Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: GunJack on January 11, 2021, 09:14:02 AM

Title: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 11, 2021, 09:14:02 AM
Ey up gang, long time no visit (sorry...) but in need of a bit of help. I find myself in need of a new VDSL router, dual-band wifi, nothing too fancy but with a reliable 5GHz band and not too expensive...anyone got any recommendations of currently available kit??
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: tiffy on January 11, 2021, 09:32:57 AM
How about this from one of the forum patrons, just posted yesterday:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25527.msg428387.html#msg428387

From memory this model has dual band Wi-Fi and it's DSL performance has always been well respected.
Yes, the ZyXEL VMG range is getting a bit dated now but still work very well on my line, (see my signature) have not used this particular model but I'am sure "vic0239" will be able to elaborate further.
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 11, 2021, 09:41:21 AM
How about this from one of the forum patrons, just posted yesterday:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25527.msg428387.html#msg428387

From memory this model has dual band Wi-Fi and it's DSL performance has always been well respected.
Yes, the ZyXEL VMG range is getting a bit dated now but still work very well on my line, (see my signature) have not used this particular model but I'am sure "vic0239" will be able to elaborate further.

Thanks for that, but am looking at new tbh....warranties and all that  :)
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: meritez on January 11, 2021, 10:45:15 AM
Ey up gang, long time no visit (sorry...) but in need of a bit of help. I find myself in need of a new VDSL router, dual-band wifi, nothing too fancy but with a reliable 5GHz band and not too expensive...anyone got any recommendations of currently available kit??

What's your budget, do you need any flash features or reliable Wi-Fi being the main requirement?
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: tiffy on January 11, 2021, 11:08:13 AM
Thanks for that, but am looking at new tbh....warranties and all that  :)

OK, just a thought as not sure of your budget, I'am sure you will receive lots of sound advice from the many knowledgable forum patrons.
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 11, 2021, 12:02:25 PM
nothing flash required, just need one where, when I set the wifi channel (esp. on 5GHz), it bl00dy-well stays on that channel  ::)

ideally less than £50, and one that syncs as fast or faster than my old HG623, and deffo faster than the all fur coat and no knickers TT wifi hub (POS)  >:(

oh, and with a decent user interface (again, not like the all fur coat and no knickers TT wifi hub (POS) )
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: broadstairs on January 11, 2021, 12:16:58 PM
I currently use a ZyXEL VMG3925 on my TT line and  it has been very stable - not booted now for 271 days  ;) Still finding them on eBay.

Stuart
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on January 11, 2021, 08:32:29 PM
nothing flash required, just need one where, when I set the wifi channel (esp. on 5GHz), it bl00dy-well stays on that channel  ::)

Thanks to DFS if you're using 5Ghz there is never that guarantee unless you stick to the lower channels.
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: meritez on January 12, 2021, 09:30:14 AM
nothing flash required, just need one where, when I set the wifi channel (esp. on 5GHz), it bl00dy-well stays on that channel  ::)

ideally less than £50, and one that syncs as fast or faster than my old HG623, and deffo faster than the all fur coat and no knickers TT wifi hub (POS)  >:(

oh, and with a decent user interface (again, not like the all fur coat and no knickers TT wifi hub (POS) )

A retail boxed VMG3925-B10C is £39 from this seller on Ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZYXEL-Wireless-AC-N-VDSL2-Gateway-Router-VMG3925-B10C-Gaming-Video-HD/274630722469
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 12, 2021, 12:00:58 PM
Thanks to DFS if you're using 5Ghz there is never that guarantee unless you stick to the lower channels.

It's the flippin' sky Q box that's doing it - it's on a fixed frequency, so I move router 5GHz band away from it, only to ch 52, come down in the morning and the router's moved itself to ch.100, outside the range of most of the wifi adapters.

Also, the TT Wifi Hub syncs at around 7 meg less than the old HG623  >:(
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: meritez on January 12, 2021, 12:44:26 PM
It's the flippin' sky Q box that's doing it - it's on a fixed frequency, so I move router 5GHz band away from it, only to ch 52, come down in the morning and the router's moved itself to ch.100, outside the range of most of the wifi adapters.

