Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTP Rollout => Topic started by: ChemistDude on July 12, 2020, 01:49:26 AM
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[Moderator note. This topic has been created by splitting off the following posts from CarlT's "After a week on a gigabit" (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24580.msg413291.html#msg413291) thread.]
I have the following for you:
Speedtest.net hosts that can handle a gigabit in my experience don't exist.
The Think Broadband speedtest doesn't come close to handling a gigabit. Presumably all the other BT customers with a gigabit have overwhelmed it.
Fast.com is about the only thing that comes close.
The main cool thing about having a gigabit is that you basically can't max it out downstream.
It's not transformative. I'm not even touching the sides of the capacity. It's a good to have but really no difference noticed from 300 Mbit apart from running speed tests just now.
BT Wholesale and Openreach have nailed it in Wakefield: hasn't skipped a beat.
How did you manage to get FTTP in Wakefield? I’m in one of the 2018 new build developments in WF1 by Paragon Business Park and Openreach said there are no plans for our area.
Cheers
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He's on a new build estate, so FTTP was installed as part of building the estate.
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https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#10/53.6566/-1.4128/geafttp/
Plenty FTTP in Wakefield. As seen on the map above.
I advised you on ThinkBroadband that OpenReach are very likely to come back to your new build and add Fibre.
Carl picked an estate that definitely had it from scratch so no waiting around.
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How did you manage to get FTTP in Wakefield? I’m in one of the 2018 new build developments in WF1 by Paragon Business Park and Openreach said there are no plans for our area.
Cheers
Having a closer look Paragon Business Park has 2 small FTTP deployments surrounding it.
Have you ever your details on OpenReach.com and looked at what their online checker says for your address?
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Having a closer look Paragon Business Park has 2 small FTTP deployments surrounding it.
Have you ever your details on OpenReach.com and looked at what their online checker says for your address?
Hi j0hn. For one of the streets in my development post code: WF1 2FP (and my own), the Openreach fibre check just states FTTC is available. Using the BT checker it states FTTC and FTTPoD available.
Openreach said this when I contacted them:
I have checked and I cannot see any plans in this area to supply Fibre to the Premise (FTTP) in your area. I can see you already have FTTC on your line so you could consider our Community Fibre Partnership scheme. We can’t always guarantee this will be feasible but we would be willing to look at it if you are interested. To find out more please visit our website
https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/community-...
Not sure how to proceed from here. Provisionally I’ve applied for a quote from Cereberus. It seems Wakefield is not included in any voucher schemes etc either. Please could you give me your opinion on the best way to proceed to get FTTP in my area? Would more expressions of interest with Openreach help? Does the fact those other developments close by have it mean that it could be a lower cost to have FTTPoD installed? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.
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The fact other areas have it near by doesn't affect the cost of FTTPoD.
They still need to build it from the nearest Aggregation Node to your property.
If having OpenReach FTTP is worth (very roughly) between £5-10k build charge and a year at over £100 a month then you may wish to pursue FTTPoD.
You'll need to pay the £250 survey fee before getting the actual costs though.
Getting more expressions of interest doesn't achieve much.
In my opinion you're best just waiting.
OpenReach are retro fitting FTTP to new build properties (built in the past 20 or so years) on quite a large scale.
As the existing ducting that brings your copper line is fairly new it is usually clear of blockages and fairly cheap and easy for them to pull the fibre through.
My development was built 8 years ago and OpenReach came along a couple months ago and installed FTTP.
They are doing the majority of new builds around me and across the country.
Your development is easy pickings and is much more likely to be covered before a Wakefield wide rollout.
I can't remember the last time I seen an FTTPoD quote under £5k.
See what your Cerberus quote comes out at and make your decision from there.
Only you can device if FTTP is worth that much to you.
Personally I know I would be gutted (understatement) if I dropped that much cash and OpenReach came along shortly after and did all the surrounding new builds.
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Check the OpenReach site again with your postcode.
Scroll down.
Faster and more reliable fibre is coming to your area soon. Full Fibre is our fastest technology, but your exact speed will depend on which broadband provider and package you choose. Sign up for news and updates.
That's the postcode you gave above. Looks like all the surrounding streets also have FTTP coming.
