Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: wolvesmad on October 16, 2020, 07:37:16 PM

Title: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: wolvesmad on October 16, 2020, 07:37:16 PM
Just been routing through the wardrobe and found an old Speetouch 585v6 and a 2wire 2700.

Is there any value in these now?

Speetouch is boxed with accessories. 2wire just has its mains cable.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: psychopomp1 on October 16, 2020, 08:48:57 PM
Probably not worth much now considering these have been superseded by far newer kit. But i fondly remember, that in their heyday, these routers were legendary for holding onto very long/noisy adsl lines. The BT Business 2wire 2700 was the only router which didnít disconnect daily on my 6km long adsl line. RIP :)
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: 4candles on October 16, 2020, 09:02:20 PM
The BT Business 2wire 2700 was the only router which didnít disconnect daily on my 6km long adsl line. RIP :)
Indeed, a legendary icon.
I've got about half a dozen old routers I've been meaning to clear out, but I can't bear to part with the classic 2700.
EDIT:  Just remembered I've still got an Alcatel 'Frog' - that's staying too!
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: wolvesmad on October 16, 2020, 10:08:10 PM
It didn't seem to perform too well on my broadcom chipset line. The DG834GT and 585v6 seemed to be the best.

The 585v6 I used with DMT Tools to tweak the SNR down a bit. Managed 6.5Mbps on a 52db line on ADSL2+.

Those were the days.
 
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on October 17, 2020, 12:06:45 AM
It didn't seem to perform too well on my broadcom chipset line. The DG834GT and 585v6 seemed to be the best.

The 585v6 I used with DMT Tools to tweak the SNR down a bit. Managed 6.5Mbps on a 52db line on ADSL2+.

Those were the days.

That's interesting as I was never happy with any Speedtouch router, they seemed very unstable.

The 2700 and DG834GT were excellent units however, I had a ton of the latter and even recapped them when they started to fail.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Weaver on October 17, 2020, 08:45:38 AM
I was extremely impressed by the sophisticated software in the Speedtouch routers. I only tested one briefly once; I wish I had given one more of a trial. I had a dozen or more DG834v3 units (TI AR7-based) which I supplied to customers and used myself.

See this ancient post (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,4271.msg100647.html#msg100647) for comments about the DG834vx models. I should have done more testing with the Broadcom-based DG834v4. Looking at that post now, I should have also been a lot more careful about handling the changes brought about by DLM, as in some cases I was not comparing like with like as far as downstream SNRM was concerned. And I also didnít take a look at upstream.

Those old models certainly have some value now. Iíd love to test the BT 2700 or whatever it was (2-wire ?). I would most of all love to test a Speedtouch 585 now. If I were doing some back-to-back comparison tests like that now, I could do a much better job of it because now using Andrews and Arnold I can do a SNRM reset whenever I need to at the push of a button. If I were to do such tests now, it would be with G.992.3 on BT 21CN using a Broadcom-based DSLAM. I seem to recall that Kitz is not a big believer in CPE-DSLAM modem synergy but for those of us that do, and I have an open mind in this respect, there is now the possibility of Broadcom-based modems being favoured on my line.

I would love to borrow some of the old models, but would have to test them for a good while so wouldnít be able to return them quickly. If some are sickly and a kitizen could recap them as needed, then that would be ideal.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: displaced on October 17, 2020, 09:45:30 AM
Ahh... the 585v6 reminds me of my Be Unlimited days. They were an absolutely fantastic provider that stayed good for quite a while even after being swallowed-up by Telefonica.

That modem was with me back when I was still living with mum, came along when I moved in to a rented flat with my girlfriend, and briefly served when we bought our house together.

Itís probably still up in the loft!

Mind you, the HG612 on the wall in the hall has served longer - must be in its 8th year of 24/7 operation.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Weaver on October 17, 2020, 10:22:02 AM
@displaced : Iirc in those days my own ISP, Andrews and Arnold, offered service over a mixture of BT and Be lines. Were Be ADSL2 back then ?

Would that have meant that AA offered Be lines only when the exchange had Be LLU ? I donít know what Be did for end users where there was no LLU at an exchange, or what that meant in such a case in those days for the ISPs such as AA who wanted Beís wholesale service.

I seem to recall that in many cases AA offered end users a choice between a Be and a BT line; it wasnít just decided by AA based on numbers in a spreadsheet. They recommended having one of each kind of line for users with two bonded lines.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Weaver on October 17, 2020, 10:30:27 AM
Has anyone tried an HG612 on ADSL2/2+ ? Do they even support G.992.1 / G.992.3 / G.992.5 ?
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: displaced on October 17, 2020, 11:08:12 AM
@weaver - yes I think youíre right! At least I seem to remember the same thing!

