Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: bbnovice on September 07, 2020, 06:41:36 PM
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Hi everybody
FTTP has now arrived in our area at last, and I have ordered it as the FTTC service has seriously deteriorated over recent years. When I first signed up the download speed was a reliable 75 Mbs, but now (on a good day) the speed varies between 49-55 Mbs. I put this down to more interference on the line (I think a lot more end-users have signed up for FTTC since it first became available), and the fact there are aluminium sections between the house and the cabinet. BT swears there are no problem. So FTTP would be a godsend as I need it for working from home.
However I have reservations regarding the feasibility of actually installing FTTP to my house.
Firstly I should explain that the property is notionally a 4 bedroom detached house, but it is built on the side of a hill and so is of a peculiar design. From the front it looks like a 3 storey house, but from the rear it looks like a single storey bungalow. I won’t describe it any further – let’s just say it’s complicated!
The house is connected via BT ducting installed about 25 years ago (a long time after the house was first built) as part of an upgrade which covered the whole neighborhood. The duct to my house follows a very odd path which I discovered about 10 years ago. From the point of entry to the house, it travels about 2 meters due north, then turns due west and travels a further 1.5 metres. It then deviates again and travels about 15 metres due north to join the duct in the pavement. This zig zag route is necessary because of the design of the house coupled to some immovable objects in the garden. There seems to be lot of 90 degree bends.
The point where the cable exits the duct and enters the house may also present a difficulty. The cable runs 1.2 metres from the duct up the outside of the exterior wall and then enters the house where it is is directly connected into the rear of the NTE. The damp course of the house is 1 metres up the wall at this point due to the odd design of the property.
I forsee two problems: Firstly, the existing BT ducts may not be suitable for fibre (too many bends?); and secondly, the distance from the end of the duct to the highest allowable entry point into the house is in excess of the 770 mm permittted in the BT specifications for installation of a CSP.
I have tried to explain this to BT when I made the order, but they don’t seem to have any mechanisms for a dialogue with consumers who potentially may have a non standard installation. I was told there will be a 2 stage installation with the first stage on 16 September with a survey when apparently I do not have to be present. Well good luck with that as all the problem areas are behind a locked set of security gates.
I’m resigned to the second stage visit scheduled for 25th September (installation day) being a washout because the first stage visit will probably not identify the relevant issues. I just hope I’m proved wrong as I do need FTTP.
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It shouldn't be a problem as long as the duct is clear.
The bends can be negotiated quite easily.
They also don't need to install a CSP.
My FTTP (installed less than 4 weeks ago) comes straight up my duct on the exterior of the house, in through the entry point and in to the rear of my master socket.
Stage 1 will be pulling the fibre through and leaving it coiled up where the duct exits the ground, with stage 2 pulling it in the house and installing the ONT.
If they are fitting a CSP it will be done on stage 1 if it can be fitted. They aren't necessary though so if 1 isn't suitable it won't be used.
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Hi John
Thanks for the quick reply and I hope my install goes as smoothly as yours. Maybe I'm overthinking this and looking for problems where none exisits.
The reassurance is welcome - I'm really keen to have FTTP as my current FTTC connection is on course to be no longer fit for purpose.
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On reading through your description I could not see anything that would cause a problem with the installation. Assuming that the ducting is in good condition then the two bends should not be a problem.
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An update. An Openreach engineer unexpectedly turned up today to carry out a preliminary survey for FTTP. This was the visit where BT told me I did not have to be present and was scheduled for 16 September (according to the details on my order).
He needed to access the rear of the property but could not gain access due to the security gates – I did warn BT about this when I placed the order but they just ignored my warning. Luckily I was at home today so could unlock the gates.
The first problem was that initially the probe through the duct could only travel about 50% of the distance to the footpath. His first thought was that the duct might end prematurely and thereafter the cable could be buried in the front lawn. He was suspicious about why heavy duty armoured cable had been used if the run was ducted all the way. Also the end of the probe was a muddy mess when it was withdrawn.
