the standard openwrt image for bt homehub 5 / plusnet hub one at https://openwrt.org/toh/bt/homehub_v5a, would a custom one with different lantiq support be better then?
Line stats this morning have been stableish, no drops for a few hours, but only 5mbit down 0.49 up
As said our issue is ongoing (for years) line issues as all routers ive tried same results, just intrigued to know if a custom lantiq openwrt firmware would be better.
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i use the standard openwrt image for bt homehub 5 / plusnet hub one at https://openwrt.org/toh/bt/homehub_v5a, would a custom one with different lantiq support be better then?
Line stats this morning have been stableish, no drops for a few hours, but only 5mbit down 0.49 up
As said our issue is ongoing (for years) line issues as all routers ive tried same results, just intrigued to know if a custom lantiq openwrt firmware would be better.
There's details on the netgear dm200 page on how to extract an up to date compatible firmware from a dm200 firmware image: https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/dm200
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@gjm Your line is so poor I don't believe any firmware change is going to help you. All you can do is complain to your ISP and raise faults. :(
Have you heard any more from the council or the goons at Wilshire Online?
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@gjm Your line is so poor I don't believe any firmware change is going to help you. All you can do is complain to your ISP and raise faults. :(
Have you heard any more from the council or the goons at Wilshire Online?
weve complained to isp for years, they try to fix and never works, weve changed isps and tried again, and they say its the very very old infrastructure in area (1960's). ISP has also been fighting to get us connected to closer cabinet too with no luck. council gone quiet again, they know what they didnt do 2 years ago when that cabinet went in and they dont want 'intervene' with openreach anymore. Im hopefully getting a call from openreach tomorrow, and hope that goes well and not the same old you got 39mbit so your ok .... would love a stable 12mbit!
Upon putting properties into openreach community fibre portal, it tells you what cabinet they connected to, noticed one of the properties not connected to cabinet 5 is connected to cabinet 6 and gets 80/20.
upon investigating in the village yesterday i found it. here is a google earth image of where cabinets are and where issue area is where properties are connected to cabinet 1.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/98/64/gh61mp6A_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/gh61mp6A)
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I managed to follow this to resolve that issue: https://github.com/xdarklight/lantiq-xdsl-firmware-info/issues/25
I had no issues with the 7z stage, its checking out the Freetz source that fails as the path seems to be wrong.
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also just thinking,(i may be wrong) if theres just one green cabinet at cabinet 5 location, where fibre connected, where do telephones get connected, i thought they had to be 2 boxes?
all lines used to be connected via underground pit close to our house before cabinet 5 went in, ours is still connected in the pit, is there no second box because of the pit? and if lines are connected via the pit, openreachs answer of 'adding 200m to adsl length' is false?
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The cabinet is almost certainly an ALL IN ONE (AIO) cab which is a combined PCP (Phone) and Fibre cabinet. These are generally used for BDUK infill applications. Google street view is not recent enough to show it but I did find Cab1 out on the main road, the PCP looks like it has fallen down a ditch into the hedge. ;D
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The cabinet is almost certainly an ALL IN ONE (AIO) cab which is a combined PCP (Phone) and Fibre cabinet. These are generally used for BDUK infill applications. Google street view is not recent enough to show it but I did find Cab1 out on the main road, the PCP looks like it has fallen down a ditch into the hedge. ;D
ill get a picture of cabinet 5 later, i do find it strange that one property connected to cabinet 6 which is another part og village, yet gets 80/20, i suppose its closer than cabinet 1 but how come only one property connected?.
yep the cab 1 pcp is in a ditch lol
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here ya go
(https://images2.imgbox.com/93/ea/tZALzr57_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/tZALzr57)
and yep that openreach in road fixing someone elses issues
also video here of me walking route lines take to cab 5
https://sendvid.com/akqbv2do
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here ya go
and yep that openreach in road fixing someone elses issues
also video here of me walking route lines take to cab 5
https://sendvid.com/akqbv2do
That's better. ;)
[Moderator edited to remove the above image from the quote.]
