Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: foxtrot_yankee on September 02, 2020, 01:03:15 PM
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Hello, new poster but I've lurked occasionally over the years. Looking for opinions on what's going on with my line.
Bit of background: I live in a block of flats. My line has never been great, never the fastest anyway. For years, I've just accepted this but I'm getting more into it now that I'm working from home and play games online. The BT Broadband Checker shows the neighbouring flats get around 67/20 sync. The block of 8 flats I am in all get closer to 40/10 at best. Same street, same cabinet. The flats with the better sync according to the checker are actually further away from the cab than me. My upstream line attenuation is 16.2db so it's not a long line.
Recently, I found I have been on an interleaved line for a very long time, and it has been adding 16ms delay at least (and still is). Therefore, I got in touch with Vodafone to a) confirm if I'm on speed/standard/stable profile b) if I can have a DLM reset. They initially said the line looked faulty and would send an Openreach engineer out yesterday. I was then told no such appointment was made and haven't heard from them since. I'm now due to move to BT on Sep 15.
However, yesterday lunchtime my line bounced itself 4 times.
This is from Tuesday:
(https://i.imgur.com/lohiIQn.png)
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 10461 Kbps, Downstream rate = 44680 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 10204 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35590 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.1 6.2
Attn(dB): 21.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 11.5 6.9
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 26
B: 47 238
M: 1 1
T: 64 33
R: 14 16
S: 0.0429 0.7451
L: 11560 2738
D: 1511 1
I: 62 255
N: 62 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 57835905 12969619
OHFErr: 46 38
RS: 1920998699 855847751
RSCorr: 2543348 270
RSUnCorr: 1954 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 441 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2322365712 0
Data Cells: 623761471 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 63 1462
SES: 31 0
UAS: 127 2511
AS: 159436
Bearer 0
INP: 7.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 16 0
PER: 2.75 12.34
OR: 69.64 20.74
AgR: 35659.41 10224.87
Bitswap: 1750/1834 147/147
Total time = 2 days 23 hours 51 sec
FEC: 17981812 414
CRC: 650 69
ES: 63 1462
SES: 31 0
UAS: 127 2511
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 4 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 1
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 51 sec
FEC: 846 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 16078 1
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FastRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
FailedFastRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 51 sec
FEC: 1300835 154
CRC: 16 16
ES: 2 14
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 7894094 130
CRC: 591 23
ES: 55 736
SES: 31 0
UAS: 45 1248
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 4 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 1
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Since Link time = 1 days 20 hours 17 min 15 sec
FEC: 2543348 270
CRC: 46 38
ES: 5 749
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 1218
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
ZySH>
This is yesterday lunchtime when the retraining occurred:
(https://i.imgur.com/mFqk9LW.png)
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 9939 Kbps, Downstream rate = 32517 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 9734 Kbps, Downstream rate = 27166 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 5.4 6.2
Attn(dB): 21.1 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 11.4 6.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 25
B: 47 238
M: 1 1
T: 64 63
R: 14 16
S: 0.0562 0.7810
L: 8824 2612
D: 1153 1
I: 62 255
N: 62 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 1059661 311126
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 271203701 19598573
RSCorr: 3946 4
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 199933702 0
Data Cells: 5419336 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 1064 4560
SES: 1017 2
UAS: 1218 7865
AS: 3828
Bearer 0
INP: 7.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 16 0
PER: 3.61 12.34
OR: 53.16 20.08
AgR: 27219.60 9754.33
Bitswap: 99/104 1/1
Total time = 3 days 23 hours 48 sec
FEC: 21885290 744
CRC: 916 89
ES: 1064 4560
SES: 1017 2
UAS: 1218 7865
LOS: 5 0
LOF: 19 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 5
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 48 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 827 1
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FastRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
FailedFastRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 48 sec
FEC: 3838896 326
CRC: 266 18
ES: 1001 3096
SES: 986 2
