Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: tiffy on November 23, 2020, 09:07:05 PM
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Wondering what the current feeling is regarding Zen as a BB & phone provider ?
Have been waiting patiently for my current 12 month contract and advance line rental payments to run out with Plusnet at the end of December, however, have just come to the end of my tether as PN has closed out my very long standing ticket, unresolved which originated in November 2018 (yes 2018) just after the edvent of their disastrous new billing system.
What really annoyed me was the second last entry on the ticket stated it was on hold until the next billing date 27/11/20 and the last entry (by the same person on the same date) stated the ticket was closed out !
So, have decided to take the hit on line rental and early contract exit to preserve my sanity, only a month at most and leave PN.
I don't currently have a FTTP option, not likely in the near future due to my location.
40/10 FTTC service is the best my line can do.
I do have Virgin service on the footpath outside my property, co-ax cabling dating back to NTL days with the dist. box at the bottom of the street, however, have always been suspicious of Virgin despite the fact that I could get much higher speeds on cable than FTTC.
To be honest 40/10 service is sufficient for my requirements at present.
Zen is currently at the top of my preference list with respect to price versus service expectations, wise choice or otherwise ?
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Hi tiffy,
I have two FTTC lines, one with Zen and up until 6 months ago the other with PlusNet. When the contract expired with PlusNet I switched the line to Zen.
The main reason I did this was because on the (few) occasions I had problems or wanted to speak to someone at PlusNet it was incredibly difficult and frustrating to get support and the waiting times were long and the support fairly poor. The PlusNet connection itself, speed and reliability was OK and comparable to Zen in most respects.
My other line has been with Zen for many years and in general I have always had good support from them, with responsive support and knowledge people - I decided its worth the extra couple of quid a month.
So, I like Zen, but to be honest if I had the option of a faster cable or fibre connection at comparable prices then I would probably go for that in preference to any FTTC connection, what speed would your Virgin cable connection be at?
C
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I think Zen are good. I used to use them and then switched to Andrews and Arnold.
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I will be sticking with Zen and dropping Plusnet once I can get FTTP. Its kinda hard to judge either ISP conclusively due to load-balancing across the two though I was having issues with YouTube stalling earlier which seemed to be going over the Plusnet line.
I do not have calls with Zen though, as I have BT Basic.
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Thanks to all for the interest and advice.
I know Weaver is a big fan of A & A, I have no doubt their support is very likely the best currently available however, just out of my price range.
I've been with Plusnet for over 11 years ADSL/VDSL, never had any issues until the new billing system was introduced, nothing but issues since then which they seem totally incapable of fixing at source, just go around in circles month after month, must have cost them very heavily in lost customers.
Never really needed tech support until April this year when I feel I was was badly let down, yes, was in the middle of the major covid lock down but I felt they used the situation to opt out of responsibility and could have done much more to help.
All support has become even poorer now, can't raise a support ticket on line any more, chat line is closed, only leaves the very frustrating and time consuming telephone support (not 24 hour).
In response to my unresolved closed out ticket issue reported in the first post, I managed to raise an on line complaint ticket which did produce a telephone call the next day from a very polite lady who I felt genuinly tried to help but sounded more frustrated with the situation than myself and in the end was not in a position to provide any answers or solutions!
So, I like Zen, but to be honest if I had the option of a faster cable or fibre connection at comparable prices then I would probably go for that in preference to any FTTC connection, what speed would your Virgin cable connection be at?
By post code indicates up to M350 service with Virgin Media with current offers available.
Yes, I know it would make sense to consider that option but I just have a bad feeling about Virgin Media which I can't really substantiate!
Perhaps my perception of cable will change after a short contract with another ISP, inevitable further degradation of OR FTTC service with cross talk and the frustration of FTTP non-availability in my area?
I like the 12 month contract availability with Zen, fewer ISP's now provide this with 18/24 months becoming the norm, if things don't work out it's cumforting to know that the choice of trying another ISP is never that far away without the hassle of trying to negotiate around contract early exit charges.
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I like the 12 month contract availability with Zen, fewer ISP's now provide this with 18/24 months becoming the norm, if things don't work out it's cumforting to know that the choice of trying another ISP is never that far away without the hassle of trying to negotiate around contract early exit charges.
While that may be true for the "superfast" services at Zen (which are relevant to you), that doesn't apply to their "ultrafast" services which are now 24 months. It's a shame they cranked up the contract length for their ultrafast services - and the 160/30 has been abolished, so for someone on G.fast I would have to opt for 330/50. After my contract ended, I told them 160/30 is enough and 24 months was too long, and I was told they don't sell the service anymore. After a bit of back and forth, I managed to renegotiate ultrafast 330/50 on a 12 month term at a 10% discount with them instead of leaving, which isn't going to be an option to new customers - this worked out not being too much more expensive over a year when factoring in costs of switching provider for a 160/30 service.
Apologies if this isn't relevant to you, since I do not think they are going to touch the contracts for superfast options soon. But it's just my experience. Otherwise, can't really say much other than this. They've been solid for me, except the fact I think there is a fault or high degree of external interference on my line and they don't agree - but I would imagine it would be the same with any ISP.
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Sorry to butt in but does Plusnet still have that line profile thing where it inevitably gets stuck and your speed is capped for no apparent reason
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Yes the Plusnet "Current line speed" still exists but only affects those who have purchased a static WAN IP address.
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@re0:
Thanks for the informtion found interesting.
G.Fast only ever came to one very small area of N.I. and will obviously never progress any further now with the FTTP roll out, would never have been an option for me anyway with a 26dB DS attenuation line.
Yes, excessive line interference/noise can be an issue which is very hard to prove and as you say most ISP's are very reluctant to get too involved as they in turn probably have difficulty in getting OR interested as long as the service is above the hand back threshold speed.
@GigabitEthernet:
Sorry can't really comment on your question or been aware of the issue even though I do have a static WAN IP address from PN.
Hopefully re0 has provided an answer.
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I guess mine is probably stuck on Zen but with zero impact as Your current maximum download speed is 77421Kbps but current sync is 67.000 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s.
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Decided to sign up with Zen yesterday, certainly not the cheapest option available but on a 1 year contract I'am willing to take the chance that the service and support is as good as the majority of patrons claim.
Signed up by phone, bit of a delay on the sales line but I'am willing to accept that's currently acceptable with the majority of their staff working from home with reduced numbers.
40/10 VDSL and phone service, migration scheduled for 15/12/20, normal 2 weeks.
Obviously, very early days but everything has happened as promised to date including members access to their portal and termination notification received from my current ISP, Plusnet after Zen's contact.
Spent quite some time today copying my Plusnet question history from the last 2 years when things started to go badly wrong, was surprised at the size of the archive produced, the longest question snapshots produced a 40 page Word document, this question had been closed out by PN unresolved as had quite a few others.
Thought it best to have this information to hand in case there are any billing issues after departure when portal access would no longer be possible and OFCOM involvement might possibly be required.
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PN to Zen BB & phone changeover took place today shortly after midnight completely on schedule.
Event recorded on DSLStats via my ZyXEL 1312-B10A modem (and RPi), obviously had to enter new Zen ID & PW into the ZyXEL 3925-B10B router, PPP session quickly re-established.
Have received the Fritz!Box 7530 modem/router on schedule a few days ago but have not utilised as yet, thought it best to retain the existing setup for a better like for like ISP comparison.
Initial observations:
Latency has increased slightly, not a gamer & don't use VOIP so not a big issue.
DS G.Inp & re-tx low profile have been retained.
DS SNRM has increased from approx 3 to 6dB with associated DS synch speed & BRAS IP profile decrease, likely DLM reset as expected.
As my line was already performing to it's full potential with PN and it's very unlikely that anything has changed with the OR infrastructure, I have no expectation of increased performance with Zen even when 3dB DS SNRM is re-established, the object of the exercise being to escape from the abismal PN administrative system all be it with a hit on cost.
Hopefully won't get any surprises from PN regarding final billing :fingers:
Obviously very early days with Zen but nothing but praise to date ;D
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Apparently theres a WiFi 6 version of the 7530, shame Zen haven't adopted it.
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Apparently theres a WiFi 6 version of the 7530, shame Zen haven't adopted it.
That'll be the Fritzbox 7530 AX.
I'm not aware of any ISP's providing WiFi 6 routers/Hubs.
The 7530 is 1 of the better ISP provided devices.
I'm more inclined to praise Zen for providing such a good modem/router than to criticize them for not supplying the AX variant.
With such little adoption of WiFi 6 it seems a bit overkill to supply it by default to all customers.
Making it an option during sign-up for a fee (it cost around £160) would be good for those who would utilize it.
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I've had a little play with the supplied Ftitz!Box 7530's GUI off line, lots of features, may give it a go at some stage in router only mode, won't be parting with my trusty ZyXEL 1312-B10A as modem, works very well on my line and of course provides a good interface with DSLStats via RPi, I know j0hn was a big fan also back in his DSL FTTC days.
Enhanced Wi-Fi's not a big issue for me as most of the house is LAN hard wired.
Certainly won't be "rocking the boat" for a few weeks until at or near DS 3dB SNRM is again achieved.
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It wasn't a criticism, more a wishful thinking as last time I re-contracted they sent me a new router for free ::)
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Since migration from PN to Zen on 15/12 with the associated DLM reset, appear to be stepping back towards DS 3dB SNRM from the default 6dB as would be expected, DLM re-synch early hours on 17/12 and again today.
Have retained G.Inp DS re-tx low profile throughout until this mornings re-synch, has now changed to high.
Annoying, as the gain in DS data speed associated with the DS synch speed increase has been negated by the decrease in DS BRAS IP profile from re-tx low to high change.
As my DS ES rate has been zero and DS FEC error/hr daily rate running in the low hundreds since the DLM reset, lowest ever observed, can't really understand why G.Inp re-tx profile has changed to high.
Will wait until DLM reverts DS SNRM back to near 3dB and if G.Inp re-tx profile has not reverted to low will probably have to go through a modem DS speed clamping exercise again which eventually works all be it taking 14 days previously.
So far so good with Zen, everything has happened on schedule to date, latency has remained higher, approx. 22ms. with PN increased to approx. 30ms. with Zen, not an issue for me.
Obviously, they have no control over DLM action resulting from the ISP change DLM reset.
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What I would think is the final DLM re-synch in this series occured this morning as DS 3dB SNRM has been achieved again, has stepped down from 6dB in 1dB steps at 2 day intervals since DLM reset (ISP change) on 15/12.
Unfortunately DS G.Inp re-tx high profile remains, changed from low on one of the previous DLM re-synch steps after surviving the initial DLM reset on migration, will let the line fully stabilise now over Xmas period then implement modem DS speed cap which certainly has worked previously in attaining DS G.Inp re-tx low profile.
Latency has also virtually returned to previous ISP timing, probably the only variable factor associated with an ISP change in this case, other changes being a product of normal DLM action/reset on the same line/DSLAM with the same speed provision.
Obviously, still not in a position to express much of an opinion on Zen's services or support as yet as everything has occured completely to expectation and totally to schedule have had no reason to establish contact, so far so good.
Will see what Plusnet come up with on my "final" bill which is due on 28/12, from their admin systems performance over the last 2 years on my account will be very surprised if this is correct.
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Apologies if this has turned into a monolog on my part and not so much an appraisal of Zen as an ISP but more of a blow by blow account of line recovery from an ISP change and the associated DLM reset, hopefully will still be of some interest to anyone who has or is contemplating going through a similar change process.
8 days after attaining DS SNRM of 3dB, DLM showed no signs of reverting DS G.Inp re-tx profile back to low even though all parameters that are "believed" to be possible factors, DS FEC ER, G.Inp LEFTRS & rtx_uc were all exibiting non existant or very low error rates, decided that DS modem speed clamping would be applied to encourage DLM action.
After 3 days of modem DS speed clamping (DS 32 Mbps on a normally 40 Mbps synch line), DLM reverted DS G.Inp re-tx back to low profile, much shorter time scale than previous a few months ago (took 14 days of applied clamp), likely due to the pre-clamp error rate being much lower (in particular DS FEC error rate) than with the previous exercise.
Have left the existing modem clamp active at the same speed, after a few days of stability will start to increase the clamp speed in steps back up to my line max synch speed, this procedure worked well for me last time and retained G.Inp re-tx low profile on the line without annoying DLM.
Regarding Zen, certainly no isses so far with no reason to make contact, everything just works!
No final bill from Plusnet as yet, passed my normal billing date of 28/12, no surprises there really going by previous performance.
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Its always interesting to see how different peoples lines recover from a DLM reset. It helps keep the knowledge of how this works current.
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Apologies if this has turned into a monolog on my part . . .
No apologies are required. :)
I am sure that many of us follow your updates, with interest.
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Thanks to both "senior" patrons for the endorsement, being suitably encouraged will continue the saga to the bitter end :)
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No final bill from Plusnet as yet, passed my normal billing date of 28/12, no surprises there really going by previous performance.
I am also considering moving from Plusnet after billing issues each and every month.
Any update on your final bill?
This would be my worse fear - I end up continuing to pay Plusnet and endure their billing nightmare and having to pay my new ISP also.
Thanks
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No final bill from Plusnet as yet, passed my normal billing date of 28/12, no surprises there really going by previous performance.
Plusnet are shocking for passing debts on to debt collection agencies.
They passed on my final £8 a month mobile bill to a 3rd party despite never billing me for it and the direct debit remaining active. This £8 jumped to around £30 if memory serves me correctly.
I had to call to correct this.
It's worth calling them and attempting to settle any final bill rather than waiting for them to invoice you or take the direct debit.
Their forums are full of similar stories.
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I am also considering moving from Plusnet after billing issues each and every month.
Any update on your final bill?
This would be my worse fear - I end up continuing to pay Plusnet and endure their billing nightmare and having to pay my new ISP also.
Thanks
Ironically enough, I just received notification of what I hope is my "final" PN bill this afternoon and I am in credit by £4 odd, that's even with an early termination fee of £5 odd applied, not actually received the refund as yet.
Of course, considering my experience with PN since their new billing system was introduced in late 2018, nothing would surprise me, I can only hope that this is in fact my last bill!
From my latter experience with PN late last year, I found that the best course of action was to raise a complaint, as it is no longer possible to raise a question on line, the chat line is never active, the telephone support is useless and the staff on the members forum ignore everything other than the most basic issues there is really no other choice, I'am surprised that avenue has not been closed down yet.
My advice would be, bite the bullet, if you are out of or near the end of contract, leave as soon as you can, with over 2 years of administrative issues which PN appear to be totally incapable of resolving there is no reason to believe that there will ever be any quick solutions to PN's problems.
I would also advise keeping "snapshots" of any open, unresolved or pending questions, have found these can be mysteriously closed out and even disappear completely, best to have a personal record in case it becomes necessary to involve OFCOM at some later stage.
I found all PN site access was barred on ISP migration day with the exception of billing access.
If your primary e-mail contact is your PN address, be sure to change this before migration day as PN e-mail is also closed down quickly and any future communication from PN regarding billing etc will be lost.
j0hn's cross post acknowledged.
More very good reasons to escape from PN sooner rather than later!
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Now back to max attainable DS synch speed, for my contract and line, while still retaining DS G.Inp re-tx low profile and a reasonably low DS FEC error rate which will hopefully ensure that re-tx low profile (higher DS BRAS IP profile) remains.
After convincing DLM to apply DS re-tx low profile by virtue of DS modem speed clamp, increased the clamp setting in two stages at 2 day intervals back to my contractural/line limit of 40 Mbps while ensuring that re-tx low profile was retained.
I am aware that leaving a 40 Mbps DS modem clamp applied appears to be a fruitless exercise on a 40 Mbps contracted service and I certainly can not offer any logical explanation for doing so, however, from past experience of a similar exercise with my previous ISP have found that this actually appears to decrease my DS FEC daily error rate which I still believe to be one of the factors in DLM's analysis of G.Inp re-tx profile selection.
My modem is running on a UPS so can be reasonably certain that the applied clamp will be retained until I have a need to remove or change the setting.
No interaction with Zen required to date, as per previous, everything just works.
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Everything nice and stable on the line, very happy with synch and data speeds which I believe to be the best achievable on my rather long line with DSL FTTC service.
Have actually received the promised DD refund from Plusnet as per what I very much hope is (and certainly should be) the final bill.
Received my first billing DD notification from Zen, for the first time in some 28 months a monthly bill from my ISP which is correct, totally understandable and does not contain any anomalies or surprises, definately a luxury I've not recently experienced.
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I seem to be lucky, the only anomaly I've had on my Plusnet line was a rogue charge for calling 123 and that happened on both my lines so I can only assume it was some incompetent engineer at the cabinet doing something they shouldn't be.