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That's all All in one cabinet.
Basically both the copper cabinet and the fibre cabinet in a single shell.
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well had a call from upper management of openreach today, they are still looking into it, agree that we shouldn't of been left in this situation by openreach, bduk and wiltshire online as they agree that we were only getting a max of 12mbit from their tests.
they are hoping to have a idea next week, in the meantime theyre looking into costs of fibre to premises and fibre to pole so all options will be on table.
Still fingers crossed here..
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Well at least they agreed with you're speeds, hopefully they'll sort something out for you and your neighbour's :fingers:
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Would be quite an outcome if after all this you end up on FTTP when everyone who was moved over before are stuck on FTTC.
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I had no issues with the 7z stage, its checking out the Freetz source that fails as the path seems to be wrong.
If you want the files, I have found some kind soul has posted them on the openwrt forum: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/howto-updating-the-lantiq-xrx200-devices-with-latest-dsl-vectoring-firmware/18853/35
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If you want the files, I have found some kind soul has posted them on the openwrt forum: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/howto-updating-the-lantiq-xrx200-devices-with-latest-dsl-vectoring-firmware/18853/35
Thanks, although the comment that OpenWRT are not using the newest files seems inaccurate.
I checked the list again and they seem to be the latest WITHOUT vectoring support, which I don't need. So perhaps best I keep it as-is?
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Thanks, although the comment that OpenWRT are not using the newest files seems inaccurate.
I checked the list again and they seem to be the latest WITHOUT vectoring support, which I don't need. So perhaps best I keep it as-is?
Lantiq dsl firmware versions make no sense, for example Netgear currently use 5.7.B.5.0.7-5.7.5.4.0.1 for the DM200, but previously used 5.8.1.5.0.7-5.8.0.9.0.1 which was a newer firmware, both versions have vectoring support.
The latest OpenWRT use is 5.8.1.8.1.6-5.8.0.B.1.1, but has no vectoring support and is a pre-release, while both versions Netgear use are release versions.
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Lantiq dsl firmware versions make no sense, for example Netgear currently use 5.7.B.5.0.7-5.7.5.4.0.1 for the DM200, but previously used 5.8.1.5.0.7-5.8.0.9.0.1 which was a newer firmware, both versions have vectoring support.
The latest OpenWRT use is 5.8.1.8.1.6-5.8.0.B.1.1, but has no vectoring support and is a pre-release, while both versions Netgear use are release versions.
Do you know where the instructions are for how to change the firmware? I assume its not as simple as changing the lantiq-vrx200-a.bin symlink as there is also the matching lantiq-vrx200-a-to-b.bspatch which has no relation to files in the firmware archive.
What I'm trying to find is a firmware stable on G.INP so I can go back to a HH5A for both lines.
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Do you know where the instructions are for how to change the firmware? I assume its not as simple as changing the lantiq-vrx200-a.bin symlink as there is also the matching lantiq-vrx200-a-to-b.bspatch which has no relation to files in the firmware archive.
What I'm trying to find is a firmware stable on G.INP so I can go back to a HH5A for both lines.
On the following page: https://kb.netgear.com/2649/NETGEAR-Open-Source-Code-for-Programmers-GPL you can find https://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GPL/DM200-V1.0.0.66_gpl_src.tar.bz2
If you bunzip this you will find in DM200-V1.0.0.66_gpl_src\dl:
dsl_vr9_firmware_xdsl-05.07.09.05.01.07_05.07.03.0F.00.01.tar.gz
dsl_vr9_firmware_xdsl-05.07.06.0A.00.07_05.07.01.0C.00.02.tar.gz
dsl_vr9_firmware_xdsl-05.07.0B.05.00.07_05.07.05.04.00.01.tar.gz
The first one is what Netgear use for the stock firmware on the DM200 and it includes vectoring.
Inside the tar.gz is xcpe_579517_573F01.bin which is the needed firmware.