Also, the TT Wifi Hub syncs at around 7 meg less than the old HG623  >:(

which firmware do you have on the TT Wifi Hub, I have found a list of download links here: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/openwrt-based-talktalk-sagemcom-fast-5364-tinkering/49961/69?
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 12, 2021, 12:46:13 PM
A retail boxed VMG3925-B10C is £39 from this seller on Ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZYXEL-Wireless-AC-N-VDSL2-Gateway-Router-VMG3925-B10C-Gaming-Video-HD/274630722469

thanks, I'll bear that in mind....only got 30-day warranty though..
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 12, 2021, 12:55:06 PM
which firmware do you have on the TT Wifi Hub, I have found a list of download links here: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/openwrt-based-talktalk-sagemcom-fast-5364-tinkering/49961/69?

that's interesting....I'm on 2816t... might have a play (once I've got a new router  ;) )
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: meritez on January 12, 2021, 01:01:29 PM
that's interesting....I'm on 2816t... might have a play (once I've got a new router  ;) )

There's a guide here on how to downgrade and enable developer mode, turn off tr-069 updates etc: https://github.com/shiroiokami85/talktalk_fast_5364

thanks, I'll bear that in mind....only got 30-day warranty though..

Yes, sorry it's very difficult to find a 5ghz capable vdsl router in the sub £50 budget range
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: Chunkers on January 12, 2021, 02:11:15 PM
I like the Fritz!Box 7530 (https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7530/), it can be had cheaply on ebay as it is given out for free by ISP's and people sell them off, I have two and they both performed well while I used them.

I think its good value for £50 on ebay and better supported than a lot of the cheaper off the shelf routers

C

Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: tubaman on January 12, 2021, 02:44:18 PM
For under £50 I'd certainly be looking at something like the ZyXel 3925 mentioned earlier, as you will struggle to get a decent new unit for that money.
 :)
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 14, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
Thanks to DFS if you're using 5Ghz there is never that guarantee unless you stick to the lower channels.

how common is that on new kit?? (I'm a bit out of touch these days) and more to the point can you turn it off on most stuff??
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: broadstairs on January 14, 2021, 12:17:36 PM
DFS is a requirement in the UK, however OFCOM did issue a consultation on this last year with the intent of removing the requirement but I've not found out if/whether this has happened yet!

Stuart
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: meritez on January 14, 2021, 12:34:29 PM
thanks, I'll bear that in mind....only got 30-day warranty though..

Seller is open to offers, they messaged me today and offered it for £34, so I'm sure you could barter if you wanted
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 14, 2021, 01:28:29 PM
DFS is a requirement in the UK, however OFCOM did issue a consultation on this last year with the intent of removing the requirement but I've not found out if/whether this has happened yet!

Stuart

Thanks for that. Hopefully they'll see sense and can it!!
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 14, 2021, 01:29:15 PM
Seller is open to offers, they messaged me today and offered it for £34, so I'm sure you could barter if you wanted

thanks....I'm keeping that as a backup option at the moment....
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: Newfie on January 14, 2021, 03:07:48 PM
DFS is a requirement in the UK, however OFCOM did issue a consultation on this last year with the intent of removing the requirement but I've not found out if/whether this has happened yet!

Stuart

I believe they are only looking at UNII 3 which is channels 149 and above which we can use but 99% of routers donít support it. I asked the same on SNB thinking the same but when I looked it was in that band and so restrictions will stay in place.
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: meritez on January 14, 2021, 04:04:51 PM
DFS is a requirement in the UK, however OFCOM did issue a consultation on this last year with the intent of removing the requirement but I've not found out if/whether this has happened yet!

Stuart

Latest White Paper I can find on 5ghz is this one : http://wifinigel.blogspot.com/2018/05/updated-white-paper-on-license-exempt.html
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: broadstairs on January 15, 2021, 03:15:40 PM
I think https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/improving-spectrum-access-for-wi-fi (https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/improving-spectrum-access-for-wi-fi) explains what is happening quite well regarding DFS and Wi-Fi channels.

Stuart
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: GunJack on January 16, 2021, 03:00:34 PM
Thanks all who've commented on here, gone for the ZyXel 3925 on ebay linked to earlier....offered £32 and seller accepted :)
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: j0hn on January 16, 2021, 03:25:13 PM
Quote from: Ofcom
Remove the Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) requirements from channels used by Wi-Fi in the 5.8 GHz band (5725-5850 MHz). DFS requires a router to scan for radars and to switch channel if suspected radar transmissions are detected. DFS can therefore represent a constraint for equipment manufacturers regarding quality of service and throughput as well as being the cause of connection delays for users. We are amending the requirements on this band on the basis that the risk of undue interference from indoor Wi-Fi use is extremely low. The removal of DFS will increase its use for indoor wireless applications and help reduce congestion in other bands.

See Ofcom document: Improving spectrum access for Wi-Fi - Spectrum use in the 5 GHz and 6 GHz bands (https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0036/198927/6ghz-statement.pdf), Publication Date: 24 July 2020.