UAS: 1091 5354
LOS: 4 0
LOF: 15 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 4
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 1365417 158
CRC: 16 18
ES: 2 16
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Since Link time = 1 hours 3 min 47 sec
FEC: 3946 4
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 778
SES: 0 2
UAS: 0 1363
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
ZySH>
Then there was a retrain at around 2am last night, and today I'm at 25/10:
(https://i.imgur.com/Db7kEWW.png)
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 10449 Kbps, Downstream rate = 43928 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 10342 Kbps, Downstream rate = 24997 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 12.1 6.1
Attn(dB): 20.9 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 11.3 6.9
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 22 26
B: 47 238
M: 1 1
T: 64 33
R: 16 16
S: 0.0611 0.7351
L: 8384 2775
D: 1061 1
I: 64 255
N: 64 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 9057091 2929783
OHFErr: 0 9
RS: 2318551151 193346315
RSCorr: 28511 44
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1708306699 0
Data Cells: 20179349 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 1078 5399
SES: 1028 18
UAS: 1257 9290
AS: 35537
Bearer 0
INP: 8.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 16 0
PER: 3.92 12.17
OR: 57.08 21.02
AgR: 25054.13 10363.04
Bitswap: 80/84 6/6
Total time = 4 days 21 hours 46 sec
FEC: 21996425 2292
CRC: 993 117
ES: 1078 5399
SES: 1028 18
UAS: 1257 9290
LOS: 6 0
LOF: 20 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 6
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 46 sec
FEC: 446 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 314 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FastRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
FailedFastRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 46 sec
FEC: 107487 1548
CRC: 77 28
ES: 14 839
SES: 11 16
UAS: 39 1425
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 1 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 1
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 3842544 326
CRC: 266 18
ES: 1001 3096
SES: 986 2
UAS: 1091 5354
LOS: 4 0
LOF: 15 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 4
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Since Link time = 9 hours 52 min 15 sec
FEC: 28511 44
CRC: 0 9
ES: 0 813
SES: 0 9
UAS: 0 1396
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
ZySH>
Was this an engineer at work after all, and DLM has put me down to 25/10? I see I'm still interleaved as well, which I hope will go away.
My live stats are here (http://fy.ddns.net:55555/combined.html) if anyone is interested.
Thanks!
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Your line has been banded/capped by DLM due to all the resyncs.
This will go when you switch to BT.
My upstream line attenuation is 16.2db so it's not a long line.
Where are you pulling that info?
Your line attenuation is 21dB which suggests a 800m+ long line.
35Mb is not too bad for the attenuation.
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Your line has been banded/capped by DLM due to all the resyncs.
This will go when you switch to BT.
Where are you pulling that info?
Your line attenuation is 21dB which suggests a 800m+ long line.
35Mb is not too bad for the attenuation.
There's another command which shows it.
xdslctl info --webstats
============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 11 hours: 48 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 10.363 Mbps 25.054 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 10.342 Mbps 24.997 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.0 dB 12.2 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 16 ms
Transmit Power: 6.9 dBm 11.3 dBm
Receive Power: -9.2 dBm -11.7 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 8.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 16.2 dB 23.2 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 9.997 Mbps 44.032 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 6.6 33.7 52.3 N/A 15.5 42.1 65.8
Signal Attenuation(dB): 6.4 33.5 52.1 N/A 21.1 41.8 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 7.5 6.0 5.7 N/A 12.3 12.1 N/A
Transmit Power(dBm):- 2.9 - 8.3 6.3 N/A 9.3 7.3 N/A
============================================================================
If I walk from the flat to the cabinet, it's only around 350m. I understand the cable route won't be the same as walking distance, but an extra 500m+ seems a bit much.
Do you think now that I'm banded, fastpath or G.INP will kick in eventually?
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Can you run
xdslctl info --vendor
I suspect it might be an ECI cabinet so no G.INP.
I only ever pay attention to the downstream attenuation to work out line length.
That command shows an even higher downstream attenuation.
Lines can run hundreds of metres in the wrong direction before heading to the cabinet. They can go all sorts of crazy routes.