Fortunately I know some of the history of the area. Originally the cables were DIG but about 30 years ago BT upgraded over 300 properties in the neighbourhood, and installed duct to the footpath for all of them. I do not know why, and the records the engineer had to day did not appear to provide any help. With my information in mind he proceeded to access several BT footpath chamber in the local area. This indicated that ducting from the premise was pretty universal and that armoured cable was used in the majority of the consumer connections. This corroborated what I had told him.
So he returned to my duct and tried to rod it again. He did forewarn me in advance that there was a risk that the cable could be damaged because of the force needed to push it through. This time he managed to get the probe through to the duct in the footpath. He then tried to probe the main duct from the nearest access point in the footpath towards my junction point but progress was halted about 1 metre short by a possible obstruction.
So the good news is that the ducting from my house to the footpath is probably serviceable and there is no need to dig on my property. However there seems to be an obstruction in the main ducting in the footpath about 1 metre short of the junction with my duct. This will require a dig in the footpath, but first another engineer will have to attend to definitely trace and mark where the copper runs. This will inevitably delay my currently planned installation date of 25 September.
The Openreach engineer was very helpful and did a thorough job today - and probably spent considerably more time on the task than was allotted.
However this begs the question about what would have happened if I had not been at home? Openreach would have been unable to gain access (despite my previous warnings) and would have had to abort the survey until such time I was present. Their procedure does not make much sense to me.
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They usually turn up to do stage 1 at a random unappointed time. It's usually before the advisory date they give for external works.
If you weren't there then the engineer would have tried to call you on the contact number they have or come back another time.
They turned up well ahead of the install date so there was plenty time for them to return if access could not be made today.
With him coming so early it gets the ball rolling early on any digging that needs done which is a nice positive.
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My order seems to have been cancelled because of the suspected blocked duct in the pavement. As my house is the first property in the road it implies OR will be unable install FTTP anywhere in the whole street until this is fixed. Surprise, surprise I cannot get any further information out of BT regarding what is happening. No dates, nothing, nada is forthcoming.
So hopes dashed and I remain on a deteriorating VDSL service.
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Maybe try firing an e-mail to clive.selley@openreach.co.uk and see if they can give any details?
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Hi
My FTTP installation journey with Openreach took a new twist today.
The story so far is that a regrade from FTTC to FTTP was ordered from BT on 4th September. An Openreach engineer turned up to conduct the initial survey on the 8th (8 days earlier than originally planned).
He detected a suspected blockage along a short length of duct in the footpath. He told me that some minor civils work was probably required to clear the blockage, and notified his office about this. I know that he actually did that as my wife turned up whilst he was standing on my drive and she actually overheard him on his mobile telling the office about the issue.
Today another OR engineer turned up apparently to carry out exactly the same inspection task (5 days later than originally planned). He was surprised when I told him about the previous visit (and the problems encountered), and he said that OR had no record of the previous visit. He satisfied himself by marking the duct run on the footpath back to the access chamber.
He told me that the planned installation date (25 September) would almost certainly be missed as the third party companies subcontracted to undertake the civils in the area were way behind with their work. With the change in the weather I could now be looking at a date later in November if I’m lucky.
Luckily I am getting a fairly good speed from my current FTTC connection so this delay is not a big deal. Its just frustrating.
However whilst the individual OR engineers have been very helpful and polite, the OR back office systems supporting them appear shambolic. Even their network records are wrong. The whole area (about 300+ premises) was upgraded from DIGG to duct about 35 years ago but the OR records do not appear to recognize that.
So will now await the next stage in the story.
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As you can imagine, our databases are many and massively huge beasts .... it isn't beyond the realms of human error that an area or two may have been missed when uploading to our main network records system (a proper old, clunky thing), which then re-writes this info onto our other various, user-friendly databases.
If you want to pop a postcode on here I can look and see, more out of curiosity as to what the records actually do show ?. If not, no bother.
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As you can imagine, our databases are many and massively huge beasts .... it isn't beyond the realms of human error that an area or two may have been missed when uploading to our main network records system (a proper old, clunky thing), which then re-writes this info onto our other various, user-friendly databases.
If you want to pop a postcode on here I can look and see, more out of curiosity as to what the records actually do show ?. If not, no bother.