[Moderator edited to add an attribution for the above quoted statement.]
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: snadge on January 17, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
jumping on here if it's ok, rather start a new subject about the same exact thing?

had my ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A for a few years now and has been good enough...for LAN connections anyway

- crap 5Ghz for me though...so LAN'd everything in (PC, TV, XBOX) but need Cat5e+ cables as I'm only getting 100Mbp from PC to router when I have 1Gbps port on PC and router - but LG B8 OLED is only 100M/bit (for £2000 in 2018 you would think it would it would be 1Gbps? as I can't play very-high bitrate 4K over LAN or 5Ghz WiFi (in the same room as the router, just 10ft away) - I have to use a USB hard-drive in the TV for a couple of my 4K rips, cos 100Mbps isn't enough for 4K that hasn't been further compressed from the disc (which I prefer not to do), action scenes can spike to well over 100Mbps, still scenes (like talking) no problems, I have 1 errored second per hour on average..isn't that enough for Fastpath??

anyway,
Im looking at something new maybe this FritzBox 7530 (https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7530/) as my Cab is also Lantiq/Infineon/Intel so I might get a better sync? as my max is 76MBps (used to be 79Mbps and used to get it 24-7 until Aug 2018 after 12-4AM then dropped to 64Mbps dot on 4am and been there ever since) so, as I say my current sync is 64Mbps with error protection always on with a MAX of 76.5Mbps

i see there is also a newer BROADCOM SoC out -  BCM63168V on latest ZyXEL VMG9827-B50A


anyone with this FritzBox or anyone else has any advice?

thanks in advance
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: j0hn on January 17, 2021, 02:56:29 PM
My advise is stick with what you have as far as the modem/router is concerned.

Most TV's only have 100Mb ports. They don't need to do anything higher than that.

Just bought a 55" LG CX OLED (2020) and it has a 100Mb Ethernet port.
I expect the 2021 model to have the same.

Curious what high bitrate 4k that the LG supports that you can't play with 100Mb/s?
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: meritez on January 17, 2021, 03:08:17 PM
@snadge

I'm currently investigating 4k video issues over fast ethernet ports for my parents.

They are on a eci lantiq cab, they were using a Netgear dm200 in bridge mode as the modem, but as the lights are not easy to understand I swapped it to a comtrend vr3030, makes family tech support easier.

Anyway they currently have a tenda nova MW3 mesh network in place, lg 4k TV is wired into one of the nodes, but TV will never push more than hd content, FTTC syncs at 60/20.

If I install a Mikrotik wireless bridge, even something as cheap as two Mikrotik hAP lites, which are £17.99 on Amazon, 4k works on iPlayer, YouTube, Amazon Prime and Disney+.

All devices have fast ethernet ports,but the Mikrotik QoS just seems to do what is needed to deliver 4k content.

I have seen the Fritz!box 7583 is available, latest Intel lantiq chipset vrx618, not seen a good price as of yet.

Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: broadstairs on January 17, 2021, 03:12:04 PM
As for wifi on a router I gave up on all my routers a while ago and got a 3 disc mesh system which gives me much better coverage in my old house. This tablet has a 433Mbps connection on 5Ghz and actual d/l speeds over 45Mbps using this mesh kit.

Stuart
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: Chunkers on January 17, 2021, 08:24:06 PM
jumping on here if it's ok, rather start a new subject about the same exact thing?

had my ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A for a few years now and has been good enough...for LAN connections anyway

- crap 5Ghz for me though...so LAN'd everything in (PC, TV, XBOX) but need Cat5e+ cables as I'm only getting 100Mbp from PC to router when I have 1Gbps port on PC and router - but LG B8 OLED is only 100M/bit (for £2000 in 2018 you would think it would it would be 1Gbps? as I can't play very-high bitrate 4K over LAN or 5Ghz WiFi (in the same room as the router, just 10ft away) - I have to use a USB hard-drive in the TV for a couple of my 4K rips, cos 100Mbps isn't enough for 4K that hasn't been further compressed from the disc (which I prefer not to do), action scenes can spike to well over 100Mbps, still scenes (like talking) no problems, I have 1 errored second per hour on average..isn't that enough for Fastpath??

anyway,
Im looking at something new maybe this FritzBox 7530 (https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7530/) as my Cab is also Lantiq/Infineon/Intel so I might get a better sync? as my max is 76MBps (used to be 79Mbps and used to get it 24-7 until Aug 2018 after 12-4AM then dropped to 64Mbps dot on 4am and been there ever since) so, as I say my current sync is 64Mbps with error protection always on with a MAX of 76.5Mbps

i see there is also a newer BROADCOM SoC out -  BCM63168V on latest ZyXEL VMG9827-B50A


anyone with this FritzBox or anyone else has any advice?

thanks in advance

I happen to have both these routers (VMG8924 and Fritz!box 7530).  In my own case the Fritzbox gives a marginally faster DSL connection speed but the wireless performance is broadly similar - but then my experience is that most decent (i.e. not cheap-ass) wireless routers perform very similarly on wireless duties when using the same protocol and in the same position, so not much of a surprise (to me).