Enjoy if that covers you.;)
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Just in case ChemistDude is not sure which checker.
https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband
And there's a map here, although there's nothing currently showing for Wakefield- note it only shows Fibre First area's.
https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fibre-first
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How did you manage to get FTTP in Wakefield? I’m in one of the 2018 new build developments in WF1 by Paragon Business Park and Openreach said there are no plans for our area.
Cheers
New build. Yours appears to be on the retro new sites list though - Openreach taking developments built relatively recently, so with the right ducts in the ground, and deploying FTTP. It's relatively cheap and relatively quick.
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The fact other areas have it near by doesn't affect the cost of FTTPoD.
They still need to build it from the nearest Aggregation Node to your property.
If having OpenReach FTTP is worth (very roughly) between £5-10k build charge and a year at over £100 a month then you may wish to pursue FTTPoD.
You'll need to pay the £250 survey fee before getting the actual costs though.
Getting more expressions of interest doesn't achieve much.
In my opinion you're best just waiting.
OpenReach are retro fitting FTTP to new build properties (built in the past 20 or so years) on quite a large scale.
As the existing ducting that brings your copper line is fairly new it is usually clear of blockages and fairly cheap and easy for them to pull the fibre through.
My development was built 8 years ago and OpenReach came along a couple months ago and installed FTTP.
They are doing the majority of new builds around me and across the country.
Your development is easy pickings and is much more likely to be covered before a Wakefield wide rollout.
I can't remember the last time I seen an FTTPoD quote under £5k.
See what your Cerberus quote comes out at and make your decision from there.
Only you can device if FTTP is worth that much to you.
Personally I know I would be gutted (understatement) if I dropped that much cash and OpenReach came along shortly after and did all the surrounding new builds.
Thank you very much for your feedback. This is very helpful indeed. Much appreciated.
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Check the OpenReach site again with your postcode.
Scroll down.
That's the postcode you gave above. Looks like all the surrounding streets also have FTTP coming.
Enjoy if that covers you.;)
Thank you J0hn.
This is whats happening to our development:
WF1 2FU (Ruby Court) - NO PLANS FOR FTTP
WF1 2FQ (Stockbridge Way) - NO PLANS FOR FTTP
WF1 2FW (Prince Albert Court) - NO PLANS FOR FTTP
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WF1 2FP (Prince Albert Road) - FTTP coming soon
WF1 2FR (Ruby Street) - FTTP coming soon
WF1 2FS (Reeds Way) - FTTP coming soon
WF1 2FT (Timperley Close) - FTTP coming soon
WF1 2FX (Red Hall Avenue) - FTTP coming soon
WF1 2DF (Red Hall Crescent) - FTTP coming soon
Site plan, Red lines are not getting FTTP, blue lines are getting FTTP:
(https://i.imgur.com/ehaCOd6l.jpg)
Looks like my specific post code is not covered but that is strange that the vast majority of the development seems to be getting it! Why would they miss off areas when we are literally adjacent to a future FTTP road?!? I've sent another ticket to OpenReach in the meantime.
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Just in case ChemistDude is not sure which checker.
https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband
And there's a map here, although there's nothing currently showing for Wakefield- note it only shows Fibre First area's.
https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fibre-first
Thanks Ronski, that is the one I was using but very kind of you to check.
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New build. Yours appears to be on the retro new sites list though - Openreach taking developments built relatively recently, so with the right ducts in the ground, and deploying FTTP. It's relatively cheap and relatively quick.
Hi Carl, Is the retro new sites list available online or is that insider knowledge? Cheers.
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So it turns out the my street and 2 others are not part of the project that is providing FTTP to the rest of the 9 street development. Apparently there wasn't enough budget in the original project to cover all the premises in the area.
Now, the promising news is that as a result of me and a few others contacting them, they are going to undertake a review of the original project and see if they can add my street and another to the original plans. The Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complants chap I'm in contact with has been quite helpful actually. He can't make guarantees but reckons
getting my street added is likely to be successful. Find out more in 2 weeks once the review has been done.
As it happens, an Openreach subcontractor checked all the BT boxes/ducts last week and they're all clear so that should hopefully be a positive too.
Will keep you all posted.
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Indeed, I've found the Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complaints Team are very proactive.
I was really surprised when they explained exactly why my area was delayed and gave an idea of when they hope to resume it.
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Looking at what councils have publically declared spending their grants on paints an interesting picture.
One city similar sized to Leicester has quoted they spending 17million to ensure gigabit broadband for residents. Leicester got a 20 million grant and no mention of FTTP anywhere on its document.