Balck Sheep - Postcode is TN13 2SJ. Cabinet 32 on FTTC. In the olden days I used to work for one of the cable companies that got swallowed up by Virgin so I know all about the accuracy of the network records - or lack of it! The OR engineers seemed to have some sort of work instructions on their mobiles so I don't know if they were actually accessing the network database or just their job instructions from the back office. The one yesterday was certainly grumbling about the brevity of the information he had been given. Both of them were certainly surprised to see heavily armoured cabling to the house.
But another day, another problem. I don't know what marker paint the OR guy was using yesterday, but we had lots of rain overnight and this morning all the marks on the footpath have disappeared as if by magic!
I bet the next problem will be when the civils guys turn up (contractors called NPS?) who will refuse to dig because there are no markings to guide them.
Just as well that I'm in no hurry for the regrade, but any premise upstream of me who has put an order in for fibre is going to be in for a long wait I suspect.
They are scheduled to pull fibre tomorrow (Friday) and connect it up in my house that afternoon. Of course that is never going to happen but the appointement is still at a CONFIRMED status today.
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Hi mate .... quick reply.
Your whole estate is showing as ducted on our Geo-Hub network records, the user friendly preferred system for engineers.
Don't worry about the paint washing away, the contractors should have an A55 (drawn version) showing the route to be taken, the paint is just belt & braces.
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I don't know why you are concerned that they showed up early, I would be elated as usually when I book such a service they either don't show up or show up a few months late!
I wish you luck on the build.
All of the providers (Like Zen) show FTTC only for me but the BT checker says FTTPoD is available. Unfortunately it looks expensive so have not bothered for now.
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Well as expected no OR engineer arrived today at the appointed time despite it being confirmed weeks ago. I note on the order tracking system that the appointment has within the last hour been moved from "confirmed" to "confirmed.na". Note sure what that .na actually means, but I can guess.
As I also suspected would be the case, there has been no contact from either BT or OR today. If I had taken a day off specifically for this appointment I would not be a happy bunny.
Next stage will be to lodge a formal complaint with BT.
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The only NA I know within my 35yrs with the business .... is No Access. You do indeed need to progress this.
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The only NA I know within my 35yrs with the business .... is No Access. You do indeed need to progress this.
Thanks for the info. I was in all day so "No Access" was untrue if they are referring to access to the house - unless they mean no access because of the blockage in the duct.
After trying for ages I managed to speak to a BT person who could not tell me anything useful. Unsurprsingly she cannot tell me the status of this order or provide a revised end date. All she could do was apologise for the delay and that BT/OR will work to resolve it as soon as possible. However I was also told that as OR are not entering peoples houses due to COVID restrictions at the moment they probably would be unable to complete the order anyway. This is the same message as that appears in a bold yellow box on the online order tracking system for this order.
So it looks like this order will be held in suspeneded animation for the forseeable future.
I will raise a formal complaint anyway. It may make me feel better if nothing else.
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I wasn’t going to post again in this thread, but the saga just rolls on and illustrates how to make a job more difficult than it needs to be.
I raised a formal complaint with BT more in hope than expectation but I got a phone call back from them less than 24 hours later! So hats off to BT for a change.
The reason the order appears to be stalled is that OR seem to be telling BT I have not signed an authority for OR to dig up my garden to clear the duct. Well that’s a new one. Firstly the blocked duct is in the footpath (if the first OR survey is to be believed), and secondly I have not been asked to sign anything by anybody.
I told BT I would sign whatever OR wants after I have actually seen the authorisation document.
BT told me they would ensure OR present this to me within the next 48 hours and that BT will phone again on Thursday to check that OR have done so.
We shall see what happens next.
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This saga just rolls on.
29 September - OR emails an authorisation to dig on my property for me to sign.
29 September – I correct the errors in the description of the work in the OR document, sign it and then email it back to OR.
1 October – Member of BT Complaints Team calls to ensure OR has sent the authorisation document.
3 October – I receive a personalised letter from BT inviting me to sign up for a full fibre regrade - and if additional work is required following an OR survey an estimated installation date would be provided within 28 days of the order date. BT making promises OR cannot keep?
5 October – Member of BT Complaints team calls me. He confirms that OR have received the signed job authorisation and will now look at scheduling the work. This may be at least 14 working days from 5 October. An appointment is set for the next update call from BT.