Our Be lines were ADSL2, definitely - but I think it depended on the exchange.  Mumís house and the flat were both on the Orpington exchange and were both ADSL2.  Similar line qualities too, both about 10Mbit down and Iím pretty sure they were LLU.  No idea how that affected AAís ability to use their lines/backhaul though!

I transferred the account to Gravesend where we are now, but got only about 5Mbit on our ~600m long line.  Luckily FTTC had just rolled out because BT were fed up with Telewest/Virgin Media stealing all their customers.

As for the HG612ís ADSL2 abilities, let me go screenshot the admin page... :)

Always found Be very good.  They used eastern-European tech support that were brilliantly knowledgable.  On the odd occasion I had to call them, I was always prepared for the battle to reach 2nd or 3rd line support, but the first person who answered always seemed to have the know-how and tools available to sort out the problem in minutes.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: displaced on October 17, 2020, 11:11:08 AM
Hereís the modulation options.  Iíve never tinkered with these, so I imagine detects whatís on the line and uses the appropriate option.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: RealAleMadrid on October 17, 2020, 01:19:37 PM
I have used the HG612 on an ADSL_Max connection in the past but it doesn't automatically switch from the default VDSL2 mode. The WAN configuration has to be changed from PTM to ATM mode for the ADSL variants. My sync speed was the full 8128Mbps on a line length of about 2.5 Km.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on October 17, 2020, 03:50:45 PM
@weaver - yes I think youíre right! At least I seem to remember the same thing!

Our Be lines were ADSL2, definitely

ADSL2+, up to 24Mbit down, 1.2Mbit up.  I used to get 5Mbit down (>2.4KM with some aluminium in there) with 3dB SNRm, 1.1Mbit up.

I have a historical log of my connection from Be onwards on my site http://csdprojects.co.uk/ping/show/alexatkin
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: burakkucat on October 17, 2020, 04:33:46 PM
Has anyone tried an HG612 on ADSL2/2+ ? Do they even support G.992.1 / G.992.3 / G.992.5 ?

Yes. :)  A Kitz Wiki page (https://wiki.kitz.co.uk/index.php/Huawei_HG612) resulted from such usage.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Weaver on October 17, 2020, 08:02:36 PM
I was going to to say Ďthose were the daysí, but in my case the tense would be wrong; it would need to be something like Ďthose will hopefully be the days one dayí. I wish I could get something like >5 Mbps per line, Iím not at the Ďgood old daysí yet; my english language breaks down  ??? :)
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on October 17, 2020, 11:10:28 PM
I was going to to say Ďthose were the daysí, but in my case the tense would be wrong; it would need to be something like Ďthose will hopefully be the days one dayí. I wish I could get something like >5 Mbps per line, Iím not at the Ďgood old daysí yet; my english language breaks down  ??? :)

I could only push 3.5Mbit max once I moved onto Openreach (as no forcing 3dB SNRm) and the estimates now are 2Mbit.

Did you ever figure out of you can get any better off a different 4G network to what AAISP use?
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Weaver on October 17, 2020, 11:58:46 PM
We have EE and Three here; O2 is not so good. I am seriously thinking about the 4G plus AA L2TP VPN solution that was described by another AA using kitizen elsewhere. However I am concerned about the reliability and the speed. Our Three 4G is not very fast and I need to measure EE. I did a test just now in bed on my iPad using AA / AQL / Three 3G and it seems that 4G wasnít available; this measured 8 Mbps downstream / 0.88 Mbps upstream. This is slower than DSL but if tested in a window the results ought to be much better and 4G should be available. It is a line-of-sight location so thereís no excuse for 4G in a window not being really fast. There are times when 3G/4G simply goes out to lunch, yet combined bonded DSL for all practical purposes never ever fails even though individual lines go down occasionally.
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Weaver on October 18, 2020, 02:00:50 AM
@RealAleMadrid - Why only 8.128 Mbps down on such a short line ? I realise thatís the limit for G.992.1, but why isnít it selecting G.992.5 ?
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: RealAleMadrid on October 18, 2020, 08:24:18 AM
@Weaver. Simple answer, ADSL2+ was not available at the small village exchange. I think it did get upgraded but at about the same time as FTTC arrived so I moved to 80Mbps down 20Mbps up, quite a good result. ;D
Title: Re: Old ADSL2 + routers....any value?
Post by: Weaver on October 18, 2020, 09:09:26 PM
I was in that same boat until about five years ago. I should have remembered.