Going with your example of flats in the same street but further from the cabinet having better estimates than your flat it's possible your line runs in the direction of these flats then heads back towards the cabinet.
If all the flats in your street have similar estimates then the line length is considerably longer than 350m, particularly with that attenuation.
That's exactly what my line does. It goes up my street in the wrong direction, then crosses the road and goes back down the other side of the street to the cabinet.
That's in a brand new development too, some legacy parts of the network are even worse.
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ZySH> xdslctl info --vendor
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 10017 Kbps, Downstream rate = 43928 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 10342 Kbps, Downstream rate = 24997 Kbps
ChipSet Vendor Id: IFTN:0xd086
ChipSet VersionNumber: 0xd086
ChipSet SerialNumber:
Definitely an ECI cabinet, but I thought they were generally enabled for G.INP (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/06/openreach-extend-g-inp-to-more-eci-fttc-broadband-lines.html) now. No matter, but I'd still like fastpath regardless.
Seems odd the cable would route to the neighbouring flats, away from the cab. That would mean it heads towards the river at the end of the row, then double back on itself back towards the road. Guess it depends of course. I doubt the OR engineer will come to the flat when I move to BT, but it'd be interesting to know what the line length actually measures.
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Definitely an ECI cabinet, but I thought they were generally enabled for G.INP (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/06/openreach-extend-g-inp-to-more-eci-fttc-broadband-lines.html) now. No matter, but I'd still like fastpath regardless.
Definitely not. Small scale trial only, and it's hit problems (again).
I haven't seen any ECI lines get G.INP since the issues raised in the article below.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/08/openreach-g-inp-trial-on-eci-fttc-broadband-lines-hits-snag.html
They've been trying (very unsuccessfully) to roll out G.INP to the ECI cabinets for about 5 years.
Something's made your line go to high Interleaving in the past.
If that's because the line has lots of errors then it might never go back to Fastpath.
Fastpath will be more likely to come after the switch to BT as it will wipe the DLM history and BT primarily use Speed DLM policy while I believe Vodafone use the Standard DLM policy.
The Speed policy allows more errors than the Standard policy before enabling/disabling Interleaving.
The switch to BT should drop the delay added by High Interleaving from 16ms to 8ms.
Hopefully followed by fastpath a few days later removing it completely..
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Ah that sucks about G.INP. Thanks for your help. Here's hoping the move to BT will change things. :fingers:
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So it's been a month since moving to BT. It started off a bit ropey - lots of reconnections, however, it's been stable for over 2 weeks now. I'm guessing the previous disconnections are what's caused the downstream SNRM to go up to 9dB. No sign of DLM reducing that yet or removing interleaving. I've also kept the BT Smart Hub 2 connected to this line. Does anyone know how to deactivate BT WiFi?
(https://i.imgur.com/Tficadl.png)
(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/ca73685da60e94ac3240ceab503d024ea3aa7c36-09-10-2020.png)
I also got a second line installed, with A&A ISP. It can acheive 40/10 at best, which I'm OK with. I connected my Zyxel XMG3927-B to this line. Again, stable now for over 2 weeks, but no sign of G.INP or Fastpath. My only concern is with the continuous upstream errors.