In my case I started using separate WAP's as the advantage of having them separate seems to be largely that you can position them well to maximise signal strength and coverage.

C
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on January 18, 2021, 05:54:19 AM
In my case I started using separate WAP's as the advantage of having them separate seems to be largely that you can position them well to maximise signal strength and coverage.

C

My speed went up dramatically on 5Ghz when I got the nanoHD, nothing I had before (including the Fritzbox 7530) got close to the 800Mbit it can do.

Not just in the same room either, I get much faster speeds in the bathroom which is about as obstructed as you can get in the house.
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: tubaman on January 18, 2021, 08:25:09 AM
My speed went up dramatically on 5Ghz when I got the nanoHD, nothing I had before (including the Fritzbox 7530) got close to the 800Mbit it can do.

Not just in the same room either, I get much faster speeds in the bathroom which is about as obstructed as you can get in the house.

Interestingly I can get an 5GHz 866Mbps connection rate to my VMG8924 with my work laptop (the only device I have capable of this speed).
It's also pretty pointless when the VDSL line rate is ~40Mbps.  :lol:
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: snadge on January 18, 2021, 02:40:38 PM
My advise is stick with what you have as far as the modem/router is concerned.

Most TV's only have 100Mb ports. They don't need to do anything higher than that.

Just bought a 55" LG CX OLED (2020) and it has a 100Mb Ethernet port.
I expect the 2021 model to have the same.

Curious what high bitrate 4k that the LG supports that you can't play with 100Mb/s?

politely, I'm afraid your partially incorrect - having had this TV 2 years I can tell you a few won't play - forget compressed streams, I'm on about remuxed rips direct from the original 4K disc - especially if they used a 100GB disc and not a 50GB disc (fit more detail/info with higher bitrates on 100GB discs)

to note: a REMUX is when you rip your original 4K disc BUT only pull the 'untouched movie from it' (not further compressed in any way so it's exactly like having the movie there), leaving all the rest of the crap behind, allowing you to store it on a NAS drive or PC HDD and stream across the LAN so you can watch without swapping discs AND they stay nice n new (unscratched) on the shelf...

E.G. would be the new remaster of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA in 70mm (remuxed only) or a REMUX of something in Dolby Vision that was put on a 100GB disc (less compression from the raw footage in the "cutting room"), try streaming a remuxed rip of those from LAN PC to LAN LG and you will see it buffer and freeze - this is because action sequences or lots of screen movement can take the bitrate much higher than 100Mbps...some can even go into 200Mbps for a quick second or so - see AVforums for more info on this...

as for the FRITZ router,,, there are reports of people getting higher syncs than that of the one I have.. comes with tons of software too..i know it doesn't mean I will - but worth a blast if u can get em cheap enough, and if crap just re-sell it



Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: snadge on January 18, 2021, 02:44:50 PM
I happen to have both these routers (VMG8924 and Fritz!box 7530).  In my own case the Fritzbox gives a marginally faster DSL connection speed but the wireless performance is broadly similar - but then my experience is that most decent (i.e. not cheap-ass) wireless routers perform very similarly on wireless duties when using the same protocol and in the same position, so not much of a surprise (to me).

In my case I started using separate WAP's as the advantage of having them separate seems to be largely that you can position them well to maximise signal strength and coverage.

C

cheers that makes number 3 that gets higher sync on that FRITZ than the ZyXEL 8924-B10A - hell it may even give me my 76MBps sync it says is attainable but only get 64 on the 8924?
Title: Re: Need A New VDSL Router....
Post by: j0hn on January 18, 2021, 04:28:51 PM
cheers that makes number 3 that gets higher sync on that FRITZ than the ZyXEL 8924-B10A - hell it may even give me my 76MBps sync it says is attainable but only get 64 on the 8924?

If it increases sync it will be a 1 or 2 Mb/s at most, but probably less. You won't be able to achieve the reported attainable rate

Your attainable is so high because you have interleaving enabled.
The max data rate is reported incorrectly with interleaving enabled and without removing interleaving is extremely unlikely any modem would get anywhere near the reported attainable.

The 7530 synced 0.5Mb/s lower than my Zyxel VMG1312-B10A, but every line is different.

Matching DSLAM and modem Vendor being best practice is a myth. As above every line is different.