You will now need to scp xcpe_579517_573F01.bin to /lib/firmware on your HH5A
With your web browser go to luci(by default 192.168.1.1) and configure in Network-> Interfaces the line "Firmware File". You have to enter there for example "/lib/firmware/xcpe_579517_573F01.bin". Then press on save&apply. Your dsl connection should restart and resync.
Regarding the most stable firmware, there is a 91 post thread over on OpenWRT of people comparing lantiq dsl firmware versions: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/lantiq-vrx200-xdsl-firmware-recommendation-thread/52937
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I'm using a Netgear DM200 with OpenWRT and it's certainly a bit of a muddle with the firmware.
OpenWRT appears to ship 5.8.1.8.1.6 but it also has a patch file which results in the actual firmware being set as 5.7.9.9.0.6
As previously stated, the Lantiq firmware files do not seem to following the normal incrementing sequence to denote later versions.
The 5.8.1.5.0.7 firmware file has a date of 23/3/2016 whereas
5.7.B.5.0.7 firmware file has a date of 13/9/2017
For reference, I'm using 5.7.B.5.0.7 extracted from the Netgear DM200 GPL source file and it's very stable with an Huawei cabinet with G.INP enabled.
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Touch wood this is looking quite stable considering its a much higher downsync than the Zyxel especially with tweaked SNRm. Not counting my chickens as the old firmware was stable too at first then lost sync multiple times in a single day for no obvious reason.
Chipset: Lantiq™ XWAY™ VRX268
Firmware Version: 5.9.0.12.1.7
API Version: 4.17.18.6
MEI Version: 1.5.17.6
Power Management Mode: L0 - Synchronized
Line State: UP [0x801: showtime_tc_sync]
Line Uptime: 13h 2m 27s
Resyncs: 2
DSLAM/MSAN VID:
XTSE Capabilities: 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2
Annex: B
Line Mode: G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Profile: 17a
Trellis: D: ON / U: ON
Bitswap: D: ON / U: ON
G.INP: D: Enabled / U: Not Enabled
Virtual Noise Support: D: Not Supported / U: Not Supported
Attain Data Rate: 66.781 Mb/s / 18.085 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate: 66.702 Mb/s / 18.584 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot: 44.3 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay: 0.21 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC: 32 / 255
RFEC: 16 / 16
LSYMB: 16 / 4983
Interleave Depth: 1 / 1
Interleave Block: 32 / 255
LPATH: 0 / 0
Line Attenuation: 11.8dB / 14.5dB
Signal Attenuation: 11.9dB / 14.3dB
Noise Margin: 3.9dB / 5.8dB
Transmit power: 13.8dBm / 5.2dBm
FECS: 0 / 132484
ES: 0 / 13731
SES: 0 / 1
LOSS: 0 / 0
UAS: 171 / 171
HEC: 0 / 0
CRC_P: 0 / 0
CRCP_P: 0 / 0
15m Code Violations: 0 / 1
15m FEC Errors: 0 / 1
1d Code Violations: 0 / 15930
1d FEC Errors: 0 / 132484
The really weird one is my Zen lines HH5A (attainable figure is due to tweaked SNRm but the line is banded so it does nothing):
Chipset: Lantiq™ XWAY™ VRX268
Firmware Version: 5.7.9.9.0.6
API Version: 4.17.18.6
MEI Version: 1.5.17.6
Power Management Mode: L0 - Synchronized
Line State: UP [0x801: showtime_tc_sync]
Line Uptime: 8d 3h 59m 5s
Resyncs: 3
DSLAM/MSAN VID:
XTSE Capabilities: 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2
Annex: B
Line Mode: G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Profile: 17a
Trellis: D: ON / U: ON
Bitswap: D: ON / U: ON
G.INP: D: Not Enabled / U: Not Enabled
Virtual Noise Support: D: Not Supported / U: Not Supported
Attain Data Rate: 78.232 Mb/s / 23.704 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate: 67.000 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot: 0.0 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay: 0.0 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC: 255 / 255
RFEC: 16 / 16
LSYMB: 17979 / 5410
Interleave Depth: 1 / 1
Interleave Block: 255 / 255
LPATH: 0 / 0
Line Attenuation: 12.4dB / 15.4dB
Signal Attenuation: 12.4dB / 15.2dB
Noise Margin: 5.7dB / 8.4dB
Transmit power: 13.9dBm / 6.4dBm
FECS: 9981 / 4514
ES: 40 / 18320
SES: 0 / 1
LOSS: 2 / 0
UAS: 116 / 116
HEC: 0 / 0
CRC_P: 0 / 0
CRCP_P: 0 / 0
15m Code Violations: 0 / 0
15m FEC Errors: 0 / 2
1d Code Violations: 96 / 78
1d FEC Errors: 9304 / 343
That firmware version makes no sense, its using stock OpenWRT which is xcpe_581816_580B11.bin which was reported correctly on the Plusnet Hub before I replaced the firmware and was on Zen too AFAIK until the latest OpenWRT update.