(https://i.imgur.com/QyKjRYh.png)
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 9229 Kbps, Downstream rate = 42738 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8535 Kbps, Downstream rate = 36477 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 5.6 6.3
Attn(dB): 20.9 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 11.2 5.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 26
B: 51 238
M: 1 1
T: 64 57
R: 12 16
S: 0.0454 0.8904
L: 11288 2291
D: 713 1
I: 64 255
N: 64 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 448840400 103094165
OHFErr: 1731 3749
RS: 3233905859 1580601140
RSCorr: 7524497 8233
RSUnCorr: 100032 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 21993 0
OCD: 22 0
LCD: 22 0
Total Cells: 1562443030 0
Data Cells: 128097625 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 342 19515
SES: 0 126
UAS: 86 2438118
AS: 1308008
Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 0
PER: 2.91 12.73
OR: 65.88 20.09
AgR: 36543.25 8555.58
Bitswap: 23025/24027 472/472
Total time = 15 days 3 hours 21 min 34 sec
FEC: 7524497 8233
CRC: 1731 3749
ES: 342 19515
SES: 0 126
UAS: 86 2438118
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 1
FailedFastRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 6 min 34 sec
FEC: 1075 1
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 8266 2
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FastRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
FailedFastRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 3 hours 21 min 34 sec
FEC: 99134 76
CRC: 16 34
ES: 4 34
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 522513 493
CRC: 135 241
ES: 18 230
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Since Link time = 15 days 3 hours 20 min 7 sec
FEC: 7524497 8233
CRC: 1731 3749
ES: 342 19515
SES: 0 126
UAS: 0 2438032
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
ZySH>
(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/9e9dd863bab5f624f70768e64dfc271839979964-09-10-2020.png)
Any expert input much appreciated!
-
The 9dB SNRM is because BT have put you on a 40/10 profile, capping the line at a maximum 40Mb sync.
What package did you order? If it's Fibre 1 then you should get them to change you to 55Mb.
They usually put people on the 40Mb profile if their estimates suggest they won't get higher but your line will clearly sync higher.
The BT mods on their forums are best place to arrange this. Phone support can be useless.
-
Hi a very belated welcome!
And another AA user here. You were talking about your upstream errors? What I’m about to tell you may be completely wrong because I don’t have FTTC/VDSL2, only mere ADSL2. Are you familiar with AA’s control and status info web server traditional gently humorous name https://clueless.aa.net.uk, modern dignified name https://control.aa.net.uk ? On that website I can go down to the settings for a particular DSL line and select upstream SNRM 6dB or 9dB - see https://support.aa.net.uk/BT_ADSL_Line_Profiles - this may well not be the same for FTTC. I have set one of my troublesome lines to have an upstream SNRM of 9 dB instead of 6 dB.
-
There's zero DLM line settings in clueless for FTTC.
The FTTC DLM is entirely hands off and automated.
The upstream is a fixed 6dB target on an lines.
The downstream target can't be manually adjusted by the user or ISP.
A few modems can override the DLMs target.
The only thing an ISP can do is ask for the DLM to be reset, which would achieve nothing here.
The line has such a high SNRM because it is capped well below its potential.
It needs OpenReach changing the underlying product.
-
Ref BT WiFi, the only way to switch it off on a HomeHub is to opt out of it altogether - https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/how-do-i-opt-out-of-bt-wi-fi-
I actually find it quite useful at times when out and about as my phone picks it up in all sorts of places. If you are worried about speed loss then I believe that your personal use is prioritised so you shouldn't notice much if any difference by leaving it on.
The other way to stop it being broadcast is to use a non BT router of course.
:)
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Thanks J0hn. As I pointed out, I was aware of the possibility that things might be different with FTTC.
I have never even seen FTTC, I have to admit. The first FTTC cabs around here were, what, a couple of years ago.
-
New update. I left things alone to see what would happen. My A&A line, after being up and stable for 28 days, had 11000 ES yesterday and DLM this morning has applied a higher interleave depth and now I have a delay of 16ms.
