Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: fat jez on January 29, 2020, 08:49:27 PM

Title: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: fat jez on January 29, 2020, 08:49:27 PM
[This post (and those that follow) have been split off from bkehoe (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=8836)'s topic G.Fast Installed (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24112.0.html).]

I'm using one of these with my Huawei modem:
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-patch-leads/adslvdslcat5patchlead05m/

Not entirely sure it has the best sync rate and lowest noise as I struggled to attain full sync speed initially and the OR engineer indicated I should be syncing around 375 down according his equipment. It is supposed to be cat5e cable and I have the new style G.fast wall socket which filters extensions.

That said, according to the wholesale checker, I also have a bridge tap, which seems unlikely if my extensions are being filtered at the master socket.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on January 29, 2020, 10:25:10 PM
My dsl cable was brought from this company back in 2012 https://www.tandyonline.com/electronics/telecoms-dsl/high-speed-rj11-dsl-cable-0-5m.html (was changed to the same one from this company last year but 2m cable long)
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 12, 2020, 09:11:53 PM
Anyway, from what I've found, the Belkin "Hi-Speed" F3L900CP1.8MWHS cable that I bought back in 2014 seems to have one of the best Attainable and SNR despite being Cat. 5

Found this cable one here: https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/15184-belkin-f3l900cp1-8mwhs/
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: meritez on November 13, 2020, 09:25:23 AM
I'm using this cable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SCBA09K/
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 14, 2020, 10:24:02 PM
I'm using this cable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SCBA09K/

I have ordered this cable!
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 14, 2020, 10:24:58 PM
Anyway, from what I've found, the Belkin "Hi-Speed" F3L900CP1.8MWHS cable that I bought back in 2014 seems to have one of the best Attainable and SNR despite being Cat. 5

I have ordered this cable too
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Weaver on November 15, 2020, 12:21:01 AM
The Belkin and Kenable ones look good. I have used a lot of the Tandy/ADSL Nation ones and have promoted them on the forum; the only slight disadvantage of them is that they are RJ-11 to RJ-11 not RJ-11 to RJ-45, so they are not a 100% ideal snap fit at the faceplate end. I  did manage to get some RJ-11 to RJ-45 from somewhere now, can’t recall where unfortunately. The most important thing of all is length; as far as I can see making them ridiculously short is everything - If you do so, then you can’t go wrong and that’s why I use 0.5m cables wherever possible, or 1m perhaps where necessary. So many cables are too long.

I noticed some of the blurb for one of the cables was saying "ten times faster"; lying hounds! There’s no advertising standards authority in such a situation though.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: re0 on November 15, 2020, 05:00:24 AM
Back when I was on ADSLx, cables made very little difference - even at varying lengths (something like 0.5m to 2m), considering the line was already attenuated like it was 3km long, the internal cable was miniscule in the grand scheme. I mean, it was somewhat true for VDSL2, too. Everything just fell into the margin of error, that I remember.

The biggest difference was a good filter/splitter. From memory, on ADSLx, most were within about 5% of the highest performer (at least for speed, perhaps errors were worse). But some of the junk that came with cheapo ISP supplied kit and some of the crap I accumulated could exceed that margin.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Weaver on November 15, 2020, 07:15:36 AM
It’s different for me, because of the extreme length of the lines the rx signal in the house is so weak (low voltage) that electrical interference inside the house is much more significant; this plus the fact that noise on the line outside is extremely low due to the lack of electrical activity because there is no human habitation or industry along the line for the last 3 miles or so. This means that I think it’s fair to assume that short cables need to be of good quality (twisted pair at least).
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 18, 2020, 06:52:18 PM
I'm using this cable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SCBA09K/

My cable has arrived and connected to Hub One for testing the line quality.

1. Product name:Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number:*******************
3. Firmware version:Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.237.2.2 Last updated 10/11/17
4. Board version:Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime:0 days, 14:46:09
6. Data rate:19999 / 79903
7. Maximum data rate:26744 / 86026
8. Noise margin:18.2 / 9.6
9. Line attenuation:12.1 / 10.6
10. Signal attenuation:11.9 / 10.6
11. Data sent/received:665.0 MB / 9.6 GB
12. Broadband username:********************
13. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID:******* 2.4GHz
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections:Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 300 Mb/s))
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless security:WPA2
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel:1
17. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID:********* 5GHz
18. 5 GHz Wireless connections:Enabled (802.11 a/n/ac (up to 1300 Mb/s))
19. 5 GHz Wireless security:WPA2
20. 5 GHz Wireless channel:44
21. Firewall:Default
22. MAC Address:*****************
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on November 18, 2020, 09:54:41 PM
There really is no point if you are already at max sync though.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: 4candles on November 18, 2020, 09:57:52 PM
The clue is in the username.   ;)
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on November 19, 2020, 04:44:47 AM
The clue is in the username.   ;)

I know I know, had to say it though, its painful to watch.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: meritez on November 19, 2020, 10:06:34 AM
My cable has arrived and connected to Hub One for testing the line quality.

3. Firmware version:Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.237.2.2 Last updated 10/11/17


 :no: 2017 firmware  :no:

@adslmax how long have you had this Hub One?
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 22, 2020, 01:26:43 AM
Hub One has been stable for 3 days now as to my surprise the DSL Checker has changed my line estimated has gone up from 217/31 to 259/39 for G.fast thanks to new dsl cable.