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Certainly on my DM200, with no firmware file override in place, the details showed the same as yours - 5.7.9.9.0.6.
The files in lib/firmware are as follows :
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 43 Jan 19 13:10 lantiq-vrx200-a-to-b.bspatch -> xcpe_581816_580B11_to_579906_574402.bspatch
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 Jan 19 13:10 lantiq-vrx200-a.bin -> xcpe_581816_580B11.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1920 Jan 19 13:10 xcpe_581816_580B11.LICENSE
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 898952 Jan 19 13:10 xcpe_581816_580B11.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 253635 Jan 19 13:10 xcpe_581816_580B11_to_579906_574402.bspatch
root@OpenWrt:/lib/firmware#
Perhaps OpenWRT only applies the 5.7.9.9.0.6 patch to certain devices ?
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I think I might know what happened. It was accidentally set to Annex A for a while which obviously doesn't use the patch so reported the unpatched version number. Weird thing is it worked, until one of the recent OpenWRT updates where it refused to sync and I correctly switched it to Annex B.
What bothers me is not knowing what this A to B patch exactly does. My Plusnet modem is clearly using unpatched vr9-A and its working for Annex B fine so far. Is the patch perhaps only for ADSL support?
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What bothers me is not knowing what this A to B patch exactly does. My Plusnet modem is clearly using unpatched vr9-A and its working for Annex B fine so far. Is the patch perhaps only for ADSL support?
Think of bspatch as a "binary diff" between the annex A firmware blob an the annex B firmware blob for the DSL modem inside the router.
By using bspatch, only either the annex A or the annex B firmware blob needs to be included in full, and the "full" firmware blob for the other annex can simply be obtained at runtime/during boot by applying the bspatch to the "full" firmware blob for the "first" annex. It's just a simple and efficient way to save a lot of space in the router's firmware image whilst still allowing the device vendor to support both DSL annexes with one common firmware.From here: https://github.com/xdarklight/lantiq-xdsl-firmware-info/issues/14
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Think of bspatch as a "binary diff" between the annex A firmware blob an the annex B firmware blob for the DSL modem inside the router.
By using bspatch, only either the annex A or the annex B firmware blob needs to be included in full, and the "full" firmware blob for the other annex can simply be obtained at runtime/during boot by applying the bspatch to the "full" firmware blob for the "first" annex. It's just a simple and efficient way to save a lot of space in the router's firmware image whilst still allowing the device vendor to support both DSL annexes with one common firmware.From here: https://github.com/xdarklight/lantiq-xdsl-firmware-info/issues/14
Yeah that's what I thought, so basically the Annex thing does only affect ADSL it seems although the B firmware would have taken up less storage.
However that makes it even more confusing why my Zen HH5A is using the B patched firmware if A is fine for VDSL.