5 October – Email received from OR confirming receipt of signed job authorisation. They also acknowledge that the marking of the route of the ducts in the footpath is no longer present. However they ignore my correction on their job description, namely that the blockage is in the footpath duct and not in the swept tee to my property. They also confirm they will not dig unless I am present – after all this palaver I just do not trust them and want to be there.
14 October – Agreed date of the next call from BT Complaints Team to check that OR have provided a date for the dig. (That would be +40 days from date of the order before even an estimated date for a dig is provided)
It’s just as well I have a working FFTC connection otherwise I would be getting a little upset by this stage! I’m now reconciled to settling in for the long term.
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Look on the bright side of things, at least you haven't paid many thousands up front for FTTPod and then been waiting for six months plus for them to slowly install it like many of the comments I've seen on Think Broadband.
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Todays update.
Without any phone call to me, or any other contact:
1. OR have issued a revised appointment date of 14 January 2021 to look at the duct in the footpath (20 weeks after the original order was raised)
2. BT have closed my complaint. Presumably because OR have issued a revised appointment date?
Couldn't make it up.
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...and 20 minutes later my complaint is miraculously become open again. (This is from MY BT).
But then I notice that the actual work to fix the duct has been scheduled by OR for New Years Day. (Prior to the installation proposed for 14 January).
Double time for Bank Holiday working anybody?
What on earth are OR and BT doing!
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The bandwagon rolls on....
Was contacted by BT to say OR promised to clear the ducts by 22 October, and that BT Complaints will contact me on 23 October to ensure the work has been completed
No show by OR and no phone call from BT at appointed time.
BT actually phone 24 October to tell me that OR have failed to meet the agreed appointment date due to "pressure of work". I knew that already.
OR have now promised ro clear the duct in the footpath by 29 October and BT will phone to confirm that the work has been on 30 October. We shall see - final installation date still showing as the New Year on the BT order.
Now coming up to 2 months delay. Just as well that I am not in a hurry.
BT have now sent a personalised mailshot to all properties in the street with the offer to upgrade to FTTP. As my house is the second property in the street and the blockage in the duct in the footpath is opposite my house they will be unable to provide FTTP service to anybody who responds to their mailshot.
Next installment soon.
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BT have now sent a personalised mailshot to all properties in the street with the offer to upgrade to FTTP. As my house is the second property in the street and the blockage in the duct in the footpath is opposite my house they will be unable to provide FTTP service to anybody who responds to their mailshot.
Then again, if more people decide to take up the offer and Openreach end up with many customers waiting for them to pull their finger out, it might ACTUALLY get done.
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And today an OR crew turned up unannounced despite OR constantly being told they have to call me beforehand. This is because the majority of the duct run through the private property is behind locked security gates.
Luckily I was in, and they parked their 3 trucks and set to work. They quickly located the blockage in the duct in the footpath, cleared it, and installed the draw ropes. From what an OR engineer let drop durng a previous visit, I suspect that this should have been done by the sub-contractors who recently enabled the adjacent local area for FTTP.
This took only about 90 minutes. The only problem seemed to be that the ducts are old and are of an obsolete size, and so no swept-tee replacement was to hand. To complete the job they had to carefully repair the old tee.
So 10 out of 10 for a crew who did a good job in double quick time. It may have been almost worth the 2 month wait.
Downside is that the final installation date remains at January 2021. However I suspect this may now be pulled back - last time I spoke to BT Complaints they were less than ecstatic with OR's performance to date and promised to apply some pressure.
BT Complaints have phoned to say they will contact me Friday with an update. Which rather begs the question - what would be the status of the order be now if it was just me chasing and BT Complaints had never become involved?
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My son is in currently in a very similar situation to "bbnovice", was very actively persued by BT, his ISP, to upgrade to FTTP from his current 80/20 VDSL-2 FTTC service, after some negotiation on terms he decided to do so and the install was scheduled for 2 weeks later.
The new modem/router arrived from BT on schedule but OR did not show on the scheduled date, no communication/reason received for the no show, when queried, BT provided a new install date just over 2 weeks later.