1. Product name:Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number:*******************
3. Firmware version:Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.237.2.2 Last updated 10/11/17
4. Board version:Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime:3 days, 21:29:10
6. Data rate:19999 / 79903
7. Maximum data rate:26280 / 85897
8. Noise margin:18.1 / 9.5
9. Line attenuation:12.1 / 10.6
10. Signal attenuation:11.9 / 10.6
11. Data sent/received:6.1 GB / 92.7 GB
12. Broadband username:********************
13. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID:******* 2.4GHz
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections:Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 300 Mb/s))
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless security:WPA2
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel:1
17. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID:********* 5GHz
18. 5 GHz Wireless connections:Enabled (802.11 a/n/ac (up to 1300 Mb/s))
19. 5 GHz Wireless security:WPA2
20. 5 GHz Wireless channel:44
21. Firewall:Default
22. MAC Address:*****************

Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 22, 2020, 01:27:52 AM
:no: 2017 firmware  :no:

@adslmax how long have you had this Hub One?

I have asked Bob Pullen to sent me new firmware still waiting!
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Weaver on November 22, 2020, 01:33:23 AM
You would have to o several measurements to rule out the effects of DLM - see https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15905.msg307641.html#msg307641
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 22, 2020, 01:36:19 AM
I did that 30 minutes to wait before change new dsl cable. No affect in DLM so far. Seem strange Hub One has the best lower line attenuation at 10.6 much better than my other routers with new dsl cable.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Weaver on November 22, 2020, 01:41:24 AM
No, the thing is that just unplugging the modem causes a resynch which can cause figures to change, so two resynchs are better, as in that tiresome test procedure.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on November 22, 2020, 07:31:01 PM
Which of course runs the risk of triggering DLM, making the whole procedure not worth the hassle.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: re0 on November 22, 2020, 07:34:39 PM
Seem strange Hub One has the best lower line attenuation at 10.6 much better than my other routers with new dsl cable.
Which given the difference in chipset and how small the margin is anyway, it's not strange at all.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on November 22, 2020, 07:57:10 PM
The way I see it, most of these statistics are estimates anyway and no two modem firmwares, let alone chipsets, necessarily use the same maths to reach their result.  No two modems will have exactly the same sensitivity, no two seconds will have exactly the same line characteristics.  Its all estimations, so most fluctuations are margin of error or just different implementations.

The only true indication of a difference in cable performance is a consistently repeatable change in the error rates on the same line and hardware.  In 99.9% of cases, changing the cable will make zero measurable difference.

The only time its likely to make any difference is if the cable is bad or you have a long flat cable coiled up next to other equipment that is emitting very specific frequencies of RFI.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 22, 2020, 08:30:00 PM
I'm really averse to reply to this thread because I feel like each response just encourages @adslmax to become obsessed with something else, I really would advise for their own wellbeing that we stop humouring what is clearly a mental health issue.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 22, 2020, 11:56:27 PM
Which of course runs the risk of triggering DLM, making the whole procedure not worth the hassle.

Still no DLM action yet as far as I can seen.

1. Product name:Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number:*******************
3. Firmware version:Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.237.2.2 Last updated 10/11/17
4. Board version:Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime:4 days, 19:55:23
6. Data rate:19999 / 79903
7. Maximum data rate:23796 / 83018
8. Noise margin:15.3 / 6.7
9. Line attenuation:12.1 / 10.6
10. Signal attenuation:11.9 / 10.6
11. Data sent/received:6.3 GB / 95.4 GB
12. Broadband username:********************
13. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID:******* 2.4GHz
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections:Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 300 Mb/s))
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless security:WPA2
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel:1
17. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID:********* 5GHz
18. 5 GHz Wireless connections:Enabled (802.11 a/n/ac (up to 1300 Mb/s))
19. 5 GHz Wireless security:WPA2
20. 5 GHz Wireless channel:44
21. Firewall:Default
22. MAC Address:*****************
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: twinkletoes on November 23, 2020, 12:13:29 AM
Max, please stop the obsession with line stats every day and just use the internet! I recently got my full sync back about a month ago after two years of slower speeds and with the same patch cable I bought about 5 years ago.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: meritez on November 23, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
@adslmax have you got access to telnet or ssh, as we could use something like this to look at the lantiq modem in more detail:

https://github.com/moeller0/lantiq_dsl_parser

Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on November 23, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Still no DLM action yet as far as I can seen.

But why risk it?  You literally have nothing to gain as you already have full sync!
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: adslmax on November 23, 2020, 02:36:28 PM
Look like DLM banded has been disabled by last visit from Openreach engineer few years ago as when he come here he using his tool and phone up DLM data center to resetted DLM and probably disabled any future banded on the line because I haven't seen my line been banded ever since.
Title: Re: xDSL Patch Cables
Post by: j0hn on November 23, 2020, 02:50:09 PM
Look like DLM banded has been disabled by last visit from Openreach engineer few years ago as when he come here he using his tool and phone up DLM data center to resetted DLM and probably disabled any future banded on the line because I haven't seen my line been banded ever since.

Highly unlikely. Such an option doesn't exist.

The last time your line was banded there was something happening at your cabinet (probably maintenance as it was around 1am) and your line resynced about a dozen times.

DLM shouldn't be banding a line for swapping a patch cable once or twice.
The fact it hasn't banded your line isn't some magical setting by an engineer it's just the DLM working properly.