(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/f45ab8e88ee820bd08b8bbb2684dbb117369aba8-24-10-2020.png)
xdslctl info --webstats
============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 1 hour: 45 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 8.735 Mbps 38.211 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 8.715 Mbps 38.149 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.0 dB 6.3 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 16 ms
Transmit Power: 5.9 dBm 11.5 dBm
Receive Power: -8.8 dBm -11.5 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 4.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 14.8 dB 23.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 8.834 Mbps 42.306 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 6.3 34.7 53.7 N/A 15.5 43.2 67.8
Signal Attenuation(dB): 6.2 34.5 52.9 N/A 21.1 42.9 N/A
SNR Margin(dB): 7.6 6.0 6.0 N/A 6.3 6.2 N/A
Transmit Power(dBm):- 2.7 - 7.2 5.1 N/A 9.5 7.4 N/A
============================================================================
VDSL Counters
Downstream Upstream
Since Link time = 45 min 59 sec
FEC: 17744 28
CRC: 0 15
ES: 0 22628
SES: 0 128
UAS: 0 2438069
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 52 sec
FEC: 1524 1
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 4586 1
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
HostInitRetr: N/A
FastRetr: N/A
FailedRetr: N/A
FailedFastRetr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 22 hours 42 min 52 sec
FEC: 18244557 401
CRC: 60223 210
ES: 11177 22805
SES: 12 130
UAS: 40 2438099
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 1 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 1
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 9338791 501
CRC: 24892 266
ES: 5900 243
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 0
FailedFastRetr: 0
Total time = 1 days 22 hours 42 min 52 sec
FEC: 41562563 14399
CRC: 88654 7001
ES: 17761 45242
SES: 12 256
UAS: 126 4876217
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 1 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 1
HostInitRetr: 0
FastRetr: 0
FailedRetr: 1
FailedFastRetr: 0
============================================================================
My BT line, after my previous post was up and stable for 12 days. Late last night though, I replaced the Smart Hub 2 with a Zyxel VMG8924-B10A. I kept the line down for 30 minutes so as not to disrupt the DLM process, however, this morning this line also resynced with an interleave delay of 14ms!
(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/07b12f88178be51e2e22e8cf28b3d0df6ffab9df-24-10-2020.png)
> xdslctl info --webstats
====================================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
G.Vector: Disable
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 2 hours: 9 minutes
====================================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 8.649 Mbps 40.141 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 8.629 Mbps 40.000 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.2 dB 8.7 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 14 ms
Transmit Power: 6.9 dBm 12.5 dBm
Receive Power: -10.5 dBm -11.3 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 8.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 0.0 dB 20.6 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 8.906 Mbps 63.501 Mbps
====================================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 7.5 33.3 51.3 N/A N/A 15.2 40.6 63.6
Signal Attenuation(dB): 7.2 33.1 51.1 N/A N/A 21.0 40.3 63.9
SNR Margin(dB): 8.6 6.0 6.2 N/A N/A 8.7 8.7 8.7
TX Power(dBm): -3.4 -8.8 6.3 N/A N/A 9.6 7.3 5.8
====================================================================================
VDSL Counters
Downstream Upstream
Since Link time = 9 min 57 sec
FEC: 54485 3
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 2214
SES: 0 15
UAS: 0 17429
LOS: 0 2
LOF: 0 2
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 36 sec
FEC: 3133 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 5239 2
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 10 hours 38 min 36 sec
FEC: 198060 28
CRC: 3742 6
ES: 18 4428
SES: 10 30
UAS: 1903 36718
LOS: 1 4
LOF: 7 4
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Total time = 10 hours 38 min 36 sec
FEC: 198060 28
CRC: 3742 6
ES: 18 4428
SES: 10 30
UAS: 1903 36718
LOS: 1 4
LOF: 7 4
LOM: 0 0
====================================================================================
As sad as it sounds (there's worse things in life to worry about), I'm still pretty dejected at this outcome. The A&A line in particular was provided exclusively so I could game (semi-professionally), so this further interleave is the worst thing. Short of moving house, what can I do?
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I have not seen any dedicated gaming isp's since the demise of BE, however I came across this isp recently https://www.leetline.co.uk maybe worth looking into :fingers:
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I have not seen any dedicated gaming isp's since the demise of BE, however I came across this isp recently https://www.leetline.co.uk maybe worth looking into :fingers:
Whatever issue is causing the DLM to make changes, switching ISP is not going to be the solution as the DLM is going still going to intervene. That's on the presumption you are suggesting it as a solution which wouldn't work because the latency is from the DLM's parameters, so please don't take my comment the wrong way.