On new promised install date, two KN Circet tech's arrived on schedule claiming that they should be able to run the new fibre/copper through the existing duct directly from the chamber in next door neighbours garden to the existing hall socket.
Unfortunately, only got a few meters from the chamber and experienced a duct blockage, ironically this was at an area which had just been disturbed and re-tarmac'ed only the day before for a gas installation to next door neighbour !
So, stalemate now for over a month, best my son can get from BT is they are working on a solution.
The situation is probably being complicated by the fact that the likely duct damage area where the cable duct and the new gas pipe cross is in the neighbours drive and this is a rental property which is currently vacant and being refurbished for re-letting.
Having said that, BT/OR have not to date requested any permission to dig in either property.
@bbnovice:
Can you possibly advise the method you deployed to instigated the complaint to BT ?
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@bbnovice:
Can you possibly advise the method you deployed to instigated the complaint to BT ?
I registered the complaint via the online facility provided through My BT (assuming you have an account). I think this is a better route than phoning as you can then keep an exact written record of the to and fro of events as they unfold. It also shows current status and when BT will contact you next.
The BT complaints procedures seem to have become a lot slicker than when I had cause to raise a different complaint a while ago. The guys who have worked on my complaint (so far) knew their stuff, appear to be empowered to find a solution, and also seem committed to achieving a satisfactory outcome. OR are a different matter. They have consistently failed to meet dates (which they have provided) and not done what they promised. This is odd as the OR engineers (when they do arrive on site) have always seemed to know their stuff and have completed their assigned tasks in a professional manner. I suspect that OR internal processes and management may be the cause, but I must admit to speculation here.
Its been an interesting journey.
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@bbnovice:
Many thanks for the information regarding BT complaints procedure , much appreciated, will pass the details on to my son, he has been a BT BB/phone patron for close to 20 years and his current circumstances are very similar to yours.
Good luck with your FTTP installation, hopefully your install date will now be brough forward as the "blocked duct" issue has been resolved, will follow progress.
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Reading this and thinking to myself "This is insane".
I fully understand that there is a pandemic going on but, if BT want people to upgrade to FTTP they seriously need to sort out the way they communicate internally because this sounds like a big mess.
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Reading this and thinking to myself "This is insane".
I fully understand that there is a pandemic going on but, if BT want people to upgrade to FTTP they seriously need to sort out the way they communicate internally because this sounds like a big mess.
You only hear about the bad jobs on these forums ..... hundreds of thousands of jobs that go through without issue. But nobody wants to hear about them. ;)
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I'm living in a Norman Wisdom film.
This morning (Friday) 2 Openreach trucks and 4 OR engineers turned up unannounced to do the same job that was completed Monday.
They had no visibility of the work done on Monday on their systems apparently.
So they signed off their job as complete, apologised for the confusion and left.
I assure you that I'm not making any of this up. Black Sheep - let me assure you I'm not having a go at the individual OR engineers.
Next exciting installment to follow.
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LOL at the film reference .... love a bit of NW, I do !!
I'll be honest with you bb, I'm also confbabbled about what's going on with your install ?? I don't have much of a defence, other than with the sheer size of our company and the plethora of different reporting systems we have ( and actually need), then mis-information creep can, and obviously does appear.
This is in no way aimed at your goodself at all, but everybody's a football manager when their team aren't performing, the same on these forums ... if it was as easy as 'they' make it out to be, then why TF haven't the industry leaders A) thought about it and implemented it, and B) gone head-hunting Barry off Facebook for his immense insight. ;) ;D
I currently have a variety of systems in use, to try and bottom an issue out on our rural build ... CSS(routing & records platform), ORION ( FTTP survey tool), Land registry, Wayleaves register, Geo-Hub (network plant locator), Artisan (plant defect register), National Repository (all information for each individual PON being built), LUMS (project recording tool for anything at all fibre related) ..... this is just for one single query holding up a build.
Sometimes, these platforms aren't just the sole possession of OR, they may be shared or owned by a 3rd party. Point I'm labouring to make, when you're building FTTP as quick as we are ... one or two issues are part of the journey. I just wish the other hundreds of thousands, nay millions of customers, who haven't had an issue would report back so on here. Not sure Kitz would be as happy about it though. ;D ;D
If you are one of the unlucky ones, then we have our escalation procedure you can follow if you so choose .... try that with Ryanair and see how far you get, there isn't anything to escalate to .... so I do absolutely understand your frustration, I absolutely do, I'm just hoping to get across the flip-side of the issue. Not for sympathy or anything like that, just a modicum of understanding.
