Kitz Forum
Chat => Chit Chat => Topic started by: sevenlayermuddle on July 21, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
-
Other half caught me composing an email ordering some stuff, listed in columns...
2 off <a thing>
5 off <another thing>
3 off ...etc
She challenged me, it should be "of" not "off". :o
I have always used "2 off", etc when composing parts lists such as that. I'm pretty sure my old English teacher once taught me that, whilst counter intuitive, "off" is correct in that very specific context. But after resorting to Google, I'm finding only limited evidence to support my usage. :-[
Would anybody wish to take sides in this domestic dispute?
-
I certainly agree with you that 'off' is common (even normal) usage. But perhaps, more normal syntax is:
widgets: 5 off
rather than
5 off widgets?
PS: I certainly wouldn't say "5 of widgets". That makes no sense; the 'of' is redundant.
-
I was about to jump in with both feet siting the fictional character in Star Trek: Voyager: 7 of 9 as being definitive proof, but knowing the Forum thought I'd better check. The dictionary on my Mac states:
mainly British (with preceding numeral) denoting a quantity produced at one time
so looks like both are acceptable.
-
Never heard it being used that way. After all, its "2 of a kind" not "2 off a kind".
I certainly agree with you that 'off' is common (even normal) usage. But perhaps, more normal syntax is:
widgets: 5 off
rather than
5 off widgets?
PS: I certainly wouldn't say "5 of widgets". That makes no sense; the 'of' is redundant.
Surely you'd say "5 widgets", as like you say any more words are redundant.
-
I was about to jump in with both feet siting the fictional character in Star Trek: Voyager: 7 of 9 as being definitive proof, but knowing the Forum thought I'd better check. The dictionary on my Mac states: so looks like both are acceptable.
I was sitting at my Mac when composing the original email, didn’t know it could do that. :-[
I would be interested to hear more on the Star Trek suggestion, it means nothing to me.
I certainly agree with you that 'off' is common (even normal) usage. But perhaps, more normal syntax is:
widgets: 5 off
rather than
5 off widgets?
PS: I certainly wouldn't say "5 of widgets". That makes no sense; the 'of' is redundant.
Yes you’re right, transposing the columns is probably better syntax. Maybe that is what I was taught, but only partly remembered.
Never heard it being used that way. After all, its "2 of a kind" not "2 off a kind".
Surely you'd say "5 widgets", as like you say any more words are redundant.
In the context I formed the habit as a youth, I’d probably have been ordering electronic components, with a description that is quite long winded and already includes numbers. For example,
4 off 27k 1/4W resistor.
The ‘off’ is a useful separator. But I’m now thinking it is also likely that I would actually have used Eric’s syntax. I have no evidence however, and no old copies of communications. In those days, such letters were simply written in my neatest teenage handwriting, keeping at most just a messy carbon copy that was soon discarded.
Other comments still welcome, but I currently feel no need to back down in my domestic dispute. ::)
Ps: It did occur to me to compare it to the phrase describing a unique event as a “one-off”?
-
I rather think that the use of 'off' in this context probably originated long ago in parts lists on engineering drawings. In that context it was formal usage, whereas "5 widgets" is what we would say in conversation or informal prose.
-
I would be interested to hear more on the Star Trek suggestion, it means nothing to me.
Briefly, 7 of 9 was a nameless member of a small group within an enormous predatory organisation. (She just happened to be very sexy too, but that's television for you). So the numbers were identity numbers, not quantities.
-
Briefly, 7 of 9 was a nameless member of a small group within an enormous predatory organisation. (She just happened to be very sexy too, but that's television for you). So the numbers were identity numbers, not quantities.
Both really, as she WAS 7th out of 9 in her unit.
This whole alternative use of off (you see there) just makes no sense to me as off in that context would be to mean subtraction surely?
-
Both really, as she WAS 7th out of 9 in her unit.
This whole alternative use of off (you see there) just makes no sense to me as off in that context would be to mean subtraction surely?
A possible origin of the phrase, I have discovered, is to refer to a number of items being consumed, and correspondingly being removed from an inventory which needs to reflect the removal. As in an abbreviation for '5 off the shelf' which maybe makes more sense?
Briefly, 7 of 9 was a nameless member of a small group within an enormous predatory organisation. (She just happened to be very sexy too, but that's television for you). So the numbers were identity numbers, not quantities.
Thanks, I have clearly led a sheltered life.
-
A possible origin of the phrase, I have discovered, is to refer to a number of items being consumed, and correspondingly being removed from an inventory which needs to reflect the removal. As in an abbreviation for '5 off the shelf' which maybe makes more sense?
Thanks, I have clearly led a sheltered life.
In that context yes, makes perfect sense.
-
The columns on my spreadsheet for pricing up jobs.
Part no, Description, No Off, Price each,Line total
Everyone else in the office think I am incorrect in using "Off"
Ian
-
:)
-
I was sitting at my Mac when composing the original email, didn’t know it could do that. :-[
I would be interested to hear more on the Star Trek suggestion, it means nothing to me.
Using my Magic Trackpad, cursor placed over the word of interest, a deep press invokes the definition/dictionary/thesaurus.
Apologies for assuming we are all Star Trek fans. :-[ Reference to 7 of 9 here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_of_Nine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_of_Nine)
I’m currently rewatching the entire Voyager series on Netflix, Captain Janeway was a particular “favourite” of mine when the series first aired many years ago! ;)
-
I always thought it was 'of' :-[
as in 5 of this and 6 of that.
But then again you have one off events.
-
Hi
I’m tired but briefly reading this thread
To me it’s simple
I would use 2 of carrots and turn the light off
Many thanks
John
-
This just occurred to me. I assume we all know the significance of...
Pieces of eight, pieces of eight, pieces of seven, pieces of eight?
Pedants may prefer “pieces of nine” as the exception, rather than seven, but above is how my generation was taught.
-
AFAICR 'off' is usually used when, say, ordering a list of parts by phone eg
Widgets 20 off, Wotsits 15 off etc to make it clear that these are quantities.
Similar to writing a spec and saying eg "...there shall be 6 (No) wotsits provided on this contract."
-
I've been searching online, found a few other random forums discussing this same thing phenomenon. And just as here, some correspondents supporting 'off' with a number, others disbelieving.
I've also been checking online dictionaries, quite hard to find anything at all. But at last, I see it's in this Collins edition...
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/off
16. business
(used with a preceding number) indicating the number of items required or produced
please supply 100 off
-
Off
When I used to order components it was always 'off'
It was used in Engineering drawings a lot as well
eg
Parts list
Screws
6BA = 50 off
4BA = 200 off.
2BA = 10 off
etc.
-
BA screws bring back memories for a long time ago :P