So this perhaps gives an idea of local costs, whether these are complete costs or just subsidies paid to FTTP provider remains to be seen but it is interesting to read those files.
Seems you got a proper home internet setup now Carl, happy for you.
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On Wednesday we had some Openreach workers onsite doing final checks on the ducts:
(https://i.imgur.com/DJTmPULl.jpg)
I went over for a chat and they said that the plans have been updated to include all streets in the development and that this is now a "high escalation" project with works commencing in 2-3 weeks. I don't want to get my hopes up too much so I've emailed my Openreach contact in the Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complants team for an update as that review should have taken place by now. Hopefully getting a response early this week.
I had also contacted West Yorkshire Combined Authority (Superfast West Yorkshire) and they have also been in contact with Openreach to request that all streets be covered. The chap I had been in contact with called me to say that Openreach have decided it is a no brainer to cover my street. Again I'll wait for official confirmation from my Openreach contact before getting too excited.
I for one will be absolutely amazed if it is the case that I have managed to get Openreach to both include my street and simultaneously ultra fast track the fibre roll out. Lets see what happens in the coming few weeks!!!
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Makes sense for them to get it done at the same time as the rest of the properties so all good.
Glad to see Wakefield getting more FTTP love.
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So something strange happened today. Lots of Openreach vans showed up!
(https://i.imgur.com/4d0jKvRl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nWpKHhQl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/H6XdJ1nl.jpg)
It seems they've laid fibre in my street! I spoke to one of the installers I spoke to last week when they were checking the ducts. He advised that it would be all connected up to the aggregation node in 3 days and that I should be able to order FTTP in a few weeks time.
I called my contact in Openreach and he advised it would be best to take what the workers on site say with a pinch of salt and to wait till he's heard back from the delivery manager. Still waiting for official confirmation but you can't argue with the fact that they have actually laid the fibre cable today! Lets see what the next few days brings.
HIGH ESCALATION INDEED!!!
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Excellent.
Looking at that place an absolute no brainer, too. I would suspect leaving you out was an oversight and you've been mixed into the rest of the build.
If you wouldn't mind: don't use too much bandwidth or use TalkTalk or Sky. All the rest from the Wakefield exchange belongs to me - thank you!
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Excellent.
Looking at that place an absolute no brainer, too. I would suspect leaving you out was an oversight and you've been mixed into the rest of the build.
If you wouldn't mind: don't use too much bandwidth or use TalkTalk or Sky. All the rest from the Wakefield exchange belongs to me - thank you!
Thanks! And yeah, when the time comes I’ll set myself a bandwidth cap shall I ;D
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They were back again today.
(https://i.imgur.com/KVYDOcXl.jpg)
I spoke to one of the installers and was told that I'd spoken to the right person to get this all sorted because they've been told to get this all done as quickly as possible. Suggesting now that this will all be connected by the end of the week and ready for us to order next week.
I asked why the fibre checker still says that there are "No Plans". He said they won't update that till he's done his report after he's installed it all and got it connected. Whatever the case, its clear that Openreach operates as multiple silo's that don't talk to each other.
Anxious to get my order in. Don't know how those who've waited 12-18 months + for FTTPoD have the patience!
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Excellent.
Looking at that place an absolute no brainer, too. I would suspect leaving you out was an oversight and you've been mixed into the rest of the build.
If you wouldn't mind: don't use too much bandwidth or use TalkTalk or Sky. All the rest from the Wakefield exchange belongs to me - thank you!
That brings an interesting question, how much bandwidth is there where all the PONs connect back up? Is it likely to just be 10Gbit?
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Anxious to get my order in. Don't know how those who've waited 12-18 months + for FTTPoD have the patience!
True, having paid the money it must be awful.
Although I'm finding it pretty hard myself when my exchange was supposed to be done by now and its been delayed to "start" in 2022 due to power problems at the exchange.
I mean seriously, surely it doesn't take two years to overhaul the power at an exchange? I'm really hoping they quoted the worst-case scenario and things start much sooner.
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That brings an interesting question, how much bandwidth is there where all the PONs connect back up? Is it likely to just be 10Gbit?
No. It's a Huawei MA5600T that feeds the Wakefield PONs alongside some cabinets. In the case of BT Wholesale there are 2 x Nokia 7750 SRs in the exchange, both of which will be 3.2 Tbit/s chassis if they aren't already. The MA5600T has a 1.92 Tbit/s switching capacity.