Then kick off again .... :lol: :lol:
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Thanks for that Black Sheep.
I have gone way past being angry or frustrated - I have a good FTTC connection so I am not desperate for FTTP. I only ordered it because BT offered it to me and I would be silly to turn down a free regrade which should give me over double the speed. And hopefully be more reliable.
I totally accept that OR completes thousands of jobs every day OK without any drama or problems. I'm only reporting on this because it seems to me (looking in from the outside) that OR process engineering appears deficient and exceptions handled by simply repeating of the same step - usually using a different engineer. When things do go wrong they can go really wrong.
In another life I was a Programme Manager responsible for the design and implementation of large scale customer facing service processes. One of the criteria I was judged on was how resilient the processes and systems were, and their ability to handle the inevitable problems when they occured. And as we all know they WILL occur.
I suspect that OR internal processes may be a many headed monster as they have probably just been added to over the years rather than being fundamentally rethought as the business evolves. Different computer systems typically begin to proliferate to deal with different products and business requirements and the issue then becomes stitching them together and the compromises that entails. I could bore on this subject for hours.
In the meantime BT Complaints were meant to phone at a pre arranged time today to check on status, but so far they have failed to do so,
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Newest update:
BT Complaints contacted me today to say:
OR accept that the external tasks have not been completed although it appears to have been signed off as such.
OR have therefore promised BT to send yet another crew before Friday 13th (auspicious date!) to complete the outstanding external work, namely pulling the fibre external to the premise.
BT will phone me on the 16th to check all OK before OR turn up to complete the order (installation inside the premise) on the appointed date of 17 November. (The current revised date - the date in January 2021 has now disappeared).
On the BT order tracker there is another task entitled work outside the premise which was completed on 4 November. Not quite sure what that could be, but I'll let that one go.
I'm almost getting excited!
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On the BT order tracker there is another task entitled work outside the premise which was completed on 4 November.
The external work is pulling fibre from the chamber to the external wall of your property.
They don't enter the property to do this and you don't need to be present.
They fit an external CSP (customer splice point) on the external of the property, where the feed will enter the property.
Some people like to be there to choose where the CSP will go.
On activation day an OpenReach engineer attends with the ONT and does the final bit of fibre from the ONT to the CSP.
Some installs still use an older deployment method where this external work isn't needed and the fibre is pulled directly from the chamber right to the ONT in a single continuous length with no CSP.
My install was the older, no CSP method.
For my install the external work involved OpenReach pulling the fibre through my duct and leaving a large coil of fibre where it appeared from the duct at my external wall.
The internal work on install day was pulling it through in to the house and connecting the ONT.
With the older method sometimes a single engineer does both bits at once on his own.
Do you know if you are having a CSP fitted?
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I'm pretty sure he said that they'd need access through locked gates to fit the CSP.
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Ah.
Reading the post again i see...
OR accept that the external tasks have not been completed although it appears to have been signed off as such.
OR have therefore promised BT to send yet another crew before Friday 13th (auspicious date!) to complete the outstanding external work, namely pulling the fibre external to the premise.
and
On the BT order tracker there is another task entitled work outside the premise which was completed on 4 November. Not quite sure what that could be, but I'll let that one go.
These are the same thing.
The "work outside the premises" that's marked as complete is the external work that you mention before it, the pulling the fibre to the external of the property.
As you say they have already accepted this work isn't complete then all should be ok.
Just double check with BT that you will be contacted when this work is being done.
It is often completed without contacting the home owner as it is all external but clearly that can't happen with a locked gate.
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Just double check with BT that you will be contacted when this work is being done.
It is often completed without contacting the home owner as it is all external but clearly that can't happen with a locked gate.
BT are aware that access is via locked security gates and OR have been told this several times by BT and my contact details passed over to them. I have also personally amended authorisations sent directly to me by OR (eg for digging on customer property to clear the duct) pointing out the access issue and that they needed to advise me when they plan to arrive. Despite that I have never ever been contacted in advance by OR. Luckily I'm retired so have always been around when they have arrived unexpectedly otherwise this thread would be even longer!
In discussion with the BT guy this morning he said he had never encountered such an error strewn order before which seems to have broken down at every step.
With a bit of luck this will all be fixed by next Tuesday lunch time and I will be able to report success! But Lord knows how much this "free" FTTP regrade has cost BT and/or OR.
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When I had Virgin installed I had asked them to get the first engineer doing the external install to phone, they assured me this would happen, I knew it almost certainly wouldn't. So I printed off a diagram of where I'd already prepared a trench and wanted the CS, explained the situation and put my phone number on there. The engineer arrived, screwed the box to the front of the porch then opened the Toby and found my piece of paper, luckily he did phone me and waited the 20 minutes whilst I drove home. He was actually very pleased as my preparation had made the job easy, and now my connection point is on the side of the house the other side of the hedge and locked gate. We also got lucky when the workmen installed the Toby, originally it was marked out the wrong side of the front path, but my wife spotted them and managed to get them to put it the other side of the path.
I've got this to all go through again when FTTP is installed, as ours is not overhead either, whats the chances of managing to get that where I need it :fingers:
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There does seem to be something wrong with the way OR engineers get hold of or use/don’t use end user contact details. My ISP has correct contact details for my wife including her mobile number and instructions to only call that. My four DSL lines have no telephone service, not just no phones connected, so there’s absolutely no point phoning those numbers, yet OR engineers keep on calling these useless numbers to let us know they’re coming. They just either always call the line they’re working on, which is daft, or else somehow the correct contact details aren’t propagating through to them. So either limited thinking or lack of joined-upness. No reason to suggest that it’s the OR engineers’ fault.
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For info .... there is no 'thinking' necessary when an engineer picks up a task on his mobile phone.
The EU information that the ISP has provided, is in very simple format ... ie: name, address, contact number (usually the faulty tel. number being reported), secondary contact number if different from the reported number (as in a mobile or a neighbours etc), any security passwords to gain access, etc etc ..... it is the ISP that provide this info, not OR.
OR are responsible for the other information such as previous visits (Repeat reports), early life failures, routing from Exchange to premises, estimated completion times, etc etc ....
I lost count many years ago, of the number of times the EU has explicitly requested they be contacted on a specific number, only for the ISP call handler to miss the info off when building the task.
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Is this ALL the information an ISP is able to pass on, as that would explain a lot.
When my E-side got accidentally routed to someone else and my D side left flapping in the breeze, it took far longer than it should have as while my ISP knew what had happened (they tried calling my number and got someone else), this was never passed on to the engineers who were sent.
It only got resolved when they eventually sent a voice engineer with no information at all so he actually came to the house, when all of this could have been solved on the first visit had the ISP notes been passed on. In my case it was even more tragic as the CEO of Origin Broadband was chasing this up himself, to no avail.
Granted, I think the automated systems to pass information have changed a lot since then, but its distressing to hear the same mistakes being made despite that. Sure there will be cases where an ISP do not pass the information on correctly, but past experience suggests there are also cases where they do and its not passed on to the engineers.
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@Black_Sheep Understood. As I said, I didn’t have any assumptions. Since however my ISP A&A has no DSL lines with any telephone service, every one being internet-only, I will be surprised if they are filling in the to-be-worked-on line phone number instead of the contact number they have on record for me. I just checked that they have the right contact details recorded for each of my lines. I’ll email them about it.
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I asked AA about this and they swear that they are doing the right thing, and I have checked that their contact details for me are correct and can see that they’re recorded properly at their end. So who knows. At AA’s end I would hope that there’s not too much manual error-prone human intervention required in copying details from the user’s account (per-line details, that is) and just hitting a button to create a new callout visit request. But I have no idea exactly how it works.
Apologies to the OP for veering off-topic.
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Hopefully this will be my final report on the tale of the FTTP upgrade that seemed to go wrong at every opportunity.
Today I have a working 150/30 FTTP connection! The order was originally placed on 4 September, and has been the subject of a formal complaint made to BT on 25 September.
The latest situation was that OR promised BT they would pull the fibre by 13 November at the very latest, and complete the installation inside the premise on 17 November.
OR were a no show on the 13th so I was expecting another round of shadow boxing with BT if the OR engineer arrived today and found that the fibre had not been pulled and then left. (This was meant to be a 2 stage install).
This morning a lone OR engineer arrived at 8 am sharp. He told me had chosen my job first as it had a big red mark next to it - so he was expecting trouble! I explained the situation about the fibre but he went off to make an inspection of the duct runs and connection points to see if he could pull the fibre himself.
When he came back he reported that he thought that it might be possible to pull the cable himself despite the length of the run and that it there are quite a few bends in it. However he did find that the physical line identifiers at the connection point did not make sense and belonged to lines already active in the network a fair distance away geographically. Also there are 15 houses in the street but only a maximum of 8 ports are available at the connection point. I am the first FTTP installation in the street so this was all a bit of a worry and it looks like OR may have discussions with the sub-contractors who actually deployed the network. Once the physical line ids had been correctly identified he then managed to pull the fibre through the duct unaided.
The rest of the installation then went smoothly but was a bit different from what I had expected. A grey box was positioned immediately above the end of the duct next to the house, and both the fibre and the copper cable were run into it. From that box the new fibre cable run was tacked to the wall and follows the copper cable, and thence straight through the wall and into the house. The odd thing is that the external fibre cable is black but where it emerges through the wall inside the house it is white. How does that happen?
Finally the fibre was lit and a connection quickly established. The BT order was for a 150/30Mbs service, and 143/30Mbs was actually achieved from the off.
So I am now happy despite this upgrade taking nearly 3 months to complete. I reviewed the OR visits and counted that 10 OR engineers have visited the site at one time or another, plus the mystery phantom engineer(s) who allegedly pulled the fibre in early November and reported the job as being complete! I'm pleased to report that the OR engineer today knew what he was doing, stuck with it and completed the job although I think it took a lot more time (over 3 hours) than he had anticipated.
BT Complaints phoned later to see if I was satisfied. I was told that the history of this complaint will be retained by BT for future training purposes!
I'm sure most installations will go smoothly but my expereince illustrates that when it it does go wrong, it can go wrong big time.
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That’s probably the limitation of TCP showing in the reduced figure; 2.67% of the throughput is overhead because of IPv4+TCP headers (worse if IPv6) anyway. Might get the full speed with multiple TCP streams running in parallel. Timestamps add yet more overhead but might speed things up.
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The odd thing is that the external fibre cable is black but where it emerges through the wall inside the house it is white. How does that happen?
The black outer sheath peels off to leave a white cable for internal sections. It peels very easily on the newer cables.
My engineer left me a small length.
https://ibb.co/hdFt3LL
He did it so quick you didn't notice ::)
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Delighted to hear that your FTTP installation is finally complete, top marks for perseverance on your part, enjoy
I posted earlier in this thread as my son had virtually identical circumstances to yours with his FTTP installation by OR and is also with BT, ironically, he also had his third attempt at installation today, unfortunately, not so lucky.
After the reported blocked duct arising from his second OR/KN Circet visit, this had never been addressed so it was no surprise that the KN Circet engineer who arrived this morning had not been advised of the blockage could not run the fibre !
He stated that KN would not get paid for the installatiuon unless completed and advised that he would try to get the "digging crew" to attend.
"Heavy" crew did turn up this afternoon and promptly located the smashed duct exactly where expected, neighbours drive at the crossing point of the very recently install gas main, luckily, this property is rental and vacant, currently being re-furbished for further rental.
Was quite surprised that they were prepared to dig without formal permission, they advised that as the estate does not have foot paths they are entitled to dig within a meter of property/road boundries which was the case.
Current status, big hole, exposed, smashed cable duct, crew hope to return tomorrow to repair.
Still on FTTP but at least some movement at long last.
Edit: Typo correction.
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The black outer sheath peels off to leave a white cable for internal sections. It peels very easily on the newer cables.
My engineer left me a small length.
https://ibb.co/hdFt3LL
He did it so quick you didn't notice ::)
Ah, that explains that mystery. Thanks