Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: spaace on January 13, 2021, 10:38:26 AM

Title: SoGEA
Post by: spaace on January 13, 2021, 10:38:26 AM
Hello all,

I noticed my supplier recently started offering SoGEA products and in looking up estimated speeds they are always higher estimates than the same property on FTTC.

EG - my line, FTTC estimate is 55mb-66mb (i get 66mb) guaranteed speed is 52mb
                 SoGEA estimate is 62mb-80mb guaranteed speed is 62mb

I understand it is the same technology just without the phone line bolted on so are those increased speeds realistic?

Thanks
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: Brickmortar on January 13, 2021, 02:14:21 PM
you wont get a speed increase, nothing is different apart from being able to have line rental and internet from different providers
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: spaace on January 13, 2021, 03:06:53 PM
there is no line rental on SoGEA
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: roseway on January 13, 2021, 03:37:42 PM
With SoGEA there's a copper line into the premises but no telephone service on it. Normally the line rental will be included in the cost of the internet service, and the customer makes a single monthly payment. The connection will still be subject to crosstalk in the same way as FTTC, but I suppose that the lack of POTS signals and interference through less than perfect filters could account for a slightly increased speed expectation.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: j0hn on January 13, 2021, 05:26:50 PM
there is no line rental on SoGEA

It's bundled in to the price of SOGEA instead.

SOGEA is literally 1-2 cheaper from some providers and the exact same price with other providers, when compared to a bundled copper phone line + broadband.

The OpenReach cost to ISP's is almost the same for SOGEA as PSTN + FTTC.

As above, it speeds nothing up.
The E-Side remains connected in all cases.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: omegapoint on January 14, 2021, 10:07:40 AM
At least some providers don't use PPPoE on SoGEA lines which would provide a slight speed increase as it removes the 8 bytes of overhead.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on January 14, 2021, 04:18:45 PM
At least some providers don't use PPPoE on SoGEA lines which would provide a slight speed increase as it removes the 8 bytes of overhead.

Perhaps more relevant, it reduces the CPU overhead on your router quite dramatically.  I believe PPP is always a single-threaded task by its nature.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: underzone on January 14, 2021, 04:45:42 PM
Does anyone know which ISP's don't use PPPoE on SoGEA lines?

Pfsense with PPPOE always gets poor performance as only 1 CPU thread and 1 NIC queue is ever used.
It would be great to get away from PPPOE.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on January 14, 2021, 05:31:05 PM
That would have to be some insanely weak hardware for pfSense to have a problem, considering most routers are an order of magnitude slower still and handle it fine.   PPP doesn't even register as consuming any CPU on my box.

Code: [Select]
USER      PID  %CPU %MEM    VSZ    RSS TT  STAT STARTED         TIME COMMAND
root     4828   0.0  0.2  14456   6712  -  Ss    7Dec20      0:32.58 /usr/local/sbin/mpd5 -b -k -d /var/etc -f mpd_opt8.conf -p /var/run/pppoe_opt8.pid -s ppp pppoeclient
root     8216   0.0  0.1   6904   2480  -  Is   17:27        0:00.07 /usr/local/bin/dpinger -S -r 0 -i WAN_ZEN_DHCP6 -B fe80::1%pppoe0 -p /var/run/dpinger_WAN_ZEN_DHCP6~fe80::1%pppoe0~fe80::4afd:8eff:feaa:a4d1%pppoe0.pid -u /var/run/dpinger_WAN_ZEN_DHCP6~fe80::1%pppoe0
root    76224   0.0  0.2  14456   8900  -  Ss   17:15        0:00.03 /usr/local/sbin/mpd5 -b -k -d /var/etc -f mpd_wan.conf -p /var/run/pppoe_wan.pid -s ppp pppoeclient

I'm only marginally concerned mine might struggle on Gigabit

I don't understand what the NIC queues is about though, so I'll give you that.  But I'm only seeing people mentioning that as an issue at Gigabit speeds, so I should hopefully be able to see if that's an issue later this year.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: j0hn on January 14, 2021, 06:30:10 PM
At least some providers don't use PPPoE on SoGEA lines which would provide a slight speed increase as it removes the 8 bytes of overhead.

Curious which providers you think don't use PPP on SOGEA that do on other FTTC based services.

I'm only aware of Talktalk and Sky who don't use PPP, and that's both SOGEA and bundled services.

The fact it's SOGEA makes no difference to authentication.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: underzone on January 14, 2021, 07:37:25 PM

I don't understand what the NIC queues is about though, so I'll give you that.  But I'm only seeing people mentioning that as an issue at Gigabit speeds, so I should hopefully be able to see if that's an issue later this year.

Modern Intel NIC's are multi-queue and bind a queue to a CPU core.
From the pfsense shell, you can view them with:

Code: [Select]
sysctl -a | grep '\.igb\..*x_pack'

sysctl -a | grep '\.ix\..*x_pack'
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on January 14, 2021, 09:42:09 PM
Ah I think I get the idea, as the NIC understands TCP/IP at the driver level its able to leverage the multi-threading at a deep level, vs PPP being completely unrecognised so has to just be dumped into the single queue and only THEN can the OS extract the TCP/IP contents and multi-thread the processing from then on?

However just a quick look around the Netgate forum I see comments suggestings an Intel i5-7400 can easily do 1Gbit down and 1.5Gbit up even with PPPoE.  So I still think its not too much of a big deal, you just need to make sure you have good single-thread performance on your CPU.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: burakkucat on January 14, 2021, 10:04:46 PM
Curious which providers you think don't use PPP on SOGEA that do on other FTTC based services.

I'm only aware of Talktalk and Sky who don't use PPP, and that's both SOGEA and bundled services.

The fact it's SOGEA makes no difference to authentication.

Indeed.  :)  But did you really mean to type "authentication"?

That said, it would be nice to do away with PPPoX (not a mistake; X == E|A) and use IPoE. Or does IPoE have its own can of worms?
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on January 15, 2021, 04:00:22 PM
Is PPPoE used so they can use the same method across all connectivity methods such as ADSL?  Or is it to avoid having to route traffic based on the MAC address of the modem?

It does seem mental to not use plain IP unless there's a darn good reason.
Title: Re: SoGEA
Post by: j0hn on January 15, 2021, 04:58:57 PM
Neither Talktalk or Sky use a mac on their implementations.

Talktalk use a form of curcuit ID I believe, meaning ANY router with DHCP/IPoE will work.

Sky use DHCP Option 61/MER with a generic username and password being enough.
Any router that supports Option 61 should work.
Neither require mac spoofing.

I think Talktalk use DHCP on ADSL too.
I think Sky use PPP on ADSL.