BT Wholesale have at least 2 x 10 Gbit links, one to each SR, to that OLT. TalkTalk have a 10 G out of the back of the Huawei, Sky I would assume do, Vodafone no idea.
They have as much bandwidth as is needed, and Cablelinks are cheap. The only issue that might arise is where certain providers have equipment with only two 10 Gbit/s links - which assuming you need one in from other exchanges and one out to core leaves only gigabit ports for Cablelinks.
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Still no FTTP yet but the Openreach fibre checker finally says this for my post code:
(https://i.imgur.com/e8Qg2p3.png)
Here's hoping not long now
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Openreach have a very different definition of the word "soon" than I do.
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Yes they certainly do ;D
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I've had this notification since March 2017 and still waiting. :no:
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Soon is better than nothing right ;)
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I'm still on "We don’t have plans to upgrade your area yet." :(
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How soon will Fulham and Parsons Green get FTTP? Within a year perhaps?
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I'm still on "We don’t have plans to upgrade your area yet." :(
Have they told you the build dates though?
My ticket with the Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complaints Team has been closed off approx 2 months since I made the original enquiry. Looking at Jan-March 2021 at the latest, hopefully much sooner fingers crossed.
(https://i.imgur.com/CP4SxrEl.png)
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This is my playbook:
1) Get the vast majority of neighbours in the area who would miss out on the project to register their interest for FTTP https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband (https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband)
2) Get as many as you can to open a ticket here https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband-availability-customer (https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband-availability-customer) asking why they have excluded you from the plans (This is lower level)
3) Contact your areas equivalent to what for me is called Superfast West Yorkshire (now called West Yorkshire Combined Authority for Broadband). I got in touch with the Programme Manager for Broadband and essentially copied in a similar email to as in step 4 below. He contacted openreach multiple times and responded saying that its all about cost and that this is now being reviewed.
4) Send a polite email to Clive Selley (Openreach CEO) and explain the full situation giving every detail (I sent a site plan with both the roads getting and not getting FTTP highlighted in different colours). Create a template of this email for your other neighbours to use too and get them all to email individually. He will likely ask the Infrastructure Solutions Executive Level Complaints Team to handle the complaint. In my case they were able to advise that it was all to do with there not being enough budget in the original project to cover all areas and that the original project was to commence in early 2021. Throughout the course of several ping pong emails over several weeks, they eventually got the Delivery Manager for the area to do a review and they subsequently decided to include all the streets that were previously excluded.
Throughout the whole situation, my modus operandi was to be polite in every email I sent. I can't speak for the rest of my neighbours though. I'm thinking having a bunch of emails sent to them like missiles possibly helped but I could be wrong. Either way, IMO Openreach operates as a bunch of silo's that don't talk to each other and communication between various departments is very poor.
Anyway, hope the above helps others struggling to get FTTP in one way or another. Keeping my fingers crossed for a go live on the fibre checkers in the coming months then I can get my order in. One way or another, I will have my 900Mbit!! :cool:
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More vans on site today. I thought everything had been laid and checked weeks ago?! Anyway they claimed that they were checking everything again. Couldn't confirm when it would all be connected up at the aggregation node but that work stacks are constantly reviewed.
Not getting my hopes up.
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After 3 months of waiting, I finally saw this last night:
(https://i.imgur.com/4RaYo9Gl.jpg)
900Mb with BT Halo 2 being installed Wednesday!!!!
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This makes me happy. I hope to see Wakefield have a larger rollout in time, however it has to start somewhere.
Quite appropriate this is happening next to Team 17's development studio.
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Openreach engineer came this afternoon to wire up to the house ready for ONT installation next Wednesday.
(https://i.imgur.com/UQX5NM1l.png)
They installed a bigger customer service point.
(https://i.imgur.com/F9hIv9Ml.jpg)
At least 2 of my neighbours are still in contract with a non-BT ISP so they may have to wait till they are out of contract before upgrading to FTTP.
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Sky and Talktalk are now selling FTTP, as are EE.
There's also dozens of smaller ISP's.
BT is far from the only option.
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They installed a bigger customer service point.
Originally you had a BT66, which is only usable for crimped connections in a metallic pathway. You now have the latest (external) customer splice point (CSP) fitted. That CSP is capable of holding both fibre splices and crimped metallic pathways. It looks as if it was a very neat installation.
Has all the internal work now been completed? I.e. Has the optical network terminal (ONT) been fitted and the optical fibre run out from the ONT to the CSP?
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Has all the internal work now been completed? I.e. Has the optical network terminal (ONT) been fitted and the optical fibre run out from the ONT to the CSP?
Openreach engineer came this afternoon to wire up to the house ready for ONT installation next Wednesday.
;)
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. . . to wire up to the house . . .
;)
b*cat took in the information up to (and including) the above six words . . .
Does the phrase "wire up" include installing an optical fibre? Maybe . . . :angel:
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By what he's written I would say it's a standard two part install, so external work which has been done, and then next Wednesday the installation of the internal fibre and ONT.
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Looking at the images, once again, it does appear to be just as you have described.
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By what he's written I would say it's a standard two part install, so external work which has been done, and then next Wednesday the installation of the internal fibre and ONT.
Correct! Will be back here tomorrow to update after they’ve installed ONT and Smart Hub 2
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The newer ONTs (both Nokia and Huawei) are tiny, not much bigger than the master socket.
You'll probably get a Huawei ONT going by Carls install on the same exchange, unless there's a shiny new Nokia Head-End just built.
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The newer ONTs (both Nokia and Huawei) are tiny, not much bigger than the master socket.
You'll probably get a Huawei ONT going by Carls install on the same exchange, unless there's a shiny new Nokia Head-End just built.
Not sure which one I have j0hn, please let me know!
The install went ahead fine yesterday. I didn't post because I wasn't getting the speeds I wanted but all appears to be working fine now.
(https://i.imgur.com/NneLSEal.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vTFuxTKl.jpg)
Looks fairly neat still.
Not happy with the Wi-Fi speeds from this at all. Even when stood next to it, speeds are shocking!
(https://i.imgur.com/rDA6Ftzl.jpg)
ONT install looks neat. Would have preferred it over the BT telephone socket but for whatever reason couldn't be done:
(https://i.imgur.com/oWjyL3Zl.jpg)
And finally, the obligatory speedtest :cool:
(https://i.imgur.com/3JNhprfl.jpg)
Boom!
The above speed is from my desktop pc via ethernet. For whatever reason, my work laptop doesn't seem to be able to exceed 700Mb on a speed test, may have to look and see if there's a driver issue and or change the network cable.
The download yesterday once they left was 300-400Mb but when I called BT, they advised that on day one, the speed is gradually cranked up automatically every hour till it reaches 900Mb. Also, yesterday the upload seemed to be locked at 50Mb. Quick call to BT today and they suggested a router reset which resolved the issue and now getting around 100Mb.
I'm delighted with the result! Now need to look into Wi-Fi 6 mesh routers......or dare I say a Unify Dream Machine Pro and some AP's. I like the idea of seperate SSID's and VPN's for different gear. Maybe some of you have recommendations?
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It looks like a Huawei ONT, to me. Unfortunately, when I downloaded a copy of the image, it wasn't in high resolution . . . so I can't be absolutely sure.
j0hn / CarlT -- What's your opinion, please?
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Looks like the new Huawei "mini" ONT.
Same size as the Nokia ONT but the Nokia appears to have a curve moulded into the front casing, missing on the install here.
A new build with wired Ethernet! Looks a nice setup.
Edit: the power, Ethernet and optical ports are in the same positions in both models, but on the 4 LEDs the Power and LAN/Port lights are on opposite sides.
Here's the data sheet (https://wdcnet-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Nokia_7368_ISAM_ONU_G-010G-Q_Data_Sheet_EN-Fabiana-Guedes-WdcNet.pdf) for the Nokia ONT. The images are of the exact same ONT only in a very non OpenReach matte black.
I don't have a clue what the model number of the new Huawei ONT is. I'm sure it will be written on the rear of the device.
[Moderator edited to rotate the second image by 90 degrees clockwise and to rename both images.]
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Wakefield's FTTP is via a Huawei OLT. No need for any Nokia kit for the foreseeable. Wakefield started off ECI however Huawei was installed for BDUK and that same OLT is carrying this post.
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j0hn / CarlT -- Thank you, both.
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The good chemist there is using the same Cablelink, MSE, etc, I am to send this in fact.
Both very fortunate: Wakefield's coverage is minimal for right now. One of the neglected cities.