FTTP can't come soon enough, I'm getting too old for this. (realising probably half the regulars if not more are older than me)
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*****
Chipset: Lantiq™ XWAY™ VRX268
Firmware Version: 5.8.1.8.1.6
API Version: 4.17.18.6
MEI Version: 1.5.17.6
Power Management Mode: L0 - Synchronized
Line State: UP [0x801: showtime_tc_sync]
Line Uptime: 4m 3s
Resyncs: 2
DSLAM/MSAN VID:
XTSE Capabilities: 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2
Annex: B
Line Mode: G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Profile: 17a
Trellis: D: ON / U: ON
Bitswap: D: ON / U: ON
G.INP: D: Enabled / U: Not Enabled
Virtual Noise Support: D: Not Supported / U: Not Supported
Attain Data Rate: 26.578 Mb/s / 9.955 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate: 26.230 Mb/s / 9.656 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot: 36.1 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay: 0.53 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC: 32 / 255
RFEC: 16 / 16
LSYMB: 16 / 2591
Interleave Depth: 1 / 1
Interleave Block: 32 / 255
LPATH: 0 / 0
Line Attenuation: 15.2dB / 26.6dB
Signal Attenuation: 19.5dB / 26.4dB
Noise Margin: 4.1dB / 6.3dB
Transmit power: 13.8dBm / 5.9dBm
FECS: 0 / 132831
ES: 0 / 13768
SES: 0 / 5
LOSS: 0 / 4
UAS: 75 / 75
HEC: 0 / 0
CRC_P: 0 / 0
CRCP_P: 0 / 0
15m Code Violations: 0 / 0
15m FEC Errors: 0 / 0
1d Code Violations: 0 / 15990
1d FEC Errors: 0 / 132831
It seems the high winds has killed my second line, crackling like crazy every time wind blows it.
Flip side, I switched the firmware back before I realised the problem and it confirms my earlier confusion - look at the version number.
Another possibility, maybe the line was always sketchy from day one and why its always synced so much lower than the main line.
[Edited for language - roseway]
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Confirmed with my DM200 regarding the Annex A or B.
In OpenWRT, if the DSL definition has the Annex setting as A - 5.8.1.8.1.6 is used.
If the the DSL definition has the Annex setting as B - 5.7.9.9.0.6 is used.
This also matches the naming of the file in lib/firmware
lantiq-vrx200-a-to-b.bspatch -> xcpe_581816_580B11_to_579906_574402.bspatch
Obviously to reduce the size of the OpenWRT system, they only ship one full firmware file and
just use the patch to switch to other version based on how the DSL has been defined.
Pity the naming convention for each version/release and which one is a later version is still a muddle. However Lantiq seem to be rather good at muddling things up - the dsl_control status details switch around the near/far and downstream/upstream within the same display.
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This also explains why when I had it to set VDSL Annex A it still worked on Annex B (and why the version displayed differently), because both firmwares work for all VDSL Annexes.
It is interesting though as it means technically OpenWRT lets you toggle two different firmware versions for VDSL. Although considering the iffy naming scheme and that its merely a patch, I'd guess those are technically both the same firmware just with confusing version numbering and differences in the ADSL code.
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Looking at the files and versioning there is some method in their madness.
Each filename is the combination of the VDSL driver level and the ADSL driver level.
The last digit of the VDSL level denotes whether the code includes vectoring or not,
6 - no vectoring, 7 - vectoring.
Same trick for the ADSL level as to which Annex is supported,
1 - Annex A, 2 - Annex B
5.8.1.8.1.6_5.8.0.B.1.1 is VDSL (no vectoring) _ ADSL Annex A
5.7.9.9.0.6_5.7.4.4.0.2 is VDSL (no vectoring) _ ADSL Annex B
As you say, in OpenWRT LuCI, typically the Annex setting would be used to select the correct
ADSL driver. However, when the DSL is VDSL it actually affects which VDSL driver is used.
If you needed vectoring, you would need to use another driver and override it, for example,
5.7.11.5.0.7_5.7.5.4.0.1 is VDSL (with vectoring) _ ADSL Annex A
but that firmware file could not be used for an ADSL Annex B line as the file does not include an
Annex B driver.