As sad as it sounds (there's worse things in life to worry about), I'm still pretty dejected at this outcome. The A&A line in particular was provided exclusively so I could game (semi-professionally), so this further interleave is the worst thing. Short of moving house, what can I do?
If I am not mistaken, it looks like one line has a large amount of ES on the upstream and the other on both the downstream and upstream? It looks like your connections are deemed too unstable by the DLM for fastpath.
Do you have any historical data from before? For example, months following the time of install?
When scanning through, I didn't see any mention of an engineer coming out to test the line. I didn't see any mention of ISPs running remote tests, either. Have you asked your ISP(s) to run remote tests? If not, request those tests and see whether an engineer visit is advisable. Obviously take note of the applicable costs of a visit if there is a problem in your property (such as with the mastersocket, filters, etc.).
As for the solution, I don't know. If there is a fault then hopefully an engineer can resolve it. If you're really concerned about latency, you could look at a leased line (which can cost hundreds of £ per month... but I don't know how that works if you live in a flat), see if there are alternative suppliers for fibre, or look at FTTPoD or Openreach Community Fibre Partnerships (though the latter two are expensive and I have no idea how that works in Multi-Dwelling Units (MDUs) like flats).
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so please don't take my comment the wrong way.
None taken.. only if they were looking for more specialised isp
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Do you have any historical data from before? For example, months following the time of install?
No, the two Zyxel's are recent purchases, so I've nothing from before. Plus, I only moved to BT on 20 September, and the A&A line was installed a week later.
When scanning through, I didn't see any mention of an engineer coming out to test the line. I didn't see any mention of ISPs running remote tests, either. Have you asked your ISP(s) to run remote tests? If not, request those tests and see whether an engineer visit is advisable. Obviously take note of the applicable costs of a visit if there is a problem in your property (such as with the mastersocket, filters, etc.).
I had engineers out shortly after the A&A line installation. Would have loved it to be a shiny new copper pair run into the flat, but they used an exisiting unused pair so I'm not sure of the pair quality. Anyway, they had to come out because I had no service whatsoever. They found it had been misjumpered at the PCP.
Around the same time, the BT line was dropping out, so a separate engineer visit for that happened, however, this guy was a PSTN engineer rather than broadband. He found a loose termination in the wiring closet but apart from that it was testing OK.
As for the solution, I don't know. If there is a fault then hopefully an engineer can resolve it. If you're really concerned about latency, you could look at a leased line (which can cost hundreds of £ per month... but I don't know how that works if you live in a flat), see if there are alternative suppliers for fibre, or look at FTTPoD or Openreach Community Fibre Partnerships (though the latter two are expensive and I have no idea how that works in Multi-Dwelling Units (MDUs) like flats).
Unfortunately I don't see any of those options working. I managed to get Virgin Media on board to cable our flats but when it came to signing the wayleave to allow them to, one neighbour (out of 50 flats) put a stop to the whole thing. I asked our building factor to ask them to reconsider, but they firmly denied. So that, to me, means it doesn't matter which provider I go to, I have a difficult neighbour who will block it. Virgin Media are in every street nearby (our flats were built after CableTel had cabled the area in the 90s) so I'm surprised our BT cabinet is busy.
My exchange was on the list for Openreach FTTP upgrade earlier this year but was pulled in April "due to unforseen operational obstacles" so that looks like it's years away.
CityFibre are close by, but they're not doing our area for FTTP yet.
I will be on VDSL for some time yet.
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My exchange was on the list for Openreach FTTP upgrade earlier this year but was pulled in April "due to unforseen operational obstacles" so that looks like it's years away.
CityFibre are close by, but they're not doing our area for FTTP yet.
My exchange was delayed also which I found out was power needing a complete overhaul in the exchange. It seems to now be back on after a years delay (assuming the altest Fibre First site update is accurate) which is a relief, as they initially said it would be a TWO year delay to start installation.
I'm a little confused why one person in a block of flats can prevent the wayleave, surely its 100% up to the building management?
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I'm a little confused why one person in a block of flats can prevent the wayleave, surely its 100% up to the building management?
In Scotland, the building factors act on behalf of the homeowners. They would have signed the wayleave on our behalf had there been no objections. I agree, it's mad that one person can deny a service for everyone, but it seems to be the way. The thing with VM is, they would pre-wire the flats at no cost to anyone, and they wouldn't need into each individual flat unless that flat was taking the service, so I'm really not sure what their issue is. I can't even speak to them because data protection prevents the factor from telling me who it was.
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Bit of a bummer that one person objecting against something that probably wouldn't hinder them during the installation to the flats can stop something that could benefit everybody. On the surface it seems very selfish of them, and I do not know what legal measures you can take. :(
Really, I have only few suggestions:
- Raise faults and see what the diagnostics say. If an engineer visit is advised then you could at least consider it.
- You could switch your gaming line to ADSL2+ to a provider that allows control over the profiles.
- You could limit your sync rate using xdslcmd via CLI to reduce errors and hopefully get the DLM to adjust the profile, which is described here (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16427.0.html).
If you consider 2, obviously you could lose a large chunk of your speed depending on your distance to the exchange - especially the upstream. Thankfully, games that are not hosted on your network or use P2P shouldn't require more upstream than ADSL2+ can provide (most lines sit around 0.9-1.3 Mbps upstream - if you are close the exchange you could consider Annex M for somewhere up to 2.5 Mbps if you're willing to pay more). You could use your other line for updates and installs, but this may be a bit of a hassle.
If you consider 3, messing with the DLM is not a good idea and even doing so is not guaranteed to get you fastpath back. Furthermore, it is reported that the values set by the user do not stick after a reboot or powering off the device.
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I've gone for option 3 and a DLM reset. I spoke to the support guys at A&A. They did all they could but with it being FTTC, they have no control over the profiles as you said. So instead they've asked Openreach to do a DLM reset. I've also capped my Zyxel to 24/8 in an attempt to stabilise it further. Time to wait and monitor it for a few weeks.
I'm not so fussed about the BT line not being on fastpath. We use that for general use, downloading, streaming etc, so I'm not going to touch that line again.
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(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/34508bcb20889d442ec0fcc2989b990743c2b4c5-26-10-2020.png)
DLM reset occurred just before 2am today. Back down to 8ms interleave delay, capped myself at 24/8, no CRCs on the downstream, FECs in the low hundreds per 15mins. I don't think I can make this line any more green than that.
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Well, well, well. I cannot say I expected things to move this quickly...
(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/68c00b56925b247d2049b1119861310f5486835d-27-10-2020.png)
DSLAM type / SW version: IFTN:0xd086 (208.134) / v0xd086
Modem/router firmware: AnnexA version - A2pvfbH043q.d26u
DSL mode: VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status: Showtime
Uptime: 0 hour 28 min 21 sec
Resyncs: 1 (since 26 Oct 2020 01:47:10)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 20.8 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 23984 7998
SNR margin (dB): 13.3 6.3
Power (dBm): 11.4 5.7
Interleave depth: 1 1
INP: 0 0
G.INP: Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status: 5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)
RSCorr/RS (%): N/A 0.0001
RSUnCorr/RS (%): N/A 0.0000
ES/hour: 2.11 2335
Interleaving is OFF!
(Although not sure what the 13db SNRM means for me)
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You have a high SNRM because you have capped your speed, so you have spare noise margin. If the cap was removed your sync speed would increase, what this would do to your error rates is hard to say.
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ES/hour: 2.11 2335Uhh? Could you post the full stats?
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ES/hour: 2.11 2335Uhh? Could you post the full stats?
My full stats are here (http://81.187.84.163:55555/combined.html)
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I wonder if the high amount of reported ES is a bug? Error rates for 15 minute intervals seem ok, but for any greater period of time the upstream seems hard hit. Not seeing such ES on the graph - do you have it limited to 20?
Seems your connection got knocked offline a little after 11:55 - SHINE? Might be worth taking